EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

[lost weekend]

you get what you pay for though....

trusted vendor and all that, they're pretty common and have usually been quite consistent.

I'm on UK stock accord atm, pretty damn good

Yeh got burned with galinka a few years ago
The pills were fatter and didn't have the slight rim round the outside
I've always wondered how venders get hold of 10mg uk diazepam as it's very very rarely prescribed its mostly 5mg for everything but could be wrong
I'll stick with Indian brands ,might be underdosed but at least contain active ingredient

 

[lost weekend]

My kratom consumption has also increased, and has also turned into a long term habit, and that combined with having to get up increasingly early in the morning, not having enough time to sip enough hot water to help my GI tract move things along, as I have to rush to get ready for work, and my first kratom dose is taken early, and that means my GI tract isn't getting the time it needs to do it's business, and meaning some days i cannot pass a shite at all, some days it's just like sheep or rabbit droppings. It's a good day when I can pass a decent sized shite these days. Sorry if this is tmi.

The problem is also made even worse because I only get 2 or 3 days off in a row about twice in every 5 weeks. During the days off, I have time to wait for my GI tract to be ready in its own good time, before my first kratom dose, and I also have time to make kratom tea and strain the powder out using cheesecloth, so that my GI tract gets a rest from all the insoluble fiber it's struggling to process. Too much Kratom powder starts getting the water removed from stools, so they become small, dry, and hard to pass.

Weirdly, I found a few weeks ago that experiecing a high stress / anxiety / adrenalin event - my toilet flush broke and some kind of seal came off it, and that meant incredibly high pressure water was jetting out in huge volumes and absolutely soaking me and the entire bathroom! After getting totally soaked, I realised in a couple of minutes that I would not be able to fix the flush or stop the water, and I had to turn the water off at the mains stop cock to stop the problem. Anyway, all that stress and adrenalin combined with having to take the day off work for getting a home emergency repaired, meant I had no trouble at all passing a massive stool that morning. All of a sudden the kratom didn't matter!

It's all so weird and complicated. I've never gone from being tired and groggy upon rising at 4.45 to being wide awake so quickly ever before!

Hopefully my GI tract will eventually adjust to the earlier wake up time, (in time it always has done previously) but with all the kratom powder consumpton, working long hours and eating late, and going to bed late, everything combined is making things very difficult for my GI tract to cope with.

Apparently i have a 'torturous sigmoid colon' which basically means it's extra long and loopy. Maybe this happened during my opiate phase as a way of coping with opiate induced constipation, Maybe I'll never know for sure. Although I guess I could ask specialists about that. It's probably coming in useful at times like this, possibly meaning my colon has the capacity to cope with things backing up, during the concerning times when sometimes there is nothing coming out for several days.

Maybe some of these issues could be addressed by diet intake
If I havnt taken kratom in over a week when I do take my first dose I'm constipated for a day or 2 but back to normal after that
Just out of curiosity do you keep your strained powder and freeze it cos its great fir emergencies

 

[placebonaut]

Yeh got burned with galinka a few years ago
The pills were fatter and didn't have the slight rim round the outside

I always check the DNM forums before buying them, but there are a few vendors who are consistent and well regarded

I've always wondered how venders get hold of 10mg uk diazepam as it's very very rarely prescribed its mostly 5mg for everything but could be wrong
I'll stick with Indian brands ,might be underdosed but at least contain active ingredient

quite a few small batches crop up which back in the day would kinda smell to me like someone robbed a pharmacy.

most all of the UK pharma I've looked at is sold in multiple markets, so I would have thought supply from outside the UK would be an option - dunno though.

 

[lost weekend]

I always check the DNM forums before buying them, but there are a few vendors who are consistent and well regarded

quite a few small batches crop up which back in the day would kinda smell to me like someone robbed a pharmacy.

most all of the UK pharma I've looked at is sold in multiple markets, so I would have thought supply from outside the UK would be an option - dunno though.

Yeh I've even accidentally been 10 pound short on order and its still been sent out before cut off delivery time ,all out the goodness of there /his heart
That's when you know they have your best intentions at heart

 

[lost weekend]

My kratom consumption has also increased, and has also turned into a long term habit, and that combined with having to get up increasingly early in the morning, not having enough time to sip enough hot water to help my GI tract move things along, as I have to rush to get ready for work, and my first kratom dose is taken early, and that means my GI tract isn't getting the time it needs to do it's business, and meaning some days i cannot pass a shite at all, some days it's just like sheep or rabbit droppings. It's a good day when I can pass a decent sized shite these days. Sorry if this is tmi.

The problem is also made even worse because I only get 2 or 3 days off in a row about twice in every 5 weeks. During the days off, I have time to wait for my GI tract to be ready in its own good time, before my first kratom dose, and I also have time to make kratom tea and strain the powder out using cheesecloth, so that my GI tract gets a rest from all the insoluble fiber it's struggling to process. Too much Kratom powder starts getting the water removed from stools, so they become small, dry, and hard to pass.

Weirdly, I found a few weeks ago that experiecing a high stress / anxiety / adrenalin event - my toilet flush broke and some kind of seal came off it, and that meant incredibly high pressure water was jetting out in huge volumes and absolutely soaking me and the entire bathroom! After getting totally soaked, I realised in a couple of minutes that I would not be able to fix the flush or stop the water, and I had to turn the water off at the mains stop cock to stop the problem. Anyway, all that stress and adrenalin combined with having to take the day off work for getting a home emergency repaired, meant I had no trouble at all passing a massive stool that morning. All of a sudden the kratom didn't matter!

It's all so weird and complicated. I've never gone from being tired and groggy upon rising at 4.45 to being wide awake so quickly ever before!

Hopefully my GI tract will eventually adjust to the earlier wake up time, (in time it always has done previously) but with all the kratom powder consumpton, working long hours and eating late, and going to bed late, everything combined is making things very difficult for my GI tract to cope with.

Apparently i have a 'torturous sigmoid colon' which basically means it's extra long and loopy. Maybe this happened during my opiate phase as a way of coping with opiate induced constipation, Maybe I'll never know for sure. Although I guess I could ask specialists about that. It's probably coming in useful at times like this, possibly meaning my colon has the capacity to cope with things backing up, during the concerning times when sometimes there is nothing coming out for several days.

I'd say your routine is commen with males ,females tend to get up earlier so nature has time to take its course ,as soon as I'm half way to work I'm either turning back home or looking for a petrol station lol

 

[Bleaney]

Maybe some of these issues could be addressed by diet intake
If I havnt taken kratom in over a week when I do take my first dose I'm constipated for a day or 2 but back to normal after that
Just out of curiosity do you keep your strained powder and freeze it cos its great fir emergencies

Yeah agreed, and I am finding some meals that seem to help. The trouble lately has often been not having the energy / time / or inclination to prepare these meals after working too long hours. I've decided to try to reduce my overtime hours by at least one hour, as that extra one hour was really totally wiping me out. We need to look after ourselves at least a little in this life, huh.

I'm up to 4 doses of >5g kratom per day. Which I know is a lot. But my GI tract was fine on that, and it was only when my vendor got some really weak batch in, and I decided to double the dose to compensate, for one or 2 nights, it's like that's when my colon got overwhelmed, as that meant >30g per day for those days and it now struggles even though I am not doing that double dose of powder on top any more, and back down to just over 20g.

It is a good idea to freeze the strained powder. I always re-use kratom leaf, when making teas, but hadn't thought of re-using the powder. Could be handy both in emergencies, and for budgeting reasons, and to help each batch last a little longer. As with everything else it seems there was recently a round of quite steep price rises across the board, following the vendor getting some new strains in, and updating their website.

It might be a bit messy and a bit of a faff,to freeze and re-use the powder, but I'd probably soon develop and improve a system and technique. As I did for the cheesecloth straining, which was ridiculously messy and wasteful at first, but I've kept on thinking of additional ways of improving the technique and method.

 

[lost weekend]

Yeah agreed, and I am finding some meals that seem to help. The trouble lately has often been not having the energy / time / or inclination to prepare these meals after working too long hours. I've decided to try to reduce my overtime hours by at least one hour, as that extra one hour was really totally wiping me out. We need to look after ourselves in this life, huh.

I'm up to 4 doses of >5g kratom per day. Which I know is a lot. But my GI tract was fine on that, and it was only when my vendor got some really weak batch in, and I decided to double the dose to compensate, for one or 2 nights, it's like that's when my colon got overwhelmed, as that meant >30g per day for those days and it now struggles even though I am not doing that double dose of powder on top any more, and back down to just over 20g.

It is a good idea to freeze the strained powder. I always re-use kratom leaf, but hadn't thought of re-using the powder. Could be handy both in emergencies, and for budgeting reasons, and to help each batch last a little longer. As with everything else it seems there was recently a round of quite steep price rises across the board, following the vendor getting some new strains in, and updating their website.

It might be a bit messy and a bit of a faff, but I'd probably soon develop and improve on my system and technique. As I did for the cheesecloth straining, which was ridiculously messy and wasteful at first, but I've kept on thinking of additional ways of improving the technique and method.

I toss and wash until I start getting low then make tea ,it's just time consuming etc
I never weigh my dose its just 2 teaspoons in morning and same after work ,weekends are double that
30 grams does seem a lot
Yeh the frozen powder at least helps with stomach issues

 

[Bleaney]

Yeh the frozen powder at least helps with stomach issues

Does it?

I'd read some people posting that they thought freezing kratom helped the with the absorption of the alkaloids, as the freezing and thawing was kind of ripping the plant's cells open, although they phrased it a bit better than that and more scientifically, that was the general gist.

It sounds like it's worth trying for a number of reasons.

 

[matt<3ketamine]

it's been 2+ months off pregab now?
I was really down there with my mood, like, bad.
My benzo use has tapered back to 1 x 10mg in the morning, and maybe n most likely, a top up of 5mg diaz or 2.5-5 nitraz IF i get 'that feeling' or need sleep badly. (Accord nitraz and 10mg diaz bensedins)
So making progress on the pregab to 'tapering down off benzos' hit me hard the past 2 days - my mind felt like a tennis ball of emotional balance? if that makes sense? like, can feel it 'fuckin up my mind' but, later? a fair bit after though and the thinking would get to the point i'd be worried for others, for no good reason to be so 'emotional' about.
Now, i dunno why it'd start now, does anyone know if pregab has a long PAWS kinda period? Maybe a too quick benzo taper? It has been 'rapid' i suppose, but i'd never had emotional pinball like that before.

 

[placebonaut]

it's been 2+ months off pregab now?
I was really down there with my mood, like, bad.
My benzo use has tapered back to 1 x 10mg in the morning, and maybe n most likely, a top up of 5mg diaz or 2.5-5 nitraz IF i get 'that feeling' or need sleep badly. (Accord nitraz and 10mg diaz bensedins)
So making progress on the pregab to 'tapering down off benzos' hit me hard the past 2 days - my mind felt like a tennis ball of emotional balance? if that makes sense? like, can feel it 'fuckin up my mind' but, later? a fair bit after though and the thinking would get to the point i'd be worried for others, for no good reason to be so 'emotional' about.
Now, i dunno why it'd start now, does anyone know if pregab has a long PAWS kinda period? Maybe a too quick benzo taper? It has been 'rapid' i suppose, but i'd never had emotional pinball like that before.

could be PAWS from pregab even after 2 months (rarer but you might be unlucky), but benzo withdrawal would be my guess, how fast have you been tapering?

thought you said you were taking something like 30mg a day not that long ago, if you've been taking it for any length of time you might want to think about a much more gradual taper

 

[Bleaney]

It seems Wedinos have changed their mind about an Alissa branded clonazepam sample that I sent them recently not containing any active ingredient.

I'll have to double check the reference numbers etc, when I get time to get my head on straight. But I'm pretty sure this is what has happened, and this is the first time I've experienced this happening!

Although it's annoying that they got it wrong initially, it's good that they seem to have re-tested or re-checked, and changed their minds, and this is potentially great news, and could save me the massive hassle of having to get one or 2 pills per strip of 25 tested, as the initial results I had from them was 1 active for clonazepam, and 1 with no active ingredient detected.

So that was a 50% failure rate on my first 2 tests. That was going to be a massive organisational ball ache to sort out!

I have 300 of them! 12 strips of 25!

They were a bargain, and were purchased on the basis of a very trusted recommendation.

I did manage to get round to sending another couple off for testing, and will await the results of those submissions. Perhaps when they spotted my very distinctive OCD style postage and packaging and saw the contents, they anticipated that I was going to be flooding them with loads of requests to test Alissas, due to them providing totally mixed results, that left me with absolutely no idea where I stand with these 300 pills. And maybe they then re-tested or re-checked the results for the second pill, and would you Adam and Eve it, but suddenly both pills are all good!? All just speculation of course.

If all is well, then 1 (or a maximum of 2) tests per box of 100 should be enough to reasonably suffice as an indication of what they actually contain.

 

[matt<3ketamine]

could be PAWS from pregab even after 2 months (rarer but you might be unlucky), but benzo withdrawal would be my guess, how fast have you been tapering?

thought you said you were taking something like 30mg a day not that long ago, if you've been taking it for any length of time you might want to think about a much more gradual taper

quite rapidly, if i'm being honest. Like had a really depressive episode for 2 days there, all that crazy silly thinking, but a benzo didn't help though, it made it worse, so i didn't want to 'keep going'. lasted 2 days there, then had a conversation that 're-arranged some my brain worms', so to speak, and it helped my brain to settle.
But this morning - woke up, was feeling a little nauseous, thought 'oh, that will be either my subs or the pregab PAWS now', so took my meds....didn't stop. I was dry wretching with my subs in my mouth, trying not to ruin that cuz thought 'this should help'. Got them into me, still felt nauseous, so drank some water and straight back up - okay, benzo time. 2 x 10mg sublingual UK Teva's diaz. STILL feel sick but it's lessened slightly.
So i phoned my clinic to talk about it, they asked about any other med's i'm taking: one - carbocisteine i take for my chest, turns out may be the reason behind my stomach pains and sickness there.
Not just going through Pregab PAWS now, but also, having to figure out what this is up with this other medication. I had some bad few days there so i must have been coming down too rapidly.
Earlier, pre-phonecall, had a mild panic attack that i did use 5mg diaz for, so it has been too rapid i think. I was used to 2 x 10mg though, so it's a lil annoying having to 'take more' atm for these moments. I tried doing some breathing exercises but wasn't quite enough and turned back on me, so '5mg down the hatch.

So yea, i think i need a more gradual, but accurate, taper schedule here. I need to find my 'okay' point, seems around 25mg-30mg diaz atm?
edit: more context

 

[nato23]

I had some of the 2mg Galenka about 4 months ago and they were spot on (hopefully the same that's still circulating, but trusted vendors and all that...), most recently got some UK Neuraxpharm and they were great

think the minty taste depends on brand a little? been a while since I had the galenka last but I think they were a bit minty from memory , but it's been months!

You need to try the original Rivotril by Martin Dow.
Pakistan, not Indian… not that it’s a massive difference but some Indian meds are just chalk.
Except these random alprazolam which are good

 

[nato23]

you get what you pay for though....

trusted vendor and all that, they're pretty common and have usually been quite consistent.

I'm on UK stock accord atm, pretty damn good

I’ve had some accords - payed something silly like £18. Double what Martin Dows are.
I couldn’t feel the difference in all honesty..
Galenika (Serbia)
Martin Dow (Pakistan)
Sedil 5mg (Pakistan) - very good but pricey for 5mgs

Just as good as them accords but tbh could be just very good clones. If they copy Bensiden strips good. They will be able to do it with accords, and could be actually using diazepam but 2mg not 10mg

 

[placebonaut]

It seems Wedinos have changed their mind about an Alissa branded clonazepam sample that I sent them recently not containing any active ingredient.

I'll have to double check the reference numbers etc, when I get time to get my head on straight. But I'm pretty sure this is what has happened, and this is the first time I've experienced this happening!

that's a bit strange! good result if true though.

ignoring the new test result, how are you finding them? are you getting the effect you'd expect?

quite rapidly, if i'm being honest. Like had a really depressive episode for 2 days there, all that crazy silly thinking, but a benzo didn't help though, it made it worse, so i didn't want to 'keep going'. lasted 2 days there, then had a conversation that 're-arranged some my brain worms', so to speak, and it helped my brain to settle.
But this morning - woke up, was feeling a little nauseous, thought 'oh, that will be either my subs or the pregab PAWS now', so took my meds....didn't stop. I was dry wretching with my subs in my mouth, trying not to ruin that cuz thought 'this should help'. Got them into me, still felt nauseous, so drank some water and straight back up - okay, benzo time. 2 x 10mg sublingual UK Teva's diaz. STILL feel sick but it's lessened slightly.
So i phoned my clinic to talk about it, they asked about any other med's i'm taking: one - carbocisteine i take for my chest, turns out may be the reason behind my stomach pains and sickness there.
Not just going through Pregab PAWS now, but also, having to figure out what this is up with this other medication. I had some bad few days there so i must have been coming down too rapidly.
Earlier, pre-phonecall, had a mild panic attack that i did use 5mg diaz for, so it has been too rapid i think. I was used to 2 x 10mg though, so it's a lil annoying having to 'take more' atm for these moments. I tried doing some breathing exercises but wasn't quite enough and turned back on me, so '5mg down the hatch.

So yea, i think i need a more gradual, but accurate, taper schedule here. I need to find my 'okay' point, seems around 25mg-30mg diaz atm?
edit: more context

Sucks about the other meds, what a pain, certainly merit in getting that sorted 1st and then concentrate on your taper

looked back through a couple of your posts and think you've been on 10mg a day+ for quite a while with peaks up to 30mg short term, not sure how long you've been at that level but think it's been a while so certainly would be looking to taper off them more gradually.

I'm far from an expert here so if you have access get some pro advice, but I guess the thing that puzzles me a bit here is that you feel you need to go to 25-30mg now, the pregab withdrawal might be taking longer than you think especially if you have PAWS from it, but you've been managing on 10mg + 5mg when needed, I'd be reluctant to increase so much to 25-30mg from your current usage as you're just going to make the benzo situation tougher. The big question is what's the lowest maintenance dose you can deal with, I'd be guessing it's more like 15-20mg.

personally I'd get stability post pregab cease 1st then look to taper the benzos over a longer period than you have been doing, think it's better to have a steady 15-20mg a day rather than topping up with a +5mg, that +5mg is causing your system to yoyo around given halflife, better to avoid doing that I think and just stick to a single dosage. If it were me I'd see if I could manage on 15mg for a couple of weeks, if I kept getting the same issues then maybe increase it to 17.5 or 20, then once symptoms stop give it a little while before starting a gradual taper.

I’ve had some accords - payed something silly like £18. Double what Martin Dows are.
I couldn’t feel the difference in all honesty..

the martin dows are very weak compared to the accords, I'd guess ~75% the dose, they're fine but not as good at all, not sure where you're buying from but I'm not paying double the price, if I were I'd just stick with the martin dows and take more of them

 

[nato23]

I buy them from a popular bot shop on an app.
I bought a strip of accords from a reputable vendors- they tasted like diazepam. The ones I got was definitely not - 75%.
That would mean the Martin Dows are ~2.5mg?
I would never pay over £1 a pill - Uk pharma or not.
I just think prices for meds is rising slowly.
While the price of the devils dandruff is getting cheaper!!

 

[placebonaut]

I buy them from a popular bot shop on an app.
I bought a strip of accords from a reputable vendors- they tasted like diazepam. The ones I got was definitely not - 75%.

I rate genuine accords highly, they're 100% strength in my book, in fact all the UK pharma brands I've tried are pretty consistent in terms of strength

That would mean the Martin Dows are ~2.5mg?

I was saying the MDs are ~75% the strength, so effectively 7.5mg each

I would never pay over £x a pill - Uk pharma or not.
I just think prices for meds is rising slowly.

no pricing discussion on BL....but you can certainly get genuine UK pharma at that price if you look around (though it's a hard), and they're readily available at a slighter higher price.

it's more a question of value I guess.

the market is flooded with with MDs, they're cheap as hell

While the price of the devils dandruff is getting cheaper!!

well, it's gone through the roof this year and dropped back down but still too expensive, quality has been up and down too

 

[matt<3ketamine]

Sucks about the other meds, what a pain, certainly merit in getting that sorted 1st and then concentrate on your taper

looked back through a couple of your posts and think you've been on 10mg a day+ for quite a while with peaks up to 30mg short term, not sure how long you've been at that level but think it's been a while so certainly would be looking to taper off them more gradually.

I'm far from an expert here so if you have access get some pro advice, but I guess the thing that puzzles me a bit here is that you feel you need to go to 25-30mg now, the pregab withdrawal might be taking longer than you think especially if you have PAWS from it, but you've been managing on 10mg + 5mg when needed, I'd be reluctant to increase so much to 25-30mg from your current usage as you're just going to make the benzo situation tougher. The big question is what's the lowest maintenance dose you can deal with, I'd be guessing it's more like 15-20mg.

personally I'd get stability post pregab cease 1st then look to taper the benzos over a longer period than you have been doing, think it's better to have a steady 15-20mg a day rather than topping up with a +5mg, that +5mg is causing your system to yoyo around given halflife, better to avoid doing that I think and just stick to a single dosage. If it were me I'd see if I could manage on 15mg for a couple of weeks, if I kept getting the same issues then maybe increase it to 17.5 or 20, then once symptoms stop give it a little while before starting a gradual taper.

Yea man, i'm trying to figure out my lowest maintenance dose for diaz. Today it's been 20mg, 10mg in the morning, a 5mg in the afternoon and 5mg before bed. I haven't been bad anxiety, more depression, or any kinda down feeling like i was there, since. One thing my keyworker said about was another medication i'm on possibly making me experience the nausea (carbocisteine) and stomach being iffy.
Thanks for the advice man, keeping a wee journal, so will try post any thing i think may help others here n how, if i see how it goes in a few months and get better instead of worse. I think your right with not going up to 30mg, will just make things harder for myself...but tell that to my GABA obsessed brain haha

 

[nato23]

I rate genuine accords highly, they're 100% strength in my book, in fact all the UK pharma brands I've tried are pretty consistent in terms of strength

Yeah all Uk pharma will be what they say they are because of the rigorous quality control that’s not really a thing with Middle Eastern and Indias small pharma companies. I’d love to know how the hell they get a hold of proper raw benzos
Galenikas Bensidens/rivotril/ksalols have been around for years and I don’t know how, I just wonder how a legit pharmaceutical company from a country, Serbia have consistently been about on the black market. Maybe Albanians? Since the countries are so close… just a hunch.

Another hunch is that i think some accords might be clones. They still are diazepam tablets but not what strength they say.
If they can make fakes strips of Bensidens and MDs look very similar. The old accord fakes looked blatantly fake. But they are better at copying the strips and I if they are putting a small amount of diazepam in them so they test positive. Because I can’t see how there is a steady supply of them

no pricing discussion on BL....but you can certainly get genuine UK pharma at that price if you look around (though it's a hard), and they're readily available at a slighter higher price.

it's more a question of value I guess.

the market is flooded with with MDs, they're cheap as hell

I’ve looked at all the vendors that I know and prices are all pretty high - for me anyway.
But like I said when I tried a strip of the accords they were diazepam, I can tell by taste, but well pressed tablets, when you suck on them they have that small disc… this sounds weird but if anyone does the same knows. The bromazolam fakes just turn to mush and taste like cardboard.

I got a few strips of the fake Accord were bromaz but they must have been triple dosed because they fucked me up - but bromazolam is just a crap benzo imo.

was saying the MDs are ~75% the strength, so effectively 7.5mg each

probably something like that. I was switching between Bensidens and Martin Dows because i found the strength go up and down between batches. They are both faked - very good fakes too. I’ve have been taking Bensidens years and some fakes i only realised when i tasted them.
Diazepam has a pleasant taste imo so has etizolam and clonazepam

 

[nato23]

well, it's gone through the roof this year and dropped back down but still too expensive, quality has been up and down too

Yeah, it’s went up for a few months but an ounce is half the price than it was 6-7 years ago when I was shifting it. I always had access to excellent quality.
On the street prices are shockingly high compared to vendor bots