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Theory of psychedelics. Are they right or wrong?

What is the point of expanding out minds? There is none in the general scheme of things. It is only important to us in a superficial way and doesn't deal with our survival of a species nor help with the longevity of the world we live in. We cause more problems than we solve on this earth, hence we are detrimental to this world. Being able to think in a more complex manner means jack shit. It just is the way we've evolved to survive. That is it. Clearly it is more of a disadvantage (IMO) because it is continuing to cause us problems.

If I had the choice I'd resort back to a primitive life style (hunter gather) or just be some other animal. Modern humans aren't worth the air they breath imo.
 
Cloudy said:
What is the point of expanding out minds? There is none in the general scheme of things. It is only important to us in a superficial way and doesn't deal with our survival of a species nor help with the longevity of the world we live in. We cause more problems than we solve on this earth, hence we are detrimental to this world. Being able to think in a more complex manner means jack shit. It just is the way we've evolved to survive. That is it. Clearly it is more of a disadvantage (IMO) because it is continuing to cause us problems.

If I had the choice I'd resort back to a primitive life style (hunter gather) or just be some other animal. Modern humans aren't worth the air they breath imo.
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Agreed

But shit, I'm here. I'm alive. And I'm human. I think I'll still enjoy my self defeating traits.
 
I certainly try and make the best of it. I'm still human so I have to follow my biological rules as well as these stupid human concepts we call "laws". I just wish I wasn't human, but obviously there is nothing I can do about that.
 
i really think thats stupid. my mind has paved out my world, and i believe our minds are really what makes heaven. so those stupid animals, they dont go to heaven, because they arent intelligent enough to "think" and make there afterlife. but thats based on what i believe in, so I see where you guys are coming from. Im glad i can have feelings and emotions. most animals cant. and hopefully most of us are going to die before our planet has some major issues, wich i hope they dont, but probably will. and most people live longer than most animals. so i really still dont see why animals are better than humans. your going down a naturalistic path, which is dumb. expand your mind and soul because youve been given the privaledge to do so!
 
Psycheldelics when given to the right people have legandary results,when learnt how to use properly you can understand why they have been around since the beggining of time and why they are GIFTS:)The people who should not be taking these are the ones with mental illness-I think most of the "bad"trips you here about are from those with undiagnosed mental illness and the people who do not respect them.It has been well documented intellectual people artists,and muscians have the benefit of naturally understanding them-Simply put psycheldelics MAGNIFY what is in your unconsciouss and personality,Its up to you if you choose to face them and ACCEPT you know NOTHING!!!!!!!
 
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romsoccer12 said:
i really think thats stupid. my mind has paved out my world, and i believe our minds are really what makes heaven. so those stupid animals, they dont go to heaven, because they arent intelligent enough to "think" and make there afterlife. but thats based on what i believe in, so I see where you guys are coming from. Im glad i can have feelings and emotions. most animals cant. and hopefully most of us are going to die before our planet has some major issues, wich i hope they dont, but probably will. and most people live longer than most animals. so i really still dont see why animals are better than humans. your going down a naturalistic path, which is dumb. expand your mind and soul because youve been given the privaledge to do so!
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The fact that you are using your emotions as the reason we are better than other animals is quite foolish imo. That is what got us into these problems in the first place.

Also since when have animals not been able to think? What sources do you have to back this up. Animals make decisions, have societies, and can communicate. They have understanding of what is going on around them, so clearly they are acting on something other than just instinct. Of course some animals are more complex than others, but what does that matter? The only logical explanation for the reason for life is the survival of a species while maintaining a natural balance with the world. You don't need to be able to think or have emotions to do this.

What does living long have to do with anything? I honestly find that fact to be more detrimental to our species than helpful. We help create more and more diseases and viruses due to mutations not to mention, causing more problems for us as well as to other species of animals around us. Lets not forget about mental illness as well. Also with our extended lives we create less and less room to live, which causes problems for the environment related to the the supply and demand of food and natural resources.

Of course your mind has paved out your world, because that is the biological attribute that humans use to survive. If you didn't use you mind you would be dead! Such a silly argument.

I find it sad that for thousands and thousands of year (not sure exactly how long) humans were able to maintain a healthy population which I believe was around 40,000. They were living life in a more simpler time, but mastered the way of living harmoniously with the world, which we spout as something we are trying to achieve. BULLSHIT! We know what we need to do but we are selfish and allow our mind and emotions to control us. Because of this we make stupid decisions which effect not only ourselves but everything around us.

Humans are the worst thing to have a presence on this earth.
 
The only logical explanation for the reason for life is the survival of a species while maintaining a natural balance with the world.
i dont think that is the only logical explanation for life... im not saying we are better than animals, we have a higher mind capacity. animals live there life on instinct, they make decisions based on the best possible outcome, not what they want or dont want, just like a computer. i wouldnt want to live my life as a computer. i like making decisions for myself, controlling my destiny on my planet.
 
romsoccer12 said:
I came up with a theory that psychedelics were put on this earth for a reason. I think our brain can do everything a psychedelic can produce, psychs were just put here so they can slowly help us to get to that mind set without using them.STOOP, SAY WHUT? I think they are truly the answers to a lot of things we are looking for and with more reasearch they are capable of answering a lot of questions. A lot of great discoveries about the mind etc. were made by people doing psychs, another reason I feel they are very important. They show us the way, but we have to get there on are own. Thats why when we do to much of a drug, like acid, it fucks you up. Its not made to get us to the destination, just give us a path =). Can I here some more theories of psych users?
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I'm going to agree and disagree with those first 4 lines.. why? I dont really think our brain is meant to get to the mindset of seeing illusions, buildings swurving and fake objects which arent there and other various hallucinations. Also to be able to become extremely paranoid & scared, sad, angry, all within a second because you saw something that scared you or something that you kept thinking of which shouldnt upset you.

Look at it this way, in the middle of desert, no water in site, you all of a sudden see an oasis, you have been traveling for 3 days in the desert, lost and have not drank a drop of water in the last 2. You start seeing shit. Thats not a good status to be in, in my opinion illusions are our body telling us our mind/body is suffering, but if we're going to do psychedelics we might as well enjoy that part as well, sometimes dont bother reflecting upon yourself, its nice just to be happy and enjoy your surroundings for a day, not everyone gets this experience after all.

I agree that our minds should be able to get to the state of meditation and ability to feel an amazing happyness and warmth inside you. I'm sure we can program our brains to feel that way, the ability to escape from everything around you and think to yourself for a while, escape reality and look upon yourself and not anything else but yourself, to fix what needs to be fixed upon your mental status.

Unfortunately, no, I dont think we're meant to get to the status psychedelics bring us to, lets face it, it isnt that natural, its amazing and all, but I dont think its natural. Dont get me wrong, i'm not trolling, i'm not attempting to make you feel stupid or to contradict your opinion, I'm just stating that I believe otherwise.

As for the rest of the post I'm going to have to agree on, I do believe we can discover alot about our mind and it does help with mental issues at times.
 
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romsoccer12 said:
The only logical explanation for the reason for life is the survival of a species while maintaining a natural balance with the world.
i dont think that is the only logical explanation for life... im not saying we are better than animals, we have a higher mind capacity. animals live there life on instinct, they make decisions based on the best possible outcome, not what they want or dont want, just like a computer. i wouldn't want to live my life as a computer. i like making decisions for myself, controlling my destiny on my planet.
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Can you name another reason that doesn't involve human concepts such as religion, morals, etc. for an explanation for life?

I'm not disputing you on the fact we have a higher mental capacity. That is why I'm talking to you, not a dog.

A lot animals don't solely live on instinct. Animals exhibit emotions and logical thought. Just look at dolphins, monkeys, etc. They don't live life as a "computer," and even if they did what does it matter? In that case you don't have the ability to realize you live in a more controlled life, so it wouldn't matter. You wouldn't know any better. It doesn't make there life any less important or valuable than ours.

i like making decisions for myself, controlling my destiny on my planet.
Animals even the simplest make decisions for themselves. How else would they make decisions? They aren't puppets. They respond to external and internal stimuli, which is how we function. There are just more variables involved for us.

No matter what you are on this planet you mean absolutely nothing and your life is irrelevant, and the only reasonable thing to do is preserve the species. Since survival of the individual is basically a given we like to make up things to fill the void. This becomes a problem. We are straying away from the natural order (not to say we aren't natural, but we are certainly going against the grain) and that leaves us to try an manipulate our environment to suit purely our own needs. We aren't concerned about the ramifications because we are blind and are on a runaway train. We are actually slowly killing our species as we are doing this, which is the opposite of what organism should be doing.

So can't you see how having your mentality is negative for our species and the organisms around us? Everything you are saying is telling me that you are egotistical and have no concern for the welling being of this world nor the survival of your own species (imo). If you realize this and that is the way you want to live your life because that is how things are happening and that's they way they should always happen, than I can't argue with you. Depending on my perspective I'm the same way, aka nihilism. However I retain some understand and love for this world that I don't want to have that attitude for everything.
 
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Cloudy said:
The only logical explanation for the reason for life is the survival of a species while maintaining a natural balance with the world. You don't need to be able to think or have emotions to do this.

Humans are the worst thing to have a presence on this earth.
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How is simply surviving and maintaining a natural balance with the world a logical explanation for the reason for life? If you believe that then you should believe there is no reason for life. If we are here simply to survive then there is no reason. You can't give reason to life without thinking there is some goal or some evolution that we must attain. If there is no reason for life then why would life exist? Ockham's razor would suggest that there would be no life if there is no reason for life.

Humans are not necessarily the worst thing to have a presence on earth. We are in a transitional period as we have gone through unfathomable revolution and scientific breakthrough within a fraction of our entire existence on this planet. You mentioned that we lived in harmony with the world and maintained the same population for what was actually hundreds of thousands of years, if you count the more primitive version of homo sapiens. We are in a transitional period with our science and technology as well as politics. Most people are good people, but politics and technology has progressed so unimaginably quickly that of course we don't know how to handle it. Humans want to survive and we can overcome this transitional period. If we survive this transitional period we have the potential to usher in a new age where our vast knowledge and capabilities can be used for the good of the entire planet. It is simply a matter of transition, or evolution if you will.
 
love_sex_desire said:
How is simply surviving and maintaining a natural balance with the world a logical explanation for the reason for life? If you believe that then you should believe there is no reason for life. If we are here simply to survive then there is no reason. You can't give reason to life without thinking there is some goal or some evolution that we must attain. If there is no reason for life then why would life exist? Ockham's razor would suggest that there would be no life if there is no reason for life.

How is it not a logical explanation? It is what every living organism on this earth has been doing since their formation. There doesn't have to be purpose to anything. Why can't people accept the fact that there existence is meaningless. It doesn't make you any less you. You can continue to live your life (like I have) and have acknowledge that there is no purpose to life, no end game. This isn't some sort of fantasy or game world where you meet the final boss and win a cool prize, life is just one continuous chemical reaction that doesn't have desires or goals. Think about it, we are just molecules interacting with one another at a microscopic level. Atoms don't care about anything, they just perform a reaction based on there chemistry/physics and the interaction with other atoms with specific chemistry/physics.

My belief seems to honestly coincide with the definition of occams razor than yours, from my understanding of what it means. My belief offers a simpler explanation to existence, plainly just to live. When you are a purpose to life you are complicating the definition of life.

Also in the case of animals what is their purpose in life if there is one. Shouldn't there be the same as ours?

Humans are not necessarily the worst thing to have a presence on earth. We are in a transitional period as we have gone through unfathomable revolution and scientific breakthrough within a fraction of our entire existence on this planet. You mentioned that we lived in harmony with the world and maintained the same population for what was actually hundreds of thousands of years, if you count the more primitive version of homo sapiens. We are in a transitional period with our science and technology as well as politics. Most people are good people, but politics and technology has progressed so unimaginably quickly that of course we don't know how to handle it. Humans want to survive and we can overcome this transitional period. If we survive this transitional period we have the potential to usher in a new age where our vast knowledge and capabilities can be used for the good of the entire planet. It is simply a matter of transition, or evolution if you will.

In my opinion it is kinda hard to say whether or not we are in a transitional period when we are still existing in this period. I don't know how to argue against this since it is just pure speculation.
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my comments are in red.
 
^^ The OP was off to suggest that other animals don't have feelings or emotions, but many do not have them to the extent that humans have. No one can rule out the fact that we are truly a unique species and there may be a point to all of this (we may be "special"). Almost any two other species besides humans on this planet will have more in common with each other than either has with humans. This may be all biological, but no one can say that the potential that humans have, and the potential we have demonstrated through fields such as space exploration and quantum physics can be ruled out as being completely random, unintentional and without purpose. We are special you guys! We've been to the fucking moon! I for one take great joy in the prospect that their is divinity in each and everyone of us. If there is divinity in each and every one of us, then there is probably divinity in each and every single species, but I think humans are more capable of grasping and reflecting our own divinity. This is all speculation and in no way belief, but we should really look at our capabilities and reflect on how awesome of a species humans can be.
 
If you are bringing divinity into this than there is no point in even bothering to have this conversation with you. There is no way to disprove prove the divine.
 
If we are just the interaction of chemicals and life is meaningless, then why did nature create life? Would Occams razor not dictate that there would be no life if there was no point? Would it not be simpler for there to be no life if there was no reason behind it? The complexity of life is so beyond simplicity that if there was no reason for life, I postulate there probably wouldn't have ever been life.

I don't understand how the meaningless creation of such complex biological systems conforms to Occam's razor more than the realization that there are complex biological systems implies there is a reason to life.

Again, I do not subscribe to any belief system, I am agnostic but spiritual in the sense of possibility. I love speculation, and you may very well be correct. I'm just inclined to think that for the miracle of not only reality, but the miracle of awareness and consciousness existing within this miraculous reality, it seems like the universe is becoming self-aware, which from my view points to a divine source of creation.

I think everything is divine, and the united energy that connects all of reality is divine and is becoming self aware. Humans are expanding the level of awareness with our mind, and are therefore closer to this divine awareness, al though everything shares this divinity.

Just my thoughts, not beliefs!
 
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Cloudy said:
If you are bringing divinity into this than there is no point in even bothering to have this conversation with you. There is no way to disprove prove the divine.
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Exactly, you can't prove or disprove divinity! So why is any one answer necessarily correct? And what caused life? I think these are valid questions worth speculating beyond science, because science can not give any answer to why there is life.

Science can only show us the mechanisms, but what is the reason? if there is no reason, then why anything?

I also think whether or not the divine can be proven or disproven is a matter of definition. To me the divine is whatever energy created reality and life. Obviously some energy caused all of this. It probably isn't conscious, if anything this divinity would be something we could never hope to comprehend. Whether it is conscious or not, some energy created life, and that is what I call divine and that is what I praise, because to be honest I love life and I am grateful to whatever energy caused life.
 
FrenchMachine said:
Wow. That is without a doubt the stupidest thing I've read on the Internet all week.

Have you ever had a pet? Have you ever spent any time around an animal? I'm going to assume the answer to both those questions is "no" considering you have such an idiotic point of view.
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chill teh fuck out, i said most. i have lots of pets, the only animal that can somewhat think for itself is my dog, everything else is based on instinct and survival only.

cloudy, if everyone just lived there life to "survive" sooner or later we would still have a lot of bad problems taht we have now, for example lets just say over population. if everyone just lived to survive people would end up stealing food, killing other people, and basically everything that now is morally wrong. if you think about it, it would be like what animals would do.. kill other animals for food, steal, and live only for survival. because our minds have capability of much more than animals, we can improve scientifically and as problems happen, try to figure out the best solution, not for survival of us alone, but everyone else, the world, every single species on our planet. animals dont care about other animals... they live to survive.. they are exactly like computers, no meaning in life, just running on instinct like computers run on commands. if i sound stupid sorry, im trying to express my thoughts but i absolutely suck at english. hope you got the meaning of where im trying to go
 
No one/nothing created anything. If you assume something created life than you believe in some form of higher power, which contradicts the fact that you are agnostic. You can't be both at the same time. I understand having different beliefs based on circumstance but you can't have two opposing beliefs on the same subject or you wouldn't have any belief at all.

lets also drop occams razor, we seem to have different ideas on the definition, and the fact that it isn't irrefutable principle of logic kinda voids it from this conversation in this context, imo.

I can't understand why you continue to say you believe in divinity when that implies an existence of a higher power. Make up your mind.
 
love_sex_desire said:
Exactly, you can't prove or disprove divinity! So why is any one answer necessarily correct? And what caused life? I think these are valid questions worth speculating beyond science, because science can not give any answer to why there is life.

Science can only show us the mechanisms, but what is the reason? if there is no reason, then why anything?

I also think whether or not the divine can be proven or disproven is a matter of definition. To me the divine is whatever energy created reality and life. Obviously some energy caused all of this. It probably isn't conscious, if anything this divinity would be something we could never hope to comprehend. Whether it is conscious or not, some energy created life, and that is what I call divine and that is what I praise, because to be honest I love life and I am grateful to whatever energy caused life.
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This is just like quoting Descartes mediation 2, it immediately stops the argument. There is no disproving it, aka quite silly to use in an argument/debate.
 
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