Stimulants Has anyone been able to visualize 4-dimensional objects while on amphetamines?

[bupropion]

Has anyone been able to visualize 4-dimensional objects while on amphetamines? I felt like I could almost visualize the hypercube or 4-simplex in very brief glimpses when I was taking Benzedrex regularly (I've had some of the same phenomenon recently too even though I haven't been taking it). What drugs would be most helpful for attempting this and what doses? Also what other procedures would you suggest employing to achieve this goal?

 

[Shambles]

Ketamine.

 

[Binge Artist]

Four physical dimensions can not be envisioned.


However, one can easily visualize four general dimensions. Think of one of the variables as time, and think of the three dimensional object formed by the other variables as a movie that plays out in time.

Example: x^2 + y^2 + (z - t)^2 = 1. We call t time, and the "movie" is essentially a unit sphere floating off into space.

 

[Shambles]

Not sure how many dimensions were involved after a slightly optimistic IV dose of 4-AcO-DMT but it sure has hell wasn't three

Dunno about on amphetamines other than with sleep deprivation, not eating etc. though.

 

[QuasiStoned]

I could never see much of anything while on Benzedrex except the back of my eyelids because I'd be laying in bed feeling sick and suffering a severe headache. I certainly wasn't feeling very imaginative in those circumstances.

 

[Pythagoras]

Interesting, common wisdom is we cannot even imagine the simplex (4 dimensional cube, not to be confused with 4 dimensional space time). Obviously you can't describe it to us as its your own personal perception, but if you genuinely think you glimpsed a simplex, however briefly, then I would call that I very useful trip - imagine a future drug that allowed one to perceive n space objects, people would pay a lot for that...including most top mathematicians who can only 'show' n-dimension space mathematically. Given you know what a hypercube is I'm assuming you have a very rationalistic mind who would normally reject such a notion as impossible - how does the contradiction make you feel?

 

[Shambles]

More than one Nobel Prize winner (amongst others well regarded types) have mentioned that whatever great intellectual leap they had was assisted with various psyches - including some mathematicians who often say they can finally visualise some rather abstract concepts using LSD, generally. The discovery of the DNA double helix is often quoted as on but there are plenty of others too.

Was actually a recent thread about a famous mathematician (as mathematicians go) who was a massive speed freak too as it happens

 

[daddysgone]

Has anyone been able to visualize 4-dimensional objects while on amphetamines? I felt like I could almost visualize the hypercube or 4-simplex in very brief glimpses when I was taking Benzedrex regularly (I've had some of the same phenomenon recently too even though I haven't been taking it). What drugs would be most helpful for attempting this and what doses? Also what other procedures would you suggest employing to achieve this goal?

Im not trying to be a smart ass, but you could not have visualized this. I have no doubt that you believe that you did, and even that you may have actually imagined some image that "felt" like it was 4-dimensional, but you could not have actually visualize this object.
It would be similar to saying that you saw some wavelength of light which falls outside of the wavelengths of light which the eye can detect.

 

[Shambles]

Another one who really should go visit PD - the seeing "other" colours colours idea is another recent thread over there. You guys clearly need more psyches in your life if 4D is hard to visualise - there's a lot more than that down that there bunny hole :D

NSFW:

That's just the lobby at the entrance to ketaworld - the more complex geometry is just down/up/in/out/through/other the corridor

 

[Pythagoras]

Im not trying to be a smart ass, but you could not have visualized this. I have no doubt that you believe that you did, and even that you may have actually imagined some image that "felt" like it was 4-dimensional, but you could not have actually visualize this object.
It would be similar to saying that you saw some wavelength of light which falls outside of the wavelengths of light which the eye can detect.

You can't know that for certain. I'm also skeptical as to whether a 4-simplex can be visualized. As I said above the OP's obviously a rational person with a notion of n-dimension geometry so I'm sure he's not making the claim lightly. Though implausible who knows what the boudries are to altered states of consciousness. I agree its unlikely we can 'see' a supercube with our eyes.

Can the mind glimpse n-dimensional space? I don't know, but I do know psyches can present thoughts which do not correlate with normative conscious perceptions.

Can the OP shed any further light on this??

PY

 

[kayenta]

I've never exactly seen a 4-D object, but I've existed in four-dimensional space on 2C-I.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Another one who really should go visit PD - the seeing "other" colours colours idea is another recent thread over there. You guys clearly need more psyches in your life if 4D is hard to visualise - there's a lot more than that down that there bunny hole :D

NSFW:

That's just the lobby at the entrance to ketaworld - the more complex geometry is just down/up/in/out/through/other the corridor

Looks like the movie Cube 2: Hypercube...

 

[silentscience]

Another one who really should go visit PD - the seeing "other" colours colours idea is another recent thread over there. You guys clearly need more psyches in your life if 4D is hard to visualise - there's a lot more than that down that there bunny hole :D

NSFW:

That's just the lobby at the entrance to ketaworld - the more complex geometry is just down/up/in/out/through/other the corridor

I love your passion for K.

 

[Shambles]

I do loves me K

Shame its tolerance doesn't like me so much

First Cube film was the best but you do have a point, Oxy. Representing 4-D objects in 2-D isn't so easy. Wandering around them in a suitably psychedlicised state is a whole other matter

Still can't see how amphetamines could take you there other than stim psychosis maybe

 

[Oxymorphone]

I do loves me K

Shame its tolerance doesn't like me so much

First Cube film was the best but you do have a point, Oxy. Representing 4-D objects in 2-D isn't so easy. Wandering around them in a suitably psychedlicised state is a whole other matter

Still can't see how amphetamines could take you there other than stim psychosis maybe

Heh, a google image search revealed it is indeed a fan rendering inspired form the movie. I agree, the first was the best. I used to watch those when I smoked a lot of weed and did dissociatives and shit, they were pretty crazy.

 

[SuperHappyFun]

This is a great thread. I have been very interested in things like this for quite some time, but never thought of putting them together with drugs. That's a brilliant idea, I would tend to think something halucinogenic like acid or mescaline would create such an event, but I suppose amphetamines could jog the mind enough to get the mojo.

Some clarification would be good: No one can ever "see" a 4 dimensional object, although we live in a 4 dimensional world, we only see the three dimensions of height, width, and depth. But what many people do claim is that they had an experience, where for a brief moment, they felt like they were able to wrap their mind around the concept of a 4 dimensional object in such a way that they could "see" it. It's difficult to explain, Madeline L. Engle's famous fiction novel "A Wrinkle In Time" has a conversation among characters about a 4 dimensional box called a "teseract," one character talking about "almost seeing it once." This book is actually often taught in high schools in the U.S.

OP will really appreciate this YouTube video which contains an animated and narrarated tutorial on dimensions. Kinda "Donnie Darko"ish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA

It's all math and physics. The most widely accepted theories on space-time physics propose there are between 6 and 10 dimensions which we exist in but can't see, but may in the future manipulate. ::shivers::

 

[hexagon]

Actually, it's not really known that there definitely is no fourth physical dimension, or that humans wouldn't be able to see it if there were. Our retinas are two-dimensional arrays of photoreceptors, but our brains are able to infer the third dimension from indirect visual information like shadows and angles. Although conventional wisdom says that we would need three-dimensional retinas to infer an additional fourth, there was a study done recently in which untrained subjects were consistently able to accurately describe four-dimensional objects projected into a three-dimensional virtual reality simulator:

http://pbr.psychonomic-journals.org/content/16/5/818.full.pdf

Physical reality as directly observed by humans so far certainly only has three dimensions. However, that itself might not put any limit on what we could potentially imagine or perceive.

 

[hydrochron]

I'm just going to say-Amp's and LSD.

 

[ektamine]

Not sure how many dimensions were involved after a slightly optimistic IV dose of 4-AcO-DMT but it sure has hell wasn't three

Dunno about on amphetamines other than with sleep deprivation, not eating etc. though.

Bah!

You've finally motivated me to stop arseing around and go order some 4-AcO-DMT. This deliberation has gone on long enough. Well done kind sir :D

 

[dokomo]

After much deliberation, this thread wins the prize for most useless ancient bump of 2011, thus far.

In reference to the original question, I quote an american classic:

Mr. Madison, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.