Mexico decriminalizes small-scale drug possession

juniortha3rd said:
So do you guys think that Mexico will turn one of its nicer cities in Baja into the next Amsterdam?
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Well thing is, I'm not exactly sure how this thing in Mexico is going to work... Like in Amstardam, pot and shrooms were legal to own but they also had licensed shops and coffeehouses selling them. It will still be illegal to sell in Mexico after this. Maybe it's like wisekrak said that this new law is really just to catch dealers.
 
wizekrak said:
Think about it this way.

They keep the decrim dose small so users have to buy more often. The more often they buy the more exposure the dealers get to getting busted. The more exposure the dealers get the greater the chance of making arrests. It's in the cops' best interest to encourage as many buys as possible.
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oooh, interesting thought.

sounds spot on mate
 
wizekrak said:
Think about it this way.

They keep the decrim dose small so users have to buy more often. The more often they buy the more exposure the dealers get to getting busted. The more exposure the dealers get the greater the chance of making arrests. It's in the cops' best interest to encourage as many buys as possible.
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If that's what they're trying to do, they will fail. Think about it from the perspective of the dealer, which I, of course, am not. Would I sell 5g of weed? Sure. .5g of coke, maybe, but no less. 50mg of H. Hell no. 15µg of LSD. Go fuck yourself. And that would be under totally illegal circumstances. If I were a dealer, and cops were using this new law to catch dealers, I would simply make my customers buy more. If they have the money to come back for more in short time, why can't they just buy more now? And from the users point of view, if I were willing to break the law in the first place, I'd still do it in the second. All I would have to do is hide the rest. An other thing to consider is the fact (I think) that this new law doesn't make purchasing drugs legal, so if users do buy small quantities, they would still be committing a crime. Now, if I remember correctly, the cartels fighting in Mexico traffic weed, so why would they give weed the biggest allowance if they are trying to catch dealers selling small amounts frequently?
 
I read an article about this in a in a Medical Marijuana magazine --- it said that 150 micrograms of LSD is the legal limit. The article could have been wrong, but I am 100% sure that it said 150 micrograms. Alll the other amounts posted are correct, I believe (though it did not mention MDx)
 
The last time this came up it was suggested that this was a convenient way to exhort people for more money.

"Oh... you hayve .52 g of cocaine. Maybe your traveler's cheques would compeeeensate."

"How do I reech theese keeeds?"

Peace,
PL
 
Pimp Lazy said:
The last time this came up it was suggested that this was a convenient way to exhort people for more money.

"Oh... you hayve .52 g of cocaine. Maybe your traveler's cheques would compeeeensate."

"How do I reech theese keeeds?"

Peace,
PL
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And what was the previous way again?

"Oh... you have 0.02g of cocaine (a bump's worth stuck to the inside of a bag)"....etc.

What was your point, really? Having all drugs illegal is an easy and convenient way to extort money out of people.
 
I think this is a landmark, allbeit the amounts are a bit too small...particularly being that these laws claim to protect addicts...and addicts tend to need well-above-average dosages due to tolerance. And when they can they pick up as much as their wallet can handle. Its too bad that Mexico does not really have as much influence or credibility as needed to inspire other nations, like the U.S., or Great Britain to do the same.:\
 
Captain.Heroin said:
And what was the previous way again?

"Oh... you have 0.02g of cocaine (a bump's worth stuck to the inside of a bag)"....etc.

What was your point, really? Having all drugs illegal is an easy and convenient way to extort money out of people.
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People would be more forthcoming with their possession etc. my point was clear.
 
Do you guys think cops willreally be walking around with mg scales weighing the shit and busting balls over mgs? It's the policy of not arresting users that matter not the weights.
 
Not necessarily. But I would think the Mexican cops will be just as corrupt as before, and will bust balls regardless if they think you might have something over the limit.
 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=373156&page=9

Post #210 is about the scene in Baja, mostly TJ.

So do you guys think that Mexico will turn one of its nicer cities in Baja into the next Amsterdam?
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What nicer city. Like Rosarito? Mexicali?8)

Basically, in TJ there are areas and districts where open air drug dealing is very common place. I would not expect any cities in Baja to become the next Amsterdam- I think that's a poor analogy. But certain districts in TJ today (which I won't name) are much more like Platzspitz in Zurich circa mid 80s- early 90s- a much better analogy of the way things are currently- in other words wonton open air drug use and sale- the wild, wild west- not the tame "coffee shops" and "smartshops" and pussy rip off hard drug street scene you find in Amsterdam.

This law will change nothing, trust me. If you have money (ie your a cavacho) the cops will shake you down no matter how much less than a particular drug legal limit you have- and you will be wise to pay them the required "fine"- I wouldn't count on any recomendations of drug abuse programs for first offenders who happen to be gringos.

The debate about the limit on LSD being ridiculous- the point is moot-try finding LSD in Mexico- maybe you might find a scene for it in Mexico City amoung upper middle class youths who typically enjoy a great deal of immunity from the police regarding casual drug use... maybe, but I'm sure availability of the drug is very limited.

I took acid before crossing the border to party in TJ in the early 90s. I believe that some places and cities complement certain highs and drugs. TJ is a city that definetely doesn't complement the LSD experience- one of the worst acid trips of my life8o
but that's another thread.

What is important is the symbolic value of this legislation- that one more country is unwilling to participate fully in the Crimes Against Humanity that define the war on drugs. And in international relations/ diplomacy symbolism is extreemly important.

Mexico in the 90s- When I came to San Diego to go to college a representative of the US Consulate in TJ spoke to us during orientation. He warned us that at that time possession of a joint could land you in a mexican prison for 2 years. That was the penalty on the books- but a bribe could usually get you out of trouble. Otherwise the prisons there ( my former heroin connect was a one time guest) consisted of no locked cells- you were un protected against other inmates and your family would have to hire someone to bring you food- or you starved. Comming back from trips to Mazatlan on the train- the Federales, Military, and elite antinarcoticos squads "mexican vice" would board the train at different times on the way home- and go through all your lugage with drug sniffing drugs and sub machine guns. If they found any drugs they would haul you away summarily on the spot- to show the US State Dept what an effective job they were doing- by arresting American college kids. The real smugglers had carte blanche all the way to the border.

The war on terror, ect...has led to a tightening of the border- I've actually walked following the beach sand from IB to TJ (Bullring) in early 90s with no border patrol presence at the border line in sight- just an abandoned tower that day and a chain link fence that ended at the sand- I actually walked into mexico, went surfing, and walked the two miles back to my car in Imperial Beach. Now they are actually doing their job effectively for once-making it harder, but not impossible for drugs to cross into the US. The consequence is that unsold drugs have in the past couple of years accumulated in the border towns of Mexico leading to local drug epidemics- the cartels have to sell their drugs somewhere. There are other social reason for the proliferation of drug consumption in Mexico but the refreshing thing is that the Mexican government is taking an enlightened approach to deal with the drug epidemic and this country, usually years behind the US in social policy reform measures has pulled ahead of it's neighour(s) to the North in terms of pragmaticism.

So to summarize- the letter of the law is unimportant. Nothing will change in many mexican cities ( especially the cities of Baja where drugs are de facto decriminalized already ). And dumb ass foreigners who go to mexico and think that they can go down there and act like arogant assholes without respect for the locals and lacking simple discretion and common decency, will, inspite of this new legislation, suffer the same fate of previous generations of disrespectful dipshits. So caveat emptor.
 
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^^^damn, I thought there were still places in mexico where mexicans were told to "move along." Ie, safe places where white people were safe.
 
Pimp Lazy said:
People would be more forthcoming with their possession etc. my point was clear.
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People are already forthcoming with drug possession. This site - for example.

If people are forthcoming with drug possession - this is their fault. Even if drug possession isn't illegal, one should know better than flaunt expensive possessions in public (if a cop isn't going to bust you - a homeless person may try to jack your shit).

So, in short, people "forthcoming with their possession" - they're fucked anyways.

Your point was not clear, try again.
 
Another article on this topic:

Mexico's new drug use law worries US police
Posted: Aug 26, 2009 12:25 PM PDT
Updated: Aug 28, 2009 3:10 PM PDT
By JULIE WATSON
Associated Press Writer
MEXICO CITY (AP) - Mexico now has one of the world's most liberal laws for drug users after eliminating jail time for small amounts of marijuana, cocaine and even heroin, LSD and methamphetamine.

"All right!" said a grinning Ivan Rojas, a rail-thin 20-year-old addict who endured police harassment during the decade he has spent sleeping in Mexico City's gritty streets and subway stations.

But stunned police on the U.S. side of the border say the law contradicts President Felipe Calderon's drug war, and some fear it could make Mexico a destination for drug-fueled spring breaks and tourism.

Tens of thousands of American college students flock to Cancun and Acapulco each year to party at beachside discos offering wet T-shirt contests and all-you-can-drink deals.

"Now they will go because they can get drugs," said San Diego Police Chief William Lansdowne. "For a country that has experienced thousands of deaths from warring drug cartels for many years, it defies logic why they would pass a law that will clearly encourage drug use."

Enacted last week, the Mexican law is part of a growing trend across Latin America to treat drug use as a public health problem and make room in overcrowded prisons for violent traffickers rather than small-time users.

Brazil and Uruguay have already eliminated jail time for people carrying small amounts of drugs for personal use, although possession is still considered a crime in Brazil. Argentina's Supreme Court ruled out prison for pot possession on Tuesday and officials say they plan to propose a law keeping drug consumers out of the justice system.

Colombia has decriminalized marijuana and cocaine for personal use, but kept penalties for other drugs.

Officials in those countries say they are not legalizing drugs - just drawing a line between users, dealers and traffickers amid a fierce drug war. Mexico's law toughens penalties for selling drugs even as it relaxes the law against using them.

"Latin America is disappointed with the results of the current drug policies and is exploring alternatives," said Ricardo Soberon, director of the Drug Research and Human Rights Center in Lima, Peru.

As Mexico ratcheted up its fight against cartels, drug use jumped more than 50 percent between 2002 and 2008, according to the government, and today prisons are filled with addicts, many under the age of 25.

Rojas has spent half his life snorting cocaine and sniffing paint thinner as he roamed Mexico City's streets in a daze. Most days he was roused awake by police demanding a bribe and forcing him to move along, he said.

"It's good they have this law so police don't grab you," said Rojas, whose name, I-V-A-N, is tattooed across his knuckles.

Rojas hit bottom three weeks ago when he could not score enough money for drugs by begging and found himself shaking uncontrollably. He accepted an offer for help from workers from a drug rehabilitation center who approached him on the street.

"Drugs were finishing me off," said Rojas, whose 13-year-old brother died of an overdose eight years ago. "I lost my brother. I lost my youth."

Juan Martin Perez, who runs Caracol, the nonprofit center helping Rojas, said the government has poured millions of dollars into the drug war but has done little to treat addicts. His group relies on grants from foundations.

The new law requires officials to encourage drug users to seek treatment in lieu of jail, but the government has not allocated more money for organizations like Caracol that are supposed to help them.

Treatment is mandatory for third-time offenders, but the law does not specify penalties for noncompliance.

"This was passed quickly and quietly but it's going to have to be adjusted to match reality," Perez said.

Supporters of the change point to Portugal, which removed jail terms for drug possession for personal use in 2001 and still has one of the lowest rates of cocaine use in Europe.

Portugal's law defines personal use as the equivalent of what one person would consume over 10 days. Police confiscate the drugs and the suspect must appear before a government commission, which reviews the person's drug consumption patterns. Users may be fined, sent for treatment or put on probation.

Foreigners caught with drugs still face arrest in Portugal, a measure to prevent drug tourism.

The same is not true for Mexico, where there is no jail time for anyone caught with roughly four marijuana cigarettes, four lines of cocaine, 50 milligrams of heroin, 40 milligrams of methamphetamine or 0.015 milligrams of LSD.

That's what concerns U.S. law enforcement at the border.

"It provides an officially sanctioned market for the consumption of the world's most dangerous drugs," San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore said. "For the people of San Diego the risk is direct and lethal. There are those who will drive to Mexico to use drugs and return to the U.S. under their influence."

Don Thornhill, a retired Drug Enforcement Administration supervisor who investigated Mexican cartels for 25 years, said Mexico's rampant drug violence will likely deter most U.S. drug users, and the new law will allow Mexican police to focus on "the bigger fish."

The Bush administration criticized a similar bill proposed in Mexico in 2006, prompting then-President Vicente Fox to send it back to Congress. But Washington has stayed quiet this time, praising Calderon for his fight against drug cartels - a struggle that has seen some 11,000 people killed since Calderon took office in 2006.

"We work with Mexico every day to combat illegal drugs and cartel violence," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said when asked about the law. "And we look forward to continuing that cooperation."

_____

Associated Press writers Marco Sibaja in Brasilia, Vivian Sequera in Bogota, Harold Heckle in Madrid, Elliot Spagat in San Diego, Olga Rodriguez in Mexico City and Matt Lee in Washington contributed to this report.
 
San Diego Police Chief William Lansdowne: "... it defies logic why they would pass a law that will clearly encourage drug use"
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The law does not encourage drug use but rather tries to control police abuse of citizens just relaxing with their substance of choice.
 
Huaca makes a good point.

Also the dumbass sherif remarks:

There are those who will drive to Mexico to use drugs and return to the U.S. under their influence."
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I'm sorry to break the news to you buddy, but there is more than one American who does this already. :p:p:p

When I was using, at the clinic I heard that alot of people were moving to TJ/ Baja or making day trips for dope. I always thought that strange- not only did the cops seem like a big problem, but the chance of an American getting ripped off seemed high. Going down there and getting pharms traditionally had been the big thing. Also, what some people I knew used to do is register at clinics in TJ. While the ceiling back then was 80 mg here- it was higher there so people, especially residents of south county would dose in the US and then go down to TJ to get their juice. As it turns out the scene for illicit drugs currently is booming for more than just oxy, K, rohypnol, anabolic steroids and other pharmaceuticals. Cocaine, heroin (chiva), meth (globitos), crack (rocher), cannabis (mota) are all easy to find. It turns out these days that the TJ river is probably as poluted with riggs and old tar wrappers;) as much as e.coli and shoping carts.Cuban Cigars, high wormwood absinthe, fireworks, switch blades, and women are also easily obtained.

The real problem is people driving back to the US under the influence of the drug alcohol.:(
 
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0.015 milligrams of LSD.
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So, the law IS 15 micrograms. The absurdity of it just makes me smile. If you are on ANY MORE than a 15 microgram THRESHOLD dose where you aren't even tripping, you're breaking the law. The LSD law didn't do shit technically...I mean in all practical sense it is still 100% illegal because ONE average crappy tab these days is usually at least 40 micrograms...I mean who the fuck would ever purposely take that much trying to trip?

I'm so, so stoked that I can walk around with a quarter of a hit in my pocket. But the hit would have to be no more than 60 mcg total, otherwise the law would be broke. ;)
 
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