What would happen if drugs were legalised Part 1. MDMA

[MazDan]

OK so I have a lot of respect for the AusDD crowd as you always appear quite above average intelligence.

Soooooooooo

Lets get those grey cells working and ask you to consider the world in ten years time and what would happen if tomorrow MDMA production and use was made legal.

Sure there would be some good points, but would there be any downsides?

Can you see into the future?



This is Part 1 of a series I wish to put forward over the next few months to see how thoughts might change if the substance is different.

 

[sex_bomb]

great food for thought...........kevin krudd should be listening
its hard to see a bad side of mdma being made legal as iv never seen any
no aggression or rape or anything.....it would drive out organized crime for sure

marriages and relationships would last alot more so single parent rates would go down.......could even tax it so money would be made......same question should be asked with marijuana..............me's thinks

 

[PsiloSubNaut]

I'm for legalizing all drugs, coupled with the proper education of all users, not that it will happen any time soon... There is just too much money to be made by keeping drugs illegal

A downside of legalizing MDMA would be the increase in people taking Tuesdays off work lol

The police force would also have a smaller workload because there would be more hugging than fighting going on. This may lead to more bored police officers harassing people for lack of anything better to do. Wouldn't that be fun!

Our weekly pill taking population would certainly benefit from a supply of pure MDMA. Who knows what cocktail of drugs these users are ingesting on a weekly basis.

MDMA has been used and abused by millions of people worldwide with only a small percentage of bad outcomes. That is far less than what can be said for many legal drugs.

It certainly is time for change, in fact, drug law reform should have already happened

 

[Mr Blonde]

I foresee...

1) An increase in use amongst the general population.

2) Tight regulation of the substance and possibly limits on purchase amounts. I imagine it may also be sold from dispensaries so that it's distribution can be done by trained people and statistics be taken easily on usage patterns, similar to how needle supplies often ask you your age, location and drug of use.

3) Education on the dangers and risks of the substance in drug education programs would become more fact based and focus on harm minimization, as well as purchasing of it possibly requiring consultation and questions about the users' health. Probably also with the MDMA would be sold supplements and substances to minimize neurotoxicity and users would be given advice on how to use and what to do in an emergency.

4) Along with the increase in use by people, an increase in abuse of it and increased amounts of people suffering effects from over use such as depression and anxiety. Increased hospitalizations from abuse such as drinking and MDMA and being dehydrated, over hydration, hyperthermia etc... due to this, a limit may be placed on how often people can buy it.

5) A change in the night life scene as MDMA becomes more popular; less violence, an increase in people going to venues with live music and a decrease in people going to standard pubs and bars, particularly amongst young people.

6) Use of MDMA in psychotherapy will be become common, and would be used in PTSD, counselling, helping people overcome troubles in taking part in social situations, etc...

7) Increase in the amount of glow sticks and glow-related objects.

 

[drug_mentor]

I am definately for the legalisation of all drugs, including ecstasy, I think if MDMA was made legal going out would be alot more friendly as there would be less angry people on shitty pills. There would be less hospital visits if all 'ecstasy' was pure, unadulterated MDMA both through less ODs and probably less violence too.

It could potentially be very effective at helping those who suffer from PTSD and also couples with relationship problems.

I do see there being more long term heavy users who suffer effects like bad memory loss, anxiety and depression. Although there are still lots of idiots out there willing to fork out for pipes an other bullshit, the pill scene is certainly nowhere near where it once was and the low quality of everything out there makes it a pretty self limiting market. What I mean is I definately know a lot less regular pill users now than I did 2-4 years ago, people might not realise 'ecstasy' isn't what its supposed to be, but alot of the people who assume thats what MDMA is also think its plain shite. Just because they don't know it is adulterated doesn't mean they enjoy it. I mean pipes might seem OK to drug naive people at first but it can't be long before they catch on.

Because of this I think if MDMA became massively available I think it would be abused quite alot more than 'ecstasy' is in the current climate. Although it is true the "ecstasy drought" has driven some people to use 'harder' drugs there are also a decent number who have pretty much given up on chemicals all together.

 

[Busty St Clare]

There would be alot more MDMA related deaths either from serotonin syndrome , hyperthermia or cardiac arrests. The relatively few deaths today is becuase of a smaller user population. Increase the users, increase the deaths.

Shares in coca cola would increase due to higher bottle water sales while alcohol sales would be steady. Live music venues would beome non existent while APRA would demand greater fees for venues to play digital and recorded music.

Saturday night in the night club districts would be happy and relatively peaceful. Different story commuting to work Tuesdays. Depression and anxiety plus paranoia and fatigue would make interaction between people unbearable. Memory loss would also make it harder to get shit done.

Health insurance would increase for everyone. Alternatively there would be a users registry which would mean cheaper insurance policy for non users and higher fees for those known users.

Dentists weekly income would increase ten fold as more patients attend to restore worn and broken teeth, requiring more expensive full mouth rehabilitation with crowns and bridges. I would own a house in Aspen as well as a villa in Tahiti.

 

[Jordan`]

There would be alot more MDMA related deaths either from serotonin syndrome , hyperthermia or cardiac arrests. The relatively few deaths today is becuase of a smaller user population. Increase the users, increase the deaths.

Shares in coca cola would increase due to higher bottle water sales while alcohol sales would be steady. Live music venues would beome non existent while APRA would demand greater fees for venues to play digital and recorded music.

Saturday night in the night club districts would be happy and relatively peaceful. Different story commuting to work Tuesdays. Depression and anxiety plus paranoia and fatigue would make interaction between people unbearable. Memory loss would also make it harder to get shit done.

Health insurance would increase for everyone. Alternatively there would be a users registry which would mean cheaper insurance policy for non users and higher fees for those known users.

Dentists weekly income would increase ten fold as more patients attend to restore worn and broken teeth, requiring more expensive full mouth rehabilitation with crowns and bridges. I would own a house in Aspen as well as a villa in Tahiti.

Ditto. Except I'd go to Germany :D I find a lot of people focus on the short term effects of more hugging and love in general when they rarely consider the detrimental health effects at all; not to say MDMA doesn't have any positive health effects.

 

[L3inad]

There would be alot more MDMA related deaths either from serotonin syndrome , hyperthermia or cardiac arrests. The relatively few deaths today is becuase of a smaller user population. Increase the users, increase the deaths.

Shares in coca cola would increase due to higher bottle water sales while alcohol sales would be steady. Live music venues would beome non existent while APRA would demand greater fees for venues to play digital and recorded music.

Saturday night in the night club districts would be happy and relatively peaceful. Different story commuting to work Tuesdays. Depression and anxiety plus paranoia and fatigue would make interaction between people unbearable. Memory loss would also make it harder to get shit done.

Health insurance would increase for everyone. Alternatively there would be a users registry which would mean cheaper insurance policy for non users and higher fees for those known users.

Dentists weekly income would increase ten fold as more patients attend to restore worn and broken teeth, requiring more expensive full mouth rehabilitation with crowns and bridges. I would own a house in Aspen as well as a villa in Tahiti.

I disagree with most of those points. In country's that have decriminalised drugs such as MDMA, there was absoloutely no evidence to support an increase in usage. In fact, didnt potregual (spelling?) actual note a decrease in substance use/abuse and all but a complete lack of drug tourism?

Cases of seretonin syndrome would decrease, as we would have a known chemical at a known dose and not the random chemical cocktail they put in pills these days which can often include multiple seretonigenic drugs which often result in seretonin syndrome. If people know what they're taking and they are educated on it (as you would assume would happen as part of legilisation) they would know not to mix with other seretonin active drugs. MDMA alone is very unlikely to cause seretonin syndrome, the doses you'd have to take to acheive it would in no way be enjoyable, hence whats the point?

There would definately not be an increase in deaths, that just ridiculous to even put forward. There would be a VERY notable decrease in hospital admissions due to ectasty use due to the relative safe manner of MDMA and having it in its unadulterated form.

There wouldnt be any more scatter brains getting about then there already is, anyone who wants to do that to themself can do it easily without legilisation and theres nothing to suggest that it would change anything.

Why the hell would health insurance go up? Its obvious to anyone with half a brain that MDMA causes less long term damage that could result in claims being made than that of acohol which is already legal and known to be very rough on the body and results in many many many hospitalisations and diseases, where as after MDMA has worn off your left with pretty much no physical harm simply a depleted level of seretonin which returns to normal in a matter of weeks.

Dentists well.. maybe. But like I noted earlier, theres nothing to suggest there would be an increase of usage (or irresponsible usage) that could cause an increase in dental work required.

 

[Jordan`]

We're talking about legalising not decriminalising. Usage would certainly increase with the guaranteed availability of the drug.

You're other points especially concerning serotonin syndrome do have it's merits. I'm not too familiar with the statistics on poly-drug use but as you said only high doses of MDMA alone will produce serotonin syndrome like effects compared to lower doses of multiple serotonergic drugs.

 

[chugs]

Can you see into the future?

only when i'm on MDMA http://i.bluelight.ru/pi/12.gif

what would happen if tomorrow MDMA production and use was made legal. Sure there would be some good points, but would there be any downsides?

Its all subject who manufactured the drug and how it was distributed.

If its regulatory scheme was akin akin to that of how alcohol is current produced, distributed and marketed I could envision far reaching detrimental consequences of a population sold MDMA as if it was a "cock sucking cowboy".

Namely those surrounding overdose, and short term psychosis caused by insomnia. I could see a far greater insistence of allergic reactions as a much greater portion of the population used it.

Definitely see problems surrounding the semi-regulated and easy availability of MDMA i.e. addiction. I don't doubt that MDMA has the risk of excerbating the conditions of those who are currently mentally ill, and that in the wrong environment an individual could easily become addicted and suffer from the wrong practice of such a powerful substance.

As is the case with alcohol.

If however the regulatory system required the government to produce and distribute, requiring punters to submit to a GP an application for a dose or couple, like how women have to go to a GP to get the Pill then i see many of the aforementioned consequences being mitigated to an extent that I could easily accept the legalisation of MDMA.

Onto the postives that either scheme would bring.

1. a massive reduction in violence
2. better music (oh fuck yeah).
3. a massive reduction in dickheads (conversely though replaced by etards)
4. on a serious note a major reduction in the impact alcohol ( or insert any other drug of denial here) has on our society as hundreds of thousands of people try MDMA and become enlightened and experience empathy.
5. a radical change in how our society percieves and interacts with each other. I envision massive change in our families as individuals, embolden by MDMA speak out about the pain and misery circumstances and trauma have inflicted on them (but with empathy and understanding). It would be massive.
6. reduction in racism and other forms of bigotry
7. less anger and misery

 

[MilliVanilli]

Forbes magazine would list the CEO of Wrigleys as one of the worlds richest men.

I could see it's medicinal uses being quite beneficial. Given the unbelievable success that MDMA has had with people suffering PTSD and other anxiety related illnesses, I can see these people having a real chance at curing their disorders.

Melbourne CBD violence may slightly decrease. Certainly fights within clubs playing EDM would become less frequent.

I can see an increase in users definitely. A lot of the time people choose to not take drugs is the legality factor surrounding the particular drug and the stigma that comes with taking it. You make it legal, you eliminate the stigma and people will become far less reluctant to try it.

In regards to deaths and hospitalizations, I can certainly see an increase due to a greater number of people taking it, but also a decrease in terms no adulteration to said drug.

Overall, I can see this as being a success. Not to say that making it legal will be all pros and no cons, but certainly a lot healthier to society than what is currently going on.

 

[Mr Blonde]

I disagree with most of those points. In country's that have decriminalised drugs such as MDMA, there was absoloutely no evidence to support an increase in usage. In fact, didnt potregual (spelling?) actual note a decrease in substance use/abuse and all but a complete lack of drug tourism?

Decriminalization is not the same as making something completely legal and much more available then it already is. And didn't Amsterdam experience a lot of drug tourism as a result of their laws AND increased availability?

Cases of seretonin syndrome would decrease, as we would have a known chemical at a known dose and not the random chemical cocktail they put in pills these days which can often include multiple seretonigenic drugs which often result in seretonin syndrome. If people know what they're taking and they are educated on it (as you would assume would happen as part of legilisation) they would know not to mix with other seretonin active drugs. MDMA alone is very unlikely to cause seretonin syndrome, the doses you'd have to take to acheive it would in no way be enjoyable, hence whats the point?

I agree with you here as I believe from information I have read that serotonin syndrome with MDMA by itself is not that common, however people may combine it with other drugs as they are sometimes prone to do despite education and this may cause problems.

There would definately not be an increase in deaths, that just ridiculous to even put forward. There would be a VERY notable decrease in hospital admissions due to ectasty use due to the relative safe manner of MDMA and having it in its unadulterated form.

If there was an increase in usage I could see an increase in deaths, but I don't think by a great number; MDMA is relatively safe and as long as people are well aware of dosage and cautioned then there shouldn't be a dramatic jump. I'm kinda on the fence about this one actually.

There wouldnt be any more scatter brains getting about then there already is, anyone who wants to do that to themself can do it easily without legilisation and theres nothing to suggest that it would change anything.

With increased availability and more people using it, why wouldn't there be more issues of anxiety and depression due to use? People who may not have used it when it was illegal may probably try it and/or become regular users if it is legal and easier to get. This is the same reason why deaths and hospital admissions may also increase.

Why the hell would health insurance go up? Its obvious to anyone with half a brain that MDMA causes less long term damage that could result in claims being made than that of acohol which is already legal and known to be very rough on the body and results in many many many hospitalisations and diseases, where as after MDMA has worn off your left with pretty much no physical harm simply a depleted level of seretonin which returns to normal in a matter of weeks.

Even if it was legal there would still be a stigma and myths attached to it in the public perception. Insurance companies would definitely be interested in knowing if the use of this drug, which is a risk factor, is present in their clients. Besides, it's not as if MDMA is completely physically harmless. I agree it's probably not as bad as alcohol but people's perception of it is not going to change overnight.

Dentists well.. maybe. But like I noted earlier, theres nothing to suggest there would be an increase of usage (or irresponsible usage) that could cause an increase in dental work required.

Complete legality and increased availability would lead to increased use, as I have already stated. If people can get it easier and it's sanctioned by the government they are more likely to want to try it and become regular users maybe.

 

[C_Tripper]

I think Mr Blondes post is on the mark.

I believe that an increase in use would be seen, along with an increase in abuse, unfortunately. I've come to the conclusion that most people are stupid

Perhaps a larger strain on the health department would be seen?

I'd like to see it available for sale on in 18+ areas, such as nightclubs.

 

[L3inad]

Decriminalization is not the same as making something completely legal and much more available then it already is. And didn't Amsterdam experience a lot of drug tourism as a result of their laws AND increased availability?

I was reffering to portregual, not holland. And I wasnt talking about availability I was talking about the amount of users, which I remember actually decreasing in portregual and remaining stable in holland.

I am aware that we are talking about legalisation here and not decriminalisation, but as no country has put formward legalisation the closest thing we have to make predictions based on is decrimilisation.
Its all well and good to speculate what MIGHT happen, but everything everyone has put forward so far is simply that, speculation.
Im trying to provide actual factual information that we can make educated assumptions based on, not pure speculation.
We cant be sure what would happen, the point im trying to get across by using decrimilisation as an example, is that theres no reason to suggest there would be an increase in use. availability yes, but usage is not directly linked to how easy it is to get although it does play a part.

What im trying to stress, is that (minus this horrible drought) anyone who wants to use MDMA can with relative ease, and that an increase in availability would not directly correspond to an increase in users based on the assumtion that whoever wants to use it is already using it because well put simply, in normal circumstances its not hard to come by...

Speculate all you want, but I'd suggest looking into actual facts on how decrimilisation has affected things before making outlandish claims on legalisation I would love to link everyone, but I'm in study mode and really shouldnt be on bl lol

 

[Bent Mk2]

The police force would also have a smaller workload because there would be more hugging than fighting going on.

Extremely true. I used to be heavily involved in running a lot of large scale events, and as such had a very close working relationship with a lot of police over the years.

Whilst they'd never admit it on record, in the chats we used to have about what's happening around town, who's causing problems, which clubs are causing headaches, etc, they ALWAYS said they'd absolutely prefer kids where all on decent pills than booze or anything else as nothing ever happens.

Hell look at most big events 5+ years ago, you'd see a few cops walking around in threes and fours, joking around and having a ball, because there were no crowd issues.

The hardest working mob were St Johns, and even then the number of issues only seemed to increase immensely with the prevalence of other drugs.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Are you saying that following the end of prohibition in the states that alcohol consumption went down?

Health insurance premiums are higher for alcoholics and smokers. Fact. Not using MDMA is healthier than using. I'm not denying when used wisely mdma is relatively safe but it still increases risk of depression, anxiety and also puts an added strain on your cardiovascular system (ever noticed how your heart races and you get the sweats?). Young fit Australians won't be the only ones gobbling pills if it was legalised unless you are going to put an age restriction on it you will see the odd baby boomer end up in hospital.

 

[L3inad]

Are you saying that following the end of prohibition in the states that alcohol consumption went down?

Health insurance premiums are higher for alcoholics and smokers. Fact. Not using MDMA is healthier than using. I'm not denying when used wisely mdma is relatively safe but it still increases risk of depression, anxiety and also puts an added strain on your cardiovascular system (ever noticed how your heart races and you get the sweats?). Young fit Australians won't be the only ones gobbling pills if it was legalised unless you are going to put an age restriction on it you will see the odd baby boomer end up in hospital.

Well of course its not good for you, none of the fun stuff is lol

But its not bad enough for you for the health concerns to be a major factor when your comparing it to other far more toxic substances that are already legal.

also, i found a link

http://www.idpc.net/php-bin/documents/BFDPP_BP_14_EffectsOfDecriminalisation_EN.pdf.pdf

That article talks about the effect of decriminalisation in portugal, it has some very interesting stuff in there regarding usage.

Cannabis use rose after the change, but only to a level that was on par with other countries.

Harder drugs, especially opiates and namely heroin actually had a notable decrease in use after decriminalisation, cocaine was relatively stable, with a very small increase which is shocking considering the proximity to Columbia.

Food for thought, while softer drugs like cannabis became more wide spread, harder chemicals dropped off in use.

The results are open to interpretation, based on the fact that after decriminalisation the stigma of drug use lowers allowing people to be more open about their habits potentially causing people who were previously keeping quite about their habbits to come out into the open which could account for the rise in cannabis use where there might not have been any actual increase.

 

[Jordan`]

I was reffering to portregual, not holland. And I wasnt talking about availability I was talking about the amount of users, which I remember actually decreasing in portregual and remaining stable in holland.

I am aware that we are talking about legalisation here and not decriminalisation, but as no country has put formward legalisation the closest thing we have to make predictions based on is decrimilisation.
Its all well and good to speculate what MIGHT happen, but everything everyone has put forward so far is simply that, speculation.
Im trying to provide actual factual information that we can make educated assumptions based on, not pure speculation.
We cant be sure what would happen, the point im trying to get across by using decrimilisation as an example, is that theres no reason to suggest there would be an increase in use. availability yes, but usage is not directly linked to how easy it is to get although it does play a part.

What im trying to stress, is that (minus this horrible drought) anyone who wants to use MDMA can with relative ease, and that an increase in availability would not directly correspond to an increase in users based on the assumtion that whoever wants to use it is already using it because well put simply, in normal circumstances its not hard to come by...

Speculate all you want, but I'd suggest looking into actual facts on how decrimilisation has affected things before making outlandish claims on legalisation I would love to link everyone, but I'm in study mode and really shouldnt be on bl lol

Your post was far from factual information. This thread could be extremely informative based on anecdotal evidence with respect to the effects and experiences various users of MDMA have encountered; yet you're the only person with credibility whatsoever because of your minor knowledge on Portugal's decriminalisation of numerous illicit substances? Considering there are no countries in the world that have legalised MDMA then all replies will most likely be of pure speculation unfortunately.

 

[L3inad]

The factual information you seem to think I lack is include in the link above ^

Feel free to flick through at your leisure, its rather interesting actually.

You right, this thread could be extremely informative, and I'm hoping it brings to light some issues.

Are you saying that speculation based on well, nothing, is better than making an educated guess and trying to back it up with pretty much the only example you'll find in regards to this issue?

I study Pharmacutical Sciences, I deal with facts not speculation. You decide which is more credible.

As you said, no where in the world has tried legalisation, so we have nothing to go off in that respect, the next best thing we have is decrimilisation, and I put forward a very good example for your benefit. Disregard it if you must, your loss

 

[MilliVanilli]

L3inad, I can see where you are coming from, however I think the different cultures need to be taken into account as well. If, say, United States introduced the same laws that Portugal did, I can almost bet my hard earned $19.56 an hour wage, that United States would see quite a rise in use.

With this in mind, by comparison, Australian culture and American culture are much more similar than Portugal and Australia, so I think use would most definitely increase. Not to see our culture is the exact same, but we are a very hedonistic culture nonetheless.

That's what I think anyway. And you are also right, this is all speculation.