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people don't shoot HEROIN for FUN, do they???

Coolio said:
That makes absolutely no sense. If you have real life issues, being high on heroin doesn't make you have to deal with them any less. You could sit in front of the computer sober and ignore the real issues just as easily. You're spouting cliches.
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It's not that you don't have to deal with them, it's that you don't care that you aren't dealing with them. Ignoring your issues either way comes to bite you in the ass eventually, but doing it sober means you feel terrible, anxious, and guilty until that day. Dope lets you ignore your problems without taking responsibility for ignoring your problems.

I'm not saying it's an intelligent thing to do, it's selfish, immature, and ultimately pointless, but it absolutely does happen, as cliche as it may sound

EDIT: Using heroin is absolutely social, but only when you're doing it with people. When you're doing it alone in your apartment, clearly there's something else going on.
 
Both, can't help but feel some anxiety relief and an occasional "escape" IS fun. However I don't use them with any regularity for those reasons, its not sustanable, and I love drugs too much to make them not work as good.
 
None of my addictions were ever social. I never let anyone know I had coke, much less give any to anyone. My rare opiate use is always conducted in isolation, but to be honest--for me--it's because it's the most fun that way.
 
Shambles said:
It makes a world of sense. If you have serious problems that you can't face then taking a drug which completely obliterates all of those concerns - it does exactly what you want it to.

As someone who claims never to have experienced that aspect of heroin use, count yourself lucky :|

I don't dispute there are often better ways of dealing with those issues, of course.
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The heroin obliterates the concerns - it doesn't do anything to help you escape the problem. A vacation from work is escapism. Cheating on your spouse is escapism. Any drug can be escapist if you just do it alone in your bedroom instead of going out and living life. But there's nothing about heroin that makes it more escapist than anything else you could possibly be doing alone that isn't "productive".

I've always thought of escapism as literally avoiding problems and responsibilities - not coping well mentally with neglecting them.
 
Then we differ on our slightly interpretations of escapism, Coolio. I dove into IV heroin addiction willingly cos it saved my life when no other option could (in my view). I certainly don't recommend it as a viable option for all, but each to their own and all that - whatever gets you through the night :)

PS: The years I spent on IV heroin were probably the most sociable of my life, incidentally. It made me able to function at a reasonably useful level when nothing else could. And yes - I have been through years of just about any therapy and self-growth technique you care to name and they did nowt either. Heroin was a stop gap. Psyches broke me free from that cul-de-sac once again :)
 
KSTONER-people that are 'happy' do all sorts of stupid things...some drive 40 miles over the speed limit, why?/well, they may want to impress someone or they get a rush from it...why would they risk their lives doing something so stupid and possibly fatal if they are happy?/same goes for bungie jumping, overeating, mma fighting etc etc...humans tend to view things in the here and now, we get a pleasurable feeling from something so we do it...we dont look 10 years down the road..plus, we dont think WE are the one that will get addicted to heroin...all stats show do show that only 3 out of 10 people that try heroin end up getting addicted to it so.......
 
belfort said:
KSTONER-people that are 'happy' do all sorts of stupid things...some drive 40 miles over the speed limit, why?/well, they may want to impress someone or they get a rush from it...why would they risk their lives doing something so stupid and possibly fatal if they are happy?/same goes for bungie jumping, overeating, mma fighting etc etc...humans tend to view things in the here and now, we get a pleasurable feeling from something so we do it...we dont look 10 years down the road..plus, we dont think WE are the one that will get addicted to heroin...all stats show do show that only 3 out of 10 people that try heroin end up getting addicted to it so.......
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oh trust me man, I'm your adrenaline junkie no doubt. I love a thrill trust me. But please don't compare MMA fighting, bungie jumping, and overeating to being a junkie. That's really not even in the same ballpark. Do I really have to explain why, because I really don't feel like it's necessary.

Edit: and I've had quite the problem with alcohol and Rx pills so I'm in no way taking a shot at drug users. All I was saying is that if you'll stick a needle in your arm, being completely aware of how addictive that feeling is, you must have something going on in your life that keeps your logical side from saying "hey, you probably shouldn't do that"
 
I see your point K stoner. IMO drug users often have a fuck it I'm too strong or whatever attitude toward drug use. There's a thrill involved with someone using for the first time that IMO isn't much different then other thrill seekers.

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree people use to escape. I think this is especially true with opiates and opiods. Where our opinions differ is the initial reason for use. I tend to think that people are either curious or looking for a thrill or fun or maybe all of the above. I dont believe someone looking to escape would go right to using an opiate without first having expirience with one. The average inexpirienced person IME doesn't really know the exact effects of opiates as a whole and as such wouldn't naturally gravitate toward them. I think the cliche troubled soul that got lost in drug use definitely having a plot hole or 2.
 
KStoner-you are saying bungie jumping, driving extremely fast isnt stupid and dangerous, very possibly lethal??shooting heroin is very dangerous and possibly lethal as well..both make you feel better....just because a person is happy doesnt mean he wouldnt try and do very dangerous, life endangering things...
 
even during the worst of my addiction I used to be (occasionally) high and happy as fuck.

I was probably using .4-.6 grams a day (east coast US) and there was the "get well shot" and then the "get high shot" often mixed with cocaine. (or on days when there was plenty of cash around, .3-.4 gram shots, which def did the trick).

But yeah if you got the cash I think heroin addiction can be a lot of fun. Especially if you have a hot sexy dope shooting partner in crime. Think about it (IMHO) best drug ever + hot sexy girl +sex w/ girl while on heroin = FUN
Like sure it'd have it's pitfalls but that was just part of the ride. so IME it was fun all things considered. Thats just my experience, I'm sure others will disagree.

KStoner6tb said:
All I was saying is that if you'll stick a needle in your arm, being completely aware of how addictive that feeling is, you must have something going on in your life that keeps your logical side from saying "hey, you probably shouldn't do that"
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But it's our mentality "I'm not going to end up like him. he's such a junkie. I'm different, I'm not stupid, I won't end up like that. I love opiates and I want to know how this feels just this one time". And my government/parents/police/society have all lied to me about drugs, so I want to figure this out for myself....that was my mentality anyway. Then once you're addicted the highs and the lows are just like any other part of life for the most part).
 
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KStoner6tb, I agree with you.
The desire to avoid pain is greater than the desire to seek pleasure.
This is what separates an addict from a recreational user, imo.
 
I don't want to use the DNA card, but I personally buy into the concept that addiction can be in one's genes. I think a certain segment of the population reacts differently to drugs.

There are some people who have experimented once or twice with it for social reasons or other and didn't derive that much of a positive experience from it.

Others like myself interpreted that first experience as a sign that they were born to use opiates.

I'm sure that when I've dropped acid, I never experienced the world that Jimi Hendrix experienced when he dropped acid. His brain was just wired to use it for a greater purpose.
 
footscrazy-yeah so you are saying every person that became addicted to heroin started because they were in emotional pain??i disagree eventhough im sure its true in some cases...most heroin users do it once, love it, then do it again in the next few weeks...they really enjoy it eventhough theyve heard all the horror stories involved but they dont think it could ever happen to them...so they do it more readily as a reward for a days hard work or whatever...use becomes more common and one morning that person wakes up not feeling too well, just a little irritable and their stomach a little shaky, they snort some dope, it goes away..they dont put 2 and 2 together and they realize down the road, they are hooked...heroin just grabs people with its physical adictive properties much sooner than alcohol..

are you saying that the person that goes home and drinks a few beers after work or goes for a long hard run is doing it to avoid emotional pain as well??
 
I know throughout one's adolescent years, the reasoning part of the brain isn't completely developed Belfort. So if you really say you were just trying IV heroin for fun, and weren't expecting it to become a problem, I guess you could fall on that.

Especially with all the school education programs and whatnot, people are very aware of the EXTREME addiction potential to IV drugs. I guess you're trying to play the 'dumb card' by saying you dind't know, or even think that you may become addicted to heroin, and it was all just fun and games.

My point, is that even adults who choose to engage in other, somewhat dangerous activities(such as myself) would never take a chance on trying IV heroin. And yah, I have benefited from being on such boards as BL. Seeing how easily it can take over your life; learning from other people's pitfalls. But would I have tried it, even if I never discovered this board? I highly doubt it.


The MOA has a lot to do with the point I'm trying to make Belfort.
 
I cant speak for heroin but i def use oxy for fun. To make good times better. Not to make hard times disappear. If i were to use heroin it would simply be because its alot cheaper.
 
I've not read everyone's posts, but...

Shambles said:
My opinion, it mostly stems from "escapism" for most but that covers a whole can o' worms...
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This is definitely one of the main reasons for my use.
One thing is though that it depends on your definition and interpretation of "fun".
(gee-ooo-craiykee we're getting deep lol =D )

I use when I'm alone, mostly blocking out reality and making the time that passes by in my life much more cope-able. But I will also go and see my friend and we'll have a social smoke - watching films, comedy, UFC lol, chatting about stuff, heart to heart talks, playing video games, I'll play on the electric drum kit and he'll play the guitar.
I'd consider that social use.
But I think a great number of people, for the majority of their time, use it to forget how dreary, dull and painful their life can be.
 
belfort said:
footscrazy-yeah so you are saying every person that became addicted to heroin started because they were in emotional pain??i disagree eventhough im sure its true in some cases...most heroin users do it once, love it, then do it again in the next few weeks...they really enjoy it eventhough theyve heard all the horror stories involved but they dont think it could ever happen to them...so they do it more readily as a reward for a days hard work or whatever...use becomes more common and one morning that person wakes up not feeling too well, just a little irritable and their stomach a little shaky, they snort some dope, it goes away..they dont put 2 and 2 together and they realize down the road, they are hooked...heroin just grabs people with its physical adictive properties much sooner than alcohol..

are you saying that the person that goes home and drinks a few beers after work or goes for a long hard run is doing it to avoid emotional pain as well??
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No, I don't think everyone became addicted to heroin because they were in emotional pain. But I do think you basially just reiterated what I said. It starts off being about seeking pleasure - it's fun, that's all, there's no necessarily any 'escapism' involved. But they start being an addict when they're starting to avoid the pain, rather than seeking the high - 'one morning that person wakes up not feeling too well, just a little irritable and their stomach a little shaky, they snort some dope, it goes away' - when they start using to get rid of that pain, instead of seeking the high, that's when I believe addictive behaviour starts.
 
Kstoner-as we both know though, most people that start using heroin dont IV it, they snort it....plus, if heroin was such an unbelievably addictive drug, then why do only 2-3 out of 10 people get addicted to it...many people use it once or afew times and then quit...the media doesnt want you to believe that but its true...
 
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