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Cycles of Use/Abuse

Leprechaun

Leprechaun

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Joined
Mar 12, 2000
Messages
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Vic Australia
Hugs & Drugs said:
:(
thanks for that, sorry im a bit of a chemical n00b
haha

however, im not surprised in the least
dont get me wrong, i love australia
but mann, don't our authorities have something better to do than cap our fun...

if only people had the right to use and possess chemicals for personal use
giving people self-freedom :O
a ludacris thought i know, no one should have the right to choose what goes into their own bodies
haha :\
Click to expand...

I hate to say this, however this type of fun is highly regulated for a reason. Every activity that has an element of danger associated with it needs to be controlled and regulated. The reason ingestion of drugs in particular is a taboo is that society does not see a practical application for its use. There is minimal industry and high reinforcement.

For example, jumping out of a plane is dangerous. However it is a tourist attraction, provides large scale manufacturing and safety jobs along with many other "practical institutions".

Taking drugs out of a controlled environment is high risk with little return, it also short cuts reinforcing mechanisms to go for the simple re-application of the utility that provides reinforcement.

Medicine takes the respective argument and puts into a practical framework, whereby the taking of the drug is for a particular reason. Upon the resulting effect there is no further necessity to continue taking it. There is too much of a buffer to continue reinforcing effects and there are safety nets for dealing with such.

If you really like 3-FMC and what to try it. Go and get an Importing Authorization from the TGA. Otherwise, you do not want to try it enough. Hence the buffers and red-tape.

Fifty years ago there was free access to meth-amphetamine in Japan. Would you like know what happened? There was pandemic levels of use which caused a massive strain of the populace, in terms of health and wellbeing of the nation. Would you categorize a country in such a state, fun? If so, you should be involved in the mexican drug trade.

If you really are interested in procuring and researching esoteric compounds, there are channels to doing so. Obtaining a license for research into dangerous drugs is not very expensive. However, I would suggest a close network of University research contacts in Australia and the USA and probably a PhD thesis on the subject from where you can justify acquiring license.

I wish you all the best in exploring 3-FMC. I am sure it would prove theraputic and useful in some context yet undefined. I'll jump off that soap box now.
 
Jakeperson said:
Which varies from person to persons beliefs. If I thought that I doubt I would use drugs at all.
Click to expand...

That's the same thing I said. Until I noticed a pattern emerging within the circles of drug experimentation outside of practical theraputic environments. This pattern is as follows.

Curiosity->Alcohol->Marijuana->Psychedelics->MDMA->Heroin->Amphetmines

Psychedelics and Marijuana are not particularly physically reinforcing.
Heroin and Amphetamines are.

Normally, a value system or community group can evaluate a scenario and see it as something that provides little or no practical value, also the opposite is true. Heroin and Amphetamine short cut reward systems into tight loops of reward seeking behavior because they are self reinforcing.

Unless your applying the medicine in a practical environment you either leave the loop out of an understanding of the long term implications of short cut reinforcing behavior or you continue the downward spiral.

At which point you realize the short cut is a self reinforcing downward spiral of your mental and physical health, with no long term or practical application. Hence you cease that activity.

You then move on to either apply your knowledge into a practical long term environment or die. I know people who have done both.

Novelty is a wonderful thing. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I believe we people here, all share at least one common trait, a penchant for novel entertainment. :)
 
"Those who play at the edge of what's possible, who pursue novelty, are the ones who push the envelope of consciousness evolution."

This is so off topic but very interesting topic.

Is that cycle of what has happened or what they would like?
For me it has been Curiosity->Alcohol->Marijuana->MDMA->Amphetmines->Psychedelics->(Heroin) I am yet to try heroin. I have tried other opiates but I find them boring.

At the age of 10-12 my desire was Curiosity->Alcohol->Psychedelics->(Marijuana, as a maybe)

"Normally, a value system or community group can evaluate a scenario and see it as something that provides little or no practical value, also the opposite is true."
Shouldn't we let the individual make that decision because a community group is always going to leave some dissatisfied with the overall decision.
 
Personally i have found something i am happy with with mdma (when its the real stuff) and i just take that, when i cant get hold of decent pills. i may try acid/psychs in the future but at this stage have no desire to move on to opiates as they are not my thing
 
Could the mods maybe make this into a new thread about cycles of abuse. Would be an interesting topic as I doubt there isn't any one here who can say they have never abused at least one drug once.
 
Leprechaun said:
That's the same thing I said. Until I noticed a pattern emerging within the circles of drug experimentation outside of practical theraputic environments. This pattern is as follows.

Curiosity->Alcohol->Marijuana->Psychedelics->MDMA->Heroin->Amphetmines

Psychedelics and Marijuana are not particularly physically reinforcing.
Heroin and Amphetamines are.
Click to expand...

Uh, you're completely wrong. Marijuana is far more "physically reinforcing" than amphetamine. Cannabinoid agonists cause a cascade effect and results in modulation of the opioid system. They're physically addictive on some level.

Amphetamine on the other hand, is like psychedelics. There isn't any real physical dependence that can result.

And your pattern is weird. That may be what you have experienced, but many people try amphetamines before marijuana, psychedelics, or heroin. Amphetamine is dispensed to children from 1st grade on, and they share their pills with their classmates all throughout school, way before most kids have access to marijuana.
 
This is my post preparing for the mods to throw this into a new thread! Apologies if I've made more work for a poor tireless mod

I've found my pattern of experimentation (not necessarily abuse) to be

Curiosity->Marijuana->MDMA->Psychedelics->Alcohol->Opiates

I'd be interested to hear what others' use patterns have been!
 
i think there are so many factors involved in drug use and abuse
people get into the drug culture for so many reasons

my pattern of use has also been quite similar
curiosity -> alcohol -> marijuana -> mdma -> psychedelics
but i know that i would have stopped at mdma if good pills had continued to be available
which then brings me to my next point - would legalising drugs *decrease* drug abuse?

i believe that whether a person will indulge in drugs or not is decided at birth
people who really want to try these things will, and people who dont will not
i know that people sometimes dont have the self control with certain things, but that is merely another life lesson

"protecting" people from themselves isnt really going to prove anything
maybe in short term, but certainly not in long term

a major factor in drug abuse is quite possibly, education
people may conjure a mindset of "well its all bad anyway, i guess its all or nothing"
i know i have felt this way at least once in my life...

backyard meth labs vs sterile, quality guaranteed labs... is the current situation really harm reduction?
 
i tried to change the thread name
but it doesn't seem possible unless im a mod
although it could just be that im a n00b
haha

any mods; if you feel inclined, please re-name the thread to "Cycles of (Ab)use"?
(or something equally fitting)
thankyouu
 
It may pay to state use or abuse, in which case:

Curiosity > Caffeine (use) > Tobacco (experimental use, then stopped forever) > Alcohol (long term abuse) > Cannabis (use) > Natural psychedelics (use) > Benzos (experimental use) > Synthetic psychedelics (use) > Caffeine (abuse) > MDMA (use) > Cocaine (experimental use) Kratom (abuse) > Kava (use bordering on abuse) Cannabis (use bordering on abuse) > Finally balanced, healthy use of all substances (other than tobacco that is no longer used, Caffeine which is still abused) / age related moderation.
 
all mine have been use
except in the case of marijuana; which was abuse for ~half a year
now, i only use it to *increase* a high rather than get high
(and even in those cases, i use it infrequently)

i find that moderation is the key
drugs lose their magic if abused too much
:)
 
Hugs & Drugs said:
i believe that whether a person will indulge in drugs or not is decided at birth
Click to expand...

I must say I disagree, I'd say it has more to do with regular environment, upbringing (technically conditioning) and opportunity.

Not sure it's realistic to say it's something that is decided at birth
 
i get where you're coming from, but i mean more in a psychological sense
some people will be more curious about things than others, from any age

i believe other factors, such as environment and upbringing do play a big role, the way a person thinks and acts (that are defined at birth) are a major contributer

however, i could be wrong
i guess thats just how i see it in my eyes...
 
Hugs & Drugs said:
i get where you're coming from, but i mean more in a psychological sense
some people will be more curious about things than others, from any age

i believe other factors, such as environment and upbringing do play a big role, the way a person thinks and acts (that are defined at birth) are a major contributer

however, i could be wrong
i guess thats just how i see it in my eyes...
Click to expand...

I do understand what you mean though, some people just enjoy changing their consciousness to experiment with their bodies. Others completely hate the notion. So I understand what you mean in this capacity :)

ps - Thanks PD!
 
It's interesting, I myself went the usual Alcohol-->Tobacco-->Marijuana-->Ecstasy-->Psychedelics(just experimenting at this stage) and i have no intention going near opiates or amps.

However, I have a a friend who has never smoked, dislikes drinking and has only done so to see what is like and he is now using psyches. Needless to say he is one of my smarter mates.

The majority of my other friends went Alcohol-->Tobacco-->Marijuana and for now have stopped at that with the occasional pill here or there. Whenever i suggest other drugs they never seem interested. Go figure.

I think it may also pay to look at what the real gateway drug is here.
 
my cycle was weird.
Alcohol>curiosity(of everything else, yeah i drank before i was curios) >Cannabis >Tobacco> MDMA> Psy's> Speed> RC's

My curiosity has ended and im in love with mari(juana) and psy's(LSD, Psilocyn, DMT and very special K). I will always have an alcohol problem and I wont touch opium coz I know i'm just a junky waiting to happen.
 
^ I'm similar.

I've sampled a fair bit of stuff but I'm landing on good ol' cannabis and psilocyn/LSD. Stims are not good for the mind, however I find the psychoactives I've listed tend to be.

Oh, and when I put opiates, it was more of a curiosity thing than abuse. I used a few times and probably won't again. To be honest I prefer cannabis :\ who wants to scratch themselves til they bleed?
 
May as well throw mine in there:
Curiosity->Alcohol->Cannabis->MDMA->Crack->Acid->Cocaine->Tobacco->Opiates (Codeine)

I'm interested as to why some people started right off the bat into Cannabis and MDMA before they had tried Alcohol, it feels like an odd order to me.

The crack/cocaine were once offs, and the codeine was a good three times before I decided it wasn't worth it.

Besides that I found myself in a 6 week period where it would be a couple of pills every weekend, sometimes friday and saturday. I'm pretty fortunate my first brush with crack was beyond horrible, and I didn't take it up recreationally
 
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