Post heroin depression

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

I've been using heroin (snorting, #3 powder) semi-regularly since mid-December '08.

My DOC is still cocaine (La Junk's type A) but the heroin has become a weekly habit....sometimes 3-5 times a week. The physical wd symptoms...mild diarrhea, mild muscle pain, chills, stomach irritation, fatigue...are manageable but the depression after a weekend run is much more intense than any coke depression I've experienced.

I've never used more than 4 points of 'down' (west coast Canadian slang) during a run, but that one to two day depression after a cocaine/heroin binge is just fucking brutal. Sometimes at work I feel like I am on the verge of bursting into tears. I am not generally a weepy person so this feeling is new to me. I don't crave heroin during this time but during the depressive phase the world is a dark, cold and oppressing place.

Thankfully, this phase never lasts more than 48 hours and clonazepam and gabapentin (prescribed) ensure a solid night's sleep.

I enjoy heroin...it complements the cocaine nicely...and I don't intend to go past the chipping stage, but I am wondering if this short-term deep depression is a typical aspect of mild heroin withdrawal...and if there are any remedies for this, other than not using of course.

I have a prescription for Wellbutrin but I don't use it regularly as it tends to wire me out. Cocaine and alcohol are the most effective remedies I've found so far but I am open to any suggestions for a more healthy solution.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Get off of cocaine, that's what's doing real damage to your nose and brain (if you keep redosing like most coke users do).

Far be it from me to say what's worse for you...but people who use cocaine often go into using heroin and are overpowered by it, and go back to using cocaine.

If you dosed heroin slowly enough (by itself) I think it is an easier thing to keep doing than coke.

I think repetitively doing cocaine (for long enough in large enough quantities) causes depression worse than any sort of level of heroin use.

I also want to edit the post here and point out that I've done many, many speed balls while I was using heroin, and heroin was always my #1 drug of choice. I noticed while I used both that it was harder to keep your tolerance for one or the other low when you're using both.

Eventually, you're going to prefer to do both, not just one or the other.

I preferred to not use cocaine because to have to re-dose every 30, 45 minutes is kind of tedious. Also, I never truly felt cocaine was all that great of a high without heroin. I have met many people who have a hole in their nose (no joke) from years of cocaine abuse, but I haven't met anyone who has a hole in their nose from heroin. Cocaine is more likely to be stepped on, and when you re-dose and re-dose and re-dose and re-dose cocaine, eventually the blood vessels in your nasal membrane are slowly being destroyed because the cocaine itself causes them to become rigid. If you're someone (like me) who can enjoy a few lines a night and not let it get the best of you, then you probably don't have to worry about it. But, in the group of people who were using coke and heroin regularly, I used the least cocaine, and I noticed everyone around me doing it a lot more, and a lot more frequently.

I think the reason why addictions are so hard to quit is that people enjoy readministering drugs so much they just don't want to stop having fun. If you do something 100 times in a night, for 100 nights in a row, you've done it 10,000 times. If you like to do 10 lines a night for 100 nights, that's still 1,000 times you've done it. If you're a heroin user, and you snort a line 3 or 4 times (maximum) a day, and do this for 100 days, you'll end up doing this 300 times.

This is how I think the addiction and dependency for things like alcohol, tobacco, and cocaine form really quickly, whereas it takes a while of doing things like heroin to develop that "I like it" feeling to get to a point where you're not going to stop doing it. Even though 3 days of continual heroin use is long enough to become habituated to heroin, you could have someone get addicted to something like crack within a matter of hours.

It all comes down to self control and individual responsibility, and what you feel comfortable doing with your life. I decided to quit using heroin a while ago because it didn't work out for me anymore.

I hope you get through the WD's okay and don't feel too bummed out. But hey, at least you still have some coke. If I'm coming down from heroin, some cocaine can really one's mood out. If you already have a huge coke tolerance, then it's less likely to make you feel better.

As an answer to your last question, yes, that kind of depression is normal. Within a week or so of abstaining, you should return to feeling ok. The only difference is, you might be left with the desire to do heroin in the future. That's about it.

 

[Mr Blonde]

I've no experience with addiction to heavier opioids, but my own experience has shown that opioid use can lead to heavy, heavy depression when quitting. The psychological symptoms are the worst for me, it feels like my brain has been sucked dry of dopamine.

 

[Tchort]

Cocaine use, especially repeated administration (particularly repeated IV administration of Cocaine) will exacerbate the mindfuck of any degree of opioid withdrawal. While the combination of Heroin and Cocaine is probably the most heavenly thing on earth, being (at present) a chipper with both will be short lived and miserable.

There are really only two ways to get over this depression/rut: quit using Heroin completely, or use more.

You're already experiencing withdrawal, not just the down cycle of compulsive behavior (as with Cocaine). You're at a crossroads every junk addict finds themselves at: the point where you realize you're dependant on opioids. I, like many others, panicked and went crawling back for more to make the bad feelings go away.

Do yourself a favor and cut out the junk for awhile, then stick to weekends only, or don't do it anymore.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Do yourself a favor and cut out the junk for awhile, then stick to weekends only, or don't do it anymore.

+1. Continuing to use cocaine isn't going to be great for your mental state, but cutting out the heroin WD will help.

 

[chrisinabox]

I've been using heroin (snorting, #3 powder) semi-regularly since mid-December '08.
My DOC is still cocaine (La Junk's type A) but the heroin has become a weekly habit....sometimes 3-5 times a week. The physical wd symptoms...mild diarrhea, mild muscle pain, chills, stomach irritation, fatigue...are manageable but the depression after a weekend run is much more intense than any coke depression I've experienced.

I've never used more than 4 points of 'down' (west coast Canadian slang) during a run, but that one to two day depression after a cocaine/heroin binge is just fucking brutal. Sometimes at work I feel like I am on the verge of bursting into tears. I am not generally a weepy person so this feeling is new to me. I don't crave heroin during this time but during the depressive phase the world is a dark, cold and oppressing place.

Thankfully, this phase never lasts more than 48 hours and clonazepam and gabapentin (prescribed) ensure a solid night's sleep.

I enjoy heroin...it complements the cocaine nicely...and I don't intend to go past the chipping stage, but I am wondering if this short-term deep depression is a typical aspect of mild heroin withdrawal...and if there are any remedies for this, other than not using of course.

I have a prescription for Wellbutrin but I don't use it regularly as it tends to wire me out. Cocaine and alcohol are the most effective remedies I've found so far but I am open to any suggestions for a more healthy solution.

Thanks for your input.

wait, so let me get this straight, you live in Vancouver and are getting #3 heroin that you are snorting?? that doesn't sound right for many reasons, (1) #3 heroin is usually the base form, which is for smoking and injecting, snorting the base is a huge waste. (2) i'm pretty sure that the normal type of heroin in Vancouver is southeast asian #4 heroin. i'm not saying its impossible to get afghan base heroin in Vancouver, its just not the norm at all. Its mostlly Europe that gets the #3 shit.

as to your question, depression is very normal when not using heroin after semi-regular usage. i can't think of anything to help the depression besides getting high on some drug, but thats not a good thing. best thing would be to slow down or stop the usage.


".....and i don't intend to go past the chipping stage"

those are famous last words man! most people start upping their usage when the depression gets worse in between usage so they don't have to feel bad and that escalates into dependence. so your best bet would be to quit or use much much less.

 

[dicemanstyle]

When im clucking I always well up at the most trivial of things on telly. Even watching like a nature program makes me cry!!!!! I think its a symptom of w/d's

 

[Captain.Heroin]

It's because when your brain has something so positive, good, and warm and beautiful feeling associated with it, and that thing goes away, you're not going to like the polar opposite of it.

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I will cut out the junk for a while and if/when I go back to using I will reduce my intake and increase the time between sessions.

Oh, and it's the #4 stuff (powder) I'm getting, not #3. I had my numbers mixed up.

Again, thanks for the helpful input.

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

Just a quick update:

Didn't do any junk last weekend (just cocaine) so today makes eight days since my last blast and the longest I've been junk-free since December '08.

I don't feel depressed but I sure missed that nice, warm heroin blanket.

I did, however, pick up three bags and am very much looking forward to next weekend.

 

[Carl Landrover]

Becareful man!

I get depressed after every binge.

After abusing for so long I feel like there's a sharp acute depression after a binge ends and the lower level depression that takes a while of clean time to shake. I remember the last time I felt I had rid of it. It was November 2008, but I started using again and here I am.

The depression, even at a low level is fucking brutal. The low level isn't bad, it's just long lasting and it's hard to battle it day after day.


Things do get better, it just takes time.

 

[802Fire]

I find that once i get through the first 2-3 days of w/d symptoms even though my body doesn't hurt as much I crave the opiates (OC) just as bad. The depression/ boredom you get the few days after you binge is rough, and after a week of that I end up running right back into another binge

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

I want to limit my H intake to bi-monthly binges. At that level I can even out the subsequent post-binge depression with a bit of coke and alcohol and be back to "normal" in 3-4 days tops.

I like the opiate buzz and don't want to fuck myself into a habit where I'm using just to keep the sickness/depression at bay. So far the physical WD has been relatively mild for me but the mental anguish after a binge has been pretty intense. It makes post coke binge depression a joke (and I have done a lot of cocaine).

With cocaine it's a kind of melancholy sadness combined with craving after about two or three clean days. With heroin the depression is all consuming and reaches to the core of my soul. I know it will fade after a few days but those few days are about the darkest moments I have experienced, and I am certainly no stranger to the blues and depressive moods.

I believe the post-binge blues has a positive aspect as it has taught me to treat opiates with the respect they deserve. Spring has arrived and I am getting back into biking and working out...and this I hope will fill the void left by my decreased junk intake. The longer, sunnier days help too...the dark, rainy winters here don't exactly help improve ones mood.

I'll still probably do a couple grams coke a week to keep on an even keel but that is another thread/story.

 

[SZodiac]

Becareful man!

I get depressed after every binge.

After abusing for so long I feel like there's a sharp acute depression after a binge ends and the lower level depression that takes a while of clean time to shake. I remember the last time I felt I had rid of it. It was November 2008, but I started using again and here I am.

The depression, even at a low level is fucking brutal. The low level isn't bad, it's just long lasting and it's hard to battle it day after day.


Things do get better, it just takes time.

That's the F-in truth. I can't ever get by that mourning period. The subo's don't seem to help that at all. Alot of time I guess.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

I don't think it took me a while to get hooked on heroin, it was love at first sight(snort). I didn't become an everyday user for a while but the love has stuck and developed into a very serious relationship eventually. Which had to be broken up of course shortly after becoming very serious unfortunately.

Depression is definitely a big part of heroin abuse, much more so if coke is involved I'd say since your brain is more drained that way.

Also, no one ever plans on getting off the chipping stage but almost everyone always does. And 3-5 times a week is not really chipping anymore. More like between chipping and a full on addiction.

Opiates have a different craving to them than other drugs. I might want drugs like X for fun nights or doing stuff. With opiates, heroin now, for me its like the craving is inside my head. I can always at any point think about it and remember the opiate feeling. Ever since I tried vicodin at 13 I always had the memory of an opiate feeling stuck in my head and I could always exactly recall it a any time and I always missed it. It's so good. My brain loves it a lot.

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

Also, no one ever plans on getting off the chipping stage but almost everyone always does. And 3-5 times a week is not really chipping anymore. More like between chipping and a full on addiction.

You may be right but the upside of this is the exception proves the rule.

Yeah 3-5 times a week is awfully close to addiction, hence my intention of limiting my H escapades to every two weeks.

 

[DiscoS]

You may be right but the upside of this is the exception proves the rule.

Best of luck to you in limiting it to once every two weeks.

But you see (and not to sound like a therapist or to judge/preach), talking about the exception proving the rule is the disease talking to ya. Mr. Brownstone's knockin and tellin ya to do it just one more time.

If someone handed you a gun with 10 chambers and 8 bullets loaded, what would it be worth for you to pull the trigger??

The real issue is not that the exception proves the rule but rather whether the odds of you being wrong (and the associated problems with addiction) are worth it??

Sorry if I sound negative... just my own experience and realization that it was CT or bust, hoping to help.

All the best!
-DISCO

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

Thanks for your concern.

It seems you've already made up your mind that I'm predestined to become a full-blown junk fiend and that any attempt on my part to control my opiate use is just delusional thinking...the "disease" talking. Do I detect a hint of NA in your post, DiscoS?

I'm not taking a blind gamble here, as you seem to suggest. I see it more as a calculated risk...I have a pretty good idea with what I'm dealing with here and contrary to popular opinion I believe it is possible to enjoy opiates without becoming physically addicted or overwhelmingly psychologically dependent on them.

I do enjoy a good challenge and the more people think I can't do it...the stronger my will to prove them wrong.

I'll keep you all posted on how things develop.

 

[Carl Landrover]

He's probably talking from experience.

I've never been to an AA or NA meeting and I'd say his post is pretty spot on.

Good luck trying to limit your use and all, but I'd say odds are against you. I'm sure there are people that can do heroin and limit their use without ever becoming addicted. I haven't met any personally though.

Just don't think that because it hasn't happened after a month or 2 months, that it can't happen.

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

If I had a choice between giving up either cocaine or heroin for the rest of my life I'd ditch the junk and stay with the cocaine, which is still my DOC.

The funny thing is...when I first started using cocaine I had pretty good idea that I'd become psychologically dependent on the stuff but I took the plunge anyway, and today I am definitely psychologically hooked.

With junk I'm pretty sure I can limit my use without becoming addicted. The same feeling I had with coke, but reversed. Like I said, it's a calculated risk but one I am willing at the moment to take.

Maybe the odds are against me *statistically*, but even you guys have to admit that most statistics have to be taken with a grain of salt.

I appreciate the heads up from you guys and I promise I will do my best to remain in control.