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PCP brain damage question?

KAYLA2010

Bluelighter
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May 26, 2010
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Does PCP cause damage to the cholinergic system after long term use?..............because it is a alpha-7 nicotinic receptor antagonist.

Do anyone think that maybe the reason PCP causes so many long term effects after long term use is because it destroys the acetylcholine production?

I know the other things it destroys but this one interests me............
 
Thank you....
(Quote from one site)
Acute anticholinergic syndrome is completely reversible and subsides once all of the toxin has been excreted. Previously, reversible cholinergic agents such as physostigmine were used but this was found to increase the risk of cardiac toxicity. The current recommended treatment is symptomatic and supportive management.

Piracetam, Alpha-GPC and Choline (and other racetams) are known to activate cholinergic system and alleviate cognitive symptoms caused by extended use of anticholinergic drugs.
 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=434486

The other thread.....If a moderator could delete this one.....My question is the same and I found answers and experiences...I am so glad i found that thread.... it didn't get deleted....

.It has answers, I was/trying to ask the same thing......The way he phrased it would help someone better understand the question to answer the question.
 
.It has answers, I was/trying to ask the same thing

...aside from discussion about cholinergics and hallucinogens, that thread has absolutely nothing to do with what you asked (not that I'm exactly sure what you were asking to begin with; not so sure that you do either).
 
(I read this about PCP.....Which led to my question about psycodelics (PCP)..There is a part in there saying Phencyclidine-((a complex clip of the chemical name phenylcyclohexylpiperidine, commonly initialized as PCP)


( This is from something I read online about toxicity from PCP )

Phencyclidine has also been shown to cause schizophrenia-like changes in the rat brain, which are detectable both in living rats and upon necropsy examination of brain tissue.[15] It also induces symptoms in humans that are virtually indistinguishable from schizophrenia
Management of phencyclidine intoxication mostly consists of supportive care — controlling breathing, circulation, and body temperature — and, in the early stages, treating psychiatric symptoms.[23][24][25] Benzodiazepines, such as lorazepam, are the drugs of choice to control agitation and seizures (when present). Typical antipsychotics such as phenothiazines and haloperidol have been used to control psychotic symptoms, but may produce many undesirable side effects — such as dystonia — and their use is therefore no longer preferred; phenothiazines are particularly risky, as they may lower the seizure threshold, worsen hyperthermia, and boost the anticholinergic effects of PCP.[23][24] If an antipsychotic is given, intramuscular haloperidol has been recommended


now do you see where i was going? I will start explaining what I am thinking and why so that anyone else like you that reads my posts will be able to understand
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic


In this one it even tells you they use choline to treat side effects caused by anticholinergic drugs.........

(quote from a site)

When a significant amount of an anticholinergic is taken into the body, a toxic reaction known as acute anticholinergic syndrome may result. This may happen accidentally or intentionally as a consequence of recreational drug use. Anticholinergic drugs are usually considered the least enjoyable by experienced recreational drug users,[citation needed] possibly due to the lack of euphoria caused by them. (For some of the recreational effects, see the article on deliriants.) Because most users do not enjoy the experience, they do not use it again, or do so very rarely. The risk of addiction is low in the anticholinergic class. The effects are usually more pronounced in the elderly, due to natural reduction of acetylcholine production associated with age.
 
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...aside from discussion about cholinergics and hallucinogens, that thread has absolutely nothing to do with what you asked (not that I'm exactly sure what you were asking to begin with; not so sure that you do either).

Did you read he meant anticholinergics??
 
pass me some of those addys


My meds have worn off...my ADD is severe....I even wrote in a post I might not make sense its late...implying my meds have worn off and I can not think straight......Now I am just so aggravated...........I could just scream right now..........I have read so much and I know what I am talking about and for someone to not understand me drives me absolutely insane....and I thought by summing things up it would be easier for someone to read but obviously I need to go into detail from now on.........


Edit: This guy and I have a few thread pertaining to the same subject........
 
^^

I thought your question was answered, someone already posted that there seems to be no permanent damage to the cholinergic system. And it seems that even if you had a lot of pcp in your system that it could be reversed by an a7 agonist.
 
I posted that it could be reversed....... But this guy did seem to think there was any way to have a deficiency of acetylcholine...and then wrote some comments in a couple of threads that lead me to obsessing over proving to him....my purpose of the question.....Then he says he just won't read what i write anymore because blah blah blah......Also wrote how he didn't understand what I was saying so.and that i probably didn't know what i was saying)which offended me............i just started trying to prove my point......I will stop know because my original question was answered your right.....

Thank you....
(Quote from one site)
Acute anticholinergic syndrome is completely reversible and subsides once all of the toxin has been excreted. Previously, reversible cholinergic agents such as physostigmine were used but this was found to increase the risk of cardiac toxicity. The current recommended treatment is symptomatic and supportive management.

Piracetam, Alpha-GPC and Choline (and other racetams) are known to activate cholinergic system and alleviate cognitive symptoms caused by extended use of anticholinergic drugs.
 
I posted that it could be reversed....... But this guy did seem to think there was any way to have a deficiency of acetylcholine...and then wrote some comments in a couple of threads that lead me to obsessing over proving to him....my purpose of the question.....Then he says he just won't read what i write anymore because blah blah blah......Also wrote how he didn't understand what I was saying so.and that i probably didn't know what i was saying)which offended me............i just started trying to prove my point......I will stop know because my original question was answered your right.....


I didn't notice it was you who responded to yourself.
 
My meds have worn off...my ADD is severe....I even wrote in a post I might not make sense its late...implying my meds have worn off and I can not think straight......Now I am just so aggravated...........I could just scream right now..........I have read so much and I know what I am talking about and for someone to not understand me drives me absolutely insane....and I thought by summing things up it would be easier for someone to read but obviously I need to go into detail from now on.........

...do you think this is a reasonable reaction to the circumstance? I don't. Relax and get some sleep, my friend, because it sounds like you're quite distressed right now.

~ vaya
 
KAYLA,

The thread you linked was referring exclusively the M1, M2, M3 muscarinic acetylcholine receptor antagonists like diphenhydramine (Benadryl, Sominex), atropine (active component of Belladonna), scoploamine (Devil's Breath), and a variety of antiparkinsonian medictions with similar pharmacologic activity. These receptors are responsible for, among many other things, initiating and maintaining higher thought processes, as evidenced by their regional distribution, with higher numbers of receptor sites in the cortex than most other regions of the brain. In lower brain regions associated with movement, muscarinic blockade liberates dopamine and potentiates its postsynaptic action, enhancing the efficacy of the antiparkinsonian meds.

However, the adverse cerebral effects of these drugs are extensive, and their use should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Some include: amnesia, working memory impairment, learning deficits, inhibition of REM sleep, and in higher doses (or susceptible individuals), delerium and psychosis.

HOWEVER, contrary to your speedy [and somewhat silly] conclusion, phencyclidine is not an anticholinergic in the conventional sense of the term, as it appears to have negligible affinity for the aforementioned receptors, binding instead to the ionotropic nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, with high selectivity for the alpha7 subtype. Selective blockade of this receptor does not result in the so-called "anticholinergic syndrome," nor are drugs that possess such an action generally referred to as "anticholinergics." That moniker is typically reserved for compounds that exhibit selective muscarinic antagonism, a quality which PCP decidedly lacks.

Also, Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder [the primary topic of the linked thread] has very little to do with what you initially asked, as it hasn't been firmly established whether anticholinergics like Benadryl can actually cause the disorder at all; nor, either, does PCP exert its hallucinogenic/neurodegenerative effects via its incidental nicotinic affinity. HPPD is a purely visual phenomenon with no relevance to what I can only guess is happening to you [from what I can gather from your scattered posts], which I suspect is a legitimate drug-induced neurologic and/or psychiatric condition. Like the previous poster said, you sound pretty fucking distraught, and this is based solely upon the odd, frenetic tone of your posts, all of which appear to be linked in some way to a presumed (impossible) "acetylcholine deficiency" that you're determined to implicate in whatever horrid time you might going through.

Just go see a doctor or something.
 
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^-- I don't need a freakin doctor.......but thank you for answering my question.....finally...


EDIT-It is freakin hilarious............I am going over all my posts and literally the entire time all I was trying to do was prove that choline deficiency was possible............makes me look like a freakin nut job...hahaha

PA- something you said just set me off.....i do not remember why tho....but you answered this question so.....

And I will check out that link again- ))remember people im here for learning(( you know what I willl just put that at the end of every single post I make...

PS- ALL the links were just for you to see what I have read before.......you can tell me where I fuck up......i really do not mind.
 
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...do you think this is a reasonable reaction to the circumstance? I don't. Relax and get some sleep, my friend, because it sounds like you're quite distressed right now.

~ vaya

LOL..I don't think it was reasonable either...
 
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