• REAGENT TESTING & DRUG CHECKING Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Featured Link 1 Featured Link 2
  • RT&DC Moderators: Senior Staff

What happened to the REAL scene and Why?

A

ascend337

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
42
Location
Bayou State
What happened to the REAL scene and Why? I was first introduced to the underground club scene and the wonderful experiences of MDMA back in 1988. Over the years, there has been a consistent decline in quantity (ostensibly for reasons of law enforcement and Federal conspiracy statutes, I'm sure) and quality. Now, the quantities issue I can at least wrap my mind around reasonably for the reason stated above, but the quality issue is one I can not figure. Why waste time, money, and efforts producing and distributing fake pills? 1) you would get into the same amount and level of trouble you would if the pills were real. 2) if you produced really good pills and distributed them, you would foster customer loyalty. 3) you would promote the overall scene itself. Dealers of crap pills do a major injustice to the scene overall and based on their selfish profit motive it is evident they really could care less about the scene, the people in it, or their own safety and freedom. Seems to me normal business ethics and operations would be the best fit if one were inclined to produce and/or distribute pills. Yes, we can all protect ourselves with test kits (and I have a good 3 test kit), but the issue is why the need for the kits at all? It never used to be that way and should not be that way now. Too bad its not legal where I am at anymore (BIG BROTHER SAYS I CAN'T HAVE IT, but its okay for me to buy ciggarettes and smoke myself to a cancer death!). Any thoughts on this?
 
In your day the scene in America was not nearly as exposed, so it didn't attract so many people from less friendly and more desperate drug cultures to prey on ravers. Why distribute fake pills? I assume it's often because the sellers can't get real pills for lots of reasons, they need income to fund their drug habits, and it's easier to counterfeit pills than most other popular high-profit drugs - plus, since it takes longer for MDMA to kick in they have more time to make their getaway. In other words, it's relatively easy and none of the advantages to selling the genuine article you listed apply to them.
 
in melbourne , ice killed our scene , used to be a happy scene , now it just crime and whatnot

well thats just bubble for ya
 
Heck, it's nearly illegal to even speak the word "rave" here anymore, much less market a party with that word in the name/title. Our beloved US Gvt. has the all-encompassing Rave Act to generally prohibit "scene" events.... and in all effect stymies legitimate advances in the trance, house, etc scene here. Younger people these days don't know what it is like anymore to experience a real rave event. That's sad, in my opnion. It can be a rewarding life-long memory that was shared with others of like-mind. Another way the US Gvt and local and state governments have combatted the "scene" is prohibiting after-hours clubs. So basically, any bar or club that wants to stay open after 2A.M. is automatically assumed by government officials as having the only reason being the promotion of the use of drugs and crime. Again, sad.
 
You answered your own question with ^^^ comment, ascend337. The RAVE Act changed the scene forever. :(

As far as why the pressers don't make pure pills anymore? It all comes down to money, always has, always will. Think of it like this, for example: if you can make $1.00 profit off something that costs .01 or .25, which one are you going to choose? I have seldom met a dealer who gave a damn about what the ingredients of their wares were, only that they made a profit. Supply and demand.

Also, you would get into a lot less trouble (in the USA) if you were busted for piperazine pills vs. clean MDxx. AFAIK, piperazines are not scheduled (yet!) here. Even a small amount of pills (for example, 10 where I live) will get you a possession with intent to distribute charge, which is not a misdemeanor. We're talking federal prison. :(

I wish for the old days as well, but I fear those are long gone, and will never be seen again.
 
Also, you would get into a lot less trouble (in the USA) if you were busted for piperazine pills vs. clean MDxx. AFAIK, piperazines are not scheduled (yet!) here.
Click to expand...

You are very wrong in your information regarding US laws of pipes. I have worked as a paralegal since 1996 and the law firm I work at does 90% of its work in Federal criminal law.

BZP has been scheduled as Schedule I since 2002 by emergency order and confirmed in action of March 18, 2004 as is currently assigned the permanent DEA# 7493:

N-BENZYLPIPERAZINE (BZP) 09-08-03 03-18-04 69 FR 12794 3/18/2004 I
N-BENZYLPIPERAZINE (BZP) * 09-20-02 67 FR 59161 9/20/2002 I
N-BENZYLPIPERAZINE (BZP) ** 09-10-03 68 FR 53289 9/20/2003 I

However, TFMPP was coincidentally scheduled as Schedule I with BZP in 2002, but removed March 19, 2004 and is currently still legal in the US.

1-(3-TRIFLUOROMETHYLPHENYL)PIPERAZINE (TFMPP) 09-08-03 03-18-04 69 FR 12794 3/19/2004 I --> 0
1-(3-TRIFLUOROMETHYLPHENYL)PIPERAZINE (TFMPP) * 09-20-02 67 FR 59161 9/20/2002 I
1-(3-TRIFLUOROMETHYLPHENYL)PIPERAZINE (TFMPP) ** 09-10-03 68 FR 53289 9/20/2003 I

To get around any non-scheduling though for other pipes analougues, Federal and State law enforcement rely on the laws related to possession, possession with intent to distribute, and distribution of counterfeit drugs, which for the most part have the SAME penalities as the real deal....

Don't believe that? Get busted dealing 100 pills of TFMPP to a DEA agent and see if you don't go to jail and stay there for an extended vacation. Seen it happen a ton of times. Unfortunately, they treat unscheduled drugs being sold as the "real" thing the same as if it were the real thing.

Anyways, not chomping down on you, but I believe it best to have the right information. Source: http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/index.html Click on the Scheduling Actions > Alphabetical Order for the complete list of actions for both.... or click on Controlled Substances > Alphabetical Order to see the permanency of BZP.
 
As for the costs of production, I would gladly pay (as would a ton of people I know) $20 or more for each pill if the real deal and potent. If they are real and potent, you would only need to eat 1. Instead, we have to buy at least 2 or more likely up to 5 to eat in one night when they are at least real. So, even at $10 each, we are currently spending $20 to $50 for a rolling night anyways. So, have 'em incur more production cost per pill, raise the wholesale rates to cover the profit difference, end users will pay more, but get potent pills.... then everybody is happy. That's just a common sense approach to any business.
 
imagine how embarassing it must be for the dealers that are unaware that theyr pills are bunk to get arrested and hav a cop say "your pills are fake man"
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me ascend, I am not in the legal profession whatsoever, nor do I wish to be part of it. :) Perhaps I was not specific enough when I said piperazines, since as you mention, not all piperazines (such as TFMPP) are illegal.

You should visit our Legal Discussion forum, I am sure they would love to have your expertise over there. :)
 
...and to the OP- those in power wouldn't want us all getting together and loving each other, then looking around at them and seeing what they do with that power...so it is in their interests to flood the market with crap, creating further frustration and confusion amongst us lesser mortals. It's just another one of their distraction techniques...wars / recessions / climate change / corruption etc etc....as long as we live in fear and are distracted, we won't notice what they are doing and will remain subservient .

Is it still paranoia when they really are out to get you ?

;)

cheers,
Dave
- here's to the good ol' days
x
 
I think most pills aren't completely bunk. They're just REALLY watered down. Putting less MDMA in them allows the manufacturers to stretch their product and make more money.

The real issue though is user demand. The "scene" has mostly become a bunch of young, uneducated (in the drug sense) kids who don't know the difference. I can't tell you how many times I've seen kids eat nothing but pure pipe bombs and then be telling everyone how they're "rolling balls man!"

As long as the consumer doesn't put up a fuss, then the manufacturers will continue to make shitty product. If everyone started testing pills and abstaining if they weren't high-level MDMA pills, then the market would correct itself and we'd see better shit on the street. Since most people are dumb and will take whatever is sold, the status quo of bad pills is here to stay.

Sucks, but that's the way it is.
 
I can't comment on the good old days, but I do know good business. I understand profit margins, but who cares if you can make even a 50% better profit if your customers stop doing business with you after transaction #1?

That being said I think kids today don't know understand drugs nor do they have any interest in understanding them, they just want to do them. Lots of people i've met I tell them about BL or erowid. All of them are semi-regular drug users outside of cannabis use, only 1 of them took the time to visit and the only reason he did so was to cite references for a research paper. I've done E a total of 10 times. The first 8 of which were bunk, I just kept hoping and hoping I'd get the real thing. The people I got the first 8 batches off of were all regular club kids who assured me these pills were the shit! I took 3 pills that one of the people said 1 pill of which had him seeing trails they were so good, I felt absolutely nothing and went to sleep ~3 hours after ingestion. Finally I got 2 pills of my trusted friend who has zero interest in the club scene. Since I trusted him I ate 1/2 pill and rolled. The next weekend I ate 1 1/2 and had a BLAST!

Moral of the story, everytime I bought off of one of the bunk kids I tried a different person, first sale was the last. The next time my friend grabs some i'm gonna stock up.
 
experience89 said:
The next time my friend grabs some i'm gonna stock up.
Click to expand...

Sadly, these days, that's all we can do. Good real pills come around where I am at maybe three times a year. We have to grab as many as we can and horde 'em (and that can be legally very dangerous), because they sell out real quick.... then comes the after-flood of freakin pipes (and even pills with someother crap). I agree with the guy above, though... not all pills are bad, but I do believe at least in my region.... there are way more crap pills than good pills say 75% crap 25% real and decent.

To Ravenous Blond, I will check out the Legal Discussion forum per your reference.
 
apparently even we used to have a scene once....before it go taken over by douchbags
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top