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Upside Down K !?

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pyr3x

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
36
Location
East Coast, USA
So I've been trying to figure out a mystery for the past year...

At first we were getting Ketamine Hydrochloride (pure, not from a vile!) - I tested it with my kit and it turned a perfect brown.

Then from the same individual, we started getting "K" - but the consistency was different. I felt like the sedative properties were gone, and it seemed to be slightly stimulating instead. To my knowledge, it was impossible to obtain a K hole with this new mystery K, but most everyone said that it felt just like K. I finally tested it on the kit and no reaction was present! The biggest mystery is that the chemical was MOIST. When dried, after a few hours, it would absorb moisture from the air and become damp again.

This new stuff was AMAZING. I loved it more than K and gained a lot of experience and control over my trip and insight into my own mind with this substance and became fascinated with it. I had lovingly dubbed it "Upside Down K" or "Un K" - i wanted to make it clear to everyone that it was K, but not quite... and they should proceed with caution.

My good friend told me that K binds well to Amphetamines and possibly this is an explanation for this chemical? But I haven't found any documentation to back this up.


Then it changed AGAIN, and we started receiving a dry "K" that was EXTREMELY psychedelic, and MUCH MUCH more potent. Also, not a sedative. I only tried this stuff once... I dubbed it "Double Upside Down K". I don't ever expect to figure this one out, especially since I only personally did it maybe 3 times max in very very small doses. Unless there is something that makes sense as far as, changing the Upside down K so that it is no longer moist and resulting in a more psychedelic and potent variant.


Then the feds got ahold of both of the upside down k's. (And some "sass" that was also and unknown substance with no reaction on the test kits - including Mandelin - that felt very very similar to MDMA). The GC-MS (which I assume they did, I don't know what the typical procedure is) results were never released or mentioned to the defendant, but they did offer a VERY GOOD DEAL after they found out what he had wasn't what they thought it was... no jail time was served. I would guess that they didn't WANT him to know what he had was possibly LEGAL so they could prosecute him in some way... I could speak to his attorney. I haven't yet. At least not about this.


I apologize if this is in the wrong area, I've been a reader for a few years but just recently began posting.
 
The stuff that was more stimulating and impossible to hole from I would hazard a guess to be Tiletamine as thats been doing the rounds lately.
 
My good friend told me that K binds well to Amphetamines and possibly this is an explanation for this chemical? But I haven't found any documentation to back this up.
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Im not sure what your mean by this.
If you're suggesting that this is a new chemical that combined the molecular structures of ketamine and amphetamine, its not.

You say the K felt like K but slightly different.
Its not unusual for differnt batches to feel different.
Its been suggested that it could be due to varying ratios of the 2 isomers. Or getting just one of the isolated isomers.

The MDMA felt like MDMA.

to me it sounds like you had a broken regent test.

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
 
Delsyd said:
Im not sure what your mean by this.
If you're suggesting that this is a new chemical that combined the molecular structures of ketamine and amphetamine, its not.

You say the K felt like K but slightly different.
Its not unusual for differnt batches to feel different.
Its been suggested that it could be due to varying ratios of the 2 isomers. Or getting just one of the isolated isomers.

The MDMA felt like MDMA.

to me it sounds like you had a broken regent test.

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
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I think he was talking about "base" amphetamine in the UK which is often moist, suggesting the Ketamine was cut with base, causing it to be slightly moist itself. This wouldn't make much sense though, it's likely you've just been getting the different isomers of Ketamine.
 
As already said there are two different isomers of K, one is said to be more psychedelic than the other.
 
Jamshyd said:
^ Why would anyone want to cut Ketamine with a drug that's more rare and more expensive??
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it could happen. :) dealers are silly sometimes, as are the people they sell to.

suppose a ketamine dealer purchased a large amount of pcp thinking that it would sell well. also suppose that most of his customers turn out to be averse to the idea of doing "angel dust," due to the fact that they aren't as well-informed in drug science as us bluelighters. rather than try to inform all of his customers about how pcp was demonized "back in the day" and is not really much worse than ketamine, the easiest solution would just be to mix it up with some K and sell it as "a different batch of K."

the odds of that scenario could be pretty slim. but i think it could happen.
 
stereoisomers

This is pretty much the answer for anything related to different effects from different batches of k. Can't really explain the lack of reagent reaction unless it only detects one stereoisomer versus the other.

http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=2804

The two enantiomers of ketamine, R-ketamine and S-ketamine will have different levels of effect. It is often the case that one stereoisomer is much more active than the other, as it fits into the site of action correctly while the other is poking off the wrong way. In the case of ketamine, it has been found that the S(+) isomer is more active than the R(-) isomer. The S(+) isomer is more potent at some of the opiate and NMDA receptors and the R(-) isomer may have more effect on the heart, for instance. Drugs are often manufactured as a mixture of these isomers, as it can be very difficult to isolate one preferentially, because they are nearly identical. Thus different synthetic routes can lead to different mixtures of the final enantiomers, and will give different qualitative effects due to more or less of the more active compound in the mixture.
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It has been said that one is more psychedelic while the other is more dopey and anesthetic.

The obvious other explanation is presence of other drugs, but if you're pretty sure of its purity, the above should shed some light on the matter.

Most brands of ketamine contain the same proportions of S(+) and R(-) stereoisomers (racemic ketamine), however, at least one brand has been found to contain only the S(+)stereoisomer. According to researchers, S(+) ketamine is more likely to suppress breathing and induce a faster loss of consciousness than R(-) ketamine.
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I know my test kits weren't too old.

Also, this stuff was home grown, and I would assume that K, being a chiral molecule and having the 2 different isomers, would contain both in the final product. It's not like the R and the S are created individually...

And also I would imagine that even if I had R(-) ketamine, it would still pop on the test kit!

As far as Tiletamine goes, none of the trip reports sound accurate.

PCP sounds like almost a better bet... but I don't know much about it. - Does anyone know what the reactions would be for PCP for all the reagents?
 
pyr3x said:
Also, this stuff was home grown, and I would assume that K, being a chiral molecule and having the 2 different isomers, would contain both in the final product. It's not like the R and the S are created individually...

And also I would imagine that even if I had R(-) ketamine, it would still pop on the test kit!
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S isomer Ketamine is pretty common.
 
pyr3x said:
Then the feds got ahold of both of the upside down k's. (And some "sass" that was also and unknown substance with no reaction on the test kits - including Mandelin - that felt very very similar to MDMA).
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As an aside to your ketamine question, the "sass" must be referring to safrole (from sassafras oil) or a derivative. That's of course a broad statement - safrole is a precursor in the synthesis of MDA and thus, MDMA, but also innumerable other compounds could use safrole in their synthesis. If I had to wager I'd guess the "sass" was MDA Or just a fresh batch of Molly but I'm pretty sure speculation on my part isn't worth anything in this case. Just Say No to silly street names for drugs!

I also agree with the above posters that your reagent(s) may have expired.

Mods feel free to edit my post if I went into too much synth detail.
 
It could be that you got different isomers but given the fact that racemic ketamine (an equal mixture of the isomers) is less rare you more probably got racemic once and an isomer the other time.

None of it, or tiletamine (AFAIK) or other substances mentioned are hygroscopic, meaning attracting moisture from the air and becoming wet over time, apart from amphetamine.

The fact that it's hygroscopic seems to prove that it couldn't (only) be a matter of different isomers and there is some kind of cut or lace present.

Ketamine does not bind to amphetamine, nor does it bind to receptors amphetamine binds to - well I think it does, but not to a significant extent. R-ketamine, one of the isomers, feels edgy to me though and it is like anti-ketamine in that it hardly causes body dissociation. It is stimulating in a weird way like I hear PCP can be - your head in the clouds and your body on earth, it accounts for the effects you describe it having.

A tight theory would be that it's R-ketamine cut with a hygroscopic chemical (how stupid), but though it makes some sense its still not likely. Then again nothing I can think of is likely, maybe someone else needs to think.
 
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