Bupe Answer for how long Suboxone blocks opiates>>>

[sixpartseven]

EDIT: I actually read a tiny bit of the post. Did the OP ever consider that at such a large daily dose of bupe 40mg oxy just isn't enough to get high from, or maybe even feel at all???

That was my exact thought the minute I read the first 2 sentences.

Did the OP ever think that maybe your tolerance has been increased by the ridiculous amount of Suboxone you were taking? That's such an unnecessary amount, and considering Buprenorphine's potency, it is going to massively increase your tolerance.

I'll just throw this in here...ive been on suboxone for almost 3 years now, been taking from 4mg to 8mg. 7 weeks ago i had a horribble painful accident, nearly cut my fingers off...anyqays, right when i got in the ambulance they gave me a shot of fentanyl, didnt feel a god damn thing...i had taken 4mg that morning...so at the hospital they shot me up with loads of morphine and dilaudid, all night, tons I didnt feel shit. So they gave me a script of 5mg percoset (yea i know, it blew!) until surgery. i was sick for that whole week leading to surgery...taking percs as much as i could, they kinda just kept me from being wicked sick, buit i still was...then surgery came and when i woke up i was deftinitley opiated up....but after that i got more 5mg percs and those still didnt helpo, i even snorted some H and barely got an effect, this was 2 weeks without suboxone. Point is, the blocking can have affect for a loooooooong fuckin time! i got back on the suboxone cuz i was sick of the dopesick feeling lingering every day...dealt with the pain. fuckin suboxone. it DEFINITLEY works tho!!

When I read stories like this, I seriously wonder how bad they have been exaggerated. 4mg of Suboxone is NOT going to block the massive amounts of opiates you have listed and were supposedly given by the emergency crew. It would take A LOT more Suboxone to block all that, but with just 4mg, I would bet the fentanyl alone would have broken through for at least some period of time.

Some people are under the impression that Buprenorphine is invincible to other opiates. It's not. With bupe, you will still feel the effects of the other opiates, they just won't be as strong and won't last as long. The only time it fully blocks other opiates is when the dose starts getting really high, like above 8 or 10mg at the very least, and even then, all it takes is an increase in the dosage of the full agonist to counter the Buprenorphine.

And no, there is NO WAY IN HELL Suboxone blocked all those opiates for 2 weeks. That is the definition of impossible. It could never ever ever happen. If you didn't feel those opiates for two weeks, it's because the doses weren't enough for how high your tolerance was. It was NOT from the Suboxone.

Suboxone has a half life, and it ALWAYS abides by that half life, which is 36 hours. After 72 hours, there should be so little left that you will not even be able to notice it.

 

[Spaazkaz]

Dude.. I'm telling you.. as far as the experience goes, I know what I'm talking about.

There have been times where I ate 1 8mg Suboxone one morning and was able to feel dope the next morning.

This time was different because I ate soo much bupe at once. 2 and a half pills is 22mg!! I ate them on Monday at 2PM, ate a 40mg OC at 11:30 TODAY Thursday at 11:30AM and didn't feel one single thing. I can still FEEL the bupe too. When you've been on opiates for years, you can tell when it's still working because for me it gives me this numb feeling in my head.

My point is that I was more shocked at the fact that it's still SOO strong after over 72 hours that I can't feel a pill AT ALL... not one single bit.

I've cut way back on my dope/pills intake and previous to eating those 2 and a half Suboxone, I hadn't eaten any Suboxone for like 5 days so it's not like there was a build up effect going on.

Maybe drinking more water will clear it out faster.. this is ridiculous. I have a couple more 40's but I'm not eating them until I'm sure I'm not wasting them.

Also, what was incorrect in my original post?? I've researched the shit a ton. Soo what if I mixed up Naloxone and Naltroxone?? Same fucking thing.

My point of this thread was that as a safe rule of thumb.. wait at least 36 hours for every 8mg you took. Even if you ate them at the same time.. double the time. 16mg of bupe takes AT LEAST 72 hours.. I just experienced it.

Also, Subutex doesn't seem to last as long and doesn't block as much. I have no idea why either because it's the same thing just without Naloxone which only lasts a couple hours anyway.

like Tchort said, there are many factors involved. It might affect you one way while it affects others differently.

If you have a heavy habit (80MG or more of oxycodone for example per day).. you'll need AT LEAST a whole 8MG Suboxone to feel OK at first.

Personally, I only needed (an choose to continue to take) a couple milligrams (2 at most) at first with about an 80mg OC habit.


Thanks for the post dude, you are right there is a constant influx of misinformation regarding suboxone. Most doctors dont even have it right. I keep going back to the Bupe Mega Thread and learn something new everytime haha.

 

[thugpassion]

Can any one say what exactley is the difference between naloxone and naltrexone? I guessing they act similuar, but thats just a guess. I know they are both not as powerful as narcan. But whats the real breakdown of these antaganists?

 

[johanneschimpo]

Why do people argue with JC anymore? Clearly he is infallable and a religion with be started around him. Its only a matter of time.

If you want to prove me wrong, be my guest. If not, why try to be a smart ass?

If the fact that I know what I'm talking about angers you so much, pick up a fucking book. Don't hate on me because I have an education.





By the way, there already is a religion based on the life and travels of JC.

 

[johanneschimpo]

Can any one say what exactley is the difference between naloxone and naltrexone? I guessing they act similuar, but thats just a guess. I know they are both not as powerful as narcan. But whats the real breakdown of these antaganists?

Narcan is naloxone (its the brand name).
The major difference is that naloxone has a short half-life (I want to say something like an hour) and naltrexone has a long half-life as well as having an active metabolite (we're talking a half-life of several hours, I'm pretty sure the pills only need to be taken once a day), so it blocks opiate receptors much longer.

 

[sonic]

its not that it "blocks" it...

...

so other opiates cannot get threw the Bupe wall of receptors lol

Other opiates cannot get through? Sounds to me like they might be blocked. By binding to all of your opioid receptors, buprenorphine does BLOCK the opiate agonist effect of most all other opioids if you're taking a full dose that completely floods your receptors.

 

[thugpassion]

Narcan is naloxone (its the brand name).
The major difference is that naloxone has a short half-life (I want to say something like an hour) and naltrexone has a long half-life as well as having an active metabolite (we're talking a half-life of several hours, I'm pretty sure the pills only need to be taken once a day), so it blocks opiate receptors much longer.

Narcan is naloxone? the same stuff thats in suboxone is what the EMTs give you in a OD? Then Naltrexone is some hard shit, hugh. I remember years back my parents made me take a Naltrexone pill infront of them.............oh, man total DISphoria. and it took days to go back to baseline.

 

[sixpartseven]

f you have a heavy habit (80MG or more of oxycodone for example per day).. you'll need AT LEAST a whole 8MG Suboxone to feel OK at first.

I missed this earlier, but that's not true at all. I was doing almost 2 grams of good quality heroin a day when I got on Suboxone, and 4mg was plenty for me. That's a lot more than 80mg of Oxycodone.

 

[johanneschimpo]

^ LOL. I had quoted that same exact passage, and added my rebuttal, but didn't post it because I know its going to make that one dude cry if we point out how drastically wrong he is. A lot of us on BL know a lot about bupe and have been discussing it for years. I think its funny that this dude comes in any tries to give us his dissertation or whatever he thinks it is, and its way wrong. Its like walking up to a group of scientists that have been having a lively debate on quantum mechanics and saying "rocks are heavy," then subsequently thinking you've said something brilliant.

Anyway, you're (6/7) 100% right. That sounds like the ratio doctors like to use to the pharm companies can make money by prescribing idiots 32mg/day. I wouldn't say there is a set "this much bupe for this much X" ratio, but its way less than what Telex stated. It would vary from person to person (though I think thats largely mentally), but its probably 1/4-1/2 what he stated, tops. For every 80mg oxy, 2-4mg bupe maximum.

Like I said, I didn't bother to post it because then I saw another mistake, and another, and another, and realized it would be time consuming, and probably pointless, to keep fixing his mistakes. People have seen enough correct info on suboxone that they will probably disregard most of the things this dude says.




And yeah, thugpassion, narcan is naloxone.

 

[sonic]

There's also a ceiling effect with buprenorphine, which JC hinted at. You don't get much more high from taking a large dose vs. a small dose. 3mg/day is enough for me right now. I'd like to get down to 2 or 1.5mg.

 

[soundsystem00]

OP I don't agree that all your "facts" are true, and if you think everything on BL is wrong you must have not read very many posts. Do more research next time b4 you get flamed.

 

[nukka]

Part of the reason you are having to wait so longer after taking the sub is because your dosing is highly disproportionate... 40mg OC is sooooo much less potent than 16-20mg of suboxone. Its like exponentially weaker just so you know...

 

[StaffWriter]

Nevertheless, I experienced that if you're on 16mg of Bupe it DOES take 48-72 hours to feel something from another opiate. After having surgery, it was the third day I was off subs and IM Dilaudid (2 shots in the hospital) didn't TOUCH the pain. NOthing. All the nurses just slagged me off as a drug addict and were very rude. They said "If I took that much dilaudid, I'd be knocked out for days". Yeah, whatever. All they'd give me was toradol, and this was after waking up the day after surgery with the surgical wound hurting so bad, it felt like someone was holding a lit match to it. Nothing worked completely until late in the 3rd to 4th day. That can happen, folks. Try to stay off the subs as long as you can or you just may waste your pills and your money. And fuck those nurses! Once you're on the bupe, you're nothing but a scumbag drug addict. They tried to get my mom to throw away some percs and vikes I had post op because I was "going to die if I took too many since I have a problem with them". A mean nurse is a hell's angel.

 

[chrisinabox]

ya the OP has barely any idea of what he's talking about. and the worst part is that he thinks he is right. i also like how he isn't replying now.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

If you want to prove me wrong, be my guest. If not, why try to be a smart ass?

If the fact that I know what I'm talking about angers you so much, pick up a fucking book. Don't hate on me because I have an education.





By the way, there already is a religion based on the life and travels of JC.

I was actually being serious, just a little tongue in cheek. If you remember I commented in the mod thread stating I'd love to have you as a mod. I KNOW you're educated and KNOW you are the most consistently accurate and knowledgeable person around and I respect that greatly and so I don't get why people try calling you out. I'm sorry if it came off as sarcastic.

 

[djsim]

I'm going to post this for the third and last time on this thread.

A 40mg OC will NOT get you high if you're taking over 8mg of sub a day.

I don't really think it'll get you high if you're only taking 2mg a day. Even with a 3 day break inbetween, you're tolerance wouldn't have dropped enough for it to have much of an effect.

QFT. I don't care how much experience the OP has... actually, come to think of it his opiate experience (read tolerance) is all the more important when you consider he is seemingly mystified that 40mg of oxycodone won't get him high despite being on 20mg (8 * 2.5 = 20mg BTW) subutex daily... You could brush your teeth with fenatnyl gel and still not feel the opiates, that's how much receptor blackade is going on.

If whatever drug you take is way below the dose needed to overpower the receptor blockade, you won't get anything. If you take 30mg of codeine 20 days after stopping buperenorphine I'll bet you won't feel it either. Why because your tolerance is thru the fucking roof. So do we conclude to get high off codeine you need 1 day for every mg of bupe (20 days, 20mg bupe)? No. Your experience does not translate to a rule which dictates everything for everyone. Your experience is just that; yours. Not the be all and end all.

I appreciate you sharing your experiences, but it doesn't always play too well here when newbs show up claiming they have the real scoop on bupe that we've all been waiting for... Use the search engine and read up on the posts here at BL, and you'll learn a lot.

Do that first before you argue some more...

PS. TELEX: You say "I have a couple more 40's but I'm not eating them until I'm sure I'm not wasting them" in your post. Aren't you really just wasting your money with bupe maintenance? I mean, pick one or the other IMO. Bupe is prescribed because of the blockade effect. So don't be surprised you cant get high, its designed that way.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Suboxone Metabolism

So basically, don't waste your money if it hasn't been at least 36 hours since you took Suboxone. It's ridiculous how long that stuff lasts! WTF??

The half life means half of it is out of your system, not all of it. It takes an average of about 7 half lives for a drug to be "out" of your system.

The half life is determined on a few factors, one of them being roa. If you're sublingually dosing, then yes, it will take days to a week (closer to a week) to be able to enjoy other opiates fully again.

If you take a different opiate AFTER you take Suboxone, you WILL NOT go into withdrawls. It just blocks it.

Yeah, if you take opiates and THEN a suboxone (while still intoxicated from opiates), you will go into withdrawal. If you take dope after suboxone, it just doesn't do much for you.

-The naltroxone in the Sub's IS NOT what blocks other drugs!!!! It is the bupe itself bound soo tightly to the receptors that nothing else introduced into the system can knock them off.

Everyone and their mom knows that. Even wiki says so.

However, contrary to popular belief, since buprenorphine has such a high affinity (higher then naloxone), the naloxone does not affect the user even when injected.[citation needed] The naloxone does not precipitate withdrawal or block the effect of the buprenorphine when taken sublingually.

...

I have a TON of experience with opiates so I know what I'm talking about.

So you do know that 1 half life won't get all the buprenorphine out of your system...right?

Telex's rule of thumb for bupe: Wait AT LEAST 36 hours for each 8mg pill you take. Even if you take 2 of them at the same time, it's still going to be AT LEAST 72 hours before you'll feel anything.

If you're sublingually dosing 8mg (which is a lot) you're going to have to wait more than 36 hours. You'll have to wait about 252 hours (that's about 10 and a half days). One half life is not enough for a drug to be metabolized out of your system. 3 Days still won't get it all out of your system.

Like I said.. I took 2 and a half on Monday at 2PM and STILL had a 40MG OC COMPLETELY blocked at 11:30AM on THURSDAY!!!

If you're trying to get high, don't get on suboxone, just deal with the WD's.

If you're trying to get sober, take your suboxone.

If you want to get high and you're on suboxone, you'll have to wait at least several half lifes (three to four) for a reasonable amount of drug to be out of your system. (This is still about 5 to 6 days, not one and a half).

Do the math, it's not that hard. The one thing I don't understand here is that no one on this board is mentioning pharmacokinetics. Maybe if you all actually knew real information about the drugs you all are on, you won't have to post so many threads asking other people's help. You shouldn't have to have people tell you these sorts of things, you should have a reasonable grasp of this information before you start playing with drugs. Would you play with fire not knowing how to put it out?

so I dont know if the naltrexone does make the blocking affect longer,

The half life of naloxone is 1.5 hours.

The answer is no.

 

[djsim]

^ LOL. I had quoted that same exact passage, and added my rebuttal, but didn't post it because I know its going to make that one dude cry if we point out how drastically wrong he is. A lot of us on BL know a lot about bupe and have been discussing it for years. I think its funny that this dude comes in any tries to give us his dissertation or whatever he thinks it is, and its way wrong. Its like walking up to a group of scientists that have been having a lively debate on quantum mechanics and saying "rocks are heavy," then subsequently thinking you've said something brilliant. .

LMFAO
I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. But in OP's defence he meant all the best I'm sure... but yeh, it never helps to jump up in front of a group of ppl who know there shit and.. well, you said it better above

I was actually being serious, just a little tongue in cheek. If you remember I commented in the mod thread stating I'd love to have you as a mod. I KNOW you're educated and KNOW you are the most consistently accurate and knowledgeable person around and I respect that greatly and so I don't get why people try calling you out. I'm sorry if it came off as sarcastic.

Yeh JC, what's all that about? You and your moods...

 

[Tchort]

I blame Reckitt-Benckiser for the misinformation. It seems that leading up to DATA2000 and the release of Subutex/Suboxone, a huge pro-Bupe propaganda campaign hit the addiction-treatment, Congressional politics & global media grapevines. The following myths concerning Buprenorphine seem to all have entered public, medical and government discourse right before the beginning of the legalization of office-based Opiate Replacement Therapy (DATA2000) and after the Phase II trials and FDA approval of Subutex & Suboxone:

- Buprenorphine is a 'Miracle Cure' or 'Miracle Pill' for treating opioid addiction
- Suboxone can't be injected, as doing so will result in immediate precipitated withdrawal
- Taking other opioids after Bupe will cause withdrawal
- Bupe does not cause dependance like Methadone
- Bupe does not have withdrawals
[and/or]
- Bupe has very minor withdrawals compared to Methadone and Heroin

And my favorite of all

-Fatal overdose from Buprenorphine is almost nonexistant because of its ceiling dose.

Buprenorphine has been in clinical use (and solely under the ownership/patents of Reckitt-Benckiser; Buprenex & Temgesic) since the late 1980's, the facts about Bupe have been well known to those interested in finding out since then. In fact, starting with the European use of Bupe as a maintenance/detox drug, it became a drug of abuse; when used as a prescription painkiller, it was also used as a drug of abuse. In some areas, going back over 10 years, Temgesic had pushed out the local Heroin market, as Bupe was much cheaper than dope. The experiences in the UK and France specifically completely foretold what was to come (today Subutex is taking over the injectable/snortable opioid market and pushing Heroin out in many places; again, because Bupe is much cheaper than H in these areas- European Union subsidized Subutex tablets are being smuggled into East Europe and all over Asia for IV abuse; there is a whole new subset of primary Bupe IV addicts, something that was promised couldn't happen with Bupe [and ironically somethign that was promised would happen with Methadone when it was put on the market for addiction treatment] ).

Everything from abuse liability, withdrawal syndrome characteristics, capabilities of the formulations (i.e. that Naloxone in Suboxone would not cause precipitated withdrawal in IV Suboxone users), risks of a new primary addict population, the actual risks of death with Bupe alone and in combination with other recreational drugs, the real story of Bupe vs Methadone, etc etc etc

Disinformation for the sake of profit. Methadone is one of the cheapest pharmaceuticals around; Buprenorphine is a pretty expensive one. You figure it out.

I mean, do you think the US Congress would have passed DATA2000 and put Buprenorphine on CIII for the sake of rolling out this new addiction treatment act, if everything RB knew up front about Bupe were told rather than the propaganda 'Silver Bullet/Miracle Cure' bullshit they did spin? Seriously, would Bupe have been the staple medication in unveiling a huge step forward in treating opioid dependance (allowing private doctors to treat addicts in their office via prescriptions rather than through a clinic) if RB included in their report:

-The history of Bupe turning into an IV drug of choice for IDU's, and becoming another street drug/diverted pharmaceutical
-The history of Bupe becoming the primary drug in a now new subgroup of opioid addicts (those addicted to IV/insufflated Bupe)
-The history of Bupe replacing Heroin in areas where Heroin was above the average price
-The introduction of Buprenorphine Mills, doctors who write nothing but Bupe scripts all day for profit, never actually treating their patients, which in turn:
-Creates a new category of addict behavior; one that enters Bupe treatment, but due to the lax standards, only uses the Bupe when they don't have enough money for their DoC, or when it is more convenient to use Bupe over their DoC; in effect using Bupe to continue rather than treat addictive/destructive behavior
-The high risk of fatal respiratory depression in people taking Bupe and depressants, specifically Benzodiazepines, which are commonly used by recreational drug users as well as addicts in conjunction with their DoC
-The elevated health risks of patients injecting their Bupe tablets over injecting street drugs
-The risk of fatal respiratory depression/OD in people not tolerant or dependant on opioids, due to the high dosage in each tablet formulation of Bupe for addiction treatment (2mg and 8mg)
-The real story on the withdrawal syndrome of Bupe, which is comparable to that of Methadone, offering little advantage of its own and possibly further pain

Etc.

 

[ilovechronic]

I
-The naltroxone in the Sub's IS NOT what blocks other drugs!!!! It is the bupe itself bound soo tightly to the receptors that nothing else introduced into the system can knock them off.

-!!!

it is naloxone!

I'm going to post this for the third and last time on this thread.

A 40mg OC will NOT get you high if you're taking over 8mg of sub a day.

I don't really think it'll get you high if you're only taking 2mg a day. Even with a 3 day break inbetween, you're tolerance wouldn't have dropped enough for it to have much of an effect.

i am on sub 2mg per day and i took 40-50 mgs of hydrocodone and it got me high. It was taken about 12-16 hours after the bupe.