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Melatonin and Serotonin

Zzyzx

Zzyzx

Bluelight Crew
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Sep 8, 2008
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Thanks for reading.

I was always fascinated with Melatonin, I use it, and alot of people bring it up in Ecstasy Discussion so I tought i'd do a little research on it.

I found alot of information and I learned too so I decided to make a thread about it to awnser questions and expose a resume of my findings.

I'll also debate it's use with MDMA.

Altough I could have add alot of scientific information, i'll try to keep it short and simple so that everybody can understand.


Basics:

Melatonin is a natural hormone produced by your brain. It plays alot of roles but is best know for being part of the system that regulates the circadian cycle.

Production of Melatonin:

Melatonin production happens in the pineal gland. It is inhibited by light and permitted by darkness.

When the light dims or go out, Melatonin production begins in the brain. The blood level of Melatonin seems to peak half trough the night, then begin to fall.

Melatonin is manufactured from Serotonin. When Melatonin levels increase, Serotonin levels usually decrease, since more Serotonin is converted to Melatonin.

Since I mostly roll at night when Melatonin production is highest, that leaves me wondering if taking Melatonin right before the roll would slow the brain's natural process of transforming Serotonin into Melatonin and leave more precious Serotonin avaible for the roll. I'll make further study on that and perhaps experiment myself. Update to come.

Update 09-03-25

I asked some questions to endocrinologists from the Colorado State University Department of Biomedical Sciences who had been working on Melatonin.

None of them are aware of a negative feedback system with Melatonin secretion - so, treatment with Melatonin apparently does not change the pineal secretion and the transformation of Serotonin into Melatonin will happen even if one takes supplements.

I would have been excited of course to learn that the opposite was happening but, I still think Melatonin has potential as a harm reduction supplement.

End of update

Effects:

Circadian rhythm: Melatonin affects it in a way that is said to lower the body temperature. Perhaps it could be useful against MDMA induced hyperthermia. I'll be the guinea pig here and test it myself on my next roll. Update to come

The most known effect on the circadian system is to help go to sleep. In fact reduce the time to fall asleep and improve the quality of the sleep and this one I can personally vouch for. I have also taken Melatonin on the comedown and I found it was even easyer to fall alseep, specially if the pill is clean.

Antioxidant: Melatonin exerts a powerful antioxidant activity. MDMA is known to cause damage by oxidation so I guess any good antioxidant will be welcome for harm reduction.

Immune System: Melatonin is known to interract with the immune system but the details of those interactions are unclear. So far it seems that is has a positive immunological effect. MDMA is rumored to negatively affect the immune system so a little help cant hurt (possibly) But be careful, i'm not implying that it makes it safer to use Melatonin and roll while you're sick of affected by disease.


Conclusions:


I can see many benifits in using Melatonin in a pre-load/post-load regime. It seems like a great harm reduction tool, makes it a bit easyer to go to sleep on the comedown and might even benifit the Serotonin levels. I will personally experiment with it and post my findings.

Remember i'm not a doctor, but I know Melatonin can cause unwanted effects in some people, especially at high doses. So if anybody wants to experiment with it I strongly suggest you make sure its safe for you beforehand.

I was unable to find any case of bad interaction with MDMA or theoretical evidence that it could happen, however I have no autority to claim it could never happen to anyone.

Melatonin Cautions



Sources:
http://www.sleepdex.org/melatonin.htm
http://www.melatonin.com/
http://pages.prodigy.net/unohu/topics_sero.htm
http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:328567
Department of Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University
 
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Well written post, and interesting read.. even though i don't use MDMA anymore, i'll keep an eye on this thread and the outcome of your experiment out of personal interest.
 
The 5-htp suppliment I take has melatonin in it.

From my own experience taking that suppliment I can attest to having a dramatic change in my sleeping patterns. I would wake up very drowsy, and on average would sleep longer. I also would have very vivid dreams. I'm not sure if these effects are from the melatonin or from the other stuff in the suppliment (5-htp valerian root, vit b6) but it seems to go along with your research.
 
Care said:
The 5-htp suppliment I take has melatonin in it.

From my own experience taking that suppliment I can attest to having a dramatic change in my sleeping patterns. I would wake up very drowsy, and on average would sleep longer. I also would have very vivid dreams. I'm not sure if these effects are from the melatonin or from the other stuff in the suppliment (5-htp valerian root, vit b6) but it seems to go along with your research.
Click to expand...

5HTP, Melatonin and vitamin B6 can all cause vivid dreams, personally I like them hehe but this is off topic :)
 
hmm i save melatonin for the comedown
it would be really interesting to try on comeup
but mdma caps always make me yawn and sleepy during comeup :\
 
I use Melatonin 4-5 nights a week for regular sleep, generally Sunday-Thursday. Generally 2 100mg pills (though I SWEAR the last bottle I bought was 300mg)

At any rate, I used MDxx last weekend for the first time in 4 years. I've only used real MDxx 5 or 6 times.

I want to mention that I RARELY get sick. I got sick (head cold) two weeks ago. This was my first illness in over a year. I can personally attest to the (placebo?) effect that melatonin has on the immune system. I'm not a particularly healthy individual (mid 20s, 5'7, 20lbs overweight) and I am a tobacco smoker, but I do not seem to get sick at the rate of more "healthy" individuals.

I also took 5-HTP (100mg) for 4 days leading up to the roll, and 100mg pre-load.

I don't know what, if any, effect the Melotonin and/or 5-HTP had on my roll, as I was too busy watching my wife and making sure she was ok.

We did not experience depression in the following two days, but upon my wife's arrival back to work on Monday she was extremely depressed.
 
You're right. My apologies. These are 5mg. I think I got confused because the store sells 3mg and 5mg. So, I generally take 10mg 4-5 nights a week.
 
i took it once on e and since i didnt sleep i just felt like a complete fucking zombie til 9-10 the next day. good thing is that light from the sun kills off the melatonin when it hits the skin. you feel really tingly when it's happening.
 
I love using melatonin to help me sleep. Usually I take a dose from around 6-15mg with a sleeping pill as well. Damn Insomnia :p.

Anyway great post zz

FM
 
so this is what im getting Zzyzx, your saying that melatonin activates at night using serontonin to make it happen, so doesnt that mean it would be better to drop when tehre is light, so you have more serotonin? I usually only preload with 5htp and b6, if i start preloading with melatonin, what effects are suppose to happen. This thread is really interesting imo btw

Thanks! Zzyzx
 
axenaegis said:
so this is what im getting Zzyzx, your saying that melatonin activates at night using serontonin to make it happen, so doesnt that mean it would be better to drop when tehre is light, so you have more serotonin? I usually only preload with 5htp and b6, if i start preloading with melatonin, what effects are suppose to happen. This thread is really interesting imo btw

Thanks! Zzyzx
Click to expand...

Yeah thats pretty much it. The pineal gland activates at night and tranforms Serotonin into Melatonin.

I'm still not sure what the effects of preloading with Melatonin would be, I kinda raised the question here. Its sure gonna help for harm reduction as its a powerful antioxidant but as for the effects on the roll i'm not sure. I'm gonna test it at my next roll in about a week or so and report. My theory being that if there is already alot of melatonin in the bloodstream it might slow the process. I have sent an email to 2 PhD who wrote papers about Melatonin to ask their insight on this one.
 
Crazy, I just was reading about Melatonin and decided to search in ED and this thread popped up exactly matching what I was wondering.

Did you ever give this a go during a roll?
I'd love to know what happened.
 
As predicted by the research ive made I didnt really feel any difference during the roll. I still think it has potential to help regulate them body temperature but i've found that taurine did a good job at that too and it gives me more energy during a roll (search for my MDMA and Taurine thread)

I still use it after a roll to get to sleep quicker though
 
Zzyzx, suberb thread. I have a quandary on Melatonin & Serotonin: I occasionally take 1-3 mg an hour before bed, now say u were to awaken 4 hours after dosing & its already sunlight therefore exposing you to the natural morning rise in serotonin, would redosing be affected in this scenario? Would a small redose, i.e .5/ 1 mg be less/more effective?
 
I take melatonin on a regular basis. It improves the quality of my sleep. It used to make me groggy in the morning, but after a few months of regular use, I wake up feeling fine. Kava kava is another supplement to consider for inducing a deep sleep.
 
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