Cap H, almost a month ago, you and another person talked me out of eating some vikes, and I really appreciate that!
No problem man - it's really good to hear that you are doing well. I'm actually at 10 months clean myself from heroin, and I'm planning on keeping it that way. It's good to hear about others who are successful in quitting using, it really helps me out personally.
I have a new question, I have read here the idea that less is more with subs, and I have really been trying to work my way down and have gone from 8 mgs a day to 2-4m now I am trying to cut down to a dosage comparable to yours. Any advice on how to comfortably do this? Also, if I encounter w/d, do the tips from the w/d faq work for subs? I did try to find a sub faq that gave pointers, but didn't see any, any words of wisdom? Also, sorry you had a shitty month!
It's ok - September is already starting to be better than August. some luck is starting to come my way.
However, as for your question - yes, the idea is "less is more" with Suboxone. As you taper down (as slowly and comfortably as possible) - your opiate tolerance will drop as your dose drops. And, as this happens, the smaller amounts of suboxone yield more nor-buprenorphine (a better mu-agonist) - and this, accompanied by a lower tolerance and more endogenous endorphins activating your own receptors - you tend to feel better, and a lot less WD symptoms. WD symptoms may still occur - but will likely to be light ones.
I have split my dose down many times and each move was relatively comfortable. I had some minor WD symptoms in the mornings - however some other mornings I am seemingly free of any WD symptoms (maybe except being slightly tired - yawns - teary eyes/runny nose, at tops).
Some wisdom to help you go lower - basically, the idea is you want the transition to be comfortable. You can drop your dose really quick - but you may find yourself not feeling as well. Not feeling as well as possible with buprenorphine can lead to a relapse - which is why I strongly encourage people to only taper when they're ready. I felt that I needed to stay at the doses I was for weeks/months before I was ready to taper further - and I still waited until I was ready, and when I was, it was a lot easier.
So, take your time. However, once your stable on a dose, and you feel ready to move lower, it should be time. I recommend dropping at low increments.
For example, you say you went from 8mg to 2 to 4mg. Here's how you can go even lower:
Take a 2mg quarter of a pill, and crush it up with a pill crusher. Have a clean surface - and empty the crushed pill there. Basically, you can split it in half - and each pile of powder will be 1mg (roughly). The more practice you get with this, the easier it is to get 1mg.
Another option is having your doctor switch you to 2mg pills (N2), so that you can split it up into quarters with a pill cutter - so that each quarter of a N2 is 0.5mg.
However, assuming you're working with the 8mg pills (I am - I love them), 2mg is the smallest section you can get. So, by turning 2mg into powder, you can reasonably separate it into a few piles. If you want 0.5mg increments, you would split it up into 4 piles. For 0.25mg increments, 8 piles.
For example, You can try this:
2mg
1.5mg
1.5mg
1mg
However, if you find that's too quick, you can always do:
2mg
1.75mg
1.75mg
1.5mg
1.5mg
1.25mg
1.25mg
1mg
1mg
And so on - if you need to repeat any dose level, go for it as long as you need to until your body has caught up and feels OK. Every tapering schedule will be unique to that person. Basically, The easiest way to get the piles of powder for sublingual administration is to use a spoon to slip it under your tongue. What's even easier is to let it soak up in water, and use a cotton to absorb the water. Then, you can put the cotton under your tongue, and the contents will be dispersed underneath your tongue as you press down on it lightly.
You can also use a straw and direct the straw under your tongue, but I don't know how effective that would be.
I want to make sure you don't lose any in the process. So, if all else fails, it's best to use the cotton. It's really easy. 6/7 has another method for potentiation of Suboxone, but I won't get into this here. You can ask me if you want to know about it.
Basically, I think the best way to taper is to take it at an approach like this:
You want to be taking 0.25mg, 0.5mg, and 1mg doses throughout a day. If you're at 2mg now, here's what you want to do:
1mg twice a day
0.5mg twice a day
0.5mg, then 0.25mg
0.5mg once a day -OR- 0.25mg, then 0.25mg
0.25mg once a day
Another way to do it is...
0.25mg four times a day
0.25mg three times a day
0.25mg two times a day
0.25mg once a day
Whatever is easiest with you. If you find it's easiest to dose once a day - you may want to slowly titrate your dose down by 0.25mg every few days, or once a week, or once a month. If you find it's easiest to dose multiple times a day - you want to go for low doses, but more times in a day. This way, you can quickly taper down in very tiny amounts - but over time, this will save more each day.
Some people find it's better to have a medium dose (0.5mg) in the morning, then a smaller (0.25mg) dose at night.
Others like a smaller dose in the morning to avoid lethargy, and then like a bigger dose at night to help themselves get to sleep.
I think it's best to maintain yourself at a steady dosing level, and then titrate either the times you use it, or the amount you use down (or both - depending on how slow or quick you want to go).
Does that make sense?
Personally, I was using...
2mg three times a day, then...
1mg three times a day, then...
0.5mg three/four times a day, then...
1/3mg three/four times a day, then...
0.25mg three/four times a day
2mg to 1mg, then 1mg to 0.5mg was incredibly easy. I only got a better high each time I stepped down - and I was saving much more Suboxone.
Then, at 0.5mg to 1/3mg, I still got a better high, but it wasn't as intense and didn't seem to last as long. So where 0.5mg 3x a day was easy, 1/3mg was pretty hard to keep to 3x a day. However, I found 0.25mg 4x a day was a lot easier, however the same daily amount, as 1/3mg 3x a day. So I tapered down in amount.
I plan to go down to 0.2mg next, then 0.15mg (or something like that). 4x a day is a really good dosing schedule for me now, and I try to always keep it to 4x a day, unless I'm staying up past my normal 12-16 hours of awakeness. Sometimes I end up sleeping in a lot - especially when tapering from buprenorphine. However, recently, the smaller doses (0.5mg, 1/3mg, and 0.25mg) have all made me a lot more stimulated and less sedated than the 2mg and 1mg doses have.
If you're taking your buprenorphine sublingually then you already are at a dose comparable to his.
True, however I think that sublingual to IV BA of suboxone isn't as exact as one might think.
I typically use 0.25mg 2 to 4 times a day, average 3 to 4. When I take 0.75mg or 1mg in a day this way, which is bioequivalent to
I have a feeling that if I sublingually 2.5mg a day (bioequiv of IV 0.75mg a day), or 3 and 1/3mg a day (bioequiv of 1mg a day), I would have a lot worse WD symptoms than I do now.
When I used to be at 2mg sublingually used in a day (sometimes 4mg) I would vomit every morning, and sleep in until my dose kicked in. I realize this was closer to the timeline that I was quitting heroin, however my recent sublingual experiences don't seem much different.
I have tried 2mg sublingually (at a time when I was probably at the 0.5mg or 1/3mg dosage level), and overall, honestly...I got very little out of it other than maintenance. I did get effects, and they did last longer. However, I felt that 6 hours down the line - I wanted to redose.
I would end up using 2mg maybe up to 3 or 4 times a day if I was using sublingually, due to the fact that I do a lot better when dosing multiple times throughout the day. Plus, it's hard for me to want to sublingually take more than 2mg, because I feel it barely does it for me. If I sublingually used less, I don't know how many more positive effects I would get from it.
When I was around the 0.5mg dosage level, I tried 6/7's method with 0.5mg. It only lasted for 4, maybe 5 hours before I wanted to use the preferred ROA.
What's weird is if I'm busy and doing something, 0.25mg (with the right roa
) can last me 6 to 8 hours, and I don't have any WD symptoms, other than yawns, and teary eyes/runny nose. Sometimes I can go even longer, however I don't like to push it that far.
Overall, I'm glad I have utilized the ROA I have, because otherwise I wouldn't be tapering down as far. Plus, I'm actually really excited to see how "low I can go" in a sense, before the high is severely diminished. (Is it going to be 0.2mg? 0.1mg? 0.05mg? 0.01mg? Check back in my reality life postings to find out!
)
I have a feeling that if you taper correctly, you can go infinitely low, and still get a great high. However, I'm really interested to see where the effects of the high would start to diminish.
I've been off of Suboxone for 59 hours now and I still can't get high on oxycodone!! This is really pissing me off! What gives guys???????
What was your dose of Suboxone, how often did you dose Suboxone, what dose of oxycodone did you take?
Thank you for posting here instead of creating a thread - I will answer your Q here because you were polite enough to do that.
