ADD/ADHD and Drug Abuse

[Wizzle]

It really sucks that it's so hard to find the right balance with the stims, especially with comorbid anxiety issues. have you tried d-amp? it's supposed to make you less anxious then d/l-amp (adderall).

Side effects of stims really worry me

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm 22 and it still has to be diagnosed.. It's very likely I have it though... When I look at my school history I probably also have (maybe had) Oppositional Defiant Disorder. In 8th and 9th grade I literally got booted out of class half the times I attended.

I don't like playing the blame game but I curse my fucking school for only punishing and never getting me evaluated by a psych. they did however send me to a lower level (we have four types of HS here, I went to the highest and got kicked back to the third) and made me go to city hall about my attendance (for getting kicked out, how fucked up is that).

So now, three years after high school, having started two different college educations and flunking both, then spiraling into more and more drug use I finally got to this point to actually do something about my problems. I realize it is also my own fault but these schools are so incompetent. fuckem!

I would definitely advise you look into getting a diagnosis, I think medication would help you. Good luck!

I am sorry to hear about the incompetent schools you went to, that's what happens when you (not you of course, but the generations previous to ours) let the government in control of K-12 public education.

I think I would have suffered from depression with or without the ADD (it runs in my family) but the ADD certainly didn't help. A lot of ADDers, especially the inattentive type have issues with depression, and there's no doubt that untreated ADD causes enough life problems to affect a person's emotional state. In middle and high school I could never concentrate at a normal level, so I usually didn't get the type of grades I could have. I have a high IQ, so my parents and teachers were always telling me that I just "wasn't applying myself" or was lazy, which definitely made me feel guilty because I did want to do well in school but could never concentrate. Once I got prescribed meds for ADD my senior year of high school I was finally able to make use of my intelligence and got a 4.0 that year, and later graduated college with honors.

These are generalizations people make about ADD/ADHD'ers "lazy", "wasn't applying themselves", etc - because they aren't consciously able to comprehend the fact that it's a neurological based condition, if ADD/ADHD'ers are on medications that help modulate the neurotransmitters that they are lacking, their condition can easily be helped out to a certain degree.

I often feel lazy/that I'm not applying myself, and that can be an issue for some people, but many ADD/ADHD people are not lazy, apply themselves well under the right circumstances and accommodations, and are often intelligent people.

I'm glad that ADD meds helped you man!

ADD for me is having uncontrollable thoughts (hyperactive brain) that come across as constant noise, can't focus on one thought or complete a task. you daydream, mind wanders, no sense of time.. if you tell me something, i may just hear gibberish

I have these same problems.

stimulants are a double-edged sword. they're the only thing that allow me to function decently.. well enough to write this, drive, follow directions, schedules, plan & complete tasks, solve basic problems.. but my anxiety & other mental issues are negatively affected and i think i'm kind of losing my grip on things..

Therapy and medication can help.

You may want to try just vyvanse, or dexedrine instead of Adderall, the l-isomer tends to make some people extra-anxious and also is the cause of a lot of the undesirable PNS effects.

i've been seeing a few psychs the past 3 years, so i've been through therapy, went through the MMPI testing: diagnosed with social anxiety, formal thought disorder, schizotypal and borderline personality. OCD was mild; not clinical level

i was diagnosed with dyslexia at 5 & went through developmental training to repattern areas of my brain. i started walking at 6mo old but had a poor sense of coordination..i walked into walls & wrote backwards till i was about 8

luckily i had extra help in school, even tho i wasn't there mentally, the teachers passed me. i never passed an assignment on my own. i was homeschooled in highschool, dropped out of university = 2 1/2 years of partying, 0courses completed

I'm sorry to hear about this man, I know people who didn't do well in a university because they always partied, they started well off in their classes but didn't follow through with the whole semester of work and that didn't work well to their advantage.

This can often happen to ADD/ADHD'ers.

i think i come across fairly intelligent. i never had a problem with speech or spelling. i can't retain information.. i have to read a sentence by each word, then again to integrate the words into one cohesive thought.. then i read the next sentence but i already forgot the last sentence. trying to read this post would normally give me a headache & probably take me half an hour to finish

Do ADD meds help you with this, or does it not?

i'm not that bad off. i've never successfully been independent tho. i've had steady music gigs in the past, but this year has been dry.. i'm completely depedant on my family atm, which makes me feel pretty lame

i'm 26 & my life is passing me by again. the mental issues are kind of fucking me up at the moment

there's definitely a connection between drug use and AD(H)D. i mean, we're trying to cope. drugs slow down your mind to a normal level. weed still helps me, when i have it. of course getting high feels good, but it's not like i'm fucked up. my judgement is clear, my mood is level & i'm productive

without drugs i stay up for days to ease my mind, fast, binge, and act on impulse.. otherwise i wouldn't do anything at all cause i'm stuck in a thought loop. if i don't think about it, i can take action.. that includes spending sprees and other mindless stuff i end up regretting later

music is the one thing i've been successful with & makes sense to me.. sex, drugs, & rock n roll

I think if you do a little soul searching you'll realize you enjoy your life and that's all that matters. If you're good at music, then that's great! Music is wonderful and it takes a truly deep, talented person to do it right.

Thanks for the contribution man, this helps me see through to a lot of how drug use/abuse manifests in ADD/ADHD. I appreciate your response a lot.

It really sucks that it's so hard to find the right balance with the stims, especially with comorbid anxiety issues. have you tried d-amp? it's supposed to make you less anxious then d/l-amp (adderall).

Side effects of stims really worry me

The side effects of stims aren't that bad if you use stimulants responsibly.

That's the key, really. Is to know when you absolutely need relief, and when you can live without it. If I'm going to do homework, or attend class, yeah I would take the medication. If I'm going to be hanging out by myself at home, and I've caught up on cleaning up around the house/doing chores like clothes, laundary, taking out the trash, then I think I would be able to live without it.

You basically should prioritize when and why you need to take your medication. You should also plan on taking days off, and saving up medication for the future - you never know when you'll need it (exams, etc).

 

[Wizzle]

Hey CH, thanks for the thorough reply.. I am actually getting tested, I have an appointment with my drug counselor tomorrow and then we will schedule an appointment. I had to wait a while since they don't do psychiatric evaluation before you're six weeks clean.

What worries me about stimulants is not the short term, but the long term side-effects and it's effectiveness after prolonged use. Also, for me, extracted methylphenidate gave me the best euphoria of any drug. Although I don't think I'll ever abuse drugs again it scares me a little.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Hey CH, thanks for the thorough reply.. I am actually getting tested, I have an appointment with my drug counselor tomorrow and then we will schedule an appointment. I had to wait a while since they don't do psychiatric evaluation before you're six weeks clean.

What worries me about stimulants is not the short term, but the long term side-effects and it's effectiveness after prolonged use. Also, for me, extracted methylphenidate gave me the best euphoria of any drug. Although I don't think I'll ever abuse drugs again it scares me a little.

Well, if you abuse drugs the effectiveness may go away. However if you use the ADD meds responsibly, I wouldn't see why they would become ineffective.

If you get therapy/additional treatment while on ADD meds, this would be most ideal. This way the medication doesn't have to be a permanent thing.

Overall it sounds like you're doing the right things thus far. Good luck with getting a diagnosis! I recently got mine and it's a huge relief to me. If it were to have turned out that I didn't have ADHD, I don't know how to explain a lot of the problems in my life. Now that I see that I clearly have ADHD, it makes a lot of sense and the pieces are falling together.

---

I have another example of drug use due to ADHD. When I had 6 hour long classes (yes, 6 hour long classes, one class for intersession, 6 days per week) I would take 0.5mg to 1mg of lorazepam just so I could sit still. As someone who now knows they have ADHD, 6 hours (with a 20 minute break in the middle) of sitting still is *ridiculous*. Pure and simple.

Somehow I managed to sit still with the lorazepam. I would be stoned when I went in for the class, by the time the break came I would take the lorazepam. The last few hours of the class went by quicker this way.

Additionally, I got an A in the class!

 

[WSB15]

I got the same crap about 'applying myself'. Basically the school I did do I did without any effort, while third level is still higher then average. I sure hope (if I do have add) meds and/or therapy will work as good as it did with you.

Do you get amphetamines? I read methylphenidate doesn't work too well on inattentive type.

I started on methylphenidate. It worked, but made me feel kind of nervous and just not like myself. Later switched to Adderall and then Dexedrine, I think they work even better for me and were smoother. I take 10 mg Dexedrine Spansules now.

 

[phactor]

I was a very early diagnosis of ADD, like early 90s. I underwent 2 weeks of testing, so I am sure I had it.

I'm sure it has played a roll in my abuse. Of course eventually my use made it worse and I basically had to really slow down, especially the harder stuff. I stopped taking medication when I was a junior in high school and am pretty good at managing my symptoms. I was never all that hyperactive, but I still have problems focusing sometimes. One thing that really helped me was when I reenrolled in college my first year I only took 50 minute classes or less, then started taking longer ones over time. I still to this day would rather have more things happen in shorter bursts rather then sit for one thing (example: meeting) over several hours. Obviously I cannot always control this.

Another thing I often wonder... my parents are older hippies, and did not like me taking the medication but realized I had to. So of course they only gave it to me on school days. I have later learned that this is not good because when I would "get back on" it was basically teaching my body to learn to expect effects. If that makes sense. The first drug I ever abused was my ritalin. Up until I stopped completely I went through a pattern of the 5 days on and 2 days off, which later developed into longer "off" times.

For the record, I am not opposed to medication at all. If it works it works. It helped me focus, but the negative effects began to outweigh the positive ones. Plus it effected my appetite and I think made me smaller. I have just started addressing this over the past year and am feeling much more confident after achieving some pretty significant muscle growth.

Two things:

1. I will readily admit that honey moon periods of substance abuse help intially. For me it was amphetamines (abusing my script) to weed to benzos to opiates to booze. Eventually they all ran the course and screwed me over for fucking years. Now the only thing I regularly use is alcohol and cannabis and I really have to watch that stuff.

2. Having ADD does have its benefits. I can multitask really well. I am good at handling multiple situations occurring at one time. I am also good at powering through busy days. Its when I have to sit behind a desk all day that I can struggle.

Thom Hartmann suggests that ADD is actually an adaptation that occurred when man hunted which allowed him to track multiple prey at one time. Of course I could never kill an animal intentionally so I will not be testing this out.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

For the record, I am not opposed to medication at all. If it works it works. It helped me focus, but the negative effects began to outweigh the positive ones. Plus it effected my appetite and I think made me smaller. I have just started addressing this over the past year and am feeling much more confident after achieving some pretty significant muscle growth.

I can understand where you're coming from. I can often eat on a low dose of amphetamine (7.5mg IR) but am unable to eat on a large dose (10 to 30mg XR).

I plan only to take the medication on days I really need to, and take a day off on the days I can afford to. I prefer working out not on amphetamines, and I tend to eat more if I'm not on amphetamine.

I used to eat very infrequently and I am doing better with that. I only expect ADHD meds to help me in that area, since I am not going to take them frequently (and I'll be getting instant release, not extended release).

2. Having ADD does have its benefits. I can multitask really well. I am good at handling multiple situations occurring at one time. I am also good at powering through busy days. Its when I have to sit behind a desk all day that I can struggle.

I can really sympathize with you here, I'm the same way.

Thom Hartmann suggests that ADD is actually an adaptation that occurred when man hunted which allowed him to track multiple prey at one time. Of course I could never kill an animal intentionally so I will not be testing this out.

Interesting theory! It makes sense, actually.

Thanks for the great post!

 

[unsettled]

I hope I'm not derailing this thread by posting this article, but this is an article about how Indian culture views "ADD Types". It's not too long and it's worth reading, I think it's pretty relevant, but feel free to remove it if you feel it isn't relevant to this thread.



I was in India in 1993 to help manage a community for orphans and blind children on behalf of a German charity. During the monsoon season, the week of the big Hyderabad earthquake, I took an all-day train ride almost all the way across the subcontinent (from Bombay through Hyderabad to Rajamundri) to visit an obscure town near the Bay of Bengal. In the train compartment with me were several Indian businessmen and a physician, and we had plenty of time to talk as the countryside flew by from sunrise to sunset.

Curious about how they viewed our children diagnosed as having Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), I asked, “Are you familiar with those types of people who seem to crave stimulation, yet have a hard time staying with any one focus for a period of time? They may hop from career to career and sometimes even from relationship to relationship, never seeming to settle into one job or into a life with one person — but the whole time they remain incredibly creative and inventive.”

“Ah, we know this type well,” one of the men said, the other three nodding in agreement.

“What do you call this personality type?” I asked.

“Very holy,” he said. “These are old souls, near the end of their karmic cycle.”

Again, the other three nodded agreement, perhaps a bit more vigorously in response to my startled look.

“Old souls?” I questioned, thinking that a very odd description for those whom American psychiatrists have diagnosed as having a particular disorder.

“Yes,” the physician said. “In our religion, we believe that the purpose of reincarnation is to eventually free oneself from worldly entanglement and desire. In each lifetime we experience certain lessons, until finally we are free of this earth and can merge into the oneness of God. When a soul is very close to the end of those thousands of incarnations, he must take a few lifetimes to do many, many things — to clean up the little threads left over from his previous lives.”

“This is a man very close to becoming enlightened,” a businessman added. “We have great respect for such individuals, although their lives may be difficult.”

Another businessman raised a finger and interjected. “But it is through the difficulties of such lives that the soul is purified.”

The others nodded agreement.

“In America they consider this behavior indicative of a psychiatric disorder,” I said.

All three looked startled, then laughed.

“In America you consider our most holy men, our yogis and swamis, to be crazy people as well,” said the physician with a touch of sadness in his voice. “So it is with different cultures. We live in different worlds.”

We in our Western world have such “holy” and nearly enlightened people among us and we say they must be mad. But as we’re about to see, they may instead be our most creative individuals, our most extraordinary thinkers, our most brilliant inventors and pioneers. The children among us whom our teachers and psychiatrists say are “disordered” may, in fact, carry a set of abilities — a skill set — that was necessary for the survival of humanity in the past, that has created much of what we treasure in our present “quality of life,” and that will be critical to the survival of the human race in the future.

 

[Wizzle]

That's pretty interesting unsettled.. Makes me feel all special

It wouldn't stop me from taking medication though, because I don't believe in reincarnation.

__

I am the type of guy who can still eat while taking considerable amounts of amphetamine or mdma, so the anorectic effect shouldn't be a problem considering the dosages are much lower then for recreational use. Do these dosages affect your hart rate when doing cardio? I can imagine for weight training the extra focus will come in handy but with cardio I'm not sure.

 

[unsettled]

wouldn't stop me from taking meds either, I'd prefer to take meds if I know they'll help. I just found it to be an interesting article.

 

[Wizzle]

On that we definitely agree. I'd be cool with it either way. I'll take some meds, have a nice and happy life and let the next me finish of the karmic cycle.. hellzz yeah, fuck me!

 

[morphonorconic]

Captain H, I was the same way with H too; I preferred to stretch mine out, feel good and perform endless numbers of tasks, rather than do a lot at once and nod out. I got unbelievable amounts of motivation from dope. Sounds like you and me were/are alike in that way.

I was just about two weeks ago that I posted in regards to my being diagnosed with having ADD, but that I do not have trouble concentrating. Well, I feel like I am eating my words. Having made the choice to go back to school, while working landscaping twenty to thirty hours per week, I am finding myself overwhelmed, and more so, worn out physically and mentally. I have been working half days in the morning on the days I have class, and by the time I actually get to class @ 2 o'clock, I am exhausted, and cannot muster the appropriate levels of concentration and motivation required for me to perform as well as I desire. It's really annoying, because I tell myself to just "snap out of it" and concentrate, but will find myself spacing out (again) within minutes of this realization. It is very frustrating, and is becoming more and more of a problem.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

wouldn't stop me from taking meds either, I'd prefer to take meds if I know they'll help. I just found it to be an interesting article.

I thought it was interesting, just slightly off topic though. However I thought it was a very good read though so thank you for posting it!

I can't say I agree with their way at looking at it, but I admire unique perspectives on such matters.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Captain H, I was the same way with H too; I preferred to stretch mine out, feel good and perform endless numbers of tasks, rather than do a lot at once and nod out. I got unbelievable amounts of motivation from dope. Sounds like you and me were/are alike in that way.

I see, yeah I was the same way. Glad to hear I'm not alone there.

I was just about two weeks ago that I posted in regards to my being diagnosed with having ADD, but that I do not have trouble concentrating. Well, I feel like I am eating my words. Having made the choice to go back to school, while working landscaping twenty to thirty hours per week, I am finding myself overwhelmed, and more so, worn out physically and mentally. I have been working half days in the morning on the days I have class, and by the time I actually get to class @ 2 o'clock, I am exhausted, and cannot muster the appropriate levels of concentration and motivation required for me to perform as well as I desire. It's really annoying, because I tell myself to just "snap out of it" and concentrate, but will find myself spacing out (again) within minutes of this realization. It is very frustrating, and is becoming more and more of a problem.

Many people are ADHD and aren't identified as such because there are many different forms of the hyperactive/impulsive features.

Have you tried ADD/ADHD meds? What do you think of them?

 

[lakeman990]

I have tapered from 16 mg of Suboxone to 4 mg and have been on this mg for 6 months. But i feel weak as hell at work and cant perform late in the day as he expects me to bust my ass. You think anywas possible my sub dr would prescribe me Adderall?. If not how the hell i get Adderall?.A friend gave me a couple of 30 mg Adderall and i felt like a new person and work was a breeze and my boss impressed? What are my changes of getting Adderall from him or do i need to see a different dr and take a test to prove i have ADD?

 

[Wizzle]

I don't think using stimulants to get energy at work is a road you wanna take. Maybe you should look for other work, because your boss pushing you like that might mess up your sobriety. Or is that not an option?

Dunno man, stims to get energy will make you have less and less energy without 'em and finally they'll drain you, unless your using really low dosages maybe.

 

[FloridaHighs]

i feel the need to incorporate my thread in this

Well, my life is shit... thanks ADD

The only things that interest me now are
1. Drugs
2. Xbox
3. Sex
4. Drugs

About a year or two ago I was first diagnosed with ADD. The shrink put me on 10mg Concerta, aka the death pill. Then as my tolerance built up 10mg went to 24, 32, and finally 54mg...

At 54mg a day I was still bored and unfocused out of my mind. Simple tasks grew harder and harder.

I started taking 108mg a day... yes it sucked, but my grades went up.

After 2-3 months of 108mg a day my tolerance was built up like Fort Knox... Any stimulant i tried to take just wouldnt work, coke, RCs, MDMA, dex, all wouldnt even do anything.

One day I brought one of my pills to school to give to a girl I liked who told me she was having focusing problems...

In 7th period i get dragged out of class and expelled... thanks Concerta for being a schedule II drug.

I stop taking the pills for a month...

After being expelled i developed depression, social anxiety, and panic attacks...
So I tell my parents and they're like OMG No Wayz!
So I go to my shrink and he tells me... well im not going to prescribe any meds for your suicidal thoughts and panic attacks but ill give you some ADD meds...
Hmmm im thinking... dumbass whos parents bought him an education...
He also tells me to go see another therapist.. on top of him, and the one my school makes me go to.

Soo.... Im seeing 3 ruhtards, my anxiety is only getting worse, and I cant do other drugs anymore because my parents drug test me...

 

[Wizzle]

I can't believe they make you go to three therapists, that's senseless. Also, they sound like retards for upping your dose like that instead of trying some other stimulant or maybe recheck your diagnosis.

How did they test you? Was is thorough?

 

[FloridaHighs]

test me for what? And I respectfully declined any more stimulant use, so they gave me some strattera. So i take some and look it up. On Rxlist the first thing i see when i go to the page is

WARNING

SUICIDAL IDEATION IN CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS

STRATTERA (atomoxetine) increased the risk of suicidal ideation in short-term studies in children or adolescents with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Anyone considering the use of STRATTERA in a child or adolescent must balance this risk with the clinical need. Co-morbidities occurring with ADHD may be associated with an increase in the risk of suicidal ideation and/or behavior. Patients who are started on therapy should be monitored closely for suicidality (suicidal thinking and behavior), clinical worsening, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. STRATTERA is approved for ADHD in pediatric and adult patients. STRATTERA is not approved for major depressive disorder.

Im sitting here going Do'h! Retards with medical degrees... gotta love em gotta hate em

 

[Wizzle]

For ADD.. Did they do some honest tests or did they just shove it in your face? I understand you don't want anymore stimulants but they should have switched to another one before upping your Concerta to retarded amounts.