The War On Drugs Is A War On Culture

[love_sex_desire]

I'm going to go with that at its core the psych "counter-culture" or "culture", whatever you want to call it, is absolute no different than the "Joe Six-pack" culture that the main stream have.

At it's core psychedelic culture is the complete antithesis of mainstream culture. They are polar opposites from my view of these two cultures. That is why it is called a counter-culture, it directly counters the mainstream culture, rather than conforming to mainstream culture.

Both gossip and back stab. Both become greedy and elitist. Both tend to become narrow minded and unwilling to even entertain other ideas that may not agree with theirs. It's the same thing, except with different clothing. What's more dangerous, becoming too materialistic or demanding that humanity return nature and live in communal farms. Both have their pros and cons and these weigh differently depending on your values.

All humans are inherently somewhat greedy, yes. I however would not say that the majority of people that align themselves with the counter-culture are narrow minded. Psychedelics, for many people, help expand their awareness as psychedelics open your mind to a vast array of stimuli and by offering a contrasting state of consciousness, psychedelics can help put your conditioned mind into perspective. I would say psychedelics have helped open my mind, not closed it. And clothing has little do with the fundamental aspects of culture. Culture is shared values, and al though many cultures have distinct clothing, a counter-culture embedded within a mainstream culture rarely has much difference in the way of clothing. Believe it or not, many modern day counter-culturalists are not tie-dyed, long hair hippies that want us to live on communal farms. Many in fact are scientists, psychologists, philosophers, or simply people that see that their is something fundamentally wrong with Western culture. Through the use of science and information, rather than scare tactics and mis-information, some of these modern day counter-culturalists are dedicating their lives to expose the deceit we have been spoon-fed, so humanity can use accurate information to help progress our entire species.

We're programmed a lot less than one might think. Information is readily available to anyone. That's a fact. It's not like we have heavily suppressed or banned book. Whether you want inform yourself about psychadelic drugs and therapy, learning why we have a War Drugs, or what drugs really do your body. It's all there.

Information IS available, and forums like this and research by organizations such as MAPS have helped to create a new paradigm for psychedelic research and we are on the right track of using scientific information and harm reduction to utilize these substances for their psychotherapeutical and spiritual benefit. The problem is these substances have been demonized and stigmatized for so long that al though information IS available, most of society has been conditioned to ignore this information. Most doctors don't even know what MDMA or LSD truly are, other than "harmful" illegal drugs. The information is there, but cultural pressures have marginalized, suppressed and discredited this information. Al though books are not banned, the information in many books has been discredited through campaigns to demonize psychedelics. Many scientists working on psychedelic research have had to jeopardize their entire careers and credibility for legitimate research because of the mass conditioned and stigmatized nature of how we view psychedelics. THAT'S a fact.

The real problem is that a lot of what counter-cultures believe in is not sustainable long term. As people we want to advance and get more. It's a basic human trait and even applies to animals, materialism that is.

You say as people we want to advance and get more. What you imply is advancement is only done through materialism. I personally want to advance and get more in the context of knowledge and spirituality. Increased knowledge and awareness of spirituality are the fundamental building blocks of evolution, not advanced materialism which only separates us from nature.

To say that the real problem is that counter-culture values are not sustainable is completely msinformed! It is current mainstream cultural values that are not sustainable! We are seeing a wider gap between the rich and the poor, al though this is due to the fact that the rich keep getting exponentially richer in our capitalistic material driven society. Mass materialism has led to mass depression and rates of depression are significantly higher in societies that emphasize materialistic competition. Our environment is becoming increasingly degraded through our widespread use of fossil fuels and non-biodegradable plastics. Counter-culture is looking to do the opposite by looking to create a sustainable culture, both psychologically and environmentally, through scientific evidence and logic! The state of affairs in the world is highly illogical! America spends trillions on wars to fight enemies that wouldn't exist if they used that money to help feed and clothe and educate every child on this planet. The military-industrial complex has a stranglehold on America, as evident by perpetual war after perpetual war. Vietnam, the Cold War, the now more than 8 year war in Afghanistan. Al of these wars are designed to perpetuate, to keep fueling the military-industrial complex and keep citizens in fear of a foreign enemy. Counter-culturalists also want to advance and get more. The majority simply want to advance with accurate information and get more through knowledge rather than material gain. Everyone wants to advance and get more, some ways of "advancing" are actually retrograde, such as material advancement, while others look for advancement through accurate information.

For instance, you'll see animals compete to be better or have better nests to attract a mate. The same for people.

An animal competing to have a better nest is not the same as cultures competing to see who can consume the most or who can produce more nuclear weapons to destroy the Earth however many more times over. The American government has produced enough nuclear weapons to destroy every city, along with America, hundreds of times over. This is one example of how utterly insane and unsustainable our present society is run. What values that counter-culturalists hold dear that is not sustainable? I don't think there are any that can compare to magnitude of unsustainability that our current culture has created. A lot has changed since the '60s counter-culture. A lot of the ideas of living on communal farms is not the ideology of most modern counter-culturalists. Nature is a huge part of my thinking, and I believe we have been disconnected from nature, but rather than going back technologically I believe we should be using technology to help progress the evolution of mankind. Modern day culture is very backward on the other hand. We still "swear" on the bible in court while maintaining that church and state are separate. I remember demanding my friends to "swear" to God if I didn't believe them when I was 10 years old, as if that would somehow force them to tell the truth. How backwards thinking is that? Many poeople deny the scientific evidence of evolution! The most fundamental aspect of nature, to better oneself, is outright denied by many within our current culture! I'm not saying we should go backwards and go back to living on farms, I'm saying we should look at the backwardness of our current culture, and progress forwards using scientific evidence, technology and spiritual advancement to help the evolution of all humankind.

Anyway, I'll end it here. I just got some solid tweak and I could write a book, so I'll stop.

To suggest that counter-cultural values are not sustainable, and by doing so, implying that current mainstream cultural values are somehow more sustainable only to mention you're high on speed has only strengthened my subjective (al though scientifically proven) understanding that speed is a highly toxic and psychosis-inducing drug. IMO much worse for the body and mind than LSD is for an emotionally and mentally stable person. I have flirted and dabbled with both, but I must give my personal recommendation for psychedelics over speed any day. Just my 2 cents.

 

[arthunter888]

The ego will direct the destruction of humanity

It takes little to see that modern mainstream North American culture is simply sick. People dying from obesity while others starve. There is something inherently wrong with this culture, and it takes little de-conditioning to understand how truly brainwashed, from the start of the public school system, this culture has become. I can only hope the marginalized counter-culture throughout all of it's incarnations will mobilize before the self-destruction of mankind under the grip of America, the only true "rogue" state, policing the world, for the benefit of the few.

^^This was articulated fairly well. Okay, I will agree that "mainstream" American is just as much of a culture as counter-culture. But I will say that I find mainstream culture to be WAY more toxic than counter-culture, here is why: In short, American mainstream culture focuses on a certain type of conditioning that entails developing, building, and sustaining the individual EGO. It is the ego that justifies killing people for profit, putting people in cages because their values differ, achieving personal gain from another's loss, etc. The ego is responsible for most of the atrocities that are plaguing America, and the ego lies to you and distorts your perception of what the facts of a situation are.

I will agree that the ego was created by nature, and that it is necessary for the survival of a being. BUT, we have pushed the ego beyond it's extent that is needed for survival. The ego is for things like [when you go out to dinner with a friend, you put your food in your mouth, and (s)he puts his/her food in his/her mouth]. In mainstream culture, the ego has been ballooned out of proportion, it has been turned into an accessory for personal display, a highly addictive drug that produces pleasure: "Look at ME, ME, ME, and my five cars, mansion, and shiny jewelry. I'm the king, and you are a nobody." just listen to a popular hip-hop song and you'll see this, which just so happens to be a product of mainstream culture! This is extremely toxic, because when thinking like this you are acting in the interest of yourself, not the collectivity of humans. Just look at crime rates: the crime rates of the US are so ridiculously high, no doubt in my mind because of ego. For example, Canadians IME tend to be more humble than Americans, and their crime rates are substantially lower. Positive Evolution cannot happen when the focus is the self, positive evolution betters the lives of all/most individuals of a species.

The advantage of counter-culture (or any culture that's not addicted to egotism) is that their ego is not as out-of-control as mainstream culture (how often do you see a hippie speeding down the road with flashy spinners and a loud as muffler and bass system?). Sure it is impossible to dissolve the ego for good, but an occasional psychedelic trip can temporarily dissolve the ego, and the implications of experiencing such a state can last indefinitely longer than the actual drug does. Psyches tend to lift the veil the ego lays over our perception, and therefore show us that the human experience is collective, and show us how little each of us actually is in the big picture.

I think it is very important to be frighteningly humbled every now and then, to keep the ego in check and therefore expose the distortions it creates. I do think that humility is essential to clearing our brainwashed minds (in the form of psyches, meditation, martial arts, or anything that challenges the luxury of the ego). It is true that psychedelics are not for everyone, but this should not in all fairness mean that those people have the right to make decisions for others (another ego-driven practice) based on their personal preferences. I think everyone who is mentally stable should try psyches at least once and make their own conclusions instead of blindly believing the views imposed on them by the majority.

 

[love_sex_desire]

^^I agree with the effects of inflated egos on our culture.

"Our ego is essential for our every day survival. Biologically, humans have evolved with strong egos. At the same time we must also have a sense of community and togetherness. In the increasingly sub-compartmentalized, categorized and individualistic, self-serving society I was born within, ego loss can be a very useful tool to balance the ever increasing ego and ever decreasing sense of community in our globalized yet compartmentalized and dehumanized society."

This is from a post I made yesterday regarding the benefits of ego-death (induced by psychedelics).

The thread link is here:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=7808942#post7808942

As I was thinking about this cultural subject I was thinking of the implications of temporary ego-death. I'm glad arthunter888 brought up the role of inflated egos in our current cultural paradigm.

Arthunter888 mentions that those in the counter-culture do not have as out-of-control of an ego as mainstream culture, and the reason behind this is evident when one looks at ego loss associated with psychedelics. Any one interested should definitely look at the thread link.

 

[It's a baby!]

I don't think it is right to phrase it so broadly.

It is a war on *some* cultures but not others.

We caucasians, for example, don't have history of drug-use. We've drank for a long time but that's about it. Drug-use in white people is a fairly recent thing. I mean sure there are old example here and there but generally speaking the whites have drunk and not much else.

Africans . . . ehh they didn't really start smoking the ganj until the colonial era when they were introduced to hemp.

I'd say Mexicans for sure though, they had a culture of using cannabis, and the CHinese used to use a lot of opium, or some did anyway, but that's no longer the case.

I don't see how the war on drugs is a war on any culture but drug-using ones

If anything I'd argue that drugs tend to lead to a decadence of culture, but I know y'all won't agree with me on that. I think that drug-use and alcohol-abuse are generally "bad things" and I don't think it'd be a good thing if everyone was a druggie.

 

[arthunter888]

There seems to be a confusion over the use of the word "culture." The first thing to come to mind for most is ethnographic cultures, which is not entirely the target of the drug war.

I think it may be more accurate to say that...

the War On Drugs is a war against the cultural products of drugs.

By this I mean that a frequent psychedelic user in America, and a frequent psychedelic user in India, while from very different societal cultures, both may have acquired the same elements of psychedelic culture (such as ego loss, communal recognition, etc.). Therefore, culture can apply to societal environment, or can apply to common behaviors/traits. Having said this, I believe the war on drugs attempts to battle the common behaviors/traits of individuals who use "drugs."

 

[largeamount]

the war on drugs is unnecessary and harmful
in some areas it literally creates war over drugs like at the mexican border where smugglers get into shootouts with both local mexican police and US border patrol. There are many unnecessary deaths from trying to prevent the inevitable. it is sad that the politicians can make the decisions that force the less fortunate people who cant find better jobs than law enforcement and have to risk their lives over something so little as drugs. but i guess thats only how it seems in reality the laws are all about money and trying to maintain americas power and deny the prosperity of south american countries
oh well

 

[It's a baby!]

There seems to be a confusion over the use of the word "culture." The first thing to come to mind for most is ethnographic cultures, which is not entirely the target of the drug war.

I think it may be more accurate to say that...

the War On Drugs is a war against the cultural products of drugs.

By this I mean that a frequent psychedelic user in America, and a frequent psychedelic user in India, while from very different societal cultures, both may have acquired the same elements of psychedelic culture (such as ego loss, communal recognition, etc.). Therefore, culture can apply to societal environment, or can apply to common behaviors/traits. Having said this, I believe the war on drugs attempts to battle the common behaviors/traits of individuals who use "drugs."

Hmm I understand this perspective but I think you might be oversimplifying things a bit.

For example, how important are psychedelics in Hinduism? There was the Soma thing from the iron age but afaik it ended there.

Drugs have an effect on culture, certainly, but I don't think it's a significant enough effect to call the war on drugs a war on culture, particularly in this society where the "drug culture" isn't much to speak of (no offense to anyone here, I'm in it too, just my opinion).

I've known plenty of druggies in my day and they don't seem any wiser than the average person. In fact if anything they can be pretty delusional (again no offense, this doesn't go for all drug-users).

I just don't see how drugs have a really big effect on the way our culture works, but I look forward to others' responses.

 

[love_sex_desire]

I don't think it is right to phrase it so broadly.

It is a war on *some* cultures but not others.

All cultures use drugs. Alcohol is a drug, it just so happens that in the white-dominated aftermath of colonialism the only major drug that hasn't been demonized is alcohol. Coincidence?

We caucasians, for example, don't have history of drug-use. We've drank for a long time but that's about it. Drug-use in white people is a fairly recent thing. I mean sure there are old example here and there but generally speaking the whites have drunk and not much else.

Al though white culture wasn't the only culture to historically not use (now) illegal drugs, white people are a small minority on the entire globe. Al though the war on drugs hasn't targeted every culture, it has targeted almost all cultures that use different drugs than white culture has used through recent history. Not to mention sub-cultures within all cultures, including white culture, who have made fairly harmless drugs like marijuana and psychedelics a part of their culture after the start of the war on drugs with the advent of LSD.

I don't see how the war on drugs is a war on any culture but drug-using ones

If we look at history, most cultures have always used certain drugs. The war on drugs is very recent, so now that most cultures traditional drug use has been suppressed, it seems like the war on drugs is not a war on any culture, but drug-using ones. Many cultures use drugs, including white people. It's incorrect to say the war on drugs isn't a war on any culture but drug-using ones. It's more accurate to say the war on drugs is a war on any culture that doesn't use white man's preferred drug (alcohol).

 

[love_sex_desire]

Hmm I understand this perspective but I think you might be oversimplifying things a bit.

For example, how important are psychedelics in Hinduism? There was the Soma thing from the iron age but afaik it ended there.

I don't think arthunter888 was implying that psychedelics are necessarily an important part of Hindu culture, I think he meant that those within different cultures can share similar experiences from the use of drugs within their entirely different cultures, and to that extent they share come commonality.

Drugs have an effect on culture, certainly, but I don't think it's a significant enough effect to call the war on drugs a war on culture, particularly in this society where the "drug culture" isn't much to speak of (no offense to anyone here, I'm in it too, just my opinion).

I just don't see how drugs have a really big effect on the way our culture works, but I look forward to others' responses.

illegal "drug culture" isn't as much to speak of because of it's suppression, but nightlife and club culture is a huge aspect of many cultures. Alcohol definitely has a significant effect on culture, so I think it is incorrect to say drugs don't have a big effect on the way our culture works. Drugs are not the entirety of culture of course, but they are a significant cultural indicator for different aspects of culture. I think it was arthunter888 who said earlier that if you look at the drugs a society tolerates, it will tell you a lot about that society. Coffee is tolerated because it isn't very recreational and it promotes productivity in our consumer-driven capitalist society. Alcohol is tolerated because it is neurotoxic and traditional for white people, and it clouds the mind and can make people unaware. The more unaware you are, the more apathetic you become. Apathy is essential if a government wants to control society.

I've known plenty of druggies in my day and they don't seem any wiser than the average person. In fact if anything they can be pretty delusional (again no offense, this doesn't go for all drug-users).

I don't think anyone is implying that druggies are wiser than the average person, but I will say that an average person that uses psychedelics for mental exploration is much wiser than an average person who uses alcohol. The cultural use of ayahuasca and peyote is much more significant and meaningful than the cultural use of alcohol.

I specifically made the title as broad as possible to get the broadest range of responses, so al though I don't think the war on drugs is a war on all aspects of all cultures, I do think it is significantly a war on aspects of culture.

 

[love_sex_desire]

Africans . . . ehh they didn't really start smoking the ganj until the colonial era when they were introduced to hemp.

I'd say Mexicans for sure though, they had a culture of using cannabis, and the CHinese used to use a lot of opium, or some did anyway, but that's no longer the case.

I don't see how the war on drugs is a war on any culture but drug-using ones

If anything I'd argue that drugs tend to lead to a decadence of culture, but I know y'all won't agree with me on that. I think that drug-use and alcohol-abuse are generally "bad things" and I don't think it'd be a good thing if everyone was a druggie.

Just wanted to point out that the Bwiti culture of of Africa uses Iboga traditionally.

I don't think anyone would imply that it would be a good thing if everyone was a druggie. Drugs can be "bad things", opium and alcohol are some of the most harmful traditional drugs IMO. "Druggie" is such a perojative term, I think drugs should be used responsibly and ceremonially.

There is some evidence that opium and marijuana were targeted because of the Mexican and Oriental immigrants coming into America, and there is no doubt that America initiated and leads the aggressive campaign against drug use, both modern and traditional. I'm not implying everyone being a "druggie" is a good thing, but traditional responsible use of drugs can be very positive IMO. It's also completely hypocritical for marijuana to be illegal but alcohol to be tolerated. It seems like the war on drugs has to be a war on some people, as alcohol would also be illegal if the war on drugs was a war for people's safety, and not a war on aspects of some cultures.

edit: I just noticed this wikipedia page which is not on cultural use of drugs, but the traditional use of entheogens specifically. IMO the traditional use of entheogens is very positive in many ways, but culturally it is positive in building common spiritual identities within a society. This is a good example of what I believe to be the positive cultural use of drugs throughout the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen#Cultural_use