Accept the facts – and end this futile 'war on drugs'

Never understand

If everyone here is on board with the fact that drugs are controlled by some pretty terrible people, then why does anyone want to be a part of that? Is getting high that important? Can't you just drink some booze and call it good?

Would you take a gun and shoot someone in the head? If you wouldn't do that, why would you put money in the pockets of people that torture, kill, and harm other people? You know what the drug cartels do, so why give them your money to do it? Just so you can get high? Catch a buzz? How pathetic is that? Just because you don't see all the ugliness make no mistake that those out there using illegal drugs are contributing to the pain and suffering of others, most of which are far less fortunate than most on this message board.

As long as its illegal the people that use are involved in a lifestyle that causes nothing but pain and suffering for thousands. Go out and read what's happening in Columbia, in Mexico, and Asia because of drugs. Are you all really OK with that?

So lets say all of you are right. That all drugs should be legal, and that governments have it wrong. Is it anyone else's fault other than your own that people are tortured and killed if you are funding that.

So please, all of you out there, don't act as if you are so enlightened when all you do is show apathy (at best) towards the current situation.

Unless you live on a desert island and don't have any relationships with anyone else, whether you like it or not, your actions effect people that are close to you and that are on the other side of the planet. Do you ever ask yourself, "Will the world be a better place on this day because I am on this planet?", "Will anyone end up suffering as a result of my actions on this day?"

Your arguments are as weak and pathetic as your consideration for life and the wellbeing of others. Its disgusting.
 
ItIsntJustAboutYou said:
If everyone here is on board with the fact that drugs are controlled by some pretty terrible people, then why does anyone want to be a part of that? Is getting high that important? Can't you just drink some booze and call it good?

Would you take a gun and shoot someone in the head? If you wouldn't do that, why would you put money in the pockets of people that torture, kill, and harm other people? You know what the drug cartels do, so why give them your money to do it? Just so you can get high? Catch a buzz? How pathetic is that? Just because you don't see all the ugliness make no mistake that those out there using illegal drugs are contributing to the pain and suffering of others, most of which are far less fortunate than most on this message board.

As long as its illegal the people that use are involved in a lifestyle that causes nothing but pain and suffering for thousands. Go out and read what's happening in Columbia, in Mexico, and Asia because of drugs. Are you all really OK with that?

So lets say all of you are right. That all drugs should be legal, and that governments have it wrong. Is it anyone else's fault other than your own that people are tortured and killed if you are funding that.

So please, all of you out there, don't act as if you are so enlightened when all you do is show apathy (at best) towards the current situation.

Unless you live on a desert island and don't have any relationships with anyone else, whether you like it or not, your actions effect people that are close to you and that are on the other side of the planet. Do you ever ask yourself, "Will the world be a better place on this day because I am on this planet?", "Will anyone end up suffering as a result of my actions on this day?"

Your arguments are as weak and pathetic as your consideration for life and the wellbeing of others. Its disgusting.
Click to expand...

I really confused as to who you're addressing with that last comment.

If you're talking to people like myself (and many on BL), well, here's your response.

That's why we want it legalized....
You can't blame the users for a major trend in global crime. There are far more users than are members of this website, who use for different reasons. Many use because it's a means of escape from a world which they see no hope in, and because they aren't educated to understand how bad it is for them. Do you blame them? The causes of drug use are too far reaching and too hard for simple government policy to understand and cope with. If drugs were legalized, and the taboo associated with them removed, people could see them for what they are: dangerous substances that CAN BE and ARE used with caution and respect.

Instead of blaming one small part of a global problem, I like to look at the one variable that can help solve the problem: prohibition.
 
ItIsntJustAboutYou said:
...why would you put money in the pockets of people that torture, kill, and harm other people?...
Click to expand...

You are referring to drug cartels but this also accurately describes government. Suppose people simply grow their own for personal consumption? This takes all the air out of your arguments about drug use enriching gangsters.

"You wanna get rid of drug crime in this country? Fine, let's just get rid of all the drug laws." - Ron Paul
 
What you've said takes nothing away from the fact that any one user does in fact contribute to and participate in dealings that causes lots of harm and pain for a lot of people (many of which don't want anything to do with drugs).

So basically you are saying that you are against a "major trend in global crime", but only if the governments of the world have to deal with the mess, and that you yourself (addressing anyone that uses here) accept no responsibility for the fact that YOUR use keeps the misery going. What's worse is that drugs are by no means a necessity in life. Everyone's use and/or abuse remains a choice (with the exception of those already addicted).

YOU want it legalized so you don't have to stand in a bathroom stall and snort a line, or drive to a shady part of town to get your stuff, or take risk getting in trouble with the law, or risk putting something in your body that you have no idea how it was produced or if someone had to sh*t it out after they got off a plane before you put it up your nose.

Please, please, please, don't act as if your main intention is to help reduce crime, or help those with substance problems. It happens that it might be a convenient positive for you to rest your argument on, when all you really want is not to have such a hassle getting your stuff. If you actually did care about people that suffer from the illegal global drug trade, you'd say, "You know what, I don't really want to be a part of this because it is horrific and disgusting", but you don't say that do you? You just keep on using and not worry about who you are harming because getting high is more important.

With the exception of those addicted, NO ONE (no matter how miserable) has the right to do ANYTHING that imposes negatives on anybody else. Especially when its something so pathetic as doing something that is solely for pleasure or escape.

Don't dare try and excuse yourself from culpability or responsibility for all the harm that is caused by drugs. Anybody that is still at a point as to whether or not they can choose to use is at fault.

Do you guys ever ask yourself questions like, "Would I want my kids to do this?", "Would I want my family knowing I am doing this?", "Would I want my son/daughter to date someone like me?".

Again Moonmixer the YOU in this post isn't "you", its anyone who uses those drugs that cause pain and suffering and misery for friends, family, or people halfway around the world.
 
Huaca said:
You are referring to drug cartels but this also accurately describes government. Suppose people simply grow their own for personal consumption? This takes all the air out of your arguments about drug use enriching gangsters.

"You wanna get rid of drug crime in this country? Fine, let's just get rid of all the drug laws." - Ron Paul
Click to expand...

There is no "air" taken out of my argument, because as far as I can tell, my argument is spot on as to how things are happening today.

Anyone can shift things around to prove or disprove an argument, but why don't you take a look at the way things actually are today and then adjust your behavior accordingly. Or is it easier to keep getting high and say, "they really should legalize drugs...." and not worry about all those who are harmed.
 
Huaca said:
^^ Your post makes more sense if the word "drugs" is changed to "alcohol".
Click to expand...

Always love this about users. They go back to their age old argument, "alcohol is a drug too".

Great. Fine. Alcohol is a drug used for social/recreational purposes. Are we done?

The difference is that NOW, TODAY, most other drugs aren't (depending on where in the world we are).

So, sure, maybe the model that we have for alcohol is a great one that can or could be applied to other drugs.

However, that is NOT how the world works TODAY, so, quit talking about alcohol.

The facts are that many illegal drugs cause lots of pain and anguish for lots of people, and there are clearly many selfish apathetic people out there that don't mind getting high even if people elsewhere suffer because of it.

If its so important to you guys to take drugs, why not switch to alcohol. You can get plenty effed up on alcohol, and you won't have to worry that people are dying in 3rd world countries, just so that you could catch a buzz.

I wonder, for example, how many people in the US (where I live) would still do coke, if it meant that their loved ones (or they themselves) had to live Juarez, Mexico, or Meddellin, Columbia?
 
Also, how many of you have seen the people you use with get into trouble or fall into addiction? Is there no sense of regret or remorse? Nothing that says, "Damn, I wish we never got into that because look at all the pain its caused my friend", or, "I wish I could have been the one that took a stand and said, you keep this up and we aren't friends anymore."

Any of you ever think of the positive impact you COULD have had? Doesn't that bother you?
 
People are not going to just stop doing drugs because of things that are happening in all these other countries, and even if the did it still wouldn't change the cruel things that are happening to all these people.. And even if they did the people in these wouldn't stop growing their coca to make the cocaine.. its how they live and survive over there.. its their business
 
Last edited:
suckmedry said:
People are not going to just stop doing drugs because of things that are happening in all these other countries, and even if the did it still wouldn't change the cruel things that are happening to all these people.. And even if they did the people in these wouldn't stop growing their coca to make the cocaine.. its how they live and survive over there.. its their business
Click to expand...

Many farmers that are growing coca or poppy are doing so because they are told they have no choice by people with guns. Warlords, etc..

Aside from all of that however the fact remains that despite knowing the horrific things that go on, people are selfish enough to forsake the wellbeing (sometimes the lives) of others just to get high. That seems pretty pathetic don't you think? And regardless of what changed to those elsewhere if people stopped using, the bottom line would be that those who stopped using would no longer be contributing to or involved with the pain and suffering.

You can't (or apparently you can) just say, "well people still may suffer, so its OK if I stay involved." More people should be saying, "regardless of what goes on or what would change, I don't want any part of the illegal drug trade because I know all the disgusting and harmful things that go on and until the drugs I like to use are legal where I live they aren't important enough for me to forsake he wellbeing of others." But that doesn't happen does it? Because getting high is more important than human life seemingly. That is one of the most pathetic choices that I can possibly fathom.
 
Its not like using cocaine or heroin is even directly related to you yourself cause others pain and misfortune in these countries although you do, in some cases cause it to the ones you love and most importantly yourself. And I'm not saying people may still suffer, they WILL, it is all these people know how to do. It is their way of life. These are say, their cash crop. Its never going to stop, somebody somewhere is going to be using these drugs and their going to be selling them.. Its never going to stop.
 
And I don't believe that drugs should be legalized, in any way. The only thing that should be legalized, is Marijuana. It is a harmless plant, and its treated as if its a hard drug and its not. That IMO is the only thing that should be legalized.
 
ItIsntJustAboutYou said:
What you've said takes nothing away from the fact that any one user does in fact contribute to and participate in dealings that causes lots of harm and pain for a lot of people (many of which don't want anything to do with drugs).

So basically you are saying that you are against a "major trend in global crime", but only if the governments of the world have to deal with the mess, and that you yourself (addressing anyone that uses here) accept no responsibility for the fact that YOUR use keeps the misery going. What's worse is that drugs are by no means a necessity in life. Everyone's use and/or abuse remains a choice (with the exception of those already addicted).

YOU want it legalized so you don't have to stand in a bathroom stall and snort a line, or drive to a shady part of town to get your stuff, or take risk getting in trouble with the law, or risk putting something in your body that you have no idea how it was produced or if someone had to sh*t it out after they got off a plane before you put it up your nose.

Please, please, please, don't act as if your main intention is to help reduce crime, or help those with substance problems. It happens that it might be a convenient positive for you to rest your argument on, when all you really want is not to have such a hassle getting your stuff. If you actually did care about people that suffer from the illegal global drug trade, you'd say, "You know what, I don't really want to be a part of this because it is horrific and disgusting", but you don't say that do you? You just keep on using and not worry about who you are harming because getting high is more important.

With the exception of those addicted, NO ONE (no matter how miserable) has the right to do ANYTHING that imposes negatives on anybody else. Especially when its something so pathetic as doing something that is solely for pleasure or escape.

Don't dare try and excuse yourself from culpability or responsibility for all the harm that is caused by drugs. Anybody that is still at a point as to whether or not they can choose to use is at fault.

Do you guys ever ask yourself questions like, "Would I want my kids to do this?", "Would I want my family knowing I am doing this?", "Would I want my son/daughter to date someone like me?".

Again Moonmixer the YOU in this post isn't "you", its anyone who uses those drugs that cause pain and suffering and misery for friends, family, or people halfway around the world.
Click to expand...

Do you buy any products without knowing, 100% where they came from and what conditions they were grown or produced under? Can you say with complete certainly that you've never supported child labor or underpaid factory workers or inhumane farms? Does nothing you consume-not out of necessity, but of personal need, desire, or standard of living-contribute to human suffering? If you say "No." you're in deep denial.

My guess, from the judgment and anger behind your posts and the sweeping generalizations and assumptions you're making about ANY person who uses ANY drug is that you have been hurt by someone who uses or have lost someone close to you as a result of drug abuse. My mother's an alcoholic; I get it. If you have experienced pain due to someone else's substance use my advice would be to reconsider projecting all that emotion-and venom-on other people who's reasons, stories and lives you know zilch about. Your experience is not universal.

Not all drugs are addictive; cigarettes and alcohol are statistically FAR more habit-forming than anything I've taken. I am not an addict, I am a very infrequent relatively inexperienced recreational-turned spiritual-user.

Take a deep breath and if you don't understand, ask.
 
I have never been hurt or lost anyone to drugs. I know a couple of alcoholics. I know people that I care about that have made bad choices (in my opinion) and used some dangerous stuff in dangerous ways. But haven't been hurt by their use.

There is a big difference between saying that a shirt I bought may have been made in a sweat shop and someone that uses cocaine. The main differences are, if someone said, "That shirt you bought was made in a sweat shop by people who are subjected to horrible working conditions", I would never ever by that brand of clothing ever again. I am no different. I have no right to do anything or cause harm to other people, and I strive daily to make sure that I do that at least.

But cocaine for example, because its illegal everywhere, it would be hard to argue that there isn't a very strong possibility that it came from a place where people are put through pain and suffering so cartels can make money. Yet, people knowing this continue to use. It isn't fair. They have no right because it negatively effects people that don't deserve it

The other main difference here is that while I may not have needed "that specific shirt" I reference above but I do need shirts. Nobody needs cocaine, except for those addicted.

Also, I am not just talking about farmers. I am talking about all the innocent people that get caught up in all the bullshit going on and end up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And sure, one user who quits using isn't going to stop anything from happening the way that it does. If they did however, they very rightly could say, I no longer knowingly contribute to the pain and suffering.

Just because there are so many people out there involved in the illegal drug trade as producers and consumers, doesn't mean that each person involved isn't contributing just a little bit to the pain and suffering of others. Just because things won't change if one person stops it doesn't mean that if that one person stopped that single act didn't have merit and/or virtue.

I honestly don't know how anyone who uses cocaine or heroin can possibly go through life without an extremely guilty conscience.

I live in a city where there are a lot of homeless people. When I go out of my way to make sure a homeless person gets a meal, I know it isn't going to end homelessness for the city I live in, and mostly likely won't for the single person that I helped. Despite all this, it doesn't mean that I didn't do the right thing. I am not saying this looking for praise or martyrdom, I am saying it because a single persons action whether or not it changes anything at all still holds merit if it is good and true.

Lots of people have that opportunity and all it would cost them is not being able to get high on drugs like cocaine and heroin. That really isn't asking for much is it?
 
The thing is, this isn't just a cocaine/heroin discussion website, there are a lot of illicit substances out there being used, both irresponsibly and not. What I take issue with is your generalizations and assumption that those reading your posts are lowlife users only interested in their next fix addicted to Y and Z.

I've never tried Cocaine or Heroin so I have no point of reference as to the appeal, and I don't believe I know anyone who uses either of those substances currently. Regardless, I don't consider myself in a position to judge why the high is important to them, how they prioritize their values, or if they're even aware or have given consideration to the production and distribution. It's kinda like most people and the food they consume; most would probably be horrified or at the minimum disturbed/disgusted at how meat makes it to their table, and many vegetarians and vegans would make a similar, "How can you live with yourself?" argument.

I think you'd be better off going the way of education, rather than judgement. "Hey, did you know that production of Y and Z drugs impacts countries, communities, children, the environment, etc. [this] way? What are your thoughts on that and what can consumers of these products who want to live more ethically do to make a difference?" Demonizing and judgement won't convince someone to listen to your line of reasoning anymore than a protester with a grotesque fetus picture shouting at a woman entering a health clinic is likely to change her mind; people have their lives and their reasons. If you go in guns-a-blazing you're just going to make people defensive, and the moment they see you as an enemy they'll stop listening.

Sometimes the best we can do is make things safer. And, like abortion "safe and legal" is the more logical way to go. Regulation, not prohibition.
 
ItIsntJustAboutYou said:
Lots of people have that opportunity and all it would cost them is not being able to get high on drugs like cocaine and heroin. That really isn't asking for much is it?
Click to expand...

I would venture to say that most people who make informed and safe decisions about their drug use choose not to even try heroin and cocaine. I know I never have, and never want to.


The generalizations you make offend me. I am not a "junkie", I am not dependent on any drug, and I am aware of the problems my drug use may cause. I just think that most of those problems are also due to the fact that the drugs I choose to use are also illegal, mostly. The illegality is what makes marijuana (and many other drugs) a major problem in our society; the drug itself is less harmful than nicotine and alcohol, which are both legal.
 
ItIsntJustAboutYou said:
If everyone here is on board with the fact that drugs are controlled by some pretty terrible people, then why does anyone want to be a part of that? Is getting high that important? Can't you just drink some booze and call it good?

Would you take a gun and shoot someone in the head? If you wouldn't do that, why would you put money in the pockets of people that torture, kill, and harm other people? You know what the drug cartels do, so why give them your money to do it? Just so you can get high? Catch a buzz? How pathetic is that? Just because you don't see all the ugliness make no mistake that those out there using illegal drugs are contributing to the pain and suffering of others, most of which are far less fortunate than most on this message board.

As long as its illegal the people that use are involved in a lifestyle that causes nothing but pain and suffering for thousands. Go out and read what's happening in Columbia, in Mexico, and Asia because of drugs. Are you all really OK with that?

So lets say all of you are right. That all drugs should be legal, and that governments have it wrong. Is it anyone else's fault other than your own that people are tortured and killed if you are funding that.

So please, all of you out there, don't act as if you are so enlightened when all you do is show apathy (at best) towards the current situation.

Unless you live on a desert island and don't have any relationships with anyone else, whether you like it or not, your actions effect people that are close to you and that are on the other side of the planet. Do you ever ask yourself, "Will the world be a better place on this day because I am on this planet?", "Will anyone end up suffering as a result of my actions on this day?"

Your arguments are as weak and pathetic as your consideration for life and the wellbeing of others. Its disgusting.
Click to expand...


Well, many governments kill, torture and harm other people. The possibility the government in your country is doing so is extremely high. But you still pay taxes, don't you? And I guess you even feel like a good citizen, fulfilled his duty to the society (correct me if I am wrong though).

Why do you pay your taxes then? Don't you feel horrible that many of them go directly to a governmental program which is used to harm people? And harm is not only by the illegal activities many, if not all, governments do but even goes up to the subsidies for enterprises, or agricultural sector (which btw is condemning an enormous amount of people on this planet to a slow, horrible starvation leading very often to death)

You do it for a reward! It doesn't matter if it's because you feel great being a "good" citizen and chose to ignore where your money goes, or because you are forced to by laws- you do it because you have a reason- yours, selfish reason!

Then why do you question the reasons people buy drugs? They are all the same, because people are the same- selfish! The problem here is how to make things work with the less possible harm to the biggest amount of people. You can't change human nature but you can perfectly fine learn to cope with it.
 
ItIsntJustAboutYou said:
If everyone here is on board with the fact that drugs are controlled by some pretty terrible people, then why does anyone want to be a part of that? Is getting high that important? Can't you just drink some booze and call it good?

Would you take a gun and shoot someone in the head? If you wouldn't do that, why would you put money in the pockets of people that torture, kill, and harm other people? You know what the drug cartels do, so why give them your money to do it? Just so you can get high? Catch a buzz? How pathetic is that? Just because you don't see all the ugliness make no mistake that those out there using illegal drugs are contributing to the pain and suffering of others, most of which are far less fortunate than most on this message board.

As long as its illegal the people that use are involved in a lifestyle that causes nothing but pain and suffering for thousands. Go out and read what's happening in Columbia, in Mexico, and Asia because of drugs. Are you all really OK with that?

So lets say all of you are right. That all drugs should be legal, and that governments have it wrong. Is it anyone else's fault other than your own that people are tortured and killed if you are funding that.

So please, all of you out there, don't act as if you are so enlightened when all you do is show apathy (at best) towards the current situation.

Unless you live on a desert island and don't have any relationships with anyone else, whether you like it or not, your actions effect people that are close to you and that are on the other side of the planet. Do you ever ask yourself, "Will the world be a better place on this day because I am on this planet?", "Will anyone end up suffering as a result of my actions on this day?"

Your arguments are as weak and pathetic as your consideration for life and the wellbeing of others. Its disgusting.
Click to expand...
first of all, you're fuckin trolling

second, it's my duty to break totally absurd, harmful, unjust laws

third, alcohol doesnt cut it when i want a drug that can constructively enhance my life, intellectualism, creativity, and insight into relationships and life in general. alcohol is a destructive drug. so no,i'm not just going to drink alcohol and "call it good". if any drug should be illegal, it's alcohol

fourth, if drugs were legal, the money would not have to go into bad people's hands, or to other countries and terrorists and cartels

fifth, most drug money doesnt anyway; it goes to INSIDE america,diverted pharmaceuticals and marijuana lovers that grow it in their homes. or to mexico, which NEEDs our money anyway (we are sorta propping up third world countries by buying drugs; if we didn't, a lot of societies and cultures would collapse)

sixth, it isn't just about money (in response to your claim that it isn't just about me). drugs have the potential to profoundly change and benefit society (i think we can all agree society needs change..). that's why politicians are so afraid of drugs, especially the drugs that are not just downers

>>So please, all of you out there, don't act as if you are so enlightened when all you do is show apathy (at best) towards the current situation.>>

i believe bluelighters are both A) MUCH more knowledgable and B) as a result much more caring, about * harm reduction so that drug users can have normal lives, * and the situations in these third world countries, where legalization of drugs would prevent so much injustice

there are many more reasons why your post sucks but i'm done
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top