adulterants in ecstasy

[spok]

of interest to me: ketamine, heroin, cocaine, lsd and anything else you have heard of.....pharmaceutical grade pain killers, random industrial chemicals etc and their effects

i understand for the most part it isn't logical to adulterate ecstasy with any of those popular names mentioned above as it isn't economical, as they have a higher street value if sold under their own name

however that assumes that the people who have access to these things are making totally logical decisions. sometimes these people use too much of their own stuff, combined with a lifestyle that has them under almost constant threat losing their freedom for the better part of their lives if they make a single mistake it can make them unstable folks

someone who's producing ecstasy could also be importing heroin for next to nothing, and might not give a shit about the profit they lose by throwing a single brick in with their pill mix. a lot of the time they have a "fuck 'em they'll still buy it" attitude towards the end user, and will do stupid things like adulterate pills with whatever regardless of it's toxicity just for a laugh

obviously for the most part this isn't the case, but it happens

perhaps botched mdma synthesis attempts could also explain a few random reactions people have to pills from time to time

a couple of questions i wanted to ask,

i remember reading that the required oral dose of ketamine for a noticeably effect makes it an improbable adulterant in ecstasy, how does that work?

can lsd be produced in powder form which would make it easier for people to put into ecstasy if they decided to do so for whatever reason?

does anyone know of any particular stage of an mdma synthesis or potential fuck up of said synthesis which might lead to mdea type effects?

and finally one nasty reaction to adulterated pills i've heard of a couple of times now is people seeing a grey mist in the air and getting a disassociated feeling similar to dxm or ketamine, however it didn't seem to have a tranquilizing effect. they were still able to walk around and do stuff, just felt very lost in their own head....anyone have a hint what that substance could have been?

 

[wappedout]

piperazine. mcpp, bzp and the rest of that horrible family of drugs
it seems now that nearly almost every pill in the UK and ireland are adulterated with these except for maybe 8 or 9 differnt mdma batchs which are quite rare to come across and only small numbers of them are produced compared to probably between 15-20 piperazine batches which seem to come in very large batches as ther is no sign of them going away

 

[shienar]

i remember reading that the required oral dose of ketamine for a noticeably effect makes it an improbable adulterant in ecstasy, how does that work? Just had a look at erowid and they are talking about a 50mg threshold dosage so if a pill is 250mg and probably requires probably 2/3 of it being binder you start to run out of room for the proper goodies.

can lsd be produced in powder form which would make it easier for people to put into ecstasy if they decided to do so for whatever reason? LSD is mainly handled as a solution because of the low dosages and the losses that you would suffer if even .5% of your stuff stayed on the vial or baggy.

does anyone know of any particular stage of an mdma synthesis or potential fuck up of said synthesis which might lead to mdea type effects? MDEA I think is the result of starting the synth with a different amine. But phase hopefully will provide a better answer.

Hope that helps

 

[Smoifer]

Common adulterants; caffeine, meth/speed, dxm, bzp, mcpp, different anti depressants... There are heaps mate, you'd be hard pressed to write a list as there are more things being pressed into pills all the time.

Heroin & Cocaine?In Aus no, elsewhere where they're not as expensive occasionally. mainly because it's just not cost effective and the extremely low bio availability of the two when taken orally means that you couldn't put a large enough dose into your standard size pill.

 

[filenet]

can lsd be produced in powder form which would make it easier for people to put into ecstasy if they decided to do so for whatever reason?

i wouldnt have beleived it unless i saw it with my own eyes but around circa 2001 there were a small batch of pills circulating adelaide that looked the norm yet when crushed unvieled ripped up peices of blotter.

 

[Smoifer]

To add to my list

4-Methylmethcathinone
Domperidone
Metoclopramide
2c-b
2C-I
Niacinamide
Procaine
Methylsulfonylmethane
3,4-methylenedioxymethylnitrostyrene
Dibenzylpiperazine
Isopropylbenzylamine


ecstasydata.org

 

[phase_dancer]

someone who's producing ecstasy could also be importing heroin for next to nothing, and might not give a shit about the profit they lose by throwing a single brick in with their pill mix. a lot of the time they have a "fuck 'em they'll still buy it" attitude towards the end user, and will do stupid things like adulterate pills with whatever regardless of it's toxicity just for a laugh

You've really answered this youreslf, but why would someone put something in pills, when it's worth many 100s/g when sold as it is, particularly when an orally active amount is something like 5-10x that used for IV, insufflation etc.? Also, the inevitable stomach upsets wouldn't be expected to impress the market it was aimed at.

Unless there's been some recent reports I haven't heard about, almost all reports of heroin in pills have involved trace amounts, probably due to container or bag contamination.

perhaps botched mdma synthesis attempts could also explain a few random reactions people have to pills from time to time

Perhaps, but MDMA can produce this kind of reaction even when pure, or close to pure. I once knew a girl who vomited every single time she had MDMA. No one else in her group suffered this sort of reaction. An interesting thing was reported to me around 2000. 2 batches of MDMA were circulating, although, as the story went, both were products of the same synthesis. One had the ketone distilled and one didn't. Guess what the more popular was? Believe it or not , it was the less pure product. So, what does that say about what the uneducated prefer? Is this step likely to be skipped by those wishing to make big bucks? Perhaps, as larger setups would probably require chilled water for the condenser and that could be more difficult to setup. Ultimately, it's an unknown, particularly when it comes to off white, or brown coloured MDMA (molly).

i remember reading that the required oral dose of ketamine for a noticeably effect makes it an improbable adulterant in ecstasy, how does that work?

Ketamine is orally active in dosages over about 30-40mg. That amount, or 4 x that easily fits in a regular tablet.

can lsd be produced in powder form which would make it easier for people to put into ecstasy if they decided to do so for whatever reason?

LSD would normally be initially prepared as a crystal (or ground up crystal i.e. powder) It is then dissolved in water or alcohol and sold as either liquid or applied to blotters, microdots etc. It could be put into tablets, however LSD is far more reactive a chemical than MDMA, and the LSD molecule can be destroyed easily by UV or elimination reactions e.g. Chlorine from tap water. Although rare, I believe it has possibly been found in pills. Some years ago green vitamin looking pills circulated around these parts. They all had a small brown spot, as if someone had applied some form of liquid. All user reports said LSD.

does anyone know of any particular stage of an mdma synthesis or potential fuck up of said synthesis which might lead to mdea type effects?

Thanks shienar, that's correct. Unless the amine used in the synth contained some ethylamine, then no MDEA would be produced by a botched synth. There could be an OTC synth for methylamine that produces ethylamine as a side reaction but I've not heard of such. See, the thing is, if the synth works at all, the product will contain at least some MDMA. Trace amounts of many things could be in that MDMA, some benign and some not so benign, such as dihydrosafrole and safrole itself, both identified as carcinogenic, the former likely being the far more dangerous. It is produced whenever safrole or iso is present during reduction of the imine, so any odour of safrole in tablets indicates the possible presence of both these compounds.

As said, impurities can alter the high, or at least one's perception of the high. Nausea can certainly do it. Have you had what you knew to be pure MDEA to compare the difference? Lack of MDMA type empathy and a heavier intoxication with higher dosages seem to be the most notable differences, yet a lack of empathy could be also be attributed to a low MDMA dose, or the pill also containing other drugs. Due to reasons surrounding sourcing of the amine, MDA is perhaps a more likely seen alternative..

mainly because it's just not cost effective and the extremely low bio availability of the two when taken orally means that you couldn't put a large enough dose into your standard size pill.

Yes it is less bio-available, but an active dose of 50-70mg as listed by Erowid could quite easily fit on a pill.

 

[Jakeperson]

i wouldnt have beleived it unless i saw it with my own eyes but around circa 2001 there were a small batch of pills circulating adelaide that looked the norm yet when crushed unvieled ripped up peices of blotter.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA, only in Adelaide.

 

[L3inad]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA, only in Adelaide.

I heard of something similar happening in Darwin just recently. Some of the suppossed "MD caps" (ie. 4mmc) getting around, if opened were revealed to have tiny peices of torn up paper in the powder, some of the chunks were even big enough to notice a print. Minced LSD tabs put into MD caps. What is the world coming to lol.

 

[mostly-human]

Heroin & Cocaine are basically inactive orally so economics aside, it is pretty much pointless adulterating with either of these.

I've certainly had pills adulterated with Ketamine, once this has become known I have snorted any remaining pills to get a better effect (of K).

Of active substances, (meth)amphetamines seems the most likely choice (and in the past, been quite a few years since i was taking E, I'd come across quite a few amphetamine+K combos). Speed is certainly cheaper than MDMA, as is Ketamine.. Also, so is LSD (I've actually had one pill, that when crushed had bit of a blotter tab inside it) and of course research chems like 2c-X can be much cheaper than MDMA - ultimately, when we are not talking bunk/dangerous pills - then it will be a substance that is economically viable. Often something that tries to mimic mdma (speed+K) (pips) (speed+dxm)

 

[mostly-human]

i wouldnt have beleived it unless i saw it with my own eyes but around circa 2001 there were a small batch of pills circulating adelaide that looked the norm yet when crushed unvieled ripped up peices of blotter.

OMG ! I just read your post after I made mine. UYES - 2001 was the exact year I crushed a pill in Melbourne to find bits of blotter inside (and was certainly active LSD too) other active substance prooved to mdxx. Yes the pills were better then :D

 

[spok]

You've really answered this youreslf, but why would someone put something in pills, when it's worth many 100s/g when sold as it is, particularly when an orally active amount is something like 5-10x that used for IV, insufflation etc.?

that wasn't a question......i was just bringing it up in line with the topic

there are plausible scenarios where heroin/cocaine could be added to pills, not for any logical reason, just because there are plausible scenarios where the logical alternative to it isn't significant enough for the producer to care

as i said, just for a laugh, people do stupid things all the time. and people in said line of work can often just be narcissistic

especially when you've got both heroin and cocaine coming in from the middle east at the moment where it's dirt cheap, it becomes more probable to happen in future.....

they might have just thrown away a couple of hundred grand in potential profit but not a loss, and it's spare change compared to the tens of millions in profit already in line

as you have pointed out it is historically very rare, and in those rare cases can probably be attributed to trace amounts from packaging and the like, and it will probably remain so in future

i have noticed however that there is a bit of a culture of people saying that it just isn't going to happen...probably because they really don't want to be ingesting a substance with the stigma attached to it that heroin does, but that isn't a realistic security, it might

it's just unlikely, so it's not honestly worth worrying about 1) because it's unlikely and 2) because even if it does happen to you it will probably be a one off, and you're not going to magically turn into a junkie anyway


RE: LDS in ecstasy

it's a recent pair of popular big thick white pills that popped up in sydney and melbourne with long lasting hallucinogenic effects that have aroused my curiosity on this subject

i can imagining a scenario where they have the means to produce lsd basically at their disposal for next to nothing but don't have the means to distribute it as lsd. if pills are their market, why not just press it in with their usual product and hock these "awesome" pills off to the highest bidders in a dry market

Unless the amine used in the synth contained some ethylamine, then no MDEA would be produced by a botched synth

that question was in relation to the alleged "mdea" in pills that have plagued the country recently. i wasn't suggesting an mdma synthesis could accidentally turn out as mdea. i'm just wondering if the effects of these pills which appear to be mdea could actually be attributed to an incomplete or botched attempt to produce mdma

i understand there are always going to be unique reactions to even pure mdma, but the effects of this alleged mdea are very widely reported

 

[Crankinit]

I'd be fucking furious if I bought a pill, dropped it, and ended up being dosed with LSD :/

In my experience the most common by far is methamphetamine. Ketamine I know happens, though it seems fairly rare. Caffeine is probably quite common. The various piperazines have been around lately, and 4mmc has been offered to me as MDMA many times, and I'm sure has found its way into pills as well.

One I found interesting was some pills I took with a mate the other weekend (pink atomics, for the SA people, though the logo wasn't distinguishable). He ate 2 or 3 and became visibly fucked up, he thought it was ketamine and appeared to be under the influence of something similar. So of course, thinking these pills were ketamine, myself and another friend decided to snort 3 of them the next morning. No discernable effect, except for a slight feeling of sedation (most akin to some kind of anithistamine).

I tested the pills, and they didn't come up positive for DXM, which was the next suspect on the list (is DXM active nasally?).

Quite odd really. That's what we get for buying pills in a club though.

 

[Smoifer]

Yes it is less bio-available, but an active dose of 50-70mg as listed by Erowid could quite easily fit on a pill.

Well i stand corrected

 

[Doorway]

I remember around 2002 there were these orange bermuda triangle pills going around and I'm pretty sure they acid.

 

[leigh86]

I'd be fucking furious if I bought a pill, dropped it, and ended up being dosed with LSD :/

Last weekend I had a reasonable number of pills on the 2nd night of a 3 day festival, hoping for a good kick of MD of course. After the first one I only had a slight speed rush and I figured each one was just a small dose of amphetamines, so me being an idiot at the time and a little annoyed at the fact I'd spent a lot of money on GARBAGE once again, I continued to dose every hour with a pill just to keep me going until at about the 3 or 4 hour mark, when I realised I was tripping HARD. Everyone around me turned on me and were acting weird because I was so fucked up. (They weren't really, this was all in my head.) So I was stuck in this situation of trying to act like I was OK when really I had no idea what was wrong with me.

I wouldn't say I'm a veteran at psychs but I've had my fair number of acid and mushrooms trips, and the fact I was tripping on a chemical which I had no understanding of how long it would last or what it's actually doing to me really freaked me out. I'd hate to know how a beginner pill taker would feel if they were caught in the state of mind I was. It took over 24 hours for the visuals to disappear. At one stage I thought I was done for, I felt like I'd fried something in my brain and was going to be in that mind state of insanity forever.

Edit: Just thought I'd add, I still have no idea what these pills were adulterated with. Looking at the DOB details on erowid pretty much matches the experience I had exactly, but is that possible?

 

[Jakeperson]

Its not impossible. Have heard of "chinese acid caps" going around Adelaide atm. Could be whatever is in that. Most likely a 2C, but it sounds pretty full on from descriptions.

Haven't been game enough to try them to see if I can find out what they are.

 

[hyroller]

Where's that newspaper spread that cropped up a little while back, which contained a whole 2-page chart of different pills and listed their active ingredients? Or, to be specific, what were being passed off as pills... I remember some were steroids, or had no MDxx content because they were another drug entirely.
It also talked of the dangers the individual adulterants could pose when mixed with whatever sort of MDxx content the separate pills contained.

Anyone else remember it??

 

[Verybuffed]

^^
It's on here somewhere I think.

 

[hyroller]

this thread appears to have broken down and enlarged the items on the spread... seems this topic has been widely discussed on BL and in AusDD

hence why it pays to own a test kit, and to keep abreast of any police seizures and user reports of any potentially dangerous batches...

knowledge is power. and it's as much as us regular, non-scientist punters can do!