Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Most of opiate withdrawal symptoms are a result of having an abnormally increased blood pressure and over stimulated CNS, and not due to a lack of dopamine.
-
OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
The different ways heroin and aphetamines affect dopamine receptors?
- Thread starter Harambulus
- Start date
Most of opiate withdrawal symptoms are a result of having an abnormally increased blood pressure and over stimulated CNS, and not due to a lack of dopamine.
^ MDPV can cause RLS and also give you the horn so hard you nearly pass out through bloodloss. Not sure how relevant it is but just thought I'd share...
MDPV is listed as an NDRI and certainly fits the "compulsive *everything*" and "hypersexuality" mould :D
I'm pretty sure it's the only (recreational only? think it maybe more unique than that but may well be mistooken) drug that fits in its specific category. I'm now going to be looking into Parkinson's drugs for frollicks
PS: Some of that last sentence may not be true
PPS: MDPV is an antogonist according to wiki... maybe I'm reading it wrong... I'm pretty sure it has some uniquely pure action regarding dopamine anyway...
MDPV is listed as an NDRI and certainly fits the "compulsive *everything*" and "hypersexuality" mould :D
I'm pretty sure it's the only (recreational only? think it maybe more unique than that but may well be mistooken) drug that fits in its specific category. I'm now going to be looking into Parkinson's drugs for frollicks
PS: Some of that last sentence may not be true
PPS: MDPV is an antogonist according to wiki... maybe I'm reading it wrong... I'm pretty sure it has some uniquely pure action regarding dopamine anyway...
Fail Fighter
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 240
No no, it's been a lifelong condition. But I only visited the doctor about it when I was really young, back before it was considered a genuine medical condition, and certainly before there was any medication for it. I've always had terrible insomnia too.
Some people today complain about how over-medicated Americans are, but I'm just glad people have so many options for treatment. Kids today simply have no idea how advanced medicine has become, just in time for their generation. It wasn't too long ago that you went to the doctor and all he had for you was penicillin, demerol, or barbituates. Now, with all the major 21st century breakthroughs in brain research, we've got all sorts of highly targeted pharmaceuticals.
In the late 80s, when I was about 5 years old, I went to a psychiatrist because I was having night terrors and insomnia, having lived through a horrible car crash that rendered my great-great-grandmother dead. I can't remember now what I was prescribed, but I remember researching it a few years ago and getting a chuckle out of it. It was simply branded as an "anti-psychotic," and if you read the mechanism of action, it was completely unknown. The stupid chemists who made the drug had accidentally stumbled onto it somehow, and it was one of those drugs that was described as "Well we don't exactly know how it works, we just know that it works."
Scary stuff. Who really knows what it was doing to my fragile 5-year-old mind. And nowadays, I just have to go to my doc and say "Hey doc, I've got insomnia and RLS, what can you do?" And I'd leave happily with scripts for Mirapex and a Z-drug.
Fail Fighter
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 240
Wow, thank you for teaching me about a new drug! I didn't think there were still any street drugs out there that I don't about, but MDPV certainly fits the bill:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPV
For what it's worth, I've never experienced any positive sexual side effects from ANY recreational drug. I hear people talk about how great sex/orgasm is while on speed, but I've tried just about every form of speed (except for MDMA), and all they ever do is make my wiener shrivel and damn near invert itself. And if I do finally get it up, it takes about 4 hours to finish, and certainly no girl will stick around for that long, so it's always just me by this point, and then to my disappointment, the orgasm is always rather weak. I've chased the orgasm-enhancing drug all my life, and always turned up empty-handed.
Wow, this thread is really starting to diverge...
Apologies for continuing the diversion, but if you want a stim that induces both erotomania and a pole you could wave the flag on simultaneously than peevee is your man
PS: That mostly applies to the tan peevee, sadly the more common white variety doesn't quite cut it as well, although the more recent off-white batches strike a very happy medium
PPS: It's also a highly potent (5-10mg = moderate-heavy dose) stimulant that most people don't get on with cos it can be both uber-intense and super-subtle at the same time. Strange stuff... but probably my favourite stim ever
PS: That mostly applies to the tan peevee, sadly the more common white variety doesn't quite cut it as well, although the more recent off-white batches strike a very happy medium
PPS: It's also a highly potent (5-10mg = moderate-heavy dose) stimulant that most people don't get on with cos it can be both uber-intense and super-subtle at the same time. Strange stuff... but probably my favourite stim ever
Fail Fighter
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 240
Sold!!! *runs to find dealer*
Harambulus
Greenlighter
Wow thanks for all the replies guys. I didn't have my topic notification on so missed out on all these till just now.
So as another question,
From those who have tried it, would you say it's more addictive than speed, coke/crack or mdma? as I've tried all these and didn't find it hard to stop them. The hardest I have found were the speedy ones coke and speed. Now I fucking loved the speed high for a while although the more I took it is the more repulsive it was due to the awful comedown so it was a no brainer that I would stop after a while regardless of the high as I knew I'd have to 'pay my debts' around the corner. Coke on the other hand was more seductive because the comedown is milder and so I'd be taking it on monday afternoons and still be able to function pretty normally with a few beers to 'take the edge off' the next day. But that too I got off soon enough but it was def the one I was most drawn in by.
I took speed extensively for a time and binged on coke like crazy for a year. Tried crack once thought it was 'meh' (I'm not sure if it was weak stuff or what but it didn't do much for me). Coke was probs the one I found most addictive, at one point doing a gollum under my table as I giggled and snorted another line of FISHSCALE at 8 am in the morn. Even that though I found it relatively easy to stop with a modicum of common sense to let me ascertain it would be best not to do it any more.
So my question is- would heroin be 'one hit and your hooked' type deal or is it like usuall overblown by the media? and only really the case for those who were already susceptible and 'vulnerable groups'? I'm not too sure about this as I have read about quite a few 'scholars' who had lifelong addictions, though now I think of it freud and the likes had regular coke habits too.
So my main query is- more addictive than coke or about the same/less? as I dealt with that w/o a prob.
Another thing- if taken only once/infrequently is there much/any comedown from it? I know they speak of the nightmares of coming off after being addicted but what about infrequent use?
Is it 'mild' on the system like coke is or what?
I've found that those substances which break down in the body like coke to have a correlating milder comedown compared to the more synthetic drugs. Like a direct correlation between its ability to be broken down in the body and the harshness of the comedown.
Ie speed = worst + most synthetic. MDMA = medium + semi synthetic. Coke = pretty mild (as long as you don't cane your nose) and breaks itself down in the body.-whereas the other synthetic ones must be pissed/sweated (whatever) out in the same form.
So hope someone can clear up those queries.
I'm very intrigued to try it however it's not that high on my list. I may take it sooner or later. Maybe not at all. I have had many positive experiences with drugs using them to increase and widen my perspectives. I am not interested in mind bending experiences any more and am most interested in finding a place of contentment/confidence/self esteem. I like to take drugs for these specific purposes in the spirit of Shulgin's work, to take a view at the vista to know what I might work towards. That is my growing interest in the heroin high as I've found a feeling of contentment in my life to be so elusive.
Although I see the junkies in my city every day and wonder if it's THAT good that they give up everything just to chase it, or again is it that they were 'already vulnerable' and using it to escape and it wouldn't be such an issue for a mentally healthy person.
So as another question,
From those who have tried it, would you say it's more addictive than speed, coke/crack or mdma? as I've tried all these and didn't find it hard to stop them. The hardest I have found were the speedy ones coke and speed. Now I fucking loved the speed high for a while although the more I took it is the more repulsive it was due to the awful comedown so it was a no brainer that I would stop after a while regardless of the high as I knew I'd have to 'pay my debts' around the corner. Coke on the other hand was more seductive because the comedown is milder and so I'd be taking it on monday afternoons and still be able to function pretty normally with a few beers to 'take the edge off' the next day. But that too I got off soon enough but it was def the one I was most drawn in by.
I took speed extensively for a time and binged on coke like crazy for a year. Tried crack once thought it was 'meh' (I'm not sure if it was weak stuff or what but it didn't do much for me). Coke was probs the one I found most addictive, at one point doing a gollum under my table as I giggled and snorted another line of FISHSCALE at 8 am in the morn. Even that though I found it relatively easy to stop with a modicum of common sense to let me ascertain it would be best not to do it any more.
So my question is- would heroin be 'one hit and your hooked' type deal or is it like usuall overblown by the media? and only really the case for those who were already susceptible and 'vulnerable groups'? I'm not too sure about this as I have read about quite a few 'scholars' who had lifelong addictions, though now I think of it freud and the likes had regular coke habits too.
So my main query is- more addictive than coke or about the same/less? as I dealt with that w/o a prob.
Another thing- if taken only once/infrequently is there much/any comedown from it? I know they speak of the nightmares of coming off after being addicted but what about infrequent use?
Is it 'mild' on the system like coke is or what?
I've found that those substances which break down in the body like coke to have a correlating milder comedown compared to the more synthetic drugs. Like a direct correlation between its ability to be broken down in the body and the harshness of the comedown.
Ie speed = worst + most synthetic. MDMA = medium + semi synthetic. Coke = pretty mild (as long as you don't cane your nose) and breaks itself down in the body.-whereas the other synthetic ones must be pissed/sweated (whatever) out in the same form.
So hope someone can clear up those queries.
I'm very intrigued to try it however it's not that high on my list. I may take it sooner or later. Maybe not at all. I have had many positive experiences with drugs using them to increase and widen my perspectives. I am not interested in mind bending experiences any more and am most interested in finding a place of contentment/confidence/self esteem. I like to take drugs for these specific purposes in the spirit of Shulgin's work, to take a view at the vista to know what I might work towards. That is my growing interest in the heroin high as I've found a feeling of contentment in my life to be so elusive.
Although I see the junkies in my city every day and wonder if it's THAT good that they give up everything just to chase it, or again is it that they were 'already vulnerable' and using it to escape and it wouldn't be such an issue for a mentally healthy person.
Fail Fighter
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 240
My personal experience: no drug is addictive. Not a single damn one. Furthermore, no form of amphetamine or opiate was ever even remotely fun the first time. In fact, my first experience with opiates was horrible, and I have no idea why I kept trying them.
But I'll tell you one thing that IS addictive: running from your emotional problems. If you start using drugs to mask your issues, and you never confront those issues, then you'll most likely become addicted. You won't be able to break your addiction until you deal with the underlying issues that drove you to drugs in the first place.
It's sort of like dieting. "Losing weight" is such a farce. Your body is a reflection of your mind, so when your body goes to shit, it means your mind went to shit first. Your body is sort of like an indicator gauge of your mental health status. If you try "losing weight" simply because you're fat, then obviously you're going to gain the weight right back. To truly morph your body into a slimmer form, you'll have to work out whatever underlying problems made you fat to begin with (i.e. food addiction and/or lethargy, caused by depression, or ???).
EDIT: I re-read your post, and it's fairly obvious that you're not the type to get addicted. Mainly because you sound like me, and I don't have an addictive personality. I've always known when it's time to stop. I may get carried away for a month or two on end, but there's always that point where the angel on my shoulder makes an appearance and says "Dude, really? Do you even know what you're doing anymore? C'mon, let's go. It's time to stop and get your shit together." Like I said, addiction is a state of mind. It's caused by you, not the substance. Your specific drug of choice doesn't really make a difference.
My advice though, would be to NOT try heroin, unless you're experienced with opiates and have some bit of narcotic tolerance. It's too strong of an opiate to start out with, and you'll no doubt spend the night simply feeling dizzy at first, then it'll turn into profuse vomiting, followed by severe constipation. My brother is opiate naive, and I gave him a tiny 4mg bump of hydromorphone last week, and he couldn't shit afterward for 3-4 days. He was also praying to the porcelain god before night's end. But if you ARE opiate experienced, then by all means, try it out. I can tell you're smart, so like me, you'll also probably worry about the shit they cut street drugs with. I've never consumed any street drug without purifying it first, so you might want to look into it. I would never in a million years buy a drug off the street and consume it, not knowing exactly what's in it. The very idea makes me shudder. Especially with heroin, and especially especially with heroin with no tolerance. That's why people are always ODing on heroin; they either a) took a break from it and didn't know that their tolerance had decreased significantly, or b) they got some that was extraordinarily pure and dosed much more than they thought they were dosing. For a first-time opiate user, trying heroin, if it was pure, you'd need almost a speck of it. Like an amount equivalent to the ball in the tip of a ballpoint pen. So with an amount so small, purity could mean the difference between a buzz and respiratory failure.
Also, the reason opiates are what they are, with the addiction and withdrawals, is because it's not a drug you do only occasionally on the weekends. For most people, it's a drug you do every single day, without break. It's just sort of sickening if you do it every now and then, but after a few days of straight use, that's when it starts to really become enjoyable and you start to appreciate it. Then, before you know it, it's been 6 months and you've done it every day...
Also thought I'd add this, in case my biochemistry is vastly different than yours: I don't find any kind of "upper" to be enjoyable. I dislike coke, and strongly dislike Adderall, Dexedrine, and meth. Never tried E. The only drug that truly brought me euphoria was shrooms. Shrooms give me a feeling comparable to orgasm, and it lasts for hours. Oh, and one more thing: I've never experienced an opiate "comedown." I've never felt any sort of negative after-effect (aside from withdrawals after a few long binges). They don't produce any comedown or hangover that I know of.
But I'll tell you one thing that IS addictive: running from your emotional problems. If you start using drugs to mask your issues, and you never confront those issues, then you'll most likely become addicted. You won't be able to break your addiction until you deal with the underlying issues that drove you to drugs in the first place.
It's sort of like dieting. "Losing weight" is such a farce. Your body is a reflection of your mind, so when your body goes to shit, it means your mind went to shit first. Your body is sort of like an indicator gauge of your mental health status. If you try "losing weight" simply because you're fat, then obviously you're going to gain the weight right back. To truly morph your body into a slimmer form, you'll have to work out whatever underlying problems made you fat to begin with (i.e. food addiction and/or lethargy, caused by depression, or ???).
EDIT: I re-read your post, and it's fairly obvious that you're not the type to get addicted. Mainly because you sound like me, and I don't have an addictive personality. I've always known when it's time to stop. I may get carried away for a month or two on end, but there's always that point where the angel on my shoulder makes an appearance and says "Dude, really? Do you even know what you're doing anymore? C'mon, let's go. It's time to stop and get your shit together." Like I said, addiction is a state of mind. It's caused by you, not the substance. Your specific drug of choice doesn't really make a difference.
My advice though, would be to NOT try heroin, unless you're experienced with opiates and have some bit of narcotic tolerance. It's too strong of an opiate to start out with, and you'll no doubt spend the night simply feeling dizzy at first, then it'll turn into profuse vomiting, followed by severe constipation. My brother is opiate naive, and I gave him a tiny 4mg bump of hydromorphone last week, and he couldn't shit afterward for 3-4 days. He was also praying to the porcelain god before night's end. But if you ARE opiate experienced, then by all means, try it out. I can tell you're smart, so like me, you'll also probably worry about the shit they cut street drugs with. I've never consumed any street drug without purifying it first, so you might want to look into it. I would never in a million years buy a drug off the street and consume it, not knowing exactly what's in it. The very idea makes me shudder. Especially with heroin, and especially especially with heroin with no tolerance. That's why people are always ODing on heroin; they either a) took a break from it and didn't know that their tolerance had decreased significantly, or b) they got some that was extraordinarily pure and dosed much more than they thought they were dosing. For a first-time opiate user, trying heroin, if it was pure, you'd need almost a speck of it. Like an amount equivalent to the ball in the tip of a ballpoint pen. So with an amount so small, purity could mean the difference between a buzz and respiratory failure.
Also, the reason opiates are what they are, with the addiction and withdrawals, is because it's not a drug you do only occasionally on the weekends. For most people, it's a drug you do every single day, without break. It's just sort of sickening if you do it every now and then, but after a few days of straight use, that's when it starts to really become enjoyable and you start to appreciate it. Then, before you know it, it's been 6 months and you've done it every day...
Also thought I'd add this, in case my biochemistry is vastly different than yours: I don't find any kind of "upper" to be enjoyable. I dislike coke, and strongly dislike Adderall, Dexedrine, and meth. Never tried E. The only drug that truly brought me euphoria was shrooms. Shrooms give me a feeling comparable to orgasm, and it lasts for hours. Oh, and one more thing: I've never experienced an opiate "comedown." I've never felt any sort of negative after-effect (aside from withdrawals after a few long binges). They don't produce any comedown or hangover that I know of.
Last edited:
Harambulus
Greenlighter
Thanks for the detailed reply fighter.
It will allow me to make a more informed decision in this area.
Yea, see how you talk about EXTREME constipation that is enough to make me think twice about wanting to try it. I'd read about that before and of course seen it played out in Trainspotting...and that was really offputting. Is it a given that you'll be constipated?
See that is the main reason which stops me doing drugs the negative side effects. I remember, aside from coke's relatively mild side effects, when I had really strong stuff it would give me stomach pains and really bad shits for about an hour then that effect would wear off but it was rather uncomfortable and considerably tainted the high. Is it a given you'll get constipation no matter what amount you take or is it dose dependent and can you avoid it by taking a smaller dose while still having a nice hit? same with the vomiting thing?
I definitely wouldn't be mainlining it, probs smoke it as I also don't like snorting any more either.
Yea and I'd definitely not want to purchase off some randomer on the street; naturally. I am certainly a stickler for quality and I imagine heroin is one of the worst ones for knowing what your getting if your not savvy to the 'scene'. How would you recommend I would go about getting a reliable purchase, I certainly wouldn't want to start hanging around with smackheads just to try it.
My best bet would be to go back to my old city and visit my mate who used to deal it. He went to jail for 7 but is out now :D and he was experienced in it. That would probs be my best bet. Again I'm not THAT dying to try it that I will risk house and home lol so I'd probs go back to check how he is, catch up and then inquire with him about it.
He was the guy who let me try crack with him as I kept showing curiosity about it and he said he'd prefer I did it with him than my curiosity lead me to a less safe environment to do it.
I couldn't agree more with your analysis of addiction. I find that the more I develop my personality is the more 'obsolete' I find a respective drug to be. For instance many 'rely' on E to have a good time. My housemate is currently in his honeymoon with it at the moment after having had a strict Christian upbringing; he is currently knocking them back one or two times a week. I took them again a month or two ago and I found the high boring and a bit irritating seeing as I'd have to pay back the pitiful high with a day or two's worth of comedown the next day. I realised recently that I think addiction is mainly down to low self esteem and those with high self esteem don't feel the need to take drugs simply cos they feel good most of the time anyway. I remember I never used to be able to comprehend this and thought it was just stupid feelgood rhetoric. Without trying to sugarcoat it I just feel that those particular drugs I used to rely on have become redundant now I have stopped using them as a crutch to get into that particular headspace and instead developed my life so that I reach such places naturally.
I guess the important thing when thinking about the potential of addiction with a drug is want vs. need. Rather than just wanting to try it you NEED to try it to escape form whatever insecurities you have then it will probs become a crutch. I've never been one for escapism really as I liken it to putting your alarm clock on snooze. You KNOW in your mind you will have to wake up in like 9 minutes once the snooze time is up so why not just get up now and get it over with. I always thought that to be a masochistic feature on alarm clocks
:D.
It will allow me to make a more informed decision in this area.
Yea, see how you talk about EXTREME constipation that is enough to make me think twice about wanting to try it. I'd read about that before and of course seen it played out in Trainspotting...and that was really offputting. Is it a given that you'll be constipated?
See that is the main reason which stops me doing drugs the negative side effects. I remember, aside from coke's relatively mild side effects, when I had really strong stuff it would give me stomach pains and really bad shits for about an hour then that effect would wear off but it was rather uncomfortable and considerably tainted the high. Is it a given you'll get constipation no matter what amount you take or is it dose dependent and can you avoid it by taking a smaller dose while still having a nice hit? same with the vomiting thing?
I definitely wouldn't be mainlining it, probs smoke it as I also don't like snorting any more either.
Yea and I'd definitely not want to purchase off some randomer on the street; naturally. I am certainly a stickler for quality and I imagine heroin is one of the worst ones for knowing what your getting if your not savvy to the 'scene'. How would you recommend I would go about getting a reliable purchase, I certainly wouldn't want to start hanging around with smackheads just to try it.
My best bet would be to go back to my old city and visit my mate who used to deal it. He went to jail for 7 but is out now :D and he was experienced in it. That would probs be my best bet. Again I'm not THAT dying to try it that I will risk house and home lol so I'd probs go back to check how he is, catch up and then inquire with him about it.
He was the guy who let me try crack with him as I kept showing curiosity about it and he said he'd prefer I did it with him than my curiosity lead me to a less safe environment to do it.
I couldn't agree more with your analysis of addiction. I find that the more I develop my personality is the more 'obsolete' I find a respective drug to be. For instance many 'rely' on E to have a good time. My housemate is currently in his honeymoon with it at the moment after having had a strict Christian upbringing; he is currently knocking them back one or two times a week. I took them again a month or two ago and I found the high boring and a bit irritating seeing as I'd have to pay back the pitiful high with a day or two's worth of comedown the next day. I realised recently that I think addiction is mainly down to low self esteem and those with high self esteem don't feel the need to take drugs simply cos they feel good most of the time anyway. I remember I never used to be able to comprehend this and thought it was just stupid feelgood rhetoric. Without trying to sugarcoat it I just feel that those particular drugs I used to rely on have become redundant now I have stopped using them as a crutch to get into that particular headspace and instead developed my life so that I reach such places naturally.
I guess the important thing when thinking about the potential of addiction with a drug is want vs. need. Rather than just wanting to try it you NEED to try it to escape form whatever insecurities you have then it will probs become a crutch. I've never been one for escapism really as I liken it to putting your alarm clock on snooze. You KNOW in your mind you will have to wake up in like 9 minutes once the snooze time is up so why not just get up now and get it over with. I always thought that to be a masochistic feature on alarm clocks
:D.
ranunky
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,280
Well I'm doing pharmacology in college so that makes me one of "the entire pharmaceutical world" and I don't agree with what you're saying and I don't know anyone else who would have such a regimented view of the brain.
Serotonin is very important in mood regulation.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
What they're referring to is the fact that SSRI's are severely, severely over-prescribed medications for the treatment of depression. There's a lot of other, better, more effective treatment options available and people aren't willing to utilize them for one reason or another.
Not everyone in the pharmacological world believes this - just the people making the most money in the pharmaceutical companies for selling drugs. They're only a very small percentage of people in the pharmacological world, however. This is something the person you quoted either doesn't realize or doesn't take into account.
I have also studied pharmacology in school and I also don't know of anyone who studied with me (nor myself) who have such a strict view of brain functioning.
phr
Bluelighter
Bump.