So who likes benzos? El Benzo Threado Spectacularrrr 2nd Edition

[puckboy]

^
2mg xanax = 2mg xanax... there is no difference. If your feeling a difference, they're either not the dose your being told they are or it's a placebo effect.

 

[leiphos]

I was put on temazepam and other benzos long-term (over a year) solely for sleep issues. my doctor was kind of liberal w/ prescriptions. tho poor sleep habits are pretty dibilitating. I definitely over-complained.

 

[Luude]

Im about to run out of Xanax and i still have a month before i should be going back for another script. What are my options when i go to the doc? Can they prescribe them to me regardless of me being early.

I'm legitamately about to run out, so i doubt a doc would say no considering the health risks with ceasing benzo use abruptly.

 

[tyrael]

I'm legitamately about to run out, so i doubt a doc would say no considering the health risks with ceasing benzo use abruptly.

Isn't that your answer? Worst that will happen, he'll say no. If your doctor knows you, knows your addiction then it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[the red shark]

ugly- when i first went up to 2mg bars they did feel stronger than taking two footballs.. can only put it down to it being released/metabolized quicker so the effect is greater...

Luude - depends how early you are and trust with doc? If you getting authority approved, sometimes if close enough all good. If nowhere near due new script, your doc can write a private one, if he believes you...

 

[Jabberwocky]

know better than what? to have differing opinions. he asked a question and i gave him my honest opinion. so what if i'm a mod? that doesn't mean i can't have differing opinions.

i haven't seen any reported posts from anyone in here?

Im about to run out of Xanax and i still have a month before i should be going back for another script. What are my options when i go to the doc? Can they prescribe them to me regardless of me being early.

I'm legitamately about to run out, so i doubt a doc would say no considering the health risks with ceasing benzo use abruptly.

that's called dr shopping, how to scam your doctor, whatever you wanna call it. i'll report it now since i forgot last

how can you legitimately run out a month early? riddle me that?

if he legitimately ran out early he could go to his doctor and get refilled without having to ask an internet forum. his doctor knows the answer, not us.

 

[puckboy]

^
I think what Jakeperson was getting at was that Luude referred to you as "a degenerate opiate addict" which is just childish and stupid and you replied by saying "atleast I'm not physically or psychologically addicted to benzos". Kinda sounded like 2 kids in the schoolyard y'know?... both comments could have also offended other addicts of both types of drugs as theres a bunch of other people reading these boards too remember.

Having said that, the advice you gave him, leftwing was completely correct IMO. So listen to him Luude because he knows what he's talking about when it comes to benzos. Infact if you are abusing xanax, Luude you are treading a fine line before things can get out of control, not after a couple of months though. But it isn't a good sign and could send you down a path of pain and hell you've yet to experience from drugs I'd guess.

I'm a hypocrite in saying this because I used to regularly (around a year ago) and very occasionally at the moment abuse my valium. But if theres any advice I can give regarding benzos is to follow you doctors intructions and DO NOT abuse them, because that's when some major issues can pop up. You won't be running out early either. High doses fuck up your tolerance and will make them less effective, increase your dependance tenfold making w/ds all the more worse.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^
I think what Jakeperson was getting at was that Luude referred to you as "a degenerate opiate addict" which is just childish and stupid and you replied by saying "atleast I'm not physically or psychologically addicted to benzos". Kinda sounded like 2 kids in the schoolyard y'know?... both comments could have also offended other addicts of both types of drugs as theres a bunch of other people reading these boards too remember.

that's the whole irony of it all, us both being addicts having a go at each other. but yeah you guys are right, i need to learn to just keep my mouth shut on some things. i apologise for taking it off topic.

 

[justsayknow]

they were my DOC for a while there. at one stage i was getting a box of valium from my doctor every week as well as using more on top of that (temazepam and xanax). instead of mixing benzos with my opiates it was opiates sprinkled on top of a valium dose for me. i didnt realise at the time when i was getting clean but after some reflection on it, PAWS hung around for a good couple months after getting fully clean. my tolerance is significantly lower now, as in i can take 20mg of valium and be pretty happy instead of using 4-5times that much.

Just curious. How long did it take for your tolerance to go down?

Do you think that after repeated periods of use that your tolerance will ever return to that of a naive user?

 

[Jabberwocky]

it's taken a year to get my tolerance back down, a year or sporadic use with no more than a couple days use here and there every couple months sorta deal.

it's possible it could return to that of a naive user but even if it did, it wouldn't take long (i'm talking short term, couple weeks) to start rising again, as it has already since starting back on valium.

 

[puckboy]

^
I agree, I've been addicted to benzos before and huge doses will do fuck all when your in the midst of the addiction. For example, you could take your entire script (lets say 50x 5mg diazepam tablets) and you wouldn't even feel a 'high'. Yes, you would be completely anxiety free and somewhat relaxed, but overall you are nowhere near that feeling of contentment that benzos used to give you before becoming addicted and/or were using daily for a long time. You're a million miles away from how you used to feel from simply 10-15mg diazepam.

Benzo tolerances work in a strange way and are permanent for the most part only if you've been addicted to them and abused them in the past for an extended period of time. I'm talking about daily use though, I used benzos for a couple years before the daily use began and in those few prior years my tolerance never sky-rocketed and I would always get nice and satisfied from normal doses (not stupidly high doses).

Taking a break certainly reduces your tolerance a bit, I was 100% clean of benzos after getting over that addiction I referred to earlier in this post for close to a year. And like leftwing said, the first several times you may take benzos again after the break, it will definitely feel stronger, though not like before you ever used benzos, nowhere near that. And as leftwing also stated your tolerance spikes straight back up to where it was the year prior very quickly.

I'm not entirely sure why benzos work this way as almost every other drug I can think of will drop in tolerance even after heavy/daily use and addiction if you take a decent break. I have a feeling it is something to do with the way the GABA receptors function.

I've taken this quote from another thread about benzo/alcohol w/d in OD;

GABA is a receptor that controls various systems or traits in our body. When tolerance to a benzo grows, your body is creating more receptor sites. Our bodies wern't designed to have drugs introduces into our body, thus fighting back by creating more receptors. When you have a certain amount of GABA receptors in the brain, and body is refused the drug, basically your body can't possibly naturally produce enough GABA agonism

So my feeling is that because you've abused and or been addicted to benzos, your brain has too many GABA receptors which can't be filled from doses of benzos that would have normally have you feeling great. And perhaps the receptors hang around longer then we think causing your benzo tolerance to never go down properly. Other drugs would also effect them, primarily alcohol. It's all just speculation, I'm no expert at all.

Edit: Benzos are subtle in the way they develop their powerful physical/mental addiction upon you.

One more thing... fuck benzos, I hate what they've done to me, all because I had/have some anxiety issues ugh. Be careful with them

 

[justsayknow]

^

Benzo tolerances work in a strange way and are permanent for the most part only if you've been addicted to them and abused them in the past for an extended period of time.

Benzos are subtle in the way they develop their powerful physical/mental addiction upon you.

One more thing... fuck benzos, I hate what they've done to me, all because I had/have some anxiety issues ugh. Be careful with them

Yeah I definitely intend to be careful. Ive seen people experiencing withdrawals and people on huge binges with them. Neither are pretty.

I just want to make sure I don't end up there. I can see the diminishing rewards thing happening so its clearly time for a break.

 

[chdza]

what do you guys think of Clonazepam? more for recreation.

 

[Jabberwocky]

here's something from djsim that helps explain re-developing tolerance

Addiction progresses because of the acton of drugs on dopaminergic neural pathways which are normally associated with learning. Activation of these DA-ergic pathways has 2 physiological functions (from Kalivas 200:
1. to facilitate initial learning of adaptive responding to important stimuli
2. to cue the retrieval of the information needed to execute the adaptive behavioral response when environmental circumstances predict that food is imminent

What this means is DA is released only when a behavior is being learned, or a learned behaviour needs to be 'cued' from environmental triggers. Think of it this way; we all eat pretty much at the same time every day out of habit (a cue by the time of day). But now think of when you're really hungry... eating feels great because DA has been released to reinforce the fact that we must eat to live. In other words, DA is not often released under everyday conditions.

But because drugs of addiction activate DA pathways every time, and do so very efficiently, use of these drugs essentially hijacks the learning systems we have to its own ends so that now the brain has learned that boiling water in a spoon then filtering and injecting is a very important stimuli; why? Because copious amounts of DA were released.

So how does this all fit in I'm sure you're wondering...?
My point is that repeated dosing is the problem for addiction, NOT physical addiction to a substance. If it were about the physical WDs then people would easily be able to detox from H w/ an ultra-rapid naltrexone detox, not would coke/amphetamine/etc be addictive. So clearly the issue is your brain learning to like the act of getting high.

Whilst time off for a few weeks won't be able to disrupt this learning process there is a way which should work... make your drug use so unpredictable and widely spaced that your brain can make no predictions. So if you always dose every third weekend, change that so your brain doesn't start learning to associate weekends with good feelings, b/c from there it's not much of a stretch for your brain to justify more frequent use.

 

[MrIbis]

for all who are uninformed, if you ever use phenazepam - do so with much caution.

 

[justsayknow]

what do you guys think of Clonazepam? more for recreation.

I used them a couple of times to reduce anxiety for public speaking. It worked well for that. I think I had about 2mg. It was a few years ago now. I think I felt pretty good as well. In reality it probably made me a little bit too at ease...

 

[Jakeperson]

for all who are uninformed, if you ever use phenazepam - do so with much caution.

Shouldn't we use all drugs with caution


Any particular reason for this one?

I know eyeballing would be very dangerous and could easily lead to a few days of unconsciousness.

 

[tyrael]

My point is that repeated dosing is the problem for addiction, NOT physical addiction to a substance.

While I'm sure djsim is a very learned person (no sarcasim intended!!) by that logic one being a meth addict could go through the entire process of cooking, say a saline solution, inject that and have no withdrawal?

While I agree with what he's saying, I don't think you can say with absolute that dosing is the problem.

 

[Jabberwocky]

While I'm sure djsim is a very learned person (no sarcasim intended!!) by that logic one being a meth addict could go through the entire process of cooking, say a saline solution, inject that and have no withdrawal?

sure, it killed cravings for me...all for about 15mins. it's not a healthy way to go about killing meth cravings but it does work, albeit very short term.

you'll find a lot of people with a needle fixation have practiced shooting saline in times when they've been without their DOC, all just to kill needle cravings, not necessarily cravings to the drug.

but that's neither here nor there

Any particular reason for this one?

I know eyeballing would be very dangerous and could easily lead to a few days of unconsciousness.

you answered your own question, people blindly eye balling dosing drugs that are psychoactive in the micrograms (fentanyl is another example). heres a link to a method mariposa uses to dissolve phenazepam into propyl glycol. i think negrogesic or rangrz has typed up another way to dose it, but i think it's in ADD if you wanna search.

I dissolved 100 mg phenazepam in 100 ml food grade/USP propylene glycol. I agitated the container well and let it sit overnight, and I agitate it every time I take something out.

I then take a 1 ml calibrated plastic dropper (purchased for $1.50 at Walgreens) and measure .5 or 1 ml. You could also use a needleless syringe.

Alprazolam and clonazepam powder can theoretically be dissolved and dosed in just this way.

Propylene glycol is safe for consumption at this level, it's in loads of things, but please be sure to order USP/food grade. I do not IV anything, so if someone would verify this it'd be great, but in theory this solution combined with a little ethanol and saline would be "safe" to shoot. Please do not try to shoot this without consulting someone more experienced than I.

No degradation of potency of the drug whatsoever. This experiment was also perfectly legal where I live.

 

[tyrael]

sure, it killed cravings for me...all for about 15mins. it's not a healthy way to go about killing meth cravings but it does work,

Excellent. So all those IV/IM addicts, regardless of drug can just cold turkey stop and just inject saline. Addiction problem solved.