Cannabis and Serotonin

[Clean_Cut]

Found this thread: http://www.marijuana.com/medicinal-marijuana/9843-does-smoking-release-seratonin.html

the knowledge of the posters seems to be very questionable but I found this comment which listed a source:

Cannabinoids have been found to inhibit activation of serotonin receptors which explain the antiemetic effects.

Fan, P. (1995). Cannabinoid agonists inhibit the activation of 5-HT3 receptors in rat nodose ganglion neurons. Journal of Neurophysiology, 73(2), 907-910.


What do you guys think of this?

 

[Roujaxian]

Ya the original post says:

My psychology teacher told me that all "drugs" cause your brain to produce seratonin (the feel good chemical) and if you used any drug for long enough your body would eventually stop producing seratonin on it's own...causing you to have to use the drug to feel good.

How true is that about marijuana?

However the response I found was very knowledgeable!

As far as i'm aware, the only chemical that causes serotonin production is tryptophan, which is naturally found in many foods. tryptophan is then converted into 5-htp, and 5-htp is converted into serotonin, this process takes roughly 12 hours. You can buy 5-htp capsules at certain pharmacies and even order them online, these, I guess, would be the only "drug" that causes serotonin production.

Using capsules to restore serotonin levels, instead of eating tryptophan rich foods, is much quicker, but generally, doctors will tell you it's better to eat the food, just like they recommend food over vitamins.

I wouldn't say serotonin is the feel good chemical, there's plenty more (i.e. endorphins), but it is the most important, I think.

As for what your psychology teacher said, he's either got his information a bit twisted, or you've twisted it a bit while relaying. No recreational drug actually produces serotonin, but most (i'm not sure about "all") drugs would trigger the release of certain amounts.

The concern your teacher probably has is that drug users will release too much serotonin, too often, and so cause for your body to "downgrade" (i.e. reduce the amount of) serotonin receptors in your brain. When this happens, then your brain might not be able to efficiently release normal amounts of serotonin in every day life, and this could cause depression, insomnia etc.

The good news is, these problems can really only occur with abusive and extended use of MDMA (Ecstasy) and other closely related drugs (MDA, MDEA etc.). Also, your body will never stop producing serotonin, it is essential to living.

You can rest assured that your use of marijuana will never significantly affect your serotonin levels.

In regard to Cannabis's effect on serotonin receptors I really have no clue but it seems like there should definitely be some activity

According to wikipedia:

However, with the discovery that the 5-HT3 receptor plays a prominent role in chemotherapy- and radiotherapy-induced vomiting...

So that seems to make a lot of sense!

 

[Chainer]

The post above says what I was already thinking: use of marijuana will probably never significantly affect your serotonin levels, one way or another.

 

[respect authority]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about getting all e-tarded with extensive use of weed... you'd feel much more of a hangover the day after smoking if marijuana really did affect serotonin levels that much.

On the other hand, weed definitely interacts in very interesting ways with serotonistic drugs, judging from the number of people who report noticeable potentiation when combined with 5-HTP, or the way weed can seriously boost pretty much every psychedelic drug.

 

[Zzyzx]

The anti-depressant and intoxicating effects of cannabis are due to its chemical similarity to natural substances in the brain known as ‘endo-cannabinoids,’ which are released under conditions of high stress or pain . These receptors could have a direct effect on the cells producing serotonin.

Some study conducted of rats tend to demonstrate that low doses of Cannabis will raise the level of serotonin in the brain (not the production)

However, the same study show that too much Cannabis will have a dramatic and opposite effect, lowering the soerotonin levels much lower than the control group

 

[Clean_Cut]

Thats quite interesting Zz.
If the levels are of serotonin in the brain are raised by cannabis, does this mean that smoking may be a bad idea whilst trying to recover from taking E (I.e taking time to replenish your serotonin). My first thought is that this will be the case, as levels are raised - yet production isnt?

 

[chompy]

eating chocolate will cause your brain to release seretonin because of the pleasure derived from eating said chocolate

 

[swilow]

^Incorrect. What you may be trying to say is that eating chocolate will relaease dopamine, which is sometimes known as the "reward chemical".

Cannabis DOES effect serotonin levels by decreasing the amount of proteins, sugars, nutrients etc. taking up by the brain. Most neurotrasnmitters are decreased by cannabis use, though glutamate (the excititory neurochemical) is decreased the msot- possibly leading to the relaxation that cannabis can induce.

Its effects on serotonin receptors involved in vomiting are the opposite of a serotonin release (if it even happens). By agonising or deactivating the ability for serotonin to stimulate a certain receptor, the likelihood of vomiting and nausea is decreased. However, it must be taken into account that a lot of litereature implies that cannabinoids both increase and decrease levels of serotonin. http://www.cannabis.net/misc/euphoria-dysphoria.html

The amount of different cannabinoids present in cannabis make definiteve statements difficult.

 

[chompy]

doh, i knew it was one of those neurotransmitters. you nailed it dead on.

 

[Zzyzx]

Thats quite interesting Zz.
If the levels are of serotonin in the brain are raised by cannabis, does this mean that smoking may be a bad idea whilst trying to recover from taking E (I.e taking time to replenish your serotonin). My first thought is that this will be the case, as levels are raised - yet production isnt?

It is my understanding that when smoking a small ammount of cannabis, some serotonin will be released, increasing the levels in the brain. However when smoking too much, no serotonin will be released, in fact normal and natural release of serotonin will be affected.

I don't think that this is sufficient to have any impact on your MDMA tolerance.

I think those facts are very interesting when it comes to the MDMA and Cannabis combo though as some users report smoking too much while rolling will have a negative effect on their experience.

I will probably read alot on the subject since it interests me I'll make sure to post any interesting findings

What you may be trying to say is that eating chocolate will relaease dopamine, which is sometimes known as the "reward chemical".

I think he just misinterpeted. Chocolate does have an effect on serotonin production. Chocolate contains a fair ammount of tryptophan, an essential amino acid and precursor to serotonin. It will however not induce the release of serotonin

 

[Chainer]

ZZyzx, let me know what you find...

I'm interested to know how it effects serotonin. Everyone knows that smoking weed after E helps with the comedown, but I did not fathom that it was because it somehow effected the levels or production of serotonin.

Could you point me in the direction of a website which could explain how cannabis works? I wasn't under the impression that it had anything at all to do with serotonin. If this is the case, would 5htp actually create potentiation with cannabis?

 

[clamjuice]

I think its too early to make any clear cut statements about serotonin and cannabis. We do know that cannabis and its actives play some role on serotonin but what areas and how much they are affected are still kind of up in the air, from the articles ive read.

Its obviously not the major target of the drug, but you have serotonin sites all over your body, so to come to a definite conclusion will take years of research and less stigma to get permission to do these types of research. Im sure lots of stoners would volunteer if they were asked though hehe

 

[FrostyMcFailure]

^Incorrect. What you may be trying to say is that eating chocolate will relaease dopamine, which is sometimes known as the "reward chemical".

As far as love goes there's a few more neurotransmitters/chemicals at work aside from dopamine.

These chemicals — PEA or phenylethylamine (which speeds up the flow of information between nerve cells), DOPAMINE (the feel-good chemical) and NOREPINEPHRINE (which stimulates the production of adrenaline and makes our heart race fast) — are responsible for that energized and euphoric feeling that new lovers experience.

Later on it becomes Endorphins followed by the not so well known but very interesting "OXYTOCIN".


On Chocolates behalf i'd like to clear something up that is slightly different then the four stages of love.

Chocolate is full of phenylethylamine — a chemical cousin of amphetamine.

Chocolate also contains ANANDAMIDE, a compound that binds to the same receptors in the brain as marijuana. Hence the slight feeling of elation.

Now, mind you, the body also produces its own anandamide, and other chemicals in chocolate slow down the breakdown of this interesting anti-depressant.

unrelated but good to know.

The idea that serotonin is all we need to feel happy and peppy misses the point completely. What we need is a good neurotransmitter balance, with good neuropeptides thrown in. If one neurotransmitter, be it dopamine or serotonin, is artificially raised, expect trouble. Dopamine has been called our "reward chemical." It delivers an emotional high. You feel pleasurably excited, energetic, sexy, passionate, euphoric. Crenshaw goes so far as to say that "dopamine addicts you to the person you love." Serotonin, on the other hand, is the tranquility chemical, and it lowers sex drive. In addition, while dopamine lowers insulin, serotonin increases insulin. Now, in men, higher insulin means lower testosterone.

Linkage

 

[muie]

Has anybody noticed any wierd reactions from smoking daily and taking 5-HTP treatment?

 

[Clean_Cut]

Bump!

 

[turbocooper]

Has anybody noticed any wierd reactions from smoking daily and taking 5-HTP treatment?

I have noticed that I get surges of overwhelming happiness when getting ready to sit down and smoke a bowl (I have the same routine so when my mind knows its starting it goes wild). I have been taking 5-htp for about 3 years (wired effects after 2) and it and cannabis has really helped my life out, I know that these overwhelming surges of pleasure is probably not good (thought it was serotonin syndrome but symptoms are different) I have not noticed anything terrible yet and am planning on sticking with my good old friend 5-htp

Ignore my impaired typing ability I just got through with my evening bowl.

 

[Alegio]

As far as love goes there's a few more neurotransmitters/chemicals at work aside from dopamine.



Later on it becomes Endorphins followed by the not so well known but very interesting "OXYTOCIN".


On Chocolates behalf i'd like to clear something up that is slightly different then the four stages of love.





unrelated but good to know.



Linkage

For everyone that confuses serotonin effects with dopamins, I recommend them to read this article http://www.whatisserotonin.com/sero...nd-similarities-among-serotonin-and-dopamine/

 

[nick3593]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about getting all e-tarded with extensive use of weed... you'd feel much more of a hangover the day after smoking if marijuana really did affect serotonin levels that much. <SNIP>
On the other hand, weed definitely interacts in very interesting ways with serotonistic drugs, judging from the number of people who report noticeable potentiation when combined with 5-HTP, or the way weed can seriously boost pretty much every psychedelic drug.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I find it interesting the way a runner's high is caused by the body's own cannabinoids (endocannabinoids). It just shows that these pleasurable feelings associated with exercise aren't necessarily due to neurotransmitters such as dopamine or serotonin. I wonder how the endocannabinoid system comes into play when eating high fat/sugar desserts that are highly enjoyable?