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A serious thread about online poker

Any thoughts on VPIP/PFR in Omaha? (I was playing PLO, but same question for PLO H/L).

I noticed I was limping a lot of hands, something I wouldn't do in NLHE. I tightened up at the end, but I still think I should have been a lot tighter earlier (though people were playing worse hands than me....).

Also, one PLO hand that bugged me, I think I played it right: It's a fairly tight table (we're down to last 15 or so of 161). I've got TTJx (TJ suited) on button and everyone folds to me, I raise the pot. SB folds, short-stacked BB re-raises all-in. It's 2/1 to call. I'm 90% certain I should have called here, even if I think he has a better hand. Thoughts?

Back to NLHE: so if you had say 77 on the button with 3 limpers, you'd raise? Or fold? What would you do if re-raised?

Interesting to read the stats; I've played at tables recently where one player went out after 6 hands with 100/100 stats, another played about 40 with 80/15...most people at table were VPIP of 50 or so, and me and one other guy were folding every hand pre-flop, because someone was always raising big :D


I detest Omaha. I cannot make sense of the game. I much prefer hi-lo.

But yes, you have to call. Folding in omaha when getting 2 to 1 is jsut absurd.

In omaha I tend to be loose pre flop since so many hands have speculative value.

I used to KILL omaha hi lo sngs. I have a 17.2% Roi in 861 Omaha hi lo STTs played. That is NOT easy to do at Single table games.

I used to EIGHT table omaha hi lo cash games. That was insane.

as for the pocket 7s, If I have 15 BB or less, I ship, if I have more, I probably overlimp.
 
Ill be completely honest that the last 2 sets of cards I just got done playing have to be the most BRUTAL in terms of me being absolutely helpless by getting it in good TWICE and losing to two outs, and losing out of 24 straight 180s with some of the grossest beats I've ever seen back to back to back X20.

One of those sets, if I still broke shit when I lost there'd be holes all over my house and innocent bystanders would have broken faces.

I lack in the luck department, always have, and feel as if I always will.

Back in my college days when I used to blaze, I used to be able to keep my cool. But now that I am a sober kid, the want to break shit is extremely high.

What does it feel like to absolutely run over the competition and be a consistant winner? I bet it feels good.


I wish I knew. I guess I "win" consistently, but the swings are brutal. For example --

I have played 731 $69 sngs (45 man). My overall profit at them is $11,808 (21.54% ROI). That is good. 731 can be played in a month, though it has taken me longer because I used to play the $24 and mix in a few $69.

But let's examine how those 731 games have gone -- these are sequential chunks --

38 games 5995.25
47 games 3338.70 NEGATIVE
55 games 3202.80
29 games 1522.95 NEGATIVE
89 games 6210.75
83 games 1536.45 NEGATIVE
33 games 2741.40
75 games 3482.55 NEGATIVE
32 games 1605.45
53 games 3602.40 NEGATIVE
72 games 3356.10
47 games 2283 NEGATIVE
78 games 4458.60

During some of those losing streaks, I just want to destroy things. It is the worst feeling. I had losing streaks there of 40 in a row (!??), 28 in a row, 1 out of FIFTY (and that 1 was a weak 5th place), 1 out of 39, 1 out of 30.
It’s a game of highs and lows and it is really mentally draining.
 
nguboi, 55K board. I have K10. Villian is JJ. I rr all-in, he calls, hits a J on the river. Then, next hand later this... Even though I busted out, all I can do is laugh, 'cuz if I keep doing this in the long run I should be good.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t1375)
SB (t2065)
BB (t930)
UTG (t2780)
UTG+1 (t1985)
MP1 (t1005)
MP2 (t2075)
Hero (CO) (t1285)

Hero's M: 17.13

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q
club.gif
, Q
heart.gif

UTG calls t50, 1 fold, MP1 calls t50, 1 fold, Hero bets t200, 2 folds, BB calls t150, UTG calls t150, 1 fold

Flop: (t675) 7
heart.gif
, 2
heart.gif
, 7
diamond.gif
(3 players)
BB bets t50, UTG raises to t100, Hero raises to t1085 (All-In), BB calls t680 (All-In), UTG calls t985

Turn: (t3575) 2
club.gif
(3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t3575) 5
spade.gif
(3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t3575

Results:
BB had 3
spade.gif
, 7
club.gif
(full house, sevens over twos).
UTG had 7
spade.gif
, A
diamond.gif
(full house, sevens over twos).
Hero had Q
club.gif
, Q
heart.gif
(two pair, Queens and sevens).
Outcome: BB won t1433, UTG won t2142
 
And, the 400 $ MSOP event is tomorrow.

90 to 100 regulars !??? THat cnanot be positive EV, can it? That's insane.

By the way tonight I got outdrawn by a KQ on a J J T flop.

big deal you say? Happens all the time? Well, my hole cards were pocket tens. GRRRRRRRRRR.
 
Really Full tilt? REALLY?

In the money in the 28K. Then this happened.

Full Tilt Poker Game #12495175937: $28,000 Guarantee (93018379), Table 1 - 500/1000 Ante 125 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:10:35 ET - 2009/05/29
Seat 1: Indyvbdave (8,895)
Seat 5: Hero (29,767)
All ante 125
schwags33 posts the small blind of 500
Hero posts the big blind of 1,000
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Tc Td]
Indyvbdave raises to 8,770, and is all in
Hero calls 7,770
Indyvbdave shows [Ah As]
Hero shows [Tc Td]
*** FLOP *** [Kd 9h 2s]
*** TURN *** [Kd 9h 2s] [2h]
*** RIVER *** [Kd 9h 2s 2h] [8h]


Full Tilt Poker Game #12495292884: $28,000 Guarantee (93018379), Table 1 - 500/1000 Ante 125 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:19:22 ET - 2009/05/29
Seat 3: dobbsy69 (5,809)
Seat 5: Hero (22,587)
Seat 6: My Bluff Worked (12,961)
All ante 125
ebbnflow posts the small blind of 500
Drewch posts the big blind of 1,000
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ac Js]
dobbsy69 calls 1,000
Hero raises to 3,500
My Bluff Worked raises to 12,836, and is all in
Hero calls 9,336
My Bluff Worked shows [Ad Ah]
Hero shows [Ac Js]
*** FLOP *** [2d 5c As]
*** TURN *** [2d 5c As] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [2d 5c As Tc] [7h]



Full Tilt Poker Game #12495460780: $28,000 Guarantee (93018379), Table 51 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:32:16 ET - 2009/05/29
Seat 2: RicMic60 (58,164)
Seat 3: Hero (16,152)
All ante 150
Naks posts the small blind of 600
r0b1n40 posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [3d 3h]
RicMic60 raises to 2,400
Hero raises to 16,002, and is all in
RicMic60 calls 13,602
Hero shows [3d 3h]
RicMic60 shows [Ah As]
*** FLOP *** [9d 5h Ac]
*** TURN *** [9d 5h Ac] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [9d 5h Ac Jc] [5d]


This was in a span of 22 minutes!!!!!!!!!!
 
full tables, I was just making it readable. Full tilt has some 250K FTP tourney coming up.
 
^ wiki says
*

" * A very strong hand loses to an even stronger one. This type of beat occurs with some frequency in movies. In the films The Cincinnati Kid and Casino Royale, The Kid and Le Chiffre each lose with a full house to a straight flush."

"There is no consensus among poker players as to what exactly constitutes a bad beat and often players will disagree about whether a particular hand was a bad beat."


nonetheless, i don't care about that argument all too much.

Just wondering when it is that you guys start loosening up your calling range (i.e. what stack / blind ratio) and by how much.

Was just multi tabling $3.25 45 man sit n go turbo, came second twice being fairly tight (not really calling anything with less than AQ 99+), It worked well most of the time, sometimes it would lead me to become short stacked and lead me to claw back up with coinflips and blind steals.

It was surprising though how many times a re raise would cause these blokes to fold...

Came second twice, placed in the other two (like 6 - 7).

Would you say paying the extra 15 cents is worth it to not play in the turbo? (stars rake is 15 cents higher in non turbos), the turbos do seem like a fair bit of a crapshoot.

EDIT: I was also wondering about your bankroll management strategies, have you guys plateaued and taking out almost all profits into your bank account, or are you constantly increasing the size of your buy in (i.e. do you have plans to move on above and beyond $75 45 man sit n gos Fjones)

I started with $50 2 nights ago and am up to $120, that is in no small part due to luck, and I'm thinking of taking out the initial 50 and then going from there. 100 FPP down, 400 to go for my bonus too.
 
So running into Aces three times isn't getting unlucky?

It's unlucky to run into aces, but he didn't get his money in w/ the best hand, so not a bad beat IMO. His opponent didn't suck out on him on any street.

Starting to make a little comeback grinding the 1 + .20 SnGs... but it's so slow... and such a grind at these stakes. Don't want to move up till I break even.

I started with $50 2 nights ago and am up to $120, that is in no small part due to luck, and I'm thinking of taking out the initial 50 and then going from there. 100 FPP down, 400 to go for my bonus too.

Prepare for the doomswitch, LOL. But ya, I prefer the regular SnGs to the turbos. When you get short stacked it just becomes push/fold.

As far as stealing.. I start when blinds reach 50/100 and there's usually 4-5 players left. C-bet the flop, unless I flopped a monster then maybe check - let em take a stab at the pot, but the c-bet usually takes it down.
 
Last edited:
As far as stealing.. I start when blinds reach 50/100 and there's usually 4-5 players left. C-bet the flop, unless I flopped a monster then maybe check - let em take a stab at the pot, but the c-bet usually takes it down.

Cbets rarely work for me :!
 
So running into Aces three times isn't getting unlucky?

It is unlucky,definitely.

I guess I just define a bad beat as putting in your money with the best hand preflop or on the flop and getting drawn out on in a nasty way.

So like, top pair top kicker against a flush draw . . . guy hits his flush . . . . that's not a bad beat.

Pocket tens vs. AK before the flop, an ace hits on the turn . . . that's not a bad beat.

Both situations are unlucky though.

So I guess it's just a matter of what you consider to be the definition of a bad beat. Neither of us are really right or wrong in this situation.
 
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) (t1705)
MP (t1820)
Button (t1340)
SB (t7635)
BB (t1000)

Hero's M: 22.73

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A
spade.gif
, Q
diamond.gif

Hero bets t150, MP calls t150, 3 folds

Flop: (t375) A
heart.gif
, 4
club.gif
, 5
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP raises to t1670 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t575

LOL? Should I have called this. Odd that he just shoves. Am I ahead most of the time here? Villian is 25/6/7. Don't really have any reads other than that. Since it was early in the SnG I felt ok folding.
 
Also, the way it's played why would you lead 100? That seems like a really light bet there. What information do you get by betting 100?
 
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) (t1705)
MP (t1820)
Button (t1340)
SB (t7635)
BB (t1000)

Hero's M: 22.73

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A
spade.gif
, Q
diamond.gif

Hero bets t150, MP calls t150, 3 folds

Flop: (t375) A
heart.gif
, 4
club.gif
, 5
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP raises to t1670 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t575

LOL? Should I have called this. Odd that he just shoves. Am I ahead most of the time here? Villian is 25/6/7. Don't really have any reads other than that. Since it was early in the SnG I felt ok folding.


my man. You are taking a difficult game and making it ten times more difficult.

I am going to basically repeat what SHH...etc said.

Why are you betting 100 into a 375 pot? DO not do this. ever. EVER.

Second, if you are folding AQ on an A 4 5 rainbow flop, why are you playing ace queen in the first place?

If you are worried about being outkicked, then don't play the hand. Open fold every hand except AK or pocket pairs. I am not joking.

I play $75 games and I do not fold top pair in my own raised pot. EVER. There is just no reason to. You are good more often than you are not.
 
Just wondering when it is that you guys start loosening up your calling range (i.e. what stack / blind ratio) and by how much.

Was just multi tabling $3.25 45 man sit n go turbo, came second twice being fairly tight (not really calling anything with less than AQ 99+), It worked well most of the time, sometimes it would lead me to become short stacked and lead me to claw back up with coinflips and blind steals.

It was surprising though how many times a re raise would cause these blokes to fold...

Came second twice, placed in the other two (like 6 - 7).

Would you say paying the extra 15 cents is worth it to not play in the turbo? (stars rake is 15 cents higher in non turbos), the turbos do seem like a fair bit of a crapshoot.

EDIT: I was also wondering about your bankroll management strategies, have you guys plateaued and taking out almost all profits into your bank account, or are you constantly increasing the size of your buy in (i.e. do you have plans to move on above and beyond $75 45 man sit n gos Fjones)

I started with $50 2 nights ago and am up to $120, that is in no small part due to luck, and I'm thinking of taking out the initial 50 and then going from there. 100 FPP down, 400 to go for my bonus too.

loosening up the calling range shouldn't happen until pretty mate in the game. Calling = bad. betting and raising = good.

Why call other people's bets? What does that do?
"Hi, here, take my chips, I don't want them."


"came second twice being fairly tight (not really calling anything with less than AQ 99+), It worked well most of the time, sometimes it would lead me to become short stacked and lead me to claw back up with coinflips and blind steals."

MOST of the time it will leave you short stacked and clawing back with coinflips and stealing. That's the way short stacked fast paces SNGS work online.

"Would you say paying the extra 15 cents is worth it to not play in the turbo? (stars rake is 15 cents higher in non turbos), the turbos do seem like a fair bit of a crapshoot."

YES to not playing turbos, and AGREED about crapshoots.

"I started with $50 2 nights ago and am up to $120, that is in no small part due to luck, and I'm thinking of taking out the initial 50 and then going from there. 100 FPP down, 400 to go for my bonus too.[/QUOTE]"

This makes no sense. You are playing $3.50 games with 45 people, with only 35 buy-ins, and you want to take out almost half your bankroll? The amount you have in there now isn't enough.
You said to yourself, "in so small part because of luck." So, you take $50 out and then get unlucky, and have no roll left.

"EDIT: I was also wondering about your bankroll management strategies, have you guys plateaued and taking out almost all profits into your bank account, or are you constantly increasing the size of your buy in (i.e. do you have plans to move on above and beyond $75 45 man sit n gos Fjones)"

They do not have higher than $75. I wish they did.

A bankroll must be sufficient such that you never go broke.

So, if you are playing STTs, 30 buy-ins is a good bankroll....if you want to go broke.

If you are playing 45 mans SNGS, 50 buy-ins is a good bankroll.... If you want to go broke.

If you are playing large multi-table tournaments... well, that's nto even in the bankroll discussion, because there really isn't a long term for those.

For STTs, I would recommend 50 buy-ins MINIMUM. For 45 man sngs, I would say 100 at least, preferably more.
 
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