Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
-> Suboxone Mega Thread.
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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010
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Eight0Eight
Bluelighter
I've just started going to the gym twice a day.
I hoping the exhaustion will help me sleep through more of the sub WD.
* If I go to the gym at 7.30am - when the morning WD is at its worst, would the excersise make my brain release endorphines, and lessen the Subutex WD symtoms?
Or is my brain just not able to do this at all at the moment?
I hoping the exhaustion will help me sleep through more of the sub WD.
* If I go to the gym at 7.30am - when the morning WD is at its worst, would the excersise make my brain release endorphines, and lessen the Subutex WD symtoms?
Or is my brain just not able to do this at all at the moment?
titicaca2
Bluelighter
I don't remember going to bed, thanks to the xanax and klonipin. But I woke up this morning and didn't feel the need to take a suboxone. Is that it? I'm done? 60 hours from my last dose and I'm out of withdrawals?
Voodoochild870
Bluelighter
Hello all,
Haven't posted on here in probably a good year, year and a half. Little info first, in early '07 I started with Oxycontin and was on it about a year. I got put on probabtion and wanted to stop anyways, so I went onto Suboxone in April '08 after not wanting to tough it out with the Oxy w/d. I was on Suboxone for 11 months and unwillingly got off of it this past February. I was down to 4mgs a day by February and had maybe 3 weeks left when I had a seizure from Xanax w/d. Since I was in the hospital for a good 3 days almost (they didnt wanna believe I had a seizure from xanax withdrawal) I just stopped my Suboxone, and got off that and xanax at the same time. Probably about a month later after getting off Suboxone I started taking Morphine and have been taking it maybe once/twice every week/week and a half. Also started doin Heroin on occasion. The point is I've just been chipping, not using every day.
So the other day I got 15 8mg Suboxone's and Ive always enjoyed the buzz and never had any side effects I consider negative. However, I'm concerned about taking one because I just took Morphine this past Monday. I took 60mgs in the afternoon , and that wasn't even close to enough for me. Prior to Mon. it had been about a week since doing Morphine last.
Now it's Wednesday. Been about 48 hours exactly since taking that Morphine and I really want to get some relief here, but I definitely don't wanna bring on w/d symptoms.
I know doing heroin, morphine, or methadone and then taking suboxone can cause w/d, but everywhere I've read it has just said "Taking Suboxone shortly after taking narcotics such as..... will most likely cause withdrawal symptoms"
What the hell is "shortly after"? The same day? The day after?? I need clarification because there's that part of me wanting to take the risk and feel good, but on the flipside I know I can take this risk and also feel worse (I dont even feel that bad to begin with rreally, just want to catch a nod).
So any straight forward answer would be appreciated. thanks
Haven't posted on here in probably a good year, year and a half. Little info first, in early '07 I started with Oxycontin and was on it about a year. I got put on probabtion and wanted to stop anyways, so I went onto Suboxone in April '08 after not wanting to tough it out with the Oxy w/d. I was on Suboxone for 11 months and unwillingly got off of it this past February. I was down to 4mgs a day by February and had maybe 3 weeks left when I had a seizure from Xanax w/d. Since I was in the hospital for a good 3 days almost (they didnt wanna believe I had a seizure from xanax withdrawal) I just stopped my Suboxone, and got off that and xanax at the same time. Probably about a month later after getting off Suboxone I started taking Morphine and have been taking it maybe once/twice every week/week and a half. Also started doin Heroin on occasion. The point is I've just been chipping, not using every day.
So the other day I got 15 8mg Suboxone's and Ive always enjoyed the buzz and never had any side effects I consider negative. However, I'm concerned about taking one because I just took Morphine this past Monday. I took 60mgs in the afternoon , and that wasn't even close to enough for me. Prior to Mon. it had been about a week since doing Morphine last.
Now it's Wednesday. Been about 48 hours exactly since taking that Morphine and I really want to get some relief here, but I definitely don't wanna bring on w/d symptoms.
I know doing heroin, morphine, or methadone and then taking suboxone can cause w/d, but everywhere I've read it has just said "Taking Suboxone shortly after taking narcotics such as..... will most likely cause withdrawal symptoms"
What the hell is "shortly after"? The same day? The day after?? I need clarification because there's that part of me wanting to take the risk and feel good, but on the flipside I know I can take this risk and also feel worse (I dont even feel that bad to begin with rreally, just want to catch a nod).
So any straight forward answer would be appreciated. thanks
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Actually, in what I've learned in psychology while in undergrad, exercise does not effect sleep at all. It may make you physically exhausted to the point where you may want to lie down, but your sleep isn't increased or decreased as a result of exercise.
Your brain is able to release endorphins to help the withdrawal, however how much it will help you out is probably not going to be but so helpful, if that makes sense.
When you're still under the acute effects of the drug. If you're still feeling high from morphine or heroin, it is a bad idea to take Suboxone. You should wait until you are well aware the drug has fully left your system before taking Suboxone.
Also, if you "just want to catch a nod" it sounds like you might want to cut back on that chipping.
Voodoochild870
Bluelighter
Well, right now I am completely aware I'm not under the influence of Morphine. I know it stays in you 2-4 days. I have a fast metabolism, so I'm guessing it would be safe to take a Suboxone??
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
You'll be fine because it's ceased effecting you. It may not be fully metabolized out, but it's no longer effecting your mu-opioid receptors, and therefore you can use Suboxone to positive effect. It will be safe to take it, yes.
Voodoochild870
Bluelighter
Thank you kindly sir
StaffWriter
Bluelighter
What are the PAWS like for Suboxone? My doc claims that all of the opioid receptors are cut back in your brain while on a partial agonist. Therefore, the energy thing should'nt be a big problem or what? I don't want to have spent $10,000 and end up still feeling like shit. Is this guy shittin' me?
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Individual results vary...but IMO he's shitting you.
I feel like holy hell coming off of bupe.
Not everyone experiences this though.
The important thing is, even if bupe WD is slightly uncomfortable, it will be loads better than an acute heroin WD. This is my understanding, not everyone finds the same result though.
Eight0Eight
Bluelighter
Well, I've just got back from the gym again (well 1/2 hour ago) - in an attempt to rid my self of subutex WD.
I have 0.4mg sitting right here. but I just kow if I shoot it up no, I'm in for a world of shit come 3.30am.
I'vw found that the gym DOES NOT give me an endorphin rush. I suppose my brain is still in capable of this.
*BUT* I have found that it gives me a massive sense of acheivment. I got changed, had a shower, walked to the gym, worked out for 2 hours and walked back home - all in WD.
When I was a full blown smackhead I would never have done that that. Feeling good about yourself, without the aid of opiates is something I think we have to learn again. And (for me at least) this has proved fruitfull. Hope it helps someone else in a similair situation.
I have 0.4mg sitting right here. but I just kow if I shoot it up no, I'm in for a world of shit come 3.30am.
I'vw found that the gym DOES NOT give me an endorphin rush. I suppose my brain is still in capable of this.
*BUT* I have found that it gives me a massive sense of acheivment. I got changed, had a shower, walked to the gym, worked out for 2 hours and walked back home - all in WD.
When I was a full blown smackhead I would never have done that that. Feeling good about yourself, without the aid of opiates is something I think we have to learn again. And (for me at least) this has proved fruitfull. Hope it helps someone else in a similair situation.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I actually get endorphin rushes from working out. It also gives me a sense of achievement which is why I really like working out as often as possible. I tend to try to go on a walk every day, and do muscular work outs whenever I have the time to.
I know what it's like to try to quit IV buprenorphine, so good luck.
I know what it's like to try to quit IV buprenorphine, so good luck.
dopiate
Bluelighter
I lift about 3-4 times per week and i think it's immensely helpful.
I commend you for going to the gym when in W/D eight0eight because i don't think i would have the willpower to do it. I would just sit on the couch and feel sorry for myself.
Although you don't feel the endorphin rush due to your brain expecting SO much more, I do believe that it's helping you.
I always try and tell myself when i'm in W/D that i'll take it in an hour or thirty minutes and try and find something that will keep me busy for that amount of time.
Setting goals is the easiest method for me to keep my mind off w/d.
I commend you for going to the gym when in W/D eight0eight because i don't think i would have the willpower to do it. I would just sit on the couch and feel sorry for myself.
Although you don't feel the endorphin rush due to your brain expecting SO much more, I do believe that it's helping you.
I always try and tell myself when i'm in W/D that i'll take it in an hour or thirty minutes and try and find something that will keep me busy for that amount of time.
Setting goals is the easiest method for me to keep my mind off w/d.
How to Chip with Suboxone
So here's the question for all you suboxone users who also occasionaly use on the weekends or whatnot.
whats the formula for chipping an opiate with it? do i take less sub the day i am going to chip or do i take more to keep high levels of sub in my system.
what do i do the next day, wait the standard 16 hours to take my sub or can i take it sooner since sub is already in my system and has been over the past weeks. Do I take my regular dose?
Also imagine if I take a small piece of sub everyday that I am chipping in the morning. How many days in a row is it plausible for me to do my opiate and not get hooked again or rather not having withdrawals?
I've tested it for 2 days and it seemed to work fine. Next day just took a little bit more sub and I was fine. How many days has anyone succesfully been able to do this in a row?
AND, to the more important question...is this whole chipping generally a bad idea? I mean I have been clean for only a month, and have chipped once on the weekend. The reason I did was just couldn't take the cravings. I did my opiate for two days Fri, Sat, and Sun was fine and Monday got back to my sub routine....Is this just playing with fire and just asking to get back on the opiate eventually? NEED ANSWERS from experienced users!!
Thanks..
So here's the question for all you suboxone users who also occasionaly use on the weekends or whatnot.
whats the formula for chipping an opiate with it? do i take less sub the day i am going to chip or do i take more to keep high levels of sub in my system.
what do i do the next day, wait the standard 16 hours to take my sub or can i take it sooner since sub is already in my system and has been over the past weeks. Do I take my regular dose?
Also imagine if I take a small piece of sub everyday that I am chipping in the morning. How many days in a row is it plausible for me to do my opiate and not get hooked again or rather not having withdrawals?
I've tested it for 2 days and it seemed to work fine. Next day just took a little bit more sub and I was fine. How many days has anyone succesfully been able to do this in a row?
AND, to the more important question...is this whole chipping generally a bad idea? I mean I have been clean for only a month, and have chipped once on the weekend. The reason I did was just couldn't take the cravings. I did my opiate for two days Fri, Sat, and Sun was fine and Monday got back to my sub routine....Is this just playing with fire and just asking to get back on the opiate eventually? NEED ANSWERS from experienced users!!
Thanks..
johanneschimpo
Bluelighter
In short (very short), yes.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Why I am not a "chipper"
I was able to use a half gram in between suboxone doses and not be "addicted" but over time I decided that heroin didn't compete with Suboxone because I personally became annoyed with WD symptoms more than I enjoyed the rush and high.
And if that happens, you'll run out of Suboxone as an option for quitting, and may have to look into methadone, etc.
Then again, as long as you're dedicated to not letting a drug take over your life, etc, there's noting "morally" wrong with using again. I've certainly done this, however the last time I used heroin instead of just using suboxone was over 9 months ago. There's a reason why I chose to get clean for good instead of "chipping". In essence, using heroin keeps your opiate tolerance up.
By using just Suboxone, I've managed to push my opiate tolerance down to the point where it is pretty low. An 8mg pill of Suboxone lasts me around a week. I enjoy having a lower opiate tolerance, and I enjoy making my Suboxone last me as long as possible, while still getting a lot out of it.
I think for the vast majority of people who would have to ask, it is a yes, so I don't fully "disagree" either, you're probably right.
However, I was able to use heroin every now and then while I was on Suboxone, and for the last 9 months I have been clean from heroin and I feel great. I don't have any desire to use again, and don't have any cravings.
Just because this is how it has worked out for me, doesn't mean that this is how it will be for you. Other people would have become re-addicted if they had followed the path I did.
You don't take suboxone at all, and wait a good long while for it to start working itself out of your system.
There's no "hours until" formula you can use as everyone is individually different. This also depends largely on your DOC (I used heroin, I believe you used OC80's?) so, you must wait until you're in withdrawal. Buprenorphine is a lot more effective when taken when needed.
Once again, this is an individual question. Some people would get hooked again with one single. Others could go a gram or more.
Well...how long was anyone able to use in a row, and then quit with suboxone? A really, really long time. However, the point of being on suboxone isn't getting to use; it's quitting for good.
I was able to use a half gram in between suboxone doses and not be "addicted" but over time I decided that heroin didn't compete with Suboxone because I personally became annoyed with WD symptoms more than I enjoyed the rush and high.
It is sort of playing with fire. It may not be for everyone, however it in essence is devaluing your medication. If you're saying "screw this medicine, I'm going to go use" you may, in the future, find yourself saying "screw this" more often than not, though that may not be what it is like now.
And if that happens, you'll run out of Suboxone as an option for quitting, and may have to look into methadone, etc.
Then again, as long as you're dedicated to not letting a drug take over your life, etc, there's noting "morally" wrong with using again. I've certainly done this, however the last time I used heroin instead of just using suboxone was over 9 months ago. There's a reason why I chose to get clean for good instead of "chipping". In essence, using heroin keeps your opiate tolerance up.
By using just Suboxone, I've managed to push my opiate tolerance down to the point where it is pretty low. An 8mg pill of Suboxone lasts me around a week. I enjoy having a lower opiate tolerance, and I enjoy making my Suboxone last me as long as possible, while still getting a lot out of it.
I don't fully agree as I think it's an individual thing. It is, undoubtedly, yes for some. Whereas, some others, it is a no.
I think for the vast majority of people who would have to ask, it is a yes, so I don't fully "disagree" either, you're probably right.
However, I was able to use heroin every now and then while I was on Suboxone, and for the last 9 months I have been clean from heroin and I feel great. I don't have any desire to use again, and don't have any cravings.
Just because this is how it has worked out for me, doesn't mean that this is how it will be for you. Other people would have become re-addicted if they had followed the path I did.
StaffWriter
Bluelighter
Well, that's the response I was hoping for, at least on the withdrawal part. I just hope I don't end up feeling extremely fatigued and depressed at the end of this journey. I'm tapering off from 8 mg to 6 mg for a couple of weeks and go down by 2mg, as long as I am comfortable. Because of the energy I get from Bupe and opiates in general, I'd really like to be on a maintenance therapy for life, not to get high, but to feel normal. All my life I've felt depressed and fatigued. It's like opiates were the cure for the way I felt. And not in a sense as to always get high. Just having a small dose of hydrocodone satisfied me for the 2-4 hours that it does work. When I get a much better job with good benefits, I will look into Methadone. I hate to aim for failure, I'm just not so sure how well this suboxone thing is going to do. We'll see how this works out. Thanks Capt.
Eight0Eight
Bluelighter
When I use, I continue to take my subtex throughout.
I get no sickness at all.
I get no sickness at all.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I personally look forward to tapering off of Suboxone, but I always want to have some just in case.
It's understandable, and I think people should be allowed to stay on BMT. Paying > $100/month to not be addicted to hard opiates is more than worth it.
ruffneck81
Greenlighter
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well im here for some advice.
i fell off the wagon about 9 days ago. i was on suboxone for over 3 weeks, then decided i was going to just enjoy the weekend...well i did, and about two days later i was scared to take suboxone again because when i first got on suboxone i went through the worst possible pain anyone could go through. i went from 600 mgs of oc's to 16mgs of suboxone, and i was sick as hell for 5 days before my body started to make use of the suboxone. so im back on oxy, but not 600mgs per day, im at the most taking 60 to 90mgs of oxy. i so badly want to get back on the train, but im scared to death that ill go through hell again. when i was induced with suboxone i was in severe wds, i waited 18 hours before i started suboxone, and it was apparently not enough, or it may of been just my body didnt like the suboxone, because i went through the worst wds for 5 days. i mean you name it i had it, i was ready to die. so now i want to get back on but i have no idea how long to wait, and what to do. i absolutely cannot stand to be that sick again, so i dont know what to do, im almost ready to say screw this, and just stay on the oxy for the rest of my life. im glad that im able to control my intake right now, but for how long. im such an idiot for letting the sub out of my system. can anyone help?
kind regards,
ruff
i fell off the wagon about 9 days ago. i was on suboxone for over 3 weeks, then decided i was going to just enjoy the weekend...well i did, and about two days later i was scared to take suboxone again because when i first got on suboxone i went through the worst possible pain anyone could go through. i went from 600 mgs of oc's to 16mgs of suboxone, and i was sick as hell for 5 days before my body started to make use of the suboxone. so im back on oxy, but not 600mgs per day, im at the most taking 60 to 90mgs of oxy. i so badly want to get back on the train, but im scared to death that ill go through hell again. when i was induced with suboxone i was in severe wds, i waited 18 hours before i started suboxone, and it was apparently not enough, or it may of been just my body didnt like the suboxone, because i went through the worst wds for 5 days. i mean you name it i had it, i was ready to die. so now i want to get back on but i have no idea how long to wait, and what to do. i absolutely cannot stand to be that sick again, so i dont know what to do, im almost ready to say screw this, and just stay on the oxy for the rest of my life. im glad that im able to control my intake right now, but for how long. im such an idiot for letting the sub out of my system. can anyone help?
kind regards,
ruff
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