CWE disambiguation

[Naggers]

So, there are well over 9000 CWE guides out there, yet there are a few points which they all seem to be unable to agree on.

1. How much water exactly do you use? Some sources say 2ml for every 1 tablet, some say "half a cup" (nice and accurate 8) ).

2. Do you start with warm/room temp water and then cool it, or cold water and then cool it more? i.e. when you first add the water to the powder.

3. Do you need to stir the mixture occasionally as it is cooling? Some guides say just throw the thing in the freezer and leave it for 20-30 mins, and some say to check and stir it every 5-10 mins. Is this necessary?

I've done 3 CWE's so far, and only one of them "worked," in that I felt anything from it. So clearly I'm either going wrong somewhere or the pills had degraded as they were about 6 years out of date.
I use the 2ml water for each tablet method. I use slightly warm water, stir for a couple of minutes, then put in the freezer. I stir every ten minutes. It usually takes about 30 minutes to get reeeeaally cold. Then I use a wet coffee filter to filter it. If this takes a long time (20-30 mins) and the water is pretty clear I assume that the filtering worked well. Once, the solution went through the coffee filter in about 2 minutes, and after using three coffee filters on top of each other and waiting an hour for it to go through that I didn't feel anything!!

I have a CWE in the freezer right now, so I'm gonna go stir it. Any help shedding some light on the above would be greatly appreciated. I assume most of those points would only make a slight difference to the outcome, but what would result in the best possible outcome?

Cheers

 

[Jamshyd]

As I am addicted to codeine, I do CWEs several times daily. I think I am qualified to give some info here...

1. How much water exactly do you use? Some sources say 2ml for every 1 tablet, some say "half a cup" (nice and accurate 8) ).

Personally, I don't think this is too critical an issue. I use just enough water to completely cover the pills/powder, and not much more.

2. Do you start with warm/room temp water and then cool it, or cold water and then cool it more? i.e. when you first add the water to the powder.

This is only critical if you're trying to recrystalize the drug you want. I personally start with room temperature water, bearing in mind that I live in a very cold country and don't use heaters much, so my room temp is probably well below 10 degrees Celsius.

3. Do you need to stir the mixture occasionally as it is cooling? Some guides say just throw the thing in the freezer and leave it for 20-30 mins, and some say to check and stir it every 5-10 mins. Is this necessary?

Definitely stir! In fact, if you can close whatever vessel you're using, shake vigourously! After that, you can let it sit. You may want to put it in the freezer a bit if your room temp is high.

I've done 3 CWE's so far, and only one of them "worked," in that I felt anything from it. So clearly I'm either going wrong somewhere or the pills had degraded as they were about 6 years out of date.
I use the 2ml water for each tablet method. I use slightly warm water, stir for a couple of minutes, then put in the freezer. I stir every ten minutes. It usually takes about 30 minutes to get reeeeaally cold. Then I use a wet coffee filter to filter it. If this takes a long time (20-30 mins) and the water is pretty clear I assume that the filtering worked well. Once, the solution went through the coffee filter in about 2 minutes, and after using three coffee filters on top of each other and waiting an hour for it to go through that I didn't feel anything!!

I have a CWE in the freezer right now, so I'm gonna go stir it. Any help shedding some light on the above would be greatly appreciated. I assume most of those points would only make a slight difference to the outcome, but what would result in the best possible outcome?

Cheers

IMO, (actually, more of a scientific guess), too cold is just as useless as too hot.

Like I said, I do CWEs daily with minimal materials. I don't even crush my pills (bear in mind that I use low quality, uncoated pills). I just put them in a cup, pour enough water on them to completely submerge them, then leave it. It takes about 10mins for the pills to disintegrate from being submerged (much longer if you use something with APAP - I use aspirin-based pills). After this happens, I stir vigourously with the end of a pen or whatever I have in handy.

I then place a folded tissue paper over a small cup, and pour everything in the first cup into the tissue-paper filter. I then collect the filter and squeeze it carefully so that all the water drains out. It drains out almost clear. With APAP-based pills, this may be a bit harder, since APAP tends to drain out of the filter.

There really isn't much rocket-science behind it .

 

[Naggers]

Thanks, that's given me a lot more confidence

Also, what are your experiences with potentiating codeine? Most of the usual opiate potentiators don't work with codeine as they inhibit P450. Or so I've read, anyway. I usually just take it on an empty stomach and have 2 antacids 5 minutes before dosing. Any other suggestions?

 

[Naggers]

Oh and Jamshyd, seeing as you're already addicted to codeine, have you thought about trying poppy pod/seed tea? It sounds so tempting, stonger than codeine and lasting for a whole day. Awkward to get help of the pods, yes; whereas it's easy to get codeine and apap OTC, but a lot of people don't seem to trust it. What are your thoughts - seeing as you're experienced with the code

 

[Mr Blonde]

So, there are well over 9000 CWE guides out there, yet there are a few points which they all seem to be unable to agree on.

1. How much water exactly do you use? Some sources say 2ml for every 1 tablet, some say "half a cup" (nice and accurate 8) ).

2. Do you start with warm/room temp water and then cool it, or cold water and then cool it more? i.e. when you first add the water to the powder.

3. Do you need to stir the mixture occasionally as it is cooling? Some guides say just throw the thing in the freezer and leave it for 20-30 mins, and some say to check and stir it every 5-10 mins. Is this necessary?

Not to be immodest or anything, but have you checked out the CWE mega thread in OD that I created ages ago? Everyone has their own opinions on how to do a CWE, I give mine in the first post and I think it's pretty good.

To answer your questions:

1) Depends on the tablets. Some dissolve better then others. Some dissolve instantly, others turn into a goo that needs heaps of water to make it workable. I usually use enough water to cover the pills see how they dissolve, I like to be liberal with the amount of water I use but that isn't the healthiest idea...

2) Cold water out of the tap and I don't cool it down, no need to. All that stuff about having to cool it down to 'crash' out the APAP/ibuprofen is unproven, in my megathread I believe I gave links to sources showing that the solubility of those two unwanted substances doesn't decrease much below a certain point.

3) I don't put it in the freezer as I never cool it down as I am just using cold water in the first place. I stir it once, maybe give it another stir before I put it through the filter.

As for potentiating, I find diazepam to be quite nice... promethazine is also good. Ethanol induces CYP2D6, so a beer or glass of wine 45 minutes before dosing can be good, St Johns Wort also induces CYP2D6 and according to my CYP450 chart is a strong inducer of that enzyme.

Disclosure; I am also a codeine addict.

 

[Jamshyd]

Naggers: There is a flower shop in my city that sells Giganthium pods in bulk-amounts. Something tells me that he probably knows who he's selling them to.

I partake every once in a while, but I know better not to substitute a bad addiction with a worse one. I am in fact slowly tapering down my codeine intake in hopes of stopping (again, *sigh*).

As for potentiation, I personally don't use anything in particular, though I do drink at least 2 glasses of wine a day, so that probably works. I also take all my codeine rectally using a syringe (hence my emphasis on using minimum water). I honestly don't know if this potentiates it, but it definitely brings effects faster, and I don't have to choke down that rancid juice.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Due to enzymes I don't think rectal administration led to a higher amount of morphine being converted from codeine, but in people with multiple copies of CYP2D6 this may be the case... mmm...

Hitting faster is enough to make me want to try it sometime...

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

10% of the codeine you ingest is typically the average.

Alcohol is an inducer of the enzyme that converts it.
Inducers can raise the amount of codeine converted to 25-30% depending on the strength of induction.

I use carisprodol to induce more conversion, and it does a very fine job of helping get more recreation out of such a weak opiate.
4 somas and 400mgs of codeine can last twice as long as the codeine itself.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Wish I could get soma here in Australia.

I've got a chart of CYP450 enzyme inducers and inhibitors, been experimenting with them... I usually use alcohol, have tried St Johns Wort a few times. The amount of codeine I need to use is disgusting though.

 

[drminaq]

Personally I find the caffeine in the end product the biggest problem with a CWE. The amount of codeine I prefer is in about 400 mgs which creates a brew with perhaps 750 mgs of caffeine. Tthat is enough to keep me up all night and take away any euphoria from the codeine.
Does the drug Clonidine (catapress) inhibit any of those enzymes on your chart Mr. Blonde? thanks

 

[Spliff Politics]

Naggers: There is a flower shop in my city that sells Giganthium pods in bulk-amounts. Something tells me that he probably knows who he's selling them to.

I partake every once in a while, but I know better not to substitute a bad addiction with a worse one. I am in fact slowly tapering down my codeine intake in hopes of stopping (again, *sigh*).

As for potentiation, I personally don't use anything in particular, though I do drink at least 2 glasses of wine a day, so that probably works. I also take all my codeine rectally using a syringe (hence my emphasis on using minimum water). I honestly don't know if this potentiates it, but it definitely brings effects faster, and I don't have to choke down that rancid juice.

So is faster on-set the only difference you get when you plug it? I tried plugging it for the first time on friday and felt that it took longer to kick in, but lasted long as well. Bare in mind that i plugged a lot of solution and probably took a total of 15 minutes to get everything up. So obviously i need to use less water, but do you really feel plugging to be that much more benificial?

 

[drminaq]

as for rectal administration of the CWE end product I highly recommend this especially for those who do it often.
If I drink I am bound to get an upset stomach anyway. As for potentiating your dose? .... perhaps a small amount Like Psych Jay said "10%" is what I have read(source to come)

Less awful tasting and perhaps less of an irritant on your colon than your stomach. I wonder about this though... what left overs of the Apap or Asa etc might do when in contact with such a sensitive organ as the colon

 

[Spliff Politics]

Less awful tasting and perhaps less of an irritant on your colon than your stomach. I wonder about this though... what left overs of the Apap or Asa etc might do when in contact with such a sensitive organ as the colon

Well thats why nurofen plus is the way to go! Although ibuprofen is still bad for you in high doses, it is no-where near as bad as APAP i believe

 

[Naggers]

Hmmm... I'll be honest, I pretty much dismissed rectal administration straight away. Maybe it will be worth a try...
What's the technique to it? I have no qualms about being crude so; Do you just stick a syringe in your ass and squirt it up there? How does it not all come back out? Is there a "technique" to it?

Also, how often do you guys dose? I tend to only do it once every few weeks; however, I'm going to run out of my tramadol script tomorrow (tram sucks for me anyway) so I'll probably be doing it a lot more often. I know "re-dosing" with codeine is pointless due to it inhibiting P450; so how long do you normally give it between doses? You say you do several CWE's daily, Jamshyd... how often exactly is this and do you feel a decent effect from it still considering the relatively short amount of time between doses?

Another quick question... does tolerance have a limit? Mine skyrocketed from 60mg as my first dose to 300mg as my fourth or fifth dose, and this was over the space of about 3 weeks! So if I start doing codeine a lot more often, like every 3 days, will my tolerance continue to increase, will it peak or does it all depend on the individual? It's awkward enough CWEing ~40 pills...

 

[Mr Blonde]

Personally I find the caffeine in the end product the biggest problem with a CWE. The amount of codeine I prefer is in about 400 mgs which creates a brew with perhaps 750 mgs of caffeine. Tthat is enough to keep me up all night and take away any euphoria from the codeine.
Does the drug Clonidine (catapress) inhibit any of those enzymes on your chart Mr. Blonde? thanks

No it is not listed on my chart as inhibiting any CYP450 enzymes.

Search Bluelight for a method on getting rid of the caffeine, I remember there being one...

 

[Zildjian]

Sorry to hijack, but
how long does the CWE solution last? (oxycodone)
i did one with 40 mg/ 4000mg
it's still kinda cloudy, so if i refridgerate it while i sleep and til after school tomorrow will it still be good or do i have to drink it now?

 

[NCUK]

cwe seems dangerous at best to me. then again if you can do with out your liver i say go for it.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Huh? A CWE will save your liver.

it's still kinda cloudy, so if i refridgerate it while i sleep and til after school tomorrow will it still be good or do i have to drink it now?

Should still be good for tomorrow. On a somewhat related topic, later on I might upload some pictures of what happened to one of my shirts I use to CWE. Mold all over it.

 

[Spliff Politics]

Hmmm... I'll be honest, I pretty much dismissed rectal administration straight away. Maybe it will be worth a try...
What's the technique to it? I have no qualms about being crude so; Do you just stick a syringe in your ass and squirt it up there? How does it not all come back out? Is there a "technique" to it?

Also, how often do you guys dose? I tend to only do it once every few weeks; however, I'm going to run out of my tramadol script tomorrow (tram sucks for me anyway) so I'll probably be doing it a lot more often. I know "re-dosing" with codeine is pointless due to it inhibiting P450; so how long do you normally give it between doses? You say you do several CWE's daily, Jamshyd... how often exactly is this and do you feel a decent effect from it still considering the relatively short amount of time between doses?

Another quick question... does tolerance have a limit? Mine skyrocketed from 60mg as my first dose to 300mg as my fourth or fifth dose, and this was over the space of about 3 weeks! So if I start doing codeine a lot more often, like every 3 days, will my tolerance continue to increase, will it peak or does it all depend on the individual? It's awkward enough CWEing ~40 pills...

With the plugging all you need to do is lay on your side in a comfortable posistion while watching T.V or reading a book or some shit. Then put the needleless syringe as far up your arse as you can, remembering to rub it with lube or vaseline before. Slowly squirt the liquid up and repeat as many times as needed. After, stay on your side for aprox 30minutes allowing all of the liquid to be absorbed so none will leak out
Also for me i have been doing 150mg once a week for about a month now and have noticed no tolerance issues, i get a nice buzz every time.

 

[Naggers]

Anyone who has tried St John's Wort as a potentiator, what were your results? I tried wine and some St Johns Wort (no idea how much - it was a tincture, suggested daily dose of '4ml' - just squirted it into the wine) on wednesday, but I went a little over the top with the wine. My codeine tolerance has skyrocketed to about 280mg for a decent high after very mild use, but my alochol tolerance has not increased after heavy use since age 14. So by the time the codeine came on I'd had two glasses of wine and had no idea if I was just pissed or it was the codeine. I felt the usual warmth so I know it had *some* effect, but as to the potentiators... *shrug*.

Also, probably a silly question but... 'take the wine 45 minutes before your dose', does this timing need to be precise? As in, neck the wine within a few minutes? Or can I enjoy a nice glass of wine 45-25 minutes before my dose? It's usually hard to tell how long the solution will take to filter as I'm still adjusting my method so getting things precise is a little difficult.
Sure, I could take the wine when the filtering is done and wait 45 minutes, but I want my codeine NOW!

Take the St Johns Wort around the same time as the wine?