Theory of psychedelics. Are they right or wrong?

[rickolasnice]

so your saying there is an alien race, much smarter than us, that has had 23 days, since our big bang

Nonono they've been alive an well for well over what they percieve as 23days (in terms of time length.. not earth rotations).. to us it's obviously been billions of years (within out perception of the 4th dimension, time..).. They've been alive for billions of year in THEIR time.. to us infinite only jus scratches the surface of the age of this "alien race".. I know them as the creators.. Their IQ is atleast 12 digits long in our scoring system (I don't know tbh, it's probably alot more).. To be honest.. they don't even exist within our reality.. they do exist.. the created everything we know as reality.. but it's literally incomprehensible to us with out intelligence capacity.

 

[romsoccer12]

how do you know all this?

 

[Roger&Me]

^Because they told him, duh.

 

[tittysnacks74]

Have you ever heard of a Dream Machine? All it is is two strobing LED lights about an inch apart, and usually you can control the frequency with a knob. They are ordinary lights, but when put up to your closed eyelids, you perceive colorful patterns. Your brain takes a rather simple stimuli and creates meaningful, vibrant visuals out of it.

Same with psychedelics. The chemicals do not cause the effects, your brain is doing all the work! Psychedelics just allow it to do so in a non-ordinary way.

This corroborates the philosophy of Dzogchen, which declares that all perception and experience is merely the radiance of your own mind, and all things can be traced back to the mind's primordial nature which creates them. That nature of mind, I think, is the divine mystical essence that various traditions have revered.

 

[tittysnacks74]

Nonono they've been alive an well for well over what they percieve as 23days (in terms of time length.. not earth rotations).. to us it's obviously been billions of years (within out perception of the 4th dimension, time..).. They've been alive for billions of year in THEIR time.. to us infinite only jus scratches the surface of the age of this "alien race".. I know them as the creators.. Their IQ is atleast 12 digits long in our scoring system (I don't know tbh, it's probably alot more).. To be honest.. they don't even exist within our reality.. they do exist.. the created everything we know as reality.. but it's literally incomprehensible to us with out intelligence capacity.

Everyone is thinking it, so I'll just rip off the band-aid and say it:

You're fuckin fried, dude. But it's ok, You're still worth as much as anyone else here.

 

[tittysnacks74]

What is the point of expanding out minds? There is none in the general scheme of things. It is only important to us in a superficial way and doesn't deal with our survival of a species nor help with the longevity of the world we live in. We cause more problems than we solve on this earth, hence we are detrimental to this world. Being able to think in a more complex manner means jack shit. It just is the way we've evolved to survive. That is it. Clearly it is more of a disadvantage (IMO) because it is continuing to cause us problems.

If I had the choice I'd resort back to a primitive life style (hunter gather) or just be some other animal. Modern humans aren't worth the air they breath imo.

What is this "general scheme of things" you speak of? Mere natural selection and special survival?

The mere fact that we occupy subjective modes of perception is evidence that there is more to the human experience than merely fucking and eating. To cheat yourself out of culture, pleasure, and intellectual stimulation merely because they don't contribute to the longevity of our species is probably one of the worst things a human being could possibly do.

 

[Cloudy]

Wait, so you are telling me because we have the ability to be egotistical and destroy the earth we share with millions of other species who happen to be able to live harmoniously with everything, we should do it?

I'll stick with being resentful for being a human being and wish to live in a more harmonious and selfless way.

It is amazing to me how so many people, I'd wager over 75%, have this self of entitlement to everything that exists on this earth.

I really hope with in the next 500 years there are no humans left.

 

[love_sex_desire]

^^ That's a little self-destructive. Personally, rather than hoping humans become extinct, I hope technology and knowledge will free us. Modern civilization is still young, but we have a lot of potential, no matter how fucked up things may seem.

 

[Cloudy]

It is hardly self-destruction if I'm not considering offing myself, not that I have a problem with death at all. I'm not even wishing death to anyone on this earth, I'm merely hoping that in the future the population of humans will be zero. By what means, I don't know. I certainly don't wish death upon people, but humans are terrible terrible things (imo) and we shouldn't be allowed to live further. A better alternative though would be 90% of the population to volunteer to kill themselves and the other 10% to live in a more primitive life style spread across the globe. However that is seriously impractical.

I also feel that no matter how far in technology we get, we can't out run biology or achieve anything close to the greatness of biology. Our destruction will never leave us, we'll continue to leave a path. However this is just my personal speculation.

 

[love_sex_desire]

It's self-destructive because we are all connected. A biological purpose is to procreate and live on through generations. The next generation will be an extension of us. If you want a future generation to die off, it is self-destructive and completely unnatural, for any type of animal.

 

[Cloudy]

I still don't see how you are putting the label self destructive on it, considering hoping we become extinct with in 500 years doesn't have anything to do with me (of course if it happens within my life time I guess i could see the correlation, but that is certainly not going to happen). However your definition of self-destruction is wrong since you are trying to place me with everything. If I were truly self-destructive and decided to kill myself, the effect on the human population would be nothing. We are far to over populated for any single death or even the death of a million people to matter in the survival of the human race. Sure some peoples emotions will be all over the place, but what does that matter? Certainly doesn't in the general scheme of things.

Also the human race is certainly far more self-destructive by themselves by doing what we do everyday, which we find acceptable for some reason, than me saying I hope the human race goes extinct. By continuing on this path we are potentially being very, very, self-destructive.

 

[love_sex_desire]

It's self-destructive as a human to want the human race to be eliminated, whether it is within your lifetime. Regardless of whether you want yourself to die, your self is still human, so to wish the extinction of all humans means to wish the extinction of your lineage, your continued heritage.

However your definition of self-destruction is wrong since you are trying to place me with everything.

I am implying that all humans are connected, as we all obviously come from one another lol, so for any human to wish the extinction of our species I think is self-destructive. I am not placing you with everything, I am placing every human with all humans.

So yes I'm being somewhat metaphorical as I am saying self-destructive in the sense that our selves are all human, and as you do not wish yourself to die, but you want what your self is, human, to die off. It's a valid metaphor to say that a human wanting the extinction of humanity is self-destructive.

I just thought how similar this is to Michael Alig's character in the movie Party Monster saying he always thought he was self-destructive, even for being gay as he wouldn't have children and perpetuate his lineage. Without perpetuating your lineage you do not live on. I'm not homophobic but not having children is opposite of how nature perpetuates. I repeat I am not homophobic, but if he every human was gay it would be self-destructive in the sense that humans, as in who your self is, would not perpetuate. Just as wanting all humans to be extinct means that what your self is, human, would no longer perpetuate.


I'm not saying what humans do isn't self-destructive. I think we all know that we need to change. I, however put faith in the ingenuity and intelligence of the human mind and I do believe we will continue to evolve rather than wanting us to continue on our path of self-destruction as you seem to subscribe to. Why would you want us to self-destruct rather than use our minds to make the world a better place? You specifically say you want us to self-destruct, rather than saying you want us to progress. I would hope everyone would want us to evolve. Wanting us to self-destruct in 500 years, is self-destructive!

Don't be so cynical! I think you should recognize the gift of our intelligence and have some hope for humanity rather than wanting our species to die off!

 

[tittysnacks74]

Wait, so you are telling me because we have the ability to be egotistical and destroy the earth we share with millions of other species who happen to be able to live harmoniously with everything, we should do it?

I'll stick with being resentful for being a human being and wish to live in a more harmonious and selfless way.

It is amazing to me how so many people, I'd wager over 75%, have this self of entitlement to everything that exists on this earth.

I really hope with in the next 500 years there are no humans left.

You're putting words in peoples' mouths that were never uttered. I'm pretty sure no one here wants to destroy he earth.

I'm sorry, but this post proves that you're just angsty and trying to be controversial without logical backup.

 

[Cloudy]

You're putting words in peoples' mouths that were never uttered. I'm pretty sure no one here wants to destroy he earth.

I'm sorry, but this post proves that you're just angsty and trying to be controversial without logical backup.

How does asking a question putting words in your mouth? Also on the topic of putting words into others mouths, I never said anyone wants to destroy the earth. I said we have the ability to destroy the earth, which says nothing about you or anyone here wanting to destroy the earth.

and anyway, this is what I was basing my sarcastic question on, "The mere fact that we occupy subjective modes of perception is evidence that there is more to the human experience than merely fucking and eating. To cheat yourself out of culture, pleasure, and intellectual stimulation merely because they don't contribute to the longevity of our species is probably one of the worst things a human being could possibly do."

You seem to be implying that because we have this intellectual ability we must use it because how beautiful culture, pleasure and intellectual stimulation is. You seem to be ignoring the fact that these sort of things are what got us into a shitty situation (imo). It also seems to show how egotistical humans are. We are more concerned about those elements in our lives than the world around us. Can you tell me how that isn't being egotistical as a species? Also we clearly aren't living harmoniously because of those reasons. So tell me once again, how is that not us being egotistical.

So basically, when you at 1 + 1, you get 2 right? So even if that isn't the exact words that you have said, it shows me (imo, I can't prove this, but it seems logical enough) that you are supporting humans being egotistical.

Also if you want more logical back up about my beliefs, please go read what I've been saying through out this thread. If you have a problem with something that I said, quote it and let me try and clarify.

Please don't try and insult me or dissect my reasoning for my beliefs in a friendly discussion such as this, that is just rude.

 

[Cloudy]

It's self-destructive as a human to want the human race to be eliminated, whether it is within your lifetime. Regardless of whether you want yourself to die, your self is still human, so to wish the extinction of all humans means to wish the extinction of your lineage, your continued heritage.



I am implying that all humans are connected, as we all obviously come from one another lol, so for any human to wish the extinction of our species I think is self-destructive. I am not placing you with everything, I am placing every human with all humans.

So yes I'm being somewhat metaphorical as I am saying self-destructive in the sense that our selves are all human, and as you do not wish yourself to die, but you want what your self is, human, to die off. It's a valid metaphor to say that a human wanting the extinction of humanity is self-destructive.

I just thought how similar this is to Michael Alig's character in the movie Party Monster saying he always thought he was self-destructive, even for being gay as he wouldn't have children and perpetuate his lineage. Without perpetuating your lineage you do not live on. I'm not homophobic but not having children is opposite of how nature perpetuates. I repeat I am not homophobic, but if he every human was gay it would be self-destructive in the sense that humans, as in who your self is, would not perpetuate. Just as wanting all humans to be extinct means that what your self is, human, would no longer perpetuate.


I'm not saying what humans do isn't self-destructive. I think we all know that we need to change. I, however put faith in the ingenuity and intelligence of the human mind and I do believe we will continue to evolve rather than wanting us to continue on our path of self-destruction as you seem to subscribe to. Why would you want us to self-destruct rather than use our minds to make the world a better place? You specifically say you want us to self-destruct, rather than saying you want us to progress. I would hope everyone would want us to evolve. Wanting us to self-destruct in 500 years, is self-destructive!

Don't be so cynical! I think you should recognize the gift of our intelligence and have some hope for humanity rather than wanting our species to die off!

I understand you reasoning on the self-destruct aspect. However, my self-destruct attitude based on what you are saying is completely justified in my eyes because I feel the destruction of our species as a whole on this planet is far more beneficial to the world than our species current mode of self-destruct. I rather preserve the earth than our species at this point.

Also, I don't want kids. I don't want to produce offspring in this sort of world, especially with the over population that we do have. It is more self--destructive at this point to continue to bring in new offspring in the numbers that we are than to produce kids.

I appreciate your optimism, but optimism only goes so far. I used to be optimist myself once, but the more and more I experience the world around me by the means of communicating with people or seeing there beliefs in action I become less hopeful in any sort of harmonious living on this planet. Our population has gone well above where it should be to be sustainable and especially well above where it should be to not have a huge impact on the wild life. I don't see how we can get away from that with technology. Sure we can move off into other worlds, but that doesn't solve the current problem on earth. Sure we can come up with reusable energy sources, but doesn't stop the problem of the lack of space and the exponential growth of the human population. IMO we have gone to far with no turning back. I know I can't say this for sure given that the future hasn't happened, but it is the most logical prediction in my eyes.

 

[Divine Moments]

I feel the destruction of our species as a whole on this planet is far more beneficial to the world than our species current mode of self-destruct. I rather preserve the earth than our species at this point.

I don't agree with you that humans should not exist, but you make a reasonable point. Given the current direction of things it seems likely that we'll end ourselves by destroying the Earth around us, thus potentially destroying life itself (on this planet at least). But still, I don't see this as a reason to choose the existence of a planet over that of the only known (to us) sentient race. You may not value it, but I imagine most people do. Rather I see it as a motive to change the way we live. I wouldn't go so far as to reverting to a hunter/gatherer society, but perhaps for once more technology isn't the answer...

 

[Shambles]

I do love the way our lil debates twist and turn here in Swirlsville

Cloudy: Without wishing to put words in your mouth, would you think it acceptable to release some virus that would kill every human being on Earth tomorrow? Assuming it left all other life untouched. What's the difference between saying you'd like to see the human race extinct 500 years from now and saying we all deserve to die right here and now?

 

[fastandbulbous]

If I had the choice I'd resort back to a primitive life style (hunter gather) or just be some other animal. Modern humans aren't worth the air they breath imo.

Therefore you'vejust devalued your own opinion. Rather a self defeating arguement!

 

[B9]

Psychedelics are like trees/cats/icebergs - they just are.


morning f & b

 

[romsoccer12]

lets say there were no humans, sooner or later an animal would become intelligent like we are. lets just say the human population dies off again like cloudy wanted it. sooner or later another animal would evolutinize into an intelligent being like us. we are part of nature, we are animals, just smart animals. what cloudy wants will get us nowhere except maintaining earth.