• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: Tronica

NEWS: Drug prohibition doesn't work - so what do we do next?

Doctors are also psychiatrists, not just your typical quack... MDMA has proven extremely beneficial for use against depression. Not saying that everyone that wants to use MDMA is depressed. But that is a valid reason, imo.

Plus of course there would have to be limits etc. ANd there would be a register.

Cocaine used to be dole'd out by doctors in the 50's. In any case, I know it's not black and white. That's why people we vote for get paid to figure out how to go about things.

If it remains illegal, it's still available, but in much worse quality, and of no benefit to society whatsoever.

I'm suggesting it's smarter to have it regulated and controlled. HOw much, when, why etc, that's something that will have to be figured out.

ETA: Oh, and with regulation comes education. You can educate people to be smarter users.
 
but which ones should be prescription? and what would be a reason for going to the doctor and asking for a script for MDMA? and what limits will be imposed? 1 pill per month?

schedule 1 drugs are schedule 1 because they have no medical use... so getting doctors to prescribe drugs that have no medical use seems a bit stupid.

and as chemi said if drugs were legal there would be an increase in use because suddenly people think all the drugs are safe and they will be easily accessible - where before their lack of connections may have been holding them back.

I'm using MDMA as an example because it would be the drug that would see the biggest uptake and although it is relatively safe in terms of recreational drug use... it can still be quite dangerous!
there will suddenly be inexperienced drug users going out and taking MDMA and overheating, dehydrating, drinking too much water. Hospitals would be inundated with first time users who don't know how to take the drugs safely and think they're dying.


I don't agree with this. Are you saying that the only reason most people won't take a certain drug (or any drugs) is the legal status of the said drug??
Why is it then that the country's that spend some of the most money and time on prohibition of Cannabis also have the highest abuse rates of it? (USA, Australia and New Zealand) where the Netherlands have some of the lowest abuse rates (in the teenage bracket especially) in the western world?
Also if Heroin was legal tomorrow I doubt too many people would rush out to try it that didn't use it already.
The only way to reduce harm with all drugs is to educate and inform and purify the substances.
The only way to do that is to produce them in controlled fashion in a lab and dispense them in a controlled way.
There will still be abuse but it will be dealt with much faster and efficiently because of reduced stigma attached to it and a more open culture to discuss any problems without fear of persecution or prosecution

Just my opinion (I hope that makes sense)
 
^^ I can see lots of problems with it too that would have to be worked out. For instance, if someone who had demonstrated they had a problem with drugs was denied a prescription or legal sales or whatever it was, they're just going to buy it on the streets, and the black market would continue to be fueled with all it's inherent problems we see currently. But at the same time, I'm not sure if I think it is responsible to be selling an addict as much of a substance as they want (although I realise they can get it on the black market anyway). And even someone with the best education can be vulnerable to addiction. It's a complicated issue, but I'm with Chemi, I support decriminilisation, but I'm not sure that legalisation is necessarily the best answer.

I think there is a reason why tobacco, caffeine and alcohol are the most commonly abused drugs - because they are legal and so easy to get.
 
I think there is a reason why tobacco, caffeine and alcohol are the most commonly abused drugs - because they are legal and so easy to get.

Or because the government makes a shite load of money from them and have only started educating people (Properly) on there dangers in the last 10-15 years (they don't even have warning labels on spirits which may seem pointless but they have warnings on cigarettes )
 
Its a combination of both. I know many ex drug users who end up giving up on drugs and the hassle and etc that comes with them and turn to alcohol.

I know when I cant be fucked with drugs, that's where I turn.
 
my last post came out a bit wrong i was in a rush...

I am completely FOR decriminalisation I just don't think legalisation would work.

I'm not saying that just because, for example, MDMA was legal that suddenly everyone is going to go out and try it, I'm saying that because it would be so available and easy to get that a lot more people would use it and would use it more regularly. People who have no connections will now have a constant source. Therefore use will increase - and with an increase in use there will be an increase in people suffering from the negative side effects from these drugs.

And yes I understand that adulterants in illegally made drugs also cause people harm but if drugs were made legal and people start taking high doses of pure drugs won't that cause problems too?

Basically - legalising drugs will make them more accessible to the general public - the general public that is uneducated.

team gong, I am well aware that most rec drugs were prescribed before they were made illegal but like I said if they were once again prescribed to people what would they be prescribed for? In what doses? Doctors prescribing MDMA for psychiatric help isn't really going to help the average person who wants to have a fun saturday night obtain pharmaceutical grade MDMA. And this will cause a whole other set of issues with people lying to their doctors to obtain scripts for whatever they want - doctor shopping is already a huge problem and it would only get worse. And I doubt any doctor is going to prescribe cocaine for anything today!

The fact is people who use drugs recreationally use them for a purpose. Mostly to get fucked up and feel good. Doctors aren't going to prescribe people 200mg of MDMA just so they can have a good time.

And as everyone is saying it all needs to be regulated and controlled....But by who? The government? I don't want the government telling me how many pills I can have per month or how much coke I'm allowed to snort in a year. If the government set limits on the amount of each drug a person receives I highly doubt the amount would be anywhere near what people would want and the amount people use right now. And if I want more than what the government thinks I should have then what do I do? Start doctor shopping? Start abusing the system? Turn to the black market? And we haven't even got to the issue of pricing and how much it should be taxed.

There are so many issues that remain unanswered! And everyone can sit there and say "yeah all drugs should be legal so that I can get pure drugs - but it has to be restricted" but nobody is suggesting what these restrictions should be.

Drugs should definitely be decriminalised - the end user should not be punished for possession - but legalising drugs will bring more problems than there currently are.
 
^

Some very interesting points you have made there. I agree with pretty much the bulk of what you said, being that a lot of the time, when you hear people going on about how they want "all drugs legal", it is purely to benefit themselves.

In times like these, who wouldn't want pharmaceutical grade MDMA. You would be lying if you said you didn't.

And also your point about doctor shopping. I know enough people as it is who abuse this by trying to scheme a doctor into giving them benzos and what have you.

However I don't think legalising will necessarily bring about more problems. The way I see it, there are too many problems within todays society which come as a result of outdated and backward drug policies.

It's time for the Government to wake up and smell the coffee.
 
I still say legalize it all

There are more problems toady than would be once legalization settled in

PLEASE READAfter the War on Drugs: Blueprint for Regulation
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blueprint download.htm

I lost a good friend this week because drugs are illegal and purities vary

The war on drugs never stopped him from getting Heroin and it will never stop kids from eating all sorts of drugs that are impure or labeled as other drugs.

An end to this stupid war would bring proper education and a decrease in use
 
Amazing that even on this board their are people who think they have the right to say what people can consume in their bodies. Read the article I posted from the LA Times on page one of this post. Freedom is THE issue. Educate, regulate (if you must) and rehabilitate those who have health issues... Freedom is THE issue!
 
^^^It sure is

I am disappointed with some of the conversations I had with BLers last night in regards to this subject

I guess we are up against years of conditioning which can be hard to change

I dislike how people think that if every drug were legal, society would fade into abyss and how drugs like PMA/other dangerous highs should never be legal.

If everything were legal, all the information would be widely available to every user and even if dangerous drugs were legal, no one is going to eat or supply PMA (or any other crappy dangerous high) when Cocaine, Methamphetamine, MDMA, LSD, Mescaline etc. are available to them

As a society we can get high whenever we want, whether it be alcohol, prescription drugs or whatever may be available to you on the black market.

Most of us who get high, do it in our spare time, not all the time

I can't see this changing if all drugs were legal (we still have to work, meet family commitments) and all the statistics lean the same way

I urge you to think past the "if all drugs were legal, everyone would have too much access and be high all the time" and "some drugs shouldn't be legal" theories

They just don't hold up when put to the test

There will always be problematic users and those who are dumb enough to take really dangerous chemicals. Ending prohibition is the best thing for both both of these 2 groups

We should have the right to choose what we put in our bodies full stop

WE DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY
 
^^^It sure is

I am disappointed with some of the conversations I had with BLers last night in regards to this subject

I guess we are up against years of conditioning which can be hard to change

I dislike how people think that if every drug were legal, society would fade into abyss and how drugs like PMA/other dangerous highs should never be legal.

If everything were legal, all the information would be widely available to every user and even if dangerous drugs were legal, no one is going to eat or supply PMA (or any other crappy dangerous high) when Cocaine, Methamphetamine, MDMA, LSD, Mescaline etc. are available to them

As a society we can get high whenever we want, whether it be alcohol, prescription drugs or whatever may be available to you on the black market.

Most of us who get high, do it in our spare time, not all the time

I can't see this changing if all drugs were legal (we still have to work, meet family commitments) and all the statistics lean the same way

I urge you to think past the "if all drugs were legal, everyone would have too much access and be high all the time" and "some drugs shouldn't be legal" theories

They just don't hold up when put to the test

There will always be problematic users and those who are dumb enough to take really dangerous chemicals. Ending prohibition is the best thing for both both of these 2 groups

We should have the right to choose what we put in our bodies full stop

WE DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY


Nicely put
 
I am definately pro legalisation, decrim is better than nothing but you still have the same problems of the black market now the only improvement is stopping punishing the end user. I don't really get how a drug user couldn't support legalisation, like somehow its ok for you to do it but it should be restricted for others?

I don't think drug use would increase that much but even if it did, so what? Obviously nobody on this site likes being told what they can and can't put into their own bodies, legalisation just afford every person this basic right.

Why is it fine for us to be using but if everyone started using it would be disasterous? I have had some negative shit come from my drug use over the years, mainly because of my inability to practise what I often preach in regards to harm reduction. There are still a good many people who maintain functional lives while using a good amount of drugs.

Most addicts would either be addicts now disregarding legal status or alcoholics I reckon, the amount of people who axtually had serious substance abuse problems would not rise substantially. Obviously that is pure speculation on my part but it I do think it would be proven true if drugs ever were relegalised.
 
Amazing that even on this board their are people who think they have the right to say what people can consume in their bodies. Read the article I posted from the LA Times on page one of this post. Freedom is THE issue. Educate, regulate (if you must) and rehabilitate those who have health issues... Freedom is THE issue!

The Freedom not to have to deal with tweakers in public when I walk down the street with my kids is also the issue. Open markets will not suddenly weed out the social idiots who don't stay at home when they indulge. Making it legal takes control away from these people who are unfortunately more responsible. It is only a small percentage of idiots out there (Bluelight by it's nature tends to have less of them) but only a few will ruin it for all.

Removing the penalty of having a criminal record is a better option. Denying a person the right to travel to other countries just because they happen to have been caught smoking a bowl is the real travesty. Despite all men being born equal we all know that the rich don't go to jail or get arrested. Different drug users attract different attention from the authorities, rightly or wrongly. Most of us have been in this game for long enough to know people whose lives have been ruined by drugs. Addiction, mental illness or just stupid accidents won't disappear because suddenly things are legal.

Having more open debate on harm reduction from people who by their standing in society must stay quiet would be more beneficial and this is still achievable with decriminalisation.
 
I really don't see how informed people such as ourselves could not support legalisation, obviously there are details that would have to be sorted out, but I think that's a path that should be crossed when we actually come to it.

Excellently put Psilo, couldn't agree with you more.
 
Legalisation is a massive step in mostly uncharted waters. Every drug has it's own unique profile and simply lumping them all in togther can be extreamly dangerous. A lot of the pro drug crowd iv noticed has a thing about pointing out the dangerous of tabacco and Alcohol in comparision to their illigal brothers, im willing to put forward the idea that many of these danger's are a result of their wide availability.

The thousands upon thousands of people who go out every weekend and drink as much as possiable yet you don't think that if Heroin was legal that people wouldn't follow the same path?
 
Legalisation is a massive step in mostly uncharted waters. Every drug has it's own unique profile and simply lumping them all in togther can be extreamly dangerous. A lot of the pro drug crowd iv noticed has a thing about pointing out the dangerous of tabacco and Alcohol in comparision to their illigal brothers, im willing to put forward the idea that many of these danger's are a result of their wide availability.

The thousands upon thousands of people who go out every weekend and drink as much as possiable yet you don't think that if Heroin was legal that people wouldn't follow the same path?

Of course the majority of people wouldn't just go out and get off there faces on heroin for the fun of it. I think initially you might see a spike of people trying a different substance who wouldn't normally, but to tell the truth I could have done and could still (easily) do a wide range of drugs that I wouldn't' touch with 10 foot shitty stick.

Case in point how easy is it to obtain Datura from gardens in Australia and New Zealand?? And then look at how many people would actually want to use datura, not too many I would hazard a guess.

People that want to use drugs already do and it is usually the drug of their choosing no matter what the legal status may be.
 
This is an interesting development to start the year ...


Pot clubs go nationwide


BY STEVE HOPKINS - Sunday News

Cannabis clubs – where users flout the law by meeting to smoke and buy the Class C drug – may soon open nationwide.

Next month founding members of New Zealand's first cannabis connoisseurs' club, Auckland's Daktory, plan to meet fellow users throughout the country to help set-up Daktories in other cities.

"We have demand from virtually every city in the country," Daktory founder Dakta Green told Sunday News.

" I would expect to see in the next 12 months Daktories in every major city in this country, every city should have at least one - 2010 is the year people within our culture are demanding changes throughout the world."

Auckland's Daktory, in New Lynn, plans to offer "degrees in Daktology" later this year – formalised study on all aspects of the cannabis industry including hands-on cultivation techniques.

For the first two-and-a-half months the Daktory was open cannabis was sold from the venue, and at one point almost 20 different strands of cannabis were available.

That was stopped, not by police, but by demand Green said: "It got too popular and too busy." Cannabis is again for sale from the Daktory, as it's planned to be at all newly established cannabis clubs.

The Daktory's nationwide plans follow more than a year of hassle-free law-breaking by club members.

In the 14 months since the Daktory opened – in November 2008 – there hadn't been a single police raid on their Delta St premises until Sunday News asked questions of police this week.

Police national headquarters refused to comment, as did Waitakere police, but yesterday four police cars swooped on the Daktory.

Officers executed a search warrant and Daktory members said they confiscated lighting equipment and lap-top computers.

Detective Rhys Wilson wouldn't comment on what police had seized, but said a number of exhibits had been taken and police had a considerable amount of work to do at the address. Police charged one man with cultivating cannabis and further charges against him were likely, Wilson said.

The Daktory boasts more than 2000 members who pay a monthly fee to smoke (mainly, their own cannabis) within the club's spacious warehouse.

Members, whose names remain confidential, must be at least 18 and sign up for a year's membership. Green, 59, said the oldest club-member was "in their late 70s", and that doctors, lawyers, court officials and business people were among the membership.

Schoolteachers were most highly represented, he said. Green, who changed his name from Ken Morgan by Deed Pole, runs the Daktory. He holds the company shares in trust, but plans to turn ownership over to a community trust in the near future.
Ad Feedback

That model is planned to be replicated nationwide: "We are a model for that to happen".

Dad-of-three Green, who is also a Norml – The National Organisation for the Reform of Marijuana Laws – board member wants cannabis legalised. The Daktory, like Norml's aptly named Mary Jane bus which is parked there, is a protest vehicle.

"We wish to legalise cannabis, but we also wish to live like it's legal," Green said.

"So in my home [Green lives at the Daktory] we have a motto `live like it's legal'. We just think it's wrong and there's no reason to continue with serious criminality of something that is as relatively harmless as cannabis."

And Green and his members certainly `live like it's legal' at the Daktory.

Next to one coffee table, cannabis spotting knives sit on an element, a gas bottle connected beneath. Plastic bongs, bucket bongs and cannabis smoking pipes are scattered about.

When Sunday News toured the premises this week, more than a dozen cannabis plants were being grown on a sunny window-sill and two others under a heat lamp, in a metallic, heat-reflecting box, locked off from the lounge area.

In Green's upstairs kitchen, half a dozen cannabis bongs – plastic, metal and glass, small and large – were scattered about and White Rhino strand cannabis buds were present in a glass container.

Under the Misuse of Drug Act 1975 possession of cannabis is punishable by three months' jail and or a fine of up to $500 and possession for supply and cultivation of cannabis is punishable by up to seven years' jail. Possessing cannabis utensils is also illegal. Last month, when asked about the Daktory, New Lynn sergeant Grant Watson said police's position on cannabis was quite clear – it's illegal.

"It doesn't matter where you are, in a private dwelling or anywhere, smoking and possessing cannabis is an offence against the Misuse of Drugs Act and carries a fine and/or a term of imprisonment," he said.

Before busting the Daktory yesterday, police had targeted motorists leaving the Daktory during the new year period. Green took issue with this because "it's a waste of police resources" and he believes that type of policing is illegal.

"I refuse to be subjected to arrest, harassment by police and imprisonment because I am part of a culture that celebrates and glorifies cannabis for people within our culture," he said.

To prove Daktory members were being `harassed", on January 2, Green drove around the block from his home with a Daktory member filming from the back seat. Green said his plan "worked beautifully". In a video, now posted on You Tube, and proudly shown to Sunday News, Green is pulled over almost immediately by police. After showing officers his licence he is soon let go – free of charge.

The stunt doesn't mean Green is against new legislation making it illegal for motorists to drive under the influence of drugs. Daktory members are advised to have a sober drive and to rest between smoking and driving. Members "farewell me with clear eyes", Green said.

Earlier this week, before the raid, Green said he wasn't surprised the Daktory hadn't been shutdown by authorities.

"It's my house and I've been told by police in the past, `don't smoke in public, smoke in private and we will leave you alone'."

Green's issue with cannabis laws' are that ordinary people are being locked up for using a substance "scientifically proven to be less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes". He said cannabis was part of popular culture and "the fact that everybody is doing it is a damn good reason to stop locking a few of us up". Norml claims someone is arrested on cannabis-related charges every 37 minutes in New Zealand, some 15,000 annually. Green also wants to see the cannabis industry "out of the hands of what are criminals by definition, and put in the hands of the community where it can be properly controlled."

He said at the moment the black-market cannabis trade was "out of control". The Daktory, Green said, was a "safe haven" for users and ensured they weren't put in danger while trying to buy cannabis.

Despite championing cannabis law reform, Green – who also pushed for Saturday trading and in the 1980s ran a casino on a boat beyond police jurisdiction – doesn't advocate cannabis use. He was against it until age 40.

"Cannabis is not for everyone. I don't advocate to anyone to take it up, but I do advocate that cannabis is not a dangerous product."

"Very few over-indulge" in cannabis at the Daktory – it's more coffee-shop than nightclub in that respect, Green said.

Visitors to the Daktory – open Wednesday to Sunday – could expect to see people: "Sitting around enjoying a quiet chat and a quiet toke, perhaps listening to the music, and generally relaxing. It's a very laxed out place," Green explained, quick to dispel beliefs it was a "stoners club".

The Daktory is a comfortable venue, like a recreation-centre. There are dozens of couches, armchairs and coffee tables spread around an open-plan space.

Coffee is available – food is planned – and there's a pool, fus and a table tennis table plus a projector screen, a library – which includes a copy of Shakespeare's complete works – and music.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3218470/Pot-clubs-go-nationwide
 
More good news IMO :)

I don't smoke pot, but I believe the decriminalisation and eventually legalisation will be the first step towards total decriminalisation and legalisation.
 
Of course the majority of people wouldn't just go out and get off there faces on heroin for the fun of it. I think initially you might see a spike of people trying a different substance who wouldn't normally, but to tell the truth I could have done and could still (easily) do a wide range of drugs that I wouldn't' touch with 10 foot shitty stick.

Case in point how easy is it to obtain Datura from gardens in Australia and New Zealand?? And then look at how many people would actually want to use datura, not too many I would hazard a guess.

People that want to use drugs already do and it is usually the drug of their choosing no matter what the legal status may be.

YAY, THERE ARE OTHER SANE PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH

Well put trippa :)
 
Top