The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

[ectolysergic]

^ thats the impression i have from piracetam. i've been using it for roughly a year now and it's not like i get a night & day/in-your-face/obvious effect from it. it's something that is certainly there. i'm a software developer so i can notice the way problem solving has become more fluid. expressing myself to others also seems improved (i seem to find the right words easily). other than that imo it's very subtle.

i can appreciate everyone's interest in experimenting with it but i really do believe too many people are expecting piracetam to be a lot more blatantly noticeable. for me it works. ime it's an noticeable enhancer when i need to use my brain. i can see others getting discouraged because they aren't 'feeling it'

i drop in and out of routine. i can't say that the reasoning is always because i didn't feel it would benefit me. i just really have a hard time keeping up with habits, and routines usually break down quite quickly for me. (which is great ie addiction but not so great if i'm needing to do so for health reasons) so i'm often starting at square one again with the attack doses and then on to sustaining a regimen for however long the next time.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Yea I am not expecting it to have a huge effect. I have a ton of studying and papers to write this semester. I am mostly looking for a subtle boost of memory and clarity of thought. Even if it is just a subtle change I would hope it is effective enough to be noticeable or I don't see the point.

I really just wanna see what it is all about because I have read many varying reports on it's efficacy.

 

[Solipsis]

Damn I'm finding that a gram of GABA has some pretty uncomfortable side-effects on top of it's short-lasting relaxation: paresthesia and a little paradoxical edginess, like it's itching everywhere. Maybe best to keep it low and use it for HGH increase.

Hopefully tyrosine doesn't give headaches at 100 mg otherwise I'll be pretty disappointed in some of my supp. purchases

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I've now been taking about 1.5g of Piracetam once or twice a day for 4mo. I take it with lecithin, as a source of choline, and Ginkgo biloba, which is supposed to synergize with it. It's a very hard effect to describe, and took some real getting used to at first. It's most definitely not a rush, high, or buzz, by even the most loose use of these words. I'd say it's a neutral drug, emotional and mood wise. Bring your own joy.

What this drug has bestowed upon my reading comprehension is a touch shy of miraculous. I can devour, and RETAIN, huge amounts of reading material. I also really can't wait to crack open a Chinese book, or find someone I really enjoy conversing with who's a native Mandarin speaker. The drug definitely has improved my cognition, and I'd let thoughts flow more smoothly. It's been a big help with my ADD.

On the minus side, I find Piracetam to have a just a hint of psychedelia, that I find hard to completely ignore while doing certain tasks and in certain settings. I found emotional lability to be an issue too, doubtless due to dredged and enhanced brain pathways. I'm only now starting to get that under control. Slight dizziness and proprioceptive changes, on high doses or low blood sugar, tend to round out the minuses I've noticed.

Piracetam potentiates everything. I now find alcohol so overwhelming that I don't drink it much. Marijuana can be truly psychotomimetic, if I'm not careful. But it allows me to speak fluently on marijuana, which was always a problem for me.

A heavy bout of thinking, such as digesting a dense and chewy academic lecture, and getting it onto paper in my own words simultaneously, can leave me a little tired and very hungry. I can tell my brain is turbocharged, and burning a lot of fuel. It seemed like more of an annoyance at first, having to buy a snack at every break between classes, but now, I can't say as I can complain about getting to eat more, and not gaining any weight.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Interesting. So you think that this increased brain functioning actually speeds up your metabolism?

Do you think it would interact with Xanax? I am prescribed it for social anxiety but I only take it about 2x a week for a class that is heavily discussion based.

Furthermore, do you think there is any chance of piracetam aggravating social anxiety?

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Interesting. So you think that this increased brain functioning actually speeds up your metabolism?

In the CNS, yes. Not globally. But the CNS uses such a large fraction of the body's chemical energy, that the impact is globally felt.

Do you think it would interact with Xanax? I am prescribed it for social anxiety but I only take it about 2x a week for a class that is heavily discussion based.

I would bet it does. If piracetam works as theorized, as an ion channel enhancer of some sort, then benzos, which agnoize GABAergic receptors in the basal ganglia affecting Cl- channels, could very well be potentiated.

Furthermore, do you think there is any chance of piracetam aggravating social anxiety?

Never had that effect on me. In fact, if anything, it reduces the social anxiety that marijuana causes, if only by allowing me more fluent speech. Sober, I never noticed any effect on social interaction.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Okay, so perhaps I should just skip the morning dose of piracetam on the days in which I plan to take the xanax. Thanks for the helpful response.

 

[daveblacktown]

I think it is best to cycle piracetam (as with any supplement), I generally go for no more than 3 months without taking a month off. I do not feel less intelligent when I stop using it cycling in this way.
It is recommended that you use attack doses of 1600mg 3 times per day for a week then 800mg's 3 times per day after that.
Its effects for me are very subtle; I really do not “feel” it straight away. Although I have noticed after taking for 6 months, I find I can plan my dealings with people much better without reacting to silly comments or stirs and my mood is better which allows me to respond with humour and this has made a tremendous improvement in my relations.
My hunch is it’s most beneficial for neuron protection over long term use, if you use the recommended doses and take regular breaks from it.
Piracetam has a inverted U shaped response curve in regards to dosage.
(This reference is in regard to piracetams effect on modulating morphine induced prolactin secretion)
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1909305&blobtype=pdf
Extract “The inhibition of the PRL rise was the greatest after 100 mg kg-' piracetam, since in this group the plasma PRL concentration was no longer significantly different from basal PRL concentration. Rats pretreated with the lowest dose, namely 20 mg kg-' piracetam, also had significantly attenuated PRL peaks, although this attenuation was much smaller. The higher dose of piracetam (400 mg kg-') had no significant effect on stress-induced PRL release. Consequently, the effect of piracetam on stress-induced PRL secretion showed a U-shaped dose-response curve.”
Conclusion small dose is effective, a moderate dose is more effective, large dose less effective.
Its suppose to work by increasing the density of the muscarinic receptors http://www.springerlink.com/content/r2n324624xt644j7/
In regard to other drugs it has shown to attenuate the amnesic effects of barbiturates, ethanol , benzodiazepines and anticholingerics, http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1574967

 

[MeDieViL]

For those taking deprenyl

How long do you need to stop taking it to prevent it from potentiationg substances as 2CI? Also does it start working again the first day you take it after the trip?

 

[nasir~]

For those taking deprenyl

How long do you need to stop taking it to prevent it from potentiationg substances as 2CI? Also does it start working again the first day you take it after the trip?

you should wait up to 2 weeks.

it starts to work the day you start to take it.

 

[SWIMdidit]

Withdrawal?

One question/concern that has stopped me from trying nootropics is concern about withdrawal and dependency (not in the shivers/shaking sense, but that after getting used to nootropics people find that they are operating below previous baseline). Have people experienced this after stopping taking nootropics? Or is it more just like going back to normal. I certainly have this type of dependency with coffee, for example...

 

[jws21ut]

So I just joined here after been reading about nootropics.

I am currently taking all in the morning:

Piracetam 800mg (sometimes a 2nd dose in afternoon)
Centrophenoxine 500mg (will probably drop to 250mg once current bottle runs out)
Hyderagine 4.5mg (may start cutting pills in half)
Fish Oil
Multivitamin

I typically take 3mg of Melatonin before bed and take 5-HTP around uses of MDMA.

Additionally, have decent amount of 200mg Modafinil from a cheap albeit unreliable source that I take when truly sleep deprived due to job. Pills are always of the correct make, but sometimes orders don't make it to me.

I have seen several posts in here about amino acids and I am wondering if there is anything else people recommend? Things I have seen mentioned that seem interesting are Taurine, GABA, L-Thianine, L-Tyrosine. Also may buy some Kratom and Phenibut for very occasional use.

Please note that I am a regular psychedelic user so prefer something with short half-life or that does not interfere with 2C or Ketamine use. I also take the occasional Xanax or Tramadol so would prefer if no iteractions as well, but if highly recommended and short-half life can obviously work around.

 

[Xorkoth]

I know that it also influences the effects of other substances, particularly psychedelics.

Can anyone give me an overview of exactly what substances it affects, whether it be potentiation or a dulling effect. How does it affect dissociatives, stimulants, opiates, alcohol? Cannabis?

How many days in advance would I have to stop taking it if I wanted to trip without it having any influence?

It definitely does have unpredictable effects on psychedelics, generally potentiation. But it's hard to say and not at all uniform. The most powerful trip of my life was on 18mg of 2C-E, orally, and 800mg of piracetam about 1 or so hours before. It was exponentially more intense than 18mg of 2C-E alone. I've had it make me feel like I had the flu when mixed with 5-MeO-MiPT. I've had it not seem to change the effects at all. To be honest I haven't tried it with many things. I do find that it is a great thing to take with all amphetamine-based compounds, including MDMA, amphetamines of all sorts, and the DOX class, as well as AMT. For these, it increases clarity and decreases side effects and aftereffects, especially with MDMA and amphetamines. For these it seems reliable in the way it interacts.

As for how long it remains to alter the effects of other things... piracetam has a short half-life of just a few hours. After it's out of your system, it seems that it doesn't alter the effects of psychedelics at all. I would imagine if its mental effects are still underway that it would have some sort of clarity increase, but I think the direct interaction where it can potentiate or alter wildly is only if it's in the blood at the time.

One question/concern that has stopped me from trying nootropics is concern about withdrawal and dependency (not in the shivers/shaking sense, but that after getting used to nootropics people find that they are operating below previous baseline). Have people experienced this after stopping taking nootropics? Or is it more just like going back to normal. I certainly have this type of dependency with coffee, for example...

Phenibut definitely produced dependency with regular use, along with withdrawal, as would most GABA-ergic supplements. But most of them, like piracetam, do not have any negative effects when you stop, no matter how much you've been taking.

 

[jws21ut]

So I just joined here after been reading about nootropics.

I am currently taking all in the morning:

Piracetam 800mg (sometimes a 2nd dose in afternoon)
Centrophenoxine 500mg (will probably drop to 250mg once current bottle runs out)
Hyderagine 4.5mg (may start cutting pills in half)
Fish Oil
Multivitamin

I typically take 3mg of Melatonin before bed and take 5-HTP around uses of MDMA.

Additionally, have decent amount of 200mg Modafinil from a cheap albeit unreliable source that I take when truly sleep deprived due to job. Pills are always of the correct make, but sometimes orders don't make it to me.

I have seen several posts in here about amino acids and I am wondering if there is anything else people recommend? Things I have seen mentioned that seem interesting are Taurine, GABA, L-Thianine, L-Tyrosine. Also may buy some Kratom and Phenibut for very occasional use.

Please note that I am a regular psychedelic user so prefer something with short half-life or that does not interfere with 2C or Ketamine use. I also take the occasional Xanax and Tramadol and do Coke on occasion so would prefer if no iteractions as well, but if highly recommended and short-half life can obviously work around.

After doing some additional reading I am now thinking of picking up ALA, ALC, Thianine, Tyrosine and Taurine. Is there any problems mixing these with the stack and details above? Only things I am still unsure about taking are GABA and Huperzine. Any recommendations of which of the things listed in this paragraph make sense for me to take. I am most interested in Nootropic effects or things that repair/limit the toxicity of some of the other drugs I use recreationally. Thanks in advance.

 

[MeDieViL]

Any experiences of pramiracetam in combination with recreational substances?

 

[delta_9]

There is evidence, athough only anecdotal, of 'racetam drugs potentiating amphetamines and phenethylamines. Although I don't know by how much.
I've done some experimenting with piracetam/DMAE + amphetamine and didn't notice any significant potentiation.
Pramiracetam is supposed to be the best of the 'racetams, but I have yet to try it.(It's pretty expensive )

But obviously, if one 'racetam drug interacts(negatively or positively) with recreational drugs, it's not crazy to think the others may as well.

 

[piku_playground]

I've been taking Piracetam for nearly three weeks now, Centrophenoxine for around ten days, and Hydergine for three days.

I feel like I'm beginning to understand the effects a little better now. I probably shouldn't have taken each one by itself for a couple weeks at a time, but I'm impatient I guess.

It's been really incredible in combination with creative activities, positive mental attitude and multi tasking. Things feel so much more simple lately. My memory has been enhanced, I can retrieve bits of information with much more ease. I am already a good conversationalist, but lately I have been able to express myself with extreme ease and delight. I am able to hold onto a specific thought and ride it into progression, or move on to something else when I am bored with it. I don't feel as speedy in my dialogue as often I may feel. Less hiccups in articulation.

In some ways it has been fairly humorous. When I speak with people, I have been offering about ten words for every one they speak. But I don't think I am coming off as incoherent or crazy, just a little over spoken.

Creative expression has been highly enjoyable. I keep wanting to write and write and write some more.

I just finished Frank Herbert's Dune, and I felt my comprehension was higher than I have ever felt before. Maybe he is just a good writer and conveys the story and philosophical ideas with ease, but I highly enjoyed it.

In short, I feel more relaxed and less attached to the outcome of ideas. It basically feels like my brain is working much more productively with less effort.

I've had a lot of good fortune lately and appreciation for life, so I'm not sure if I can attribute my overall daily happiness towards Nootropics. But I haven't enjoyed life on this level in any other time in my life. Maybe it is because I'm excited to turn twenty, and tune into another decade of self growth through independence and creative thought.

Only issue now is finding ways to afford buying all three of these supplements on a monthly basis.

Sorry to rehash what may have already been said, but I had an urge to share what I have been feeling since no one I know has heard of Nootropics.

 

[Listening]

Only issue now is finding ways to afford buying all three of these supplements on a monthly basis.

Thanks for the cool report. What dosages are you taking and how much $$ does it come out to? I'm considering starting with some nootropics (still in research mode) but I too am worried that it can get pricey to maintain...

 

[PepperSocks]

The piracetam and centrophenoxine aren't too bad for price; make sure you buy bulk powder.

Hydergine is VERY expensive if you buy the pills. Look for Ergoloid Mesylates. You should be able to find 1g for ~$50 from a chemical supplier.

I have yet to try hydergine. I'm debating going through the hassle of ordering it to try it out. I'll save it for a time when I have more money and more drive to try it.

 

[piku_playground]

Thanks for the cool report. What dosages are you taking and how much $$ does it come out to? I'm considering starting with some nootropics (still in research mode) but I too am worried that it can get pricey to maintain...

1600mg Piracetam 2x daily (Will probably go down to 1600mg in morning and 800mg in afternoon.)
250mg Centrophenoxine once daily
4.5mg Hydergine once daily (cutting this in half once I get used to effects)

This is costing me around $40 dollars a month. That really isn't bad considering the potential benefits. I'm willing to spend a little over a dollar a day for it.

I'd say start with Piracetam in powder form to save money. Then you can move onto Centrophenoxine or something else that isn't too expensive. Hydergine seems to be the most expensive and hard to find one, but like others have said, if you find you like it you can always order a large amount which will come out to not that much money per month.