A Roof Over Your Head (Renting, Buying, Units and Houses)

[eggman]

^ Now that is a mass pro-active cause i'd like to see get off the ground.

As the poster two above mentioned, the developers are out there and they are very keen to spring up concrete blocks and make fat cash. Problem is they struggle to be able to build in the city areas (aka: the area the majority of people want to live) and when they can the greedy local governments and the backward and stale ALP shit fight of a state government is to interested in fiscal expension through tax revenue.

 

[IXinX]

Your knowledge of these subjects is great eggman.

I can cite examples of North Sydney council and the monstrosities they want to erect blocking the view for other apartment owners. I was privy to specific info a few years back but have since forgotten the specifics.
One of our clients was interviewed by SMH about this and we all lol'ed heartily in the office at the dismay he expressed that his $900K apartment bought years ago on Berry street will lose value if the erection of a large concrete apartment complex went ahead. He mentioned ALP ministers lining their pockets with property developer donations.

 

[justsayknow]

Its a shame its so difficult to get squatters rights here. I think in the UK the case is a little different though.

I was speaking to someone in the legal proffession who was telling me that in Australia the squatting has to go on for 10 or 12 years and the owner has to be aware that squatters are there but do nothing about it. Then you could apply for squatters rights. Correct me if Im wrong.

Squatters seem to barely get away with a month before the police are called let alone 10 years.

 

[katmeow]

Our house is being sold

Had the first of 8 open for inspections tonight Most people were fine but there was one real pig of a man who who was making some fairly inappropriate comments (like saying to my house mate that he was going to marry her and then when the REAs were packing up, saying he was going to stay and move in). He quite obviously knew some of the REAs and I get the feeling he could be a key player when the auction comes round. I really hope he doesn't turn up to more of the open nights. Having people like that looking at your stuff feels somewhat violating.

Hoping that whoever buys it wants to keep us there as I love the house and the location, but I know it will probably equal a rent hike. Does anyone know - if a house is sold and they still want to keep you as tenants, do they have to honour the terms of your current lease? And also is there any ceiling on the amount it can be increased when your lease expires?

 

[MazDan]

I would be surprised if they dont have to honour the existing lease unless the lease states it becomes null and void in the event of the place being sold. I doubt that would be legal though.

In respect to the ammount a rental can increase, well I doiubt there would be a ceiling as its really up to the two parties to decide what they can agree to.

A smart current renter would ensure the place is spotless for when people come through so a prospective buyer thinks highly of you. Good tenants are not aways easy to find.

If I was renting to someone, I would happily rent for less if I knew the tenants were going to look after my shit.

 

[eggman]

Our house is being sold

Had the first of 8 open for inspections tonight Most people were fine but there was one real pig of a man who who was making some fairly inappropriate comments (like saying to my house mate that he was going to marry her and then when the REAs were packing up, saying he was going to stay and move in). He quite obviously knew some of the REAs and I get the feeling he could be a key player when the auction comes round. I really hope he doesn't turn up to more of the open nights. Having people like that looking at your stuff feels somewhat violating.

Hoping that whoever buys it wants to keep us there as I love the house and the location, but I know it will probably equal a rent hike. Does anyone know - if a house is sold and they still want to keep you as tenants, do they have to honour the terms of your current lease? And also is there any ceiling on the amount it can be increased when your lease expires?

Hey Kat, sucky situation and a jerk of a potential buyer hanging over your head like the sword of damocles can't make it any better

First question is, are you and your friends currently in a under a fixed term Tenancy Agreement recognised by Victorian law (i'm pretty sure you're in VIC now)
or have you left that period and entered into the floating post 12 month part of the agreement?

If you are in the fixed term then great. The landlord (current or otherwise) cannot terminate your agreement unless a) you as the tenant are in clear violation of the
terms of the agreement, or b) you as the tenant and the landlord have reached an agreement where by you agree to terminate the term the lease with an appropriate amount of notice, obviously this will involve you receiving reasonable compensation. Unless there is a provision of clause in your lease (you will need to check) then the tenancy agreement will carry through to the new owner.

If your near the end of the agreed term you can be served with a notice within the last 14 days advising that you have 14 days to clear out the premises.

If the sale goes ahead outside of the fixed term you may be asked to vacate the premises by the time the sale is finalised. They only need issue 30 days written notice after the contracts of sale have been entered into.

In terms of rent increases, once gain if you are in the fixed term part of your lease then your in luck. They will need to give you up to 90 days notice of an increase and that increase needs to be comparable and in line with the rent charged on similar properties in the same area.

If your out of it, then that could be limited to 14 days. The comparison test is typically the only limiter to rent changes. Your rights will come from the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal. If you think the increase is excessive then lodge a complaint. The increase will then be frozen until the matter is resolved. The tribunal up hold the increase or revise it down. There have been circumstances in which the increase was so ridiculous that the tribunal has put a freeze in rent increases on that property for up to 6 months.

The best advice though is to stay in contact with your landlord and REA. As long as reasonable people with reasonable expectations are able to talk openly and negotiate - a reasonable outcome will be reached.

 

[katmeow]

Muchos thanks for the info

Yeah, I am in Vic. We are currently on a 6 month agreement which ends 31 July. I'll have to check, but I don't think there was anything out of the ordinary in it.

 

[eggman]

I should add that I can stand behind what I said 100% in regards to NSW and QLD but i'm not to sure if it completely carries through in terms of Victorian legislation. I can say however that the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal is also a rather effective unit and I highly recommend contacting them for a quick confirmation of your rights.

Hopefully your property will sell to an investor and that segment is seeing good returns lately. Also if the property in question doesn't fall into the first home owner segment then thats also a good sign. So I support Mazdan's advice and stay on top of your appearance as an potential investor may be keen to sign you up for a renewal if you guys seem like good tenants.

However, you guys should also be realistic and brace yourselves for the worse too. If anything you will all be prepared and ready to get into it should the whole process look like going against you.

 

[sux2]

^ I would never ever offer more rent for a place.

Ditto. It does seem lots of people are doing it around Melbourne area. We've got a house but rent to be closer to the city. We offered 12 months rent in advance as we have our savings which gets interest and got our day to day account that gets no interest which has more than the 12 months rent we offered. We 'won' the place a few months ago but he only wanted 6 months rent so it wouldn't run into the next fiscal year and that'd make him do more paperwork than wanted. So we got the place, no extra rent offered and 'just' gave half the offered amount in advance which bears no relation to the interest we get per month

 

[astrosmurf]

Hey Eggy (and anyone else) - I need help.

I lived in an apartment (NSW) with two other girls. We moved out one by one, advised the RE every time and signed all the forms we were told to.

I was the last to move out and the RE advised me of the wrong form to sign - they told me to sign another change of tenancy but those forms are only valid if there is at least one original tenant still on the lease.

The RE never sent any of the original change of tenancy forms to the bond board so all three original tenants were still on the lease and the bond was in our name - even though the new tenants had paid us in cash.

We have sorted the bond out by getting it refunded to the RE for them to lodge for the new tenants.
As yet, the new tenants haven't signed the lease so the RE is claiming we are still on the lease - here is the latest email from them.

"We do realise that you have given notice and returned bond to us as required, and we thank you for your co-operation and patience.

However, when you vacated we were not given vacant possession as per a normal tenancy.

In this case people have been occupying the property in this transition period which makes it tricky.

That is why you are technically held responsible - until the lease and bond form are signed by the new tenants.

We have done the final inspection and condition report for the new tenants and everything with the property was fine".


This is the most inept RE and agent I've ever dealt with and I've dealt with some shockers. Everything she has told us along the way has been wrong and this has been dragging on for 4 months now.


Is this legal?
Is there anything I can do to get us removed from the lease?

 

[IXinX]

I just scored a 3 brm 2 bath 2 secure carspace apartment in a central location for $750 per week

How?

A client at work, and being able to wheel and deal my way into it. I would have never ever ever been able to get such a premium quality and location apartment if it had been on the rental market through an agent.

I feel blessed.

(end gloat)

 

[ayjay]

^ Astrosmurf this all looks above board I'm afraid. Sounds like the new tenants moved in while you were still there, then you moved out. Hence "no vacant possession". You could probably make some noise about the unfiled change of lease forms - but the easiest way out would be to contact the new tenants and ask them to sign a lease with the agent - then it's all sorted.

I rented - mostly share houses - for about 20 years and planned to continue doing so indefinitely. However, after moving to Melbourne I had the houses I was in sold out from under me 6 times in 6 years, and had to move out every time. This broke my brain - now 2 and a bit years into house ownership. What a relief not having to deal with finding somewhere new to live every year.

 

[Samadhi]

Muchos thanks for the info

Yeah, I am in Vic. We are currently on a 6 month agreement which ends 31 July. I'll have to check, but I don't think there was anything out of the ordinary in it.

Kat, as we've discussed, i'm in a similar situation as well. We spoke to VCAT who advised that if the sale of the house occurs within or outside of the lease, once settlement occurs, you have 60 days to vacate. However, the sucky part is that within that time, you need to provide them with 28 days notice. It makes looking for a property really difficult. We've now got the added extra of buying our next place (yeah, we decided to go ahead and just do it), so we're hoping that the next owners are investors, and we'll try to negotiate a month by month lease. It's all about timing, which seems to be really sticky!

 

[eggman]

Astro - That is a really sucky situation. The points put forward by the RE are correct, the paper work listed needs to be completed and lodged in the correct order.

Unfortunately you (and your friends) have been the victim of inept, clumsy and careless RE staff. You could start making noise about the issue but the furthest it is likely to get you is for the RE staff in question to be fired or disciplined by the RE Agency.

You can always request a mediation involving the relevant tenancy advocate or regulator. In this situation you can all sit down and put your concerns forward, but in all honesty I think you could reach the same conclusion yourselves.

The RE can fall back on the contractual law caveat of Consideration; which means that regardless of wether or not contracts have been signed and/or filed properly or at all, the conditions of that contractual agreement can be agreed to by each of the parties simply carrying out the actions required by that contract. So in this case tenants were able to move in and out, bonds taken/refunded and rent paid - so the lease was bound.

My recommendation is for you to use the RE staff members poor performance as leverage to have the matter resolved. This person fucked up and your in a tight spot, so there is reason for each party to help one another.

That e-mail indicates that they are happy with the condition of the property, they agree you have co-operated with them and it seems as though there aren't any outstanding rents etc. You, the past tenants and the current tenants should be provided with all relevant paperwork so that the past tenants can sign the relevant paperwork to vacate and the current tenants can sign the relevant paperwork to be bound to an agreeable lease. The paperwork in question can then be back dated or attached to a file note.

If you guys reach an agreement in this way, write down all of the key dates and what happened on those dates. Send the RE emails with pertinent points relating to this issue, you can set a reply confirmation or motivate them to reply - keep those emails as hard copies. As always, keep records and if your in doubt if something is relevant then keep it anyway.

The best thing to do is determine exactly what you and the other parties want out of this process. If you all just want the piece of mind that all of the correct paperwork is signed and filed; go and have a polite and constructive conversation with the RE. However, if you're worried that you may remain vulnerable or liable at a later date then I recommend going to a tenancy rights tribunal for advice.

 

[astrosmurf]

Thanks for the advice guys. It looks like this should hopefully be sorted tonight when a new lease is finally signed.

It was just beyond annoying that we had kept the RE informed along every step of the way - letting them know we would be moving out and asking what needed to be done in regards to the new tenants etc.
I understand your points that legally the lease terms weren't adhered to, my annoyance stemmed from the fact that at all times we followed the advice the RE gave us (or that which the Rental Bond Board advised where the RE was wrong, and I constantly emailed the RE to keep her informed).


If they had filed the forms correctly and advised me of the correct forms to fill out when I vacated, none of this would have happened.
If I hadn't made a random follow up phonecall a month after I'd vacated to ensure I had been removed from the lease we would have never even been aware of this problem.

I kinda wish I had the energy to go through and write down all the information to make an official complaint against the realtor but at the same time, i really don't want to waste any more of my time or energy on her.

Here's hoping me need for rage ends tonight. And it looks like my dealings with rental realtors will be ending (hopefully once and for all) in a few months - bring it on! :D

 

[nath6023]

Just call me over, me and my piece of shit vp comodoore with no insurance can ram them all to hell and make space. Bumpers and lights are cheap on ebay anywayz. Or i could tow it to Nelson Bay, throw it in the bush for a possum house? These are all good idea's.

 

[muzby]

renting bites.

buy something, anything, as soon as you can.. it makes your the master of your own domain and you don't have to worry about stupid landlords... and, if it's a unit, being an owner gives you a louder voice with body corporate..


but.. eggman, in relation to your query at the top, check out consumer affairs in NSW. there should be something there regarding escalating issues that body corporate does not follow thru with.

 

[sux2]

renting bites.

buy something, anything, as soon as you can.. it makes your the master of your own domain and you don't have to worry about stupid landlords... and, if it's a unit, being an owner gives you a louder voice with body corporate..

On the flipside, we own but rather live in rented places.
1: We move around to new pastures 'every so often so we don't get bored
2: Negative gearing is great for spending $$$ on toys. Helicopters, motorbikes, cars thanks to tax.
3: disposable $$$. Mortgages for most are a fair bit more than renting so those on 'average pay' jobs can be better off renting (for entertainment/disposable income etc)
4: Financial sense, it can be better off to invest in other stuff rather than 'just' buy a house if you're after things for a bottom dollar line.
5: We've become VERY GOOD friends with a few landlords, our current place we've lived in for stuff all and just met the landlord, he is great. Let us build stuff here that suits us (sure, he makes $$$ from improvements but we liked the better living conditions the small renovations entailed and cost zero. Friends in the right places
6: disregard all this if you'd rather own than rent Each to their own

 

[eggman]

but.. eggman, in relation to your query at the top, check out consumer affairs in NSW. there should be something there regarding escalating issues that body corporate does not follow thru with.

We ended up getting a win out of that one. In the end the weak link was the strata manager, Body Corp has to go through the strata to communicate with anyone who doesn't strata levies. The issue did go to them originaly however due to staffing changes the issue sat in the in-tray of someone who had recently resigned.

Fortunately our new case manager at the strata co was out to impress and moved really swiftly. Came out and did daily inspections etc on the car park and took photos and video. In the end it turns out the tenant of the offending unit was sub-letting which is a big no-no for that particular unit.