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Was it really Codeine's fault?

H

helohihello

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
107
Remember that thing about long term Codeine use causing hearing loss?
Remember how eveyone laughed when someone hypothesised that it could have been due to the acetaminophen or aspirin or ibuprofen, and not the codeine?

Well I just found this article, can't get the full study.

http://www.modernmedicine.com/moder...Article/detail/660847?contextCategoryId=40130

WEDNESDAY, March 10 (HealthDay News) -- The regular use of aspirin, acetaminophen, and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) may increase the risk of hearing loss in men, especially younger men, according to research published in the March issue of the American Journal of Medicine.

Sharon G. Curhan, M.D., of the Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, and colleagues analyzed data from 26,917 men who were aged 40 to 74 years at baseline in 1986. Subjects were surveyed about regular use of aspirin, NSAIDs and acetaminophen every two years, and, in 2004, they reported if and when they had been diagnosed with hearing loss.

The researchers found that men using aspirin, NSAIDs or acetaminophen two or more times a week had a higher risk of hearing loss compared to men using them less than twice a week (multivariate adjusted hazard ratios, 1.12, 1.21 and 1.22, respectively). The association was stronger in younger men. In men under 50 years of age, the hazard ratios for hearing loss were 1.33, 1.61 and 1.99, respectively.

"The ototoxic effects of high-dose salicylates, reversible hearing loss and tinnitus, are well documented. Salicylates induce biochemical and electrophysiological changes that alter membrane conductance of outer hair cells and vasoconstriction in auditory microvasculature, possibly mediated by antiprostaglandin activity," the authors write. "High doses of NSAIDs also have been reported to be ototoxic in animal studies and in human case reports. Similar to salicylates, NSAIDs inhibit cyclooxygenase and decrease prostaglandin activity, potentially reducing cochlear blood flow."
Click to expand...

So instead of putting certain bans on codeine products they probably should have brought out pure codeine instead.
 
Nice find! I'm going to leave this here for a while, but maybe this belongs in the OD thread, where more codeine users might see it useful.
 
Well would you look at that....

funny how these things come to light after x amount of stigma has already been attached to something....!
 
The irony is just beautiful. Good to know I was saving more than just my liver with all those CWE's.
 
so are you trying to say that they restricting codeine containing products
and therefore increasing aspirin, acetaminophen, and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs
which is the fucking reason behind this hearing-loss!?

my god...this is just too fucked to be true
im glad i never got a kick out of codeine then, i guess...

best of luck to the opiate lovers out there
 
Sykik said:
Nice find! I'm going to leave this here for a while, but maybe this belongs in the OD thread, where more codeine users might see it useful.
Click to expand...

i have no problem with the article being cross posted and merged into our CWE megathread; it would be useful in the original post. i can't speak for the other guys but i can't see them having a problem with it.

nice find
 
Bump! ... Thanx for the interesting article. :)

And speaking of "Irony" ^^ ...
I have suffered with ear problems all my life and for the first 15 years or so ALL I ever got for the pain was Panadol (100% pure APAP crap!) ... I took more panadol than any child ever should ... now I know in retrospect that not only would my liver have been under constant strain over all of my 'formative' years ... The act of taking all the Paracetamol could well have been what eventually totally killed my ears!!! ... :! ... countless surgical procedures yet eardums never to return (and the Tinnitus is almost 'deafening' [pun?] , maddening really ... but I have the 'advantage' of gradual deterioration over many years so I guess that helps to get used to it).

To think that all of this may have been avoided by simply not using the toxic Paracetamol tablets is a major mind-fuck! ... but not much point in getting upset anymore. At least I was concious enough as a young teen to start avoiding such pharmaceuticals ... I used Cannabis in replacement of nearly all other 'medications' (poisons) and basically have done to this day ... Even still though , I wonder how I was left to suffer such extreme pain as a child. It truly boggles the mind the fact that I was never even offered a stronger form of pain relief (like codeine). It's not like the seriousness of my problem and pain wasn't known (why else would you have surgery on your eardrum if not severe). Anyhoo , 'tis in the past now. Just thought I'd relay that story.
Definatly have bookmarked this study ... Great Post. %)

Cheers.

P.S. Note: I do believe as a child that there were only 250mg Panadol tablets available (more than enough for small kids no doubt) ... I don't remember seeing 500mg tablets on the market until my teens. Did they exist (500mgs) 20 odd years ago? ... maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention?
I hope someone can clarify that for me , just for interests sake. Thx. :)
 
What... I must have missed this discussion but I always thought it was the aspirin that caused this, in fact there has been an article on Erowid for years about it.

Are you telling me you posted that you thought that here and NO ONE picked up on it not being the codeine and it being the other substances? Jesus Christ...

ETA: Just in case anyone is curious, the thing I'm talking about is in the Erowid answers section, I think the codeine vault but a search on hearing loss should turn it up.
 
I must have missed this discussion too. I have also read the erowid report many years ago and have barely touched APAP since.

I never suspected codeine was causing the damage, being an opium alkaloid and all.

There will never be pure codeine tablets available in Australia because of the abuse potential that such a product would create.
 
There will never be pure codeine tablets available in Australia because of the abuse potential that such a product would create.
Click to expand...

alcohol-737533.jpg
 
Heheh , Nicely placed pic there Crankinit ;)
Yeh , I'm glad it was worth the bump guyz ... I couldn't resist the 'Irony'.
I was just searching around to try and figure out just how many huge CWE mega-threads there actually were around here , lol , and clicking on other Codeine related topics along the way ... I always read threads about Tinnitus as it's so close to my heart (or "head" to be precise). I'm glad I clicked on this obscurely titled thread , I've long believed that so much of that APAP crap while growing up has affected my health in various negative ways ... It's amazing I can still drink so much 8)

Speaking of the Tinnitus threads ... I've noticed a few around here over the weeks ... and this relates to what you guyz were just saying above as the Title is Exactly This : "Codeine Gave Me Tinnitus!" - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=507001&highlight=tinnitus
I mean he goes onto wording the OP differently though and actually states that he wonders if it was because he didn't bother to CWE 6-7 painkiller tabs ... sheesh! ... thankfully there are some well considered replies and it's mentioned pretty quickly that too much APAP can cause Tinnitus.

So there ya go ... people should really watch how they word their titles I suppose ... the above title is totally blunt and innacurate even if it is quickly resolved therein. I'm sure the OP didn't mean it but it seems that many may be mistaking this side-effect as one from the Codeine whilst not considering the APAP so a title like that just sorta perpetuates the idea ... I know I've seen it before but apon a glance of the title I would (and have) just remembered it as "some people get bad tinnitus from Codeine" , and I should know better as I'd already read it. :\ well , at least I DO know better now.

On a another note ... I'm not to say that Codeine/Opiates and other drugs don't have an effect or even possibly cause tinnitus ... In my experiences different substances have different effects on the rate and severity of the problem ... as this is one of the primary reasons I've long self-medicated. I know that for me , most drugs , most of the time are beneficial for it ... but mainly as an 'escape' or distraction I think. Nevertheless , if it makes you feel better then it's therapeutic imo. Sometimes it can be worsened with the onset of some drugs but only for a breif period ... not much of a bother as once your 'on the level' it becomes very easy to forget there even is a constant annoying loud high pitch buzz (amongst other sounds/signals) ... It is possible also in some drug induced states to maybe start concentrating on it too much to the point of irritation but this depends on the person , their mental state and their experience with whatever substances imho , rather than the substances themselves. :)

Anyhoo, I sure can go on sometimes ... plz excuse I've been up all night crook with the flu (ears are copping it) ... therefore , i'm high as a kite ofc. =D
I should have slept but had a benzo rush that wouldn't let me stop so I decided to push thru ... felt so terrible today and tired too , but actually did a CWE a few hours ago (~120mg) and oh maaan! ... I don't know why I waited so long ... I really thought it might just put me straight to sleep and essentially be a waste ... but no , I feel about 100 times better than this morning. %)
Aches and pains and muscles relaxed , headache gone , earache gone , clenching teeth/Stress ... is lessened and It even cleared up my dripping nose completely :D

I agree Psilo that there will be no Codeine only tabs and the potential for abuse would possibly be greater but in reality this is good medicine and Should be available to people who can benefit from it. The APAP to me is like the Methanol and crap they add to Methylated spirits ... purely a poison to stop people from 'easily' being able to feel good. Sure the Acet can maybe reduce a fever in babies and the like (and that's about all it's good for) , but so can the codeine ... in a superior manner and with much less toxicity.
It also reminds me of the parallels with Cannabis Prohibition ... as in people can benefit medicinally from it in it's natural state which entails the natural associated high along with the therapeutic value ... but "They" can't figure out a way to synthesize a profitable product that actually works without the associated good feelings/high ... and so it remains prohibited even for the proven positive medical effects it's known to help , possibly even cure.

It's a fucked up world we are living in , we basically 'sign up' as slaves , pay to be poisoned and the more we are made to 'follow the rules' ... the more freedoms and enjoyments are stripped away from us.
I tells ya ... It's enough to make one resort to drugs just to escape the drudgery of modern slavery , ahem ... I mean : society , isn't it. ;) heheheh

Cheers and stay well.
 
Hi, upside-down folks :)

Just followed a linky posted in EADD as we have apparently had a recent law past also restricting the sale of codeine products. Just posting here to mention that I personally have permanent tinnitus that was almost undoubtedly caused by the use of codeine and codeine alone - have never done a CWE as I am prescribed straight codeine phosphate tablets and have abused them for years. It's not exactly life threatening or owt but it truly is an annoyance :|
 
^ Hey Shambles, not doubting your or anything but how are you sure the tinnitus was caused by codeine and not other drugs as well?

I can't find much solid information on just codeine causing tinnitus, probably because the drugs it is combined with are a bigger problem but maybe codeine can cause this in rare cases.

Also, how does everyone know the tinnitus is not a side effect of listening to excessively loud music or other loud noise sources? I no longer go out without ear plugs due to wanting to save my hearing, and I know too many people who use those crappy ear bud headphones and crank them all the way up.
 
i could have sworn i posted in here last night mentioning you, shambles:\ maybe i feel asleep or something or dreamt it. meh, nevermind, rather hear it from the horses mouth:)
 
Mr Blonde: You are right that it is just anecdotal and I'm buggered if I can find any references today. When I was researching it initially (after my doctor told me that codeine was the most likely cause) I found quite a bit of stuff that mentioned tinnitus as a rare but possible side-effect of codeine use. Seemed to be reliable sources of information too but can I find them now? Of course not 8)

Other factors are of course possible but I have never used products containing paracetamol, aspirin, ibuprofen or whatever as I've been prescribed straight codeine phosphate pills for many years so never needed to. At the time of my heaviest use I was using up to 1g IV (I had no idea of the dangers at the time - don't try that at home, kiddies) several times a day and I suspect such heavy (and extremely dodgy) use may well have been a factor.

Had no problems with my hearing before the codeine, it started within 2-3 months of starting on it and has never gone away. That's over ten years now. At the time it became a problem I barely left the house much less go out to gigs, clubs, parties etc so I don't think loud music was a likely cause. In fact nothing stands out as being a likely cause other than the codeine use.

As mentioned, this is entirely anecdotal but my doctor also says that codeine was probably the cause and I just got unlucky. Wish I could dig up those studies and stuff - if I come across them I'll post them for you, naturally.

PS: After further investigation it appears there hasn't actually been a change in the UK law. You codeine fans should come over here. Y'all could be bartenders or summat ;)
 
^ My girlfriend loves the UK, maybe a move could be on the books. :D

I hate it as well when I know I've seen a source on something and can't dig it up again, I wish I had saved every drug related article I'd ever read!

That is very heavy use indeed, perhaps the IV played a part in it somehow as well....

May I ask Shambles, though this is off-topic, how was the histamine reaction when you IV'd codeine? Did you build up quite a tolerance beforehand I imagine?

I would like to warn anyone reading this who is unaware that IV codeine is potentially fatal due to the intense histamine reaction it triggers. Stay safe. :)
 
mmm pulmonary edema :D;)

i've always found peoples recants of IV codeine extremely interesting and must say i'd be lying if i've never thought about IVing the pure tablets i get prescribed from time to time but the negatives(possible death) far outweigh the positives:)
 
I must admit I always enjoyed the histamine "rush", Mr B. A bit like how some love the pins and needles of a morphine rush I suppose only way more intense. I did often end up absolutely shredding myself from scratching (legs were always the worst for some reason) once the initial rush died down and settled into more common or garden insane itchiness territory. It is a hell of a rush (if you like that kinda thing - most really wouldn't, I suspect) but I was horrified when I found out how ridiculously dangerous it was. Bear in mind this was years before I had access to the intertubez and the rather useful and potentially life-saving advice therein - I had no idea that IVing pills was dangerous even 8) - and I actually started abusing them just by snorting 60mg which got me buzzing nicely. And yes, despite what many say snorting straight codeine definitely does work - certainly if you have zero tolerance.

Was a rather different person back then and have learnt a thing or two since thankfully. It still amazes me that I got away with nothing worse than tinnitus and it's quite possible that such heavy and extremely risky use may well have had a lot to do with it. Would still have been the codeine that done the deed but fortunately such stupidity is probably very rare. Doctor had no idea about the IV use though and still put the blame fairly squarely at the feet of what he thought was standard, therapeutic use and I doubt he just pulled that out his arse. Of course what he learned at med school may have been not totally accurate either but presume it was based on some kinda evidence and research.
 
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