Opioids Vote for your favorite Opiate (in terms of warmth, Euphoria, bliss, etc.)

[4DQSAR]

Sometimes I wonder anyone who doesn't answer heroin hasn't done very good heroin

Define 'very good'.

Since diamorphine hydrochloride is a medicine in the UK and is also occassionally used for HAT, dry-amps appeared on the street from time to time.

So it's PURE PHARMACUTIAL HEROIN

It's ridiculous to ask why someone doesn't agree with your opinion, when who knows what subjective psychological effects a specific opioid might produce in others.

Tell me, have you tried Palfium? The only opioid I know of that produces a flash when consumed orally? Or put one in a barrel and whacked it up? It's inredibly dangerous stuff and no longer in use but some users who were old enough to have started on SE Asian white heroin in the early 1970s went apeshit bonkers for Palfium and/or it's evil twin, Diconal. Hard to find people to ask about them because the users who loved them all ODed.

But those users KNEW how incredibly damaging those two pills were and yet couldn't even swap back to H and not because the pills were dozens of times more potent. Just couldn't live without the flash those pills produced.

I remember it being a minor disaster in the UK with the whole front page of Drink and Drug News having the banner headline 'A Limit to Intervention?' because for some users, they KNEW it would kill them and consciously descided the high was worth it.

 

[notsmokeymcpot420]

"Very good" IMO is Diamorphine HCL with only INACTIVE CUTS. Got up to like 85% before fent came in and ruined that world.

@4DQSAR my question for you would be could they not switch back from pallium/diconal because they genuinely preferred the high to H --- OR because the potency was so high switching back to H was no longer feasible. (I.E fentanyl situation, worse high, users still can't switch back)

FTR --- it is dumb to say someones opinion is wrong; especially when youd have to tell me you have tried ALL the opiates/oids and id have some follow up questions... @Ozymandeus have you ever experienced oxymorphone without a time release system -- 1 gram of oxymorphone powder or one gram of pure heroin. Idk

 

[Ozymandeus]

@Ozymandeus have you ever experienced oxymorphone without a time release system --

Uhh if you mean sucking off the coating and then snorting it "without time release", then yeah.

 

[notsmokeymcpot420]

If it was IR than yea id say that is about close enough. If was one of those horrible octagons or w/e "Opana" than not so much. I never seen an IR in the wild tbh but i live in the styx

The oral bioavailability is pretty horrible isn't it?? I should have specified IV perhaps --- if you do not IV than I could see heroin remaining superior....

See opinions and variables.

 

[Ozymandeus]

I remember enjoying brand name Opana. I think its those generic green or yellow ones labeled OP that sucked. But my memory faded idk.

Used to get them from a guy who got them directly from a cancer patient. Was the bomb.

 

[notsmokeymcpot420]

I mean I enjoyed them but they were a real bitch to deal with and you couldnt completely get around the timerx to IV em --- snort and eat a high fat meal is your best bet.

The full oxymorphone experience it is not though

 

[4DQSAR]

@notsmokeymcpot42088 - I attempted to point out that neither resulted in the same one-way potency issue fentanyl (and indeed all of those ultra--high affinity ligands that have that same effect) is subject to.

With Palfium the stuff crossed the BBB even faster than heroin which as you know is actually a pro-drug. It's 6-monoacetyl morphine that is the active. Diacetylation just means it's more lipopholic so will tend to concentrate in fatty tissue such as the brain. So while acetylation 'optimizes' morphine, Janssen set out to produce a synthetic that was even faster acting although the 10mg ampoules were mysteriously removed from clinical very quickly use because dextromoramide also produces hypotension and eventually syncope. I should add while only 5 and 10mg tablets were produced, the stuff only has about 20% oral bioavailability so OF COURSE it fed the needle as one peach Palfium whacked up was more powerful than a £10 bag.

Dicoconal is even worse. It contains just 10mg of dipipanone which is no more potent than methadone. It's because each of those pink pills also contain cyclizine. As far as I know nobody has studied the 'why' but cyclizine interacts with every 3,3-diphenylheptanone-class opioid (methadone, dipipanone, phenadoxone and so on) to produce an ungodly flash IV users nicknamed 'skull rattlers'. Now 10mg is not much so users would sit there and whack them up every 20 minutes or so because dipipanone has a half-life of six hours and of course users developed tolerance.

When Diconal required a special Home Office licence allowing clinicians to prescribe it, [P] Valoid™ travel sickness tablets containing cyclizine suddenly ended up on the street as users figured out that crushing up Pyseptone (5mg methadone) tablets with Valoid tablets sort of had a similar effect.

The 'payoff' if that's the term is that if IVed alone, cyclizine... well, it certainly does SOMETHING so when the Physeptone ran out users would whack up Valoid and have seizures. I think at high doses cyclazine may act as a muscarinic receptor ligand because even Peter McDermott advised staying a long way away from users on a Valoid mission. They mistake you for a Martian and do crazy things like trying to pick your pocket while you are staring AT your pocket watching them do it.

I suppose the only more recent thing some people here MAY have come across is desomorphine. Krokodil is the impure form but it was used as a medicine and German production ended only when the last patient who for whatever reasons couldn't tolerate other opioids finally popped her clogs. Imagine that - somewhere in Germany a chemist was making (pure) desomorphine likely at bench-scale just for her.

When a few months ago I said that legal controls has only ever lead to sequentially worse opioids? Well there are some compounds related to desomorphine which are a LOT more potent. Some troll demanded a share this horror-show on the basis he wanted society to collapse as quickly as possible. The chemists among us will know what things I refer to but imagine something as potent as fentanyl but as euphoric as desomorphine. Can you imagine what harm THAT would cause?

*The pKa of 6-MAC hasn't been tested using the classic water/n-octanol partition method, only calulcated so I suggest it might be a little lower.

 

[marsnd]

My 1st love was vicoden. I'm a chef, and accidentally spilled 10 gallons of boiling veal stock on my arm. 2nd degree burns, they weren't sure if there would be permanent scaring. I ended up having to take vicoden for about 6 weeks. While I was enjoying these, I had a friend who "Knew" a pharmacy tech, and that tech could get me 10mg vicoden, and for 2 bucks a piece only. It was that very moment I didn't have to watch the clock for my next dose anymore, it was now whenever I wanted. After a while it took it's course, amd it was a new guy, who had an unlimited amount pills, until one day all he didn't, and all he had were these things called "Oxycontin" 40mg
He promised me they would be just as good, if not better, and these were 8 bucks a piece, at the time.
When i think back it's crazy what things I had access to, and how much has changed in value. I won a lottery (250k) middle of my addiction, so giving an addict 250k is a dangerous game. I am very lucky to be alive. Just as an FYI...
I think those oxy were going for over a dollar a mg at the end of my opiate days. So a pill I was getting for 8 bucks a piece was now worth 40-60 for a single dose, and they still struggled to keep up with the streets.

 

[tryptakid]

Hydromorphone - while vicodin is great and turns into hydromorphone. Nothing to me comes closer to bliss than hydromorphone.

When I got sick with CoVID I got prescribed Tussionex - would love to sip that shit with a straw. Mix mex up a ketamine and hydromorphone cocktail please kthx

 

[agoraphobe]

The more euphoria the bigger the bill that comes after. Ying yang theory is real.

 

[4DQSAR]

The more euphoria the bigger the bill that comes after. Ying yang theory is real.

True - we simply could not help a single opioid user who locked on to Palfium or Diconal.

It was the UK equivelent of that krokodil «крокодил» disaster in Russia. We we lucky in that as prescription drugs, warning clinicians meant it didn't go on forever and could be stopped. Russia just made all codeine-containing medications [POM}s but it's Russia, so without a doubt someone is importing codeine, dihydrocodeine or even finished desomorphine. Once people know something is 'the last word' in opioid euhoria, they seek it out.

I've ALWAYS maintained one VERY effective form of hybrid warfare against Russia would be to produce and import those much more potent analogues of desomorphine. At least three are as potent as fentanyl so just imagine what that HUGE boarder Russia has to somehow control really means. Tefrinka is responsible for Europe's methamphetamine problem and got away with it for almost a DECADE so to me it looks very much like hybrid warfare. They were only stopped when European nations presented overwhelming evidence that Russia did anything at all...

 

[isthisreal?]

Out of the choices I’ve only use the following:

Heroin
DHC
Bupe (Subutex)
Codeine
Opium
Morphine
Tamadol

I voted for heroin. When I say heroin I mean the old school, pre bastardised opiates, ‘readybrek glow’ heroin. Real heroin is the dog bollocks if opiates imo.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Good post. I watched the movie Reindeerspotting Escape From Santaland (and even bought the sequel Lost Boys recently - GREAT movies showing the lives of young junkies unfiltered) and they in a rural Finnish town back in the 2010s did IV Buprenorphine because it’s the only opiate they had available, it can cause a similar feeling if you never did anything else but yea the protagonist at the end discovers Heroin in Marocco (he later moved to Cambodia and switched completely to Yaba = Crystal Meth before he was murdered, the incompetent police over there say it’s a “suicide” but he had defensive marks and huge debts he desperately tried to pay off just before he died).

Damn, I had no idea there was a sequel!!
Do you know if the Sequel is in Finnish or English? I had Reindeerspotting with English subtitles, so that's the only way I was able to really get an idea of what was being said & spoken about. It's crazy cause in that movie they're shooting up like entire 8mg Subutex pills. Yet they still nod & look high as hell. But from my experience, the more buprenorphine you take, the less you feel it. Maybe they were doped up on benzos too & that's why, I dunno.

I remember his death too. And people posted photos of it all over gore sites & shit at the time. I felt bad for the dude, he just wanted to get the fuck out of Finland & live his life the way he wanted. I'll have to see if I can find the sequel.

Anyway, Tramadol I took quite often too but I guess I either already had a little bit of tolerance or I just didn’t react too well to it. I loved all opiates I ever did except Kratom but Tramadol is a close second worst one. Idk it always gave me quite little euphoria and warmth and that was during a time when I also did Dihydrocodein and that still gave me strong effects.

Tramadol is a strange one.
In my 20's, I use to get pretty good euphoria from it. Stimulated. Even nodded out & got all itchy just like I would on heroin.
I was able to keep it working like this for close to a decade.
But then I got into heroin & eventually landed on buprenorphine.

Recently I got back on tramadol & I'm finding that it kind of sucks now too. I don't know why. Maybe it was the massive tolerance buprenorphine created? I have no idea. I was put on a pretty low dose too. And even when I had no tolerance at all, I still needed like 300-400mg of trams in order to "feel it". And then it would usually last me the rest of the day until I went to bed. Some times I'd start having a little WD at the end of the day, especially if I took it too early in the day.

I still own a blanket that was on my bed all through out my 20's. And trams would make me nod so hard while listening to music, that I'd forget I had a cigarette in my hand & burn a hole in this blanket. lol It probably has 100 different holes in it.

So clearly, at least for me, tramadol is capable of producing really great effects on par with any other opioid. But I think there's so much variation, that you never quite know how tramadol will work for you.

But now it just feels like a weak SNRI honestly
I'm pretty bummed. I don't get any opioid effects from it at all. Even if I up the dose. No nodding, no itching, no sedation, maybe a little stimulated feeling & then it wears off after about 2-4hrs.

So that's been kind of disappointing. Maybe my liver enzymes changed since I was in my 20's, I have no idea. lol Maybe I metabolized it better in my 20's. But I really had high hopes that it would be helpful considering it's still technically a full agonist & buprenorphine is just a partial.

Maybe it'll work in better with time, I dunno. But some of my most fondest "opioid memories" were on trams. And it's weird to me that they use to work so well back then but feel like almost nothing now.

Also you might have Synesthesia. Which is really cool. I wouldn’t be able to associate it with colors like you. This sounds very very much like Synesthesia, do you know if you have that by any chance?

I've heard of this & it's possible.
I don't actually see colors or anything though, I just "see" them in my head when I think about opioids & their different experiences they give.
Same with music, when I listen to music, I'll "think" about colors.

One time in middle school, in art class, I told my art teacher that music makes me think of colors. And he put on a song & asked me what colors it made me think of. And I said "it makes me think of black & yellow". And he was like "that's strange, cause the song is "Flight of The Bumble Bee" by Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov. So I thought that was pretty cool. lol

But I can't actually see or hear colors or whatever. Like I think people with synesthesia actually see colors or "hear" them or whatever, where as things just sort of make me "think" of colors, rather than see them. But I could be wrong, maybe there's multiple types of synesthesia. lol

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I have a question for anybody who would know...

I've learned that many of the enzymes found in the liver, also exist in the brain.
For example, the brain has an abundance of CYP2D6 enzymes.... according to this...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20368706/

"Beside its expression in the liver, CYP2D6 is highly expressed in several regions of the brain, such as the hippocampus, thalamus, hypothalamus and the cortex, but its function in the brain is not well understood"

I guess it does say it's not well understood, but it makes me have a question.
If drugs like tramadol rely on CYP2D6 to metabolize into O-dsmt, then why is snorting it less effective or considered completely useless?
Wouldn't the enzymes in the brain help break it down to O-dsmt & cause it to hit the brain much faster & easier?


I guess this goes for many drugs that rely on first-pass metabolism to work. But I did read that most of the enzymes are more abundant in the liver, however CYP2D6 seems to be pretty abundant in the brain as well.

But doesn't this mean one could theoretically snort tramadol & it would still metabolize into O-dsmt in the brain?
I'm not saying anyone should do this or try this, I've always taken it by mouth because I've assumed you need first pass metabolism to make it work, but from reading this out of curiosity, it makes me wonder why the consensus is that it doesn't work?

It's kind of like heroin. You can take heroin orally if you want, but it's going to metabolize a lot differently & not work quite the same. But by snorting or shooting it, it still gets metabolized in the brain. And better. So why is the liver considered the only thing that metabolizes drugs into their active forms? I'm assuming for drugs that rely on other liver enzymes, they are more abundant in the liver than the brain, but CYP2D6 seems to be all over the brain & has a functional role. So...

Anybody got any answers or guesses?

 

[Ozymandeus]

I have a question for anybody who would know...

I've learned that many of the enzymes found in the liver, also exist in the brain.
For example, the brain has an abundance of CYP2D6 enzymes.... according to this...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20368706/

"Beside its expression in the liver, CYP2D6 is highly expressed in several regions of the brain, such as the hippocampus, thalamus, hypothalamus and the cortex, but its function in the brain is not well understood"

I guess it does say it's not well understood, but it makes me have a question.
If drugs like tramadol rely on CYP2D6 to metabolize into O-dsmt, then why is snorting it less effective or considered completely useless?
Wouldn't the enzymes in the brain help break it down to O-dsmt & cause it to hit the brain much faster & easier?


I guess this goes for many drugs that rely on first-pass metabolism to work. But I did read that most of the enzymes are more abundant in the liver, however CYP2D6 seems to be pretty abundant in the brain as well.

But doesn't this mean one could theoretically snort tramadol & it would still metabolize into O-dsmt in the brain?
I'm not saying anyone should do this or try this, I've always taken it by mouth because I've assumed you need first pass metabolism to make it work, but from reading this out of curiosity, it makes me wonder why the consensus is that it doesn't work?

It's kind of like heroin. You can take heroin orally if you want, but it's going to metabolize a lot differently & not work quite the same. But by snorting or shooting it, it still gets metabolized in the brain. And better. So why is the liver considered the only thing that metabolizes drugs into their active forms? I'm assuming for drugs that rely on other liver enzymes, they are more abundant in the liver than the brain, but CYP2D6 seems to be all over the brain & has a functional role. So...

Anybody got any answers or guesses?

Interesting, I actually had no idea CYP enzymes also exist in the brain. I'm surprised. I thought that was specific to the liver.

As to why snorting some drugs is less effective: because some of what is absorbed intranasally bypasses first pass metabolism. Basically it goes straight to the brain without going thru the liver first. Also, it may have a general lower bioavailability at that ROA.

I would armchair assume there are much less CYP enzymes in the brain than in the liver. So if a drug relies on CYP to become psychoactive, I'd imagine thats why.

 

[shreddedlettuce]

For example, the brain has an abundance of CYP2D6 enzymes.

Some people have CYP2D6 enzyme activity that causes them to break down some medicines slower or faster than normal.

Cytochrome P450 2D6 (known as CYP2D6) enzymes break down several medicines people often use. These include:

Codeine
Tramadol
Some other pain relievers
Atomoxetine
Ondansetron
Tamoxifen
Some medicines to treat depression (such as amitriptyline, fluvoxamine, imipramine, venlafaxine, and vortioxetine)
Some medicines to treat mental health disorders (such as atomoxetine)
Metoprolol (a medicine used for heart conditions and high blood pressure)

and more..

TL;DR = bottom line we all have different DNA and the synergy/cohesiveness, for lack of better words, is greatly effected by CYP2D6 in our CNS.

disclaimer - this is my take on it,

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Interesting, I actually had no idea CYP enzymes also exist in the brain. I'm surprised. I thought that was specific to the liver.

I had no idea either until recently. The thought occurred to me, "how does heroin metabolize into morphine & 6-mam in the brain", so I looked into that & then eventually just looked up "does your brain contain the same enzymes as your liver" and "does the brain contain CYP2D6 enzymes". And to my surprise, it apparently does.

As to why snorting some drugs is less effective: because some of what is absorbed intranasally bypasses first pass metabolism. Basically it goes straight to the brain without going thru the liver first. Also, it may have a general lower bioavailability at that ROA.

I would armchair assume there are much less CYP enzymes in the brain than in the liver. So if a drug relies on CYP to become psychoactive, I'd imagine thats why.

True. It does sound like other enzyme pathways (besides CYP2d6) aren't as abundant in the brain, so that would make sense.
Although I find it interesting that metabolization could still occur directly in the brain without the liver.

TL;DR = bottom line we all have different DNA and the synergy/cohesiveness, for lack of better words, is greatly effected by CYP2D6 in our CNS.

Sounds like theoretically, it could be possible to snort tramadol & have it metabolize into O-dsmt directly in the brain, rather than going the liver route. But it probably varies among person & depends on how many CYP2d6 enzymes the person has in their brain. Or a person could have more of these enzymes in the liver but less in the brain. And some could have em in both. Probably a lot of variation.

I just found it very interesting that these enzymes also exist in the brain. And in the case of CYP2D6, there seems to be quite a few of them. The other enzymes though, not so much.


Thanks for the responses!

 

[MaxLovesNarcotics]

Your list is very similar to mine. I picked those 3 too. Morphine is my DOC and was so for the longest time now. Heroin I never tried because you can’t really get it pure which is the main and sole reason why I never did, I don’t fw drugs from the streets or when there is purity concerns, almost everything I ever took came straight from the pharmacy. I wish I could try H though (unless you live in a small amount of countries who actually give it out as a substitution, which surprisingly has the best results out of all substitution opiates according to studies, it’s very very difficult to get unlaced) but it’s the strongest warmth and bliss out of them all, allegedly due to it’s unique metabolism, it turns into 6-MAM before it turns into Morphine, some research suggest that this is potentially a reason why the perceptive warmth and euphoria is the highest out of all opiates. I never did IV in my life and never will.

Oxymorphone is something also incredibly uncommon where I live and I haven’t even seen it here ever. If nobody had already voted for it already I might’ve considered switching it out for something else but this is the max amount of options in a poll. I would love to try Oxymorphone one day too but I don’t think I ever will. It’s incredibly uncommon were I live.

I get oxymorphone and it’s honestly amazing . Where are you located though? Cause ik you’re able to get it in US, Canada and Europe

 

[4DQSAR]

Every single user I've known who could get hold of dry amps of diamorphine (medical heroin) STILL voted oxymorphone as their favourite.

Now who knows if real desomorphine (Permonid™) or indeed dextromoramide (Palfium™) are subjectivelly better or worse that oxymorphone? There is and never has been anywhere on the planet where a person could take THAT Pepsi challange.

I've mentioned elsewhere that in the UK users would SELL their dry-amps of diamorphine hydrochloride (medical heroin) and buy brown. A quick bit of maths shows that the price of the diacetylmorphine was the same so they didn't get more or less by trading and yet I have yet to meet the junkie who would sell brown to get white. It seems to me it's the impurity profile that produces that 'warmth' as the usual complain was that diamorphine lacked warmth and was 'too clean, too subtle'.

But METHYLdesorphine turned out to be a minor sude product in korokodil (крокодил), that crude form of desomorphine Russian users cooked up and so again, was/is pure desomorphine that great OR is it because like brown heroin, it is in fact a mixture of opioids which may bind in a slightly different receptor domain.

But every single US-based opioid enthusiast stated that hands-down those original 40mg Opana were the dogs bollocks.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Morphine, or Hydromorphone