Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
ime things with long half lives you can detect effects from longer than things with short half lives if you pay close attention.
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[MEGA] JWH-018 Thread
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MattPsy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
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- 1,616
To that person who said 100mg was a pretty low toxic dose - REALLY?
You only need to use 2mg to get very, very stoned. I'd say a therapeutic index of 50 is pretty high, actually, no? Most drugs do not share that margin of safety. Good luck taking 50x the regular recreational dose of methamphetamine, for example. Or say, alcohol, GHB, cocaine, opioids, DOx's, et cetera.
(I am absolutely confused when some people here speak of taking >20mg or even 50mg doses - WTF!? I can only conclude they are wasting the material, most probably through pyrolysis.)
You only need to use 2mg to get very, very stoned. I'd say a therapeutic index of 50 is pretty high, actually, no? Most drugs do not share that margin of safety. Good luck taking 50x the regular recreational dose of methamphetamine, for example. Or say, alcohol, GHB, cocaine, opioids, DOx's, et cetera.
(I am absolutely confused when some people here speak of taking >20mg or even 50mg doses - WTF!? I can only conclude they are wasting the material, most probably through pyrolysis.)
Since I am unsure of being able to interpret the results of "Mouse's study":
- The only thing whicht turned out to be "negative" referring to the consumption of JWH-018 ist the thing with the (competitive) inhibition of Cytochrome 450 enzymes, isn't it?
- This would only mean that there might be some dangers in combining JWH-018 with other drugs (1. potentiation of the drug effects 2. other drug-drug-interactions)
- Regarding the toxicity / carcinogenity of JWH-018, there is no given evidence for a high risk
Please rectify or confirm.
- The only thing whicht turned out to be "negative" referring to the consumption of JWH-018 ist the thing with the (competitive) inhibition of Cytochrome 450 enzymes, isn't it?
- This would only mean that there might be some dangers in combining JWH-018 with other drugs (1. potentiation of the drug effects 2. other drug-drug-interactions)
- Regarding the toxicity / carcinogenity of JWH-018, there is no given evidence for a high risk
Please rectify or confirm.
One of my thoughts, which is somewhat outside the majority of the posts in this thread but also mentioned as a concern in more than 80% of the posts is the *quality* of any samples that currently are to be found via the internet. Moving for forward I'd tend to think that a professional analysis of the various samples to be found in a database would benefit education & safety as concerns this substance. Finding the inexpensive means to conduct the necessary tests is one
roadblock. pointers to labs able and willing for a reasonable fee to determine objective analysis
and report of results would be appreciated. the research & reporting of the basic facts of any
particular variation of the substance to further education of users at this point becomes a matter of helping to better overall human health. The concept that people can do whatever they want to do to themselves I really do not care needs to be re-examined.
roadblock. pointers to labs able and willing for a reasonable fee to determine objective analysis
and report of results would be appreciated. the research & reporting of the basic facts of any
particular variation of the substance to further education of users at this point becomes a matter of helping to better overall human health. The concept that people can do whatever they want to do to themselves I really do not care needs to be re-examined.
mad_scientist
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2006
- Messages
- 619
Yes, if the toxicity study reported by anonymouse99 can be trusted, then it appears that JWH-018 may well inhibit CYP2C9 at clinically relevant concentrations. This means that there is potential for drug interactions with drugs that are metabolised by CYP2C9.
The two most important drugs that this is likely to affect are phenytoin and warfarin, and if JWH-018 is indeed a CYP2C9 inhibitor then it would be expected to increase the effects of these drugs. With phenytoin this might increase unpleasant side effects, but would most likely not present any serious health concerns. Warfarin on the other hand has a very narrow therapeutic index and can lead to serious adverse effects including internal bleeding, stroke and death if the dose is not correctly titrated.
For this reason it would be strongly advised to avoid using JWH-018 if you are taking warfarin, as while these toxicity study results remain unconfirmed for now, there is a significant potential risk of a serious drug interaction.
As for carcinogenicity, the test results do not show any obvious signs that this will be a problem, although of course the risk has not been ruled out entirely, and it is quite possible that breakdown products from pyrolysis may be more toxic than the parent compound.
everhopeful
Bluelighter
Practical experience
To try to help lay a few theoretical ghosts to rest;
1) I've asked moderators why I can't post attachments either and so far no luck, but if I could I would attach a pic of 98.5% 018 and it is orange/amber tinted, clear enough to read a page of text through, plastic (at warm room temp) toffee like semi solid.
- It is this physical nature that stops it being ground or powdered. If you freeze it and leave it in a tough plastic bag you can shatter it which is about the best you can do with it as a sold.
- The HCL version (only easy to produce by primitive bubbling though 018 in solution) is the usual whitish powder but of course weaker.
- The solvent content was considered too high by the manufacturer who in the process of “cleaning up” produced a yellow powder, of a strength halfway between pure and HCL.
2) The acknowledged strongest brand on the market that I know the details of contains approx 9 mg of 018 per gram/total product. So the 3 gram bag contains a maximum 30 mg of 018.
- I could number on one hand the people who could smoke a whole 3 gram packet in one sitting and then get the top off a beer let alone do anything more complex. So those who speak of a 100 mg dose are either true giants amongst us mere mortals, or have not had high concentration (or any) 018.
- Yes I know that "strongest" is a very unscientific, vague and personal measure but so are some other socially accepted yardsticks such as "freezing cold" and "too drunk to drive" and while the reasons and pathways to get there might be slightly different, the end results are close enough to be the same.
- A rudimentary test was conducted 6 months or so ago and again 1 month ago when 50 people from all demographics, ages, sexes and racial groups in vivo all scored close to the same in simple response tests. While there were no trustworthy peer reviewers I'm afraid, one brand was tested against another (brand, texture, taste and smell obscured) and until Genie came along, SMOKE was far and away the "strongest", and while Genie doesn't hit as hard or for as long, it was considered by most to have he closest "feel" to MJ (yep another unquantifiable to the non user) which is why some blame it for bringing the attention the industry now bemoans.
- Other manufacturers went to great pains to obscure both the MJ "feel" and also attempt to confuse analysis by incorporating small amounts of complex organic compounds/extracts, something the Spice management didn't bother to do in the case of Genie etc.
- One such inclusion that I thought was obvious but nobody ever got was Oleamide. I would welcome the expert opinion on this one please. It is used in two mixes that I know of, and before anyone gets upset about it's use as a lubricant etc remember it's endogenous capacity as well as it's extensive, long history in the food additive industry, although maybe that industry is not such a good example.
Cheers
To try to help lay a few theoretical ghosts to rest;
1) I've asked moderators why I can't post attachments either and so far no luck, but if I could I would attach a pic of 98.5% 018 and it is orange/amber tinted, clear enough to read a page of text through, plastic (at warm room temp) toffee like semi solid.
- It is this physical nature that stops it being ground or powdered. If you freeze it and leave it in a tough plastic bag you can shatter it which is about the best you can do with it as a sold.
- The HCL version (only easy to produce by primitive bubbling though 018 in solution) is the usual whitish powder but of course weaker.
- The solvent content was considered too high by the manufacturer who in the process of “cleaning up” produced a yellow powder, of a strength halfway between pure and HCL.
2) The acknowledged strongest brand on the market that I know the details of contains approx 9 mg of 018 per gram/total product. So the 3 gram bag contains a maximum 30 mg of 018.
- I could number on one hand the people who could smoke a whole 3 gram packet in one sitting and then get the top off a beer let alone do anything more complex. So those who speak of a 100 mg dose are either true giants amongst us mere mortals, or have not had high concentration (or any) 018.
- Yes I know that "strongest" is a very unscientific, vague and personal measure but so are some other socially accepted yardsticks such as "freezing cold" and "too drunk to drive" and while the reasons and pathways to get there might be slightly different, the end results are close enough to be the same.
- A rudimentary test was conducted 6 months or so ago and again 1 month ago when 50 people from all demographics, ages, sexes and racial groups in vivo all scored close to the same in simple response tests. While there were no trustworthy peer reviewers I'm afraid, one brand was tested against another (brand, texture, taste and smell obscured) and until Genie came along, SMOKE was far and away the "strongest", and while Genie doesn't hit as hard or for as long, it was considered by most to have he closest "feel" to MJ (yep another unquantifiable to the non user) which is why some blame it for bringing the attention the industry now bemoans.
- Other manufacturers went to great pains to obscure both the MJ "feel" and also attempt to confuse analysis by incorporating small amounts of complex organic compounds/extracts, something the Spice management didn't bother to do in the case of Genie etc.
- One such inclusion that I thought was obvious but nobody ever got was Oleamide. I would welcome the expert opinion on this one please. It is used in two mixes that I know of, and before anyone gets upset about it's use as a lubricant etc remember it's endogenous capacity as well as it's extensive, long history in the food additive industry, although maybe that industry is not such a good example.
Cheers
Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
I just got a load of that genie, and the smoke, managed to get like 85-90 quid worth of that, smoke and diamond for fuck all cos of some screwup.
On top of some morphine and codeine, that genie is rediculously harsh, and after smoking a quarter between that, diamond and fire, my lungs have had to be slapped into submission HARD, felt like my airway was going to close up at first after a few bongs, until I inhaled a couple of squirts of xylometazoline, managed to widen my airways enough to reverse the post bong choking.
Oh well, next bong time....whatl it be...diamond, smoke, or genie...
Out of smoke and genie which is the most potent, is it known what cannabinoids are in either? if only they didn't put the artificial shit in there and make it harsh as hell.
On top of some morphine and codeine, that genie is rediculously harsh, and after smoking a quarter between that, diamond and fire, my lungs have had to be slapped into submission HARD, felt like my airway was going to close up at first after a few bongs, until I inhaled a couple of squirts of xylometazoline, managed to widen my airways enough to reverse the post bong choking.
Oh well, next bong time....whatl it be...diamond, smoke, or genie...
Out of smoke and genie which is the most potent, is it known what cannabinoids are in either? if only they didn't put the artificial shit in there and make it harsh as hell.
Just been following this thread as I have no MJ and have acquired some Spice Gold...
My chemistry knowledge is limited and I just want clarification: do the results of the analysis by mouse show the carcinogenic potential of JWH-018 to be extremely low?
My chemistry knowledge is limited and I just want clarification: do the results of the analysis by mouse show the carcinogenic potential of JWH-018 to be extremely low?
Sure you followed it?
Look four posts up and you'll find the answer: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=6700971&postcount=186
vinylmesh
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 38
Spice Gold does not contain JWH-018, neither does spice or spice diamond. Read the article!!!
It contains vanilla anologues or something, the true ingredient was never isolated.
Smoke, zohai sx and some other smoking blends contain JWH-018. SPICE DOES NOT! what was said in the article was that some new editions of spice (called spice tropical synergy or something) contained it, but the standard spice range did not.
This is why spice lasts way longer than the other blends, because it does not contain the same ingredient.
everhopeful
Bluelighter
links would contradict http://www.kefk.org/akteure/deutscher_hanf_verband
- The Austrian Times, the Austrian Health Dept, the Frankfurt Council and quotes from THCPharma in the German press would say it does! Only three mixes were tested, all Spice, no one elses.
http://www.austriantimes.at/index.php?id=10210
- The report commissioned by the Frankfurt Council has not been released in total as far as I know, but all involved (genuinely involved) say it was three type of Spice only that was tested and THCPharma proudly quoted as saying, "..in the analyzed samples of "Spice Gold," "Arctic synergy" and "Yucatan Fire" the scientists found the substance JWH-018 in different and strongly fluctuating concentration......"
- The Austrian Times, the Austrian Health Dept, the Frankfurt Council and quotes from THCPharma in the German press would say it does! Only three mixes were tested, all Spice, no one elses.
http://www.austriantimes.at/index.php?id=10210
- The report commissioned by the Frankfurt Council has not been released in total as far as I know, but all involved (genuinely involved) say it was three type of Spice only that was tested and THCPharma proudly quoted as saying, "..in the analyzed samples of "Spice Gold," "Arctic synergy" and "Yucatan Fire" the scientists found the substance JWH-018 in different and strongly fluctuating concentration......"
Hammilton
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2008
- Messages
- 3,435
Are you sure you know how to read? Gold was the only Spice (insert valuable object) that was tested- and it was positive for 018- so saying that they don't contain it is awfully disingenuous.
Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
Has anyone else smoked it (or any of the other JWH series, and noticed a strong diuretic effect? the spice variants seem very sedating to me, and I've noticed, I'l have to get up at night and take a huge leak several times, smoking spice products, which doesn't happen with herb.
There are two newer blends of the same ilk about now, genii and smoke, I think by the same company as is making/distributing spice/gold/diamond, they contain the same 'gen 3' logos on the packets at least, and I think, different actives, as it seems to last around 2 hours, opposed to spice diamond, which I find very sedating, lasting into the next day if I smoke it at night.
There are two newer blends of the same ilk about now, genii and smoke, I think by the same company as is making/distributing spice/gold/diamond, they contain the same 'gen 3' logos on the packets at least, and I think, different actives, as it seems to last around 2 hours, opposed to spice diamond, which I find very sedating, lasting into the next day if I smoke it at night.
the indole nitrogen can form a salt, however treating any indole with HCl is not a good idea.
my personal experience has been limited to placing less than 1mg on top of a herb smoking blend. I was impressed with the results. I also have to say that 100mg would IMO be a very large, almost too large, of a quantity. People who need that quantity need to take another look at moderation. less is more, etc. Of course I have no real idea what it is that I researched and am only accepting the vendors claims. That behavior is somewhat scary to me and so I find it would be nice to over time determine somehow if all the claims are true.
Worst experience of my life last night,I felt the fear of death's cold breath harder then I could even imagine.I felt like shooting myself in the head to stop the feeling that my blood in my body was boling from my toes all the way up to my head cooking,and felt like it was getting electrecuted and poked with thousands of pins and needles everywhere.The stuff I got was reddish brown looking and very sticky.It was supposedly a 35 mg sample but damn,It almost looked microscopic already.My friend threw in the whole chunk by accident and I blasted the whole 35 mg chunk in one hit,and my friend must have gotten only just a taste.We were already stoned and have high tolerances,he knows almost nothing about the substance.I told him to put a shaving in there so he throws in the whole fucking thing.His excuse was,Its already so tiny,how could I even divide this amount into doseages.Trust me,heas not my friend nemore and his face is very sore now.But two minutes after the hit felt nothing,then boom.Got this horrible fire and electric feeling in my toes,and then progressed through my body.Thought I was going to go into seizures with my blood cooking at 108.Cold water saved my life,reality was out the window,but taking my mind off of it was the only thing that helped besides the water.It was so hard to do that though,a couple minutes max,I thought it was over,but I had a horrible panic attack 2day,thinking I was going to die.Having trouble typing this,god my fucking heart is pounding.I wanted to put out a warning fellas,this stuff is insanely potent,and I think evil.Watch out guys,im never touching ne drug ever again.
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