Opioids Vote for your favorite Opiate (in terms of warmth, Euphoria, bliss, etc.)

[Hexenstahl]

Also, why would it have twice the duration, unless dextromethadone somehow makes it metabolize that much faster? Literally half of the methadone is levomethadone, so out of 100mg methadone, that contains 50mg levomethadone. Why would that have half the duration of 50mg of levomethadone in isolation, unless dextromethadone literally halved its duration?

Why? You can go and ask the scientists who found out that it lasts twice as long, on why it does so even though it is an enantiopure agonist. I don't claim to know with certainty why it does last longer, I just know it does. Here is an interesting article: https://www.pharmawiki.ch/wiki/index.php?wiki=Levomethadon

It speaks of an even wider variance of 14h - 55h!!!

It's not an analogue of methadone, it is the active isomer.

No shit? It's funny how you automatically assume that I have no knowledge of chemistry even though you know literally nothing about me.

I am also not pulling this out of my arse.

Apparently you are if you say that LM can not last twice as long if you can find multiple sources all confirming that it can have twice its half life.

and also the most recent prescribing guidelines

Any maintenance patient will laugh about these guidelines written by armchair theorists. How often have I seen people rush into the clinic because the superduper new brand of bupe doesn't actually last as long as those "muh guidelines" said they would? How often have I seen people suffer from undisclosed side effects even though "muh guidelines" said "perfectly safe"? How often have I seen those guidelines and the doctors who mindlessly parrot them, say that a patient is not supposed to feel cravings as soon as he is "eingestellt" on his medication? It might sound like an ignorant and arrogant thing to say when an outsider hears it, but we patients really DO know better what works and how it works on a practical level than the title wearers, so to hell with those quasi-religious guidelines LOL.

There is nowhere any mention of levomethadone having any meaningful differences in dosage

Oh well, I guess that is why LM in liquid preparation only contains HALF the dose compared to methadone. Must be for the shits and giggles...

other than that it is twice as potent

Please go back to my initial post here and read exactly what opioid potency means and why it is so incredibly misleading. The fact you believe increased potency has no influence on dosage is proof of what I said about this term misleading people.


Addendum:
and here is the study that shows how LM has a longer half-life than the inactive/less potent (S)-enantiomer component found in standard racemic methadone, so there is your proof that enantiopurity affects a molecule, while in a racemic it does not necessarily do so despite the enantiomer in question being present in that racemic: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23093298/

Btw, this reverse phenomenon of the platonic concept of the sum being more than its parts is unique to optical isomerism to my knowledge. It is widely known in medicinal chemistry for instance that isolated alkaloids actually miss certain effects they can only develop in synergy with other alkaloids (the alkaloids of Kava-Kava being a good example). In optical isomers however, this rule is absent. There can be an enhancement or even a completely new and unexpected emergence of additional or enhanced effects when a racemic undergoes an enantioselective reaction.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

It speaks of an even wider variance of 14h - 55h!!!

How is that a wider variance? 14-55 hours is a commonly reported half-life for methadone. It is exactly the same.

Apparently you are if you say that LM can not last twice as long if you can find multiple sources all confirming that it can have twice its half life.

To say that it "can have twice it's half life" is meaningless in itself, if the variance is so huge anyway. Methadone can have twice the half life of methadone in a different person. That doesn't mean that in general, it has twice the duration. But if you can find multiple sources, I have yet to see a single one.

Any maintenance patient will laugh about these guidelines written by armchair theorists.

I am not an armchair theorist, I have been on treatment myself and I know a ton of people that are on it right now. I have literally never heard of levomethadone having twice the duration at an equivalent dose.
In contrast, a lot of people will laugh at the "trust me bro, my friend told me so" anecdotes' evidential value.
However, I actually have both.

Oh well, I guess that is why LM in liquid preparation only contains HALF the dose compared to methadone...

Uhhh... Yeah. That's because it's double the potency. That is, in fact, 100% in line with what I said.

You take half the dosage, and you take it exactly as often. You don't twice as much methadone, twice as often, as levomethadone. If it really reliably had double the duration, and yet it was prescribed to people at the same dosage interval as racemic methadone, there would be BODIES. This is not the same as your buprenorphine injection running low on legs a day or two earlier. Yet it is dosed at exactly the same interval, just at half the dose.

You have profoundly misunderstood what I said. I may have been ambiguous, though I restated the point several times that there should have been little confusion: you dose levomethadone exactly as you would methadone, just at half the amount. No other differences. You don't need to tell me about potency and its relation to strength, euphoria and other effects. Buprenorphine is super potent and it's weak sauce. Fentanyl is super potent, and strong, but not euphoric or reinforcing. I get it. I never said I believed potency has no effect on dosage. In fact that is the ONLY thing potency has an effect on.

Addendum:
and here is the study that shows how LM has a longer half-life than the inactive/less potent (S)-enantiomer component found in standard racemic methadone, so there is your proof that enantiopurity affects a molecule, while in a racemic it does not necessarily do so despite the enantiomer in question being present in that racemic: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23093298/

Yeah. If only that were a comparison between levomethadone and racemic methadone, it would support your point. Yet it does not. The half-life of dextromethadone is not really relevant here.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

What I can say with absolute certainty after all these years of trying all sorts of agonists, is that the potency of an opioid has zero relation to its euphoric potential INCLUDING its nociceptive potential.

This !

I can't count how many people have given me shit for "liking tramadol" because it's "weak".
It's like uhhh, yeah it may be weak in potency, but in the right dosage, it can be as strong as taking some hydrcodone & lasts much longer.

People mistake high potency = better effects. When in reality, all potency means is how much of a dose of something it takes to cause an effect & receptor occupation.

I had the same experience some times with street heroin. There'd be times I'd get some heroin & it really wasn't THAT euphoric at all compared to some of my other experiences with weaker opioids (like trams). It just sort of felt like any other sedating opioid. But then there'd be times when I'd get heroin & I'd be itching & smiling & just in complete bliss, with motivation & energy. Not sure why the experience varied so much, especially when I'd make sure to get it before it got stepped on with any other crap by dealers. Maybe some of the heroin was shitty & not as good at producing 6-MAM or something. No idea. Is it possible for street heroin to have like, differences that might make it more euphoric varying by batch & how it was cooked? (Excluding fent or other cuts altogether). Maybe it was just the varying potency that made the experiences differ from time to time (for me). who knows.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Nobody's voted for fentanyl at all. lol
Which is good & really says a lot about how crappy fentanyl is. And that's because it is.

Another good example of an extremely potent opioid that still sucks when it comes to actual effects.
Fent feels like if you took heroin, stripped away all the soul, the warmth & energy & replaced it with a cold clinical sedation that lasts maybe 15 mins.
When I tried fent, I felt like I was literally suppose to be tied down to a frickin medical table in a cold hospital room. It felt really gross.
Also felt like I was a gonna nod out & die every time I did a bump. I couldn't wait to use it all up & get rid of it cause I hated it that much.

Never wanted it again after that.

I still vividly remember one of the first times I snorted heroin (probably around the 5-10th time), I had 2 friends over (a guy & a girl). And I shared some with them & they had never done it before. And for the next few hours, we all just laid on my floor, cuddled together because it felt so good to touch & be touched by other people. We talked about life, our pasts, the future, everything. We laughed, we itched. We gently nodded, we itched. All in all, it was a really heartwarming experience that sort of brought all 3 of us closer together.

I can't imagine fentanyl bringing people close together in a similar manner. lol It just doesn't provide the same feeling or effects as other opioids. Even the nod on fentanyl felt weird/different than a regular nod from heroin or the lower potency opioids.

 

[Hexenstahl]

First of all: Can I ask you in which country you live?

How is that a wider variance? 14-55 hours is a commonly reported half-life for methadone. It is exactly the same.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't comparing that to methadone, but to my previous statement of LM being between 33h and 55h. I then discovered that it can be even lower than that. You are reading my words completely out of context.

To say that it "can have twice it's half life" is meaningless in itself, if the variance is so huge anyway.

All the studies you can read on both methadone and LM agree that these agonists have a strong interindividual variance in half life, so take the lower end with a huge grain of salt because that is basically never corroborated in real life. I have yet to see an LM patient who starts getting wd after 14h are over. This is why I mentioned studies only in a complementary way and pointed out that I rely on experiential and anecdotal evidence. You on the other hand are getting hung up, or shall I say bewitched, by "paper magic". It is a fact that people who take LM need to take less in dosage and less in frequency. Ofc that doesn't mean that everyone does (because your habitual mind knows that you have always taken it daily, so you continue to do just that, lest you want to deal with placebo cravings) but some like me do.

Methadone can have twice the half life of methadone

I'm confused.

That doesn't mean that in general, it has twice the duration.

Yeah I'm probably just hallucinating it. I'm just hallucinating that my wds start after the second day.

But if you can find multiple sources, I have yet to see a single one.

Ok, let me ask you this question, because perhaps I can then better understand what the fuck you are actually trying to convey here: what IS a drug's half life, HOW does it affect the drug's pharmacodynamics/-kinetics and WHY does an increased half life not lead to an increased duration? I'm asking you this because so far, all you have done is explain the what and not the why. It's easy to say "no it doesn't do that". No go ahead and tell me WHY it doesn't.

I am not an armchair theorist

You keep systematically misunderstanding me. I wasn't calling YOU an armchair theorist, but those who write those guidelines you tout so much about.

In contrast, a lot of people will laugh at the "trust me bro, my friend told me so" anecdotes' evidential value.

Ofc it looks stupid in contrast if you leave out the OTHER half of what I said. You are also grossly simplifying what I said about anecdotal evidence. When someone says they have experienced something, that might be coincidence, placebo, exaggeration, etc. But if those people add up and their reports are consistent, then I tend to not dismiss them. Especially not if my own personal experience corroborates it. But go ahead and distort again what I have said. I'm sure it makes you sleep sounder at night.

I have never HEARD of levomethadone having...

Oh now wait a minute! What was that again about "trust me bro, my friend told me so" you were saying earlier? Rules for thee but not for me. That seems to be your motto, isn't it?

Uhhh... Yeah. That's because it's double the potency. That is, in fact, 100% in line with what I said.

Potato, tomato. I was referring to the first half of that sentence. What you said was that LM has no meaningful difference in dosage. Now, dosage and potency being two sides of the same coin, I was trying to show you the contradictory logic of your statement by highlighting how the fact that half the dose is used, is direct evidence that there is a meaningful difference in dosage, otherwise why use half the dose?

You don't twice as much methadone, twice as often, as levomethadone

I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that given a specific dose of LM, you wouldn't need to take double the amount of methadone to catch up to that? That is not correct. When I was hospitalized I was put on methadone because the hospital didn't have LM. I was on 30mg LM back then. While in hospital I had to take 60mg methadone in order to not get dope sick. I didn't need to say that. The doctors immediately knew from the very first day that twice the amount of methadone is necessary in patients who are dependent on LM. And yes, given the fact that you can take LM in less of a time frequency (once every ~48h) than methadone, you are by comparison taking methadone twice as often due to its shorter duration.

Look buddy, don't believe what I say. Just go ahead and take LM for a while and then abruptly stop. You WILL see that you can wait twice as long until wd kicks in.

If it really reliably had double the duration, and yet it was prescribed to people at the same dosage interval as racemic methadone, there would be BODIES.

NO! A longer half-life does not automatically mean that a potentially fatal amount accumulates when the medication is taken daily BECAUSE ELIMINATION CONTINUES BETWEEN EVERY DOSE!
The fact you do not know this proves that you have no idea what the effin fuck you are talking about!


Here, let me demonstrate it to you with a bit of math.

Suppose, purely for illustration:

Methadone: 100 mg once daily
Levomethadone: 50 mg once daily
Avrg. methadone half-life = 24 hours
Avrg. levomethadone half-life = 48 hours
Assume complete absorption and a simple one-compartment model.


Now, for a drug with a 24-hour half-life, approximately half of the previous day's amount remains when the next dose is taken:

Day	Methadone remaining before new dose	After adding 100 mg
1	0 mg	100 mg
2	50 mg	150 mg
3	75 mg	175 mg
4	87.5 mg	187.5 mg
5	93.8 mg	193.8 mg
6	96.9 mg	196.9 mg
7	98.4 mg	198.4 mg

It approaches a steady-state of approximately 200 mg of drug-equivalent amount in the body immediately after each dose.


Now let's consider LM with a 48-hour half-life. After 24 hours, 70.7% remains.
If we gave 50 mg every 24 hours:

Day	Amount remaining before new dose	After adding 50 mg
1	0	50
2	35.4	85.4
3	60.4	110.4
4	78.1	128.1
5	90.6	140.6
6	99.4	149.4
7	105.6	155.6

It eventually approaches approximately 170.7 mg immediately after each dose.

So why doesn't it keep accumulating and cause "bodies" as you so poetically said?
Because elimination continues between every dose.
At steady-state, the amount eliminated over one dosing interval becomes equal to the amount administered. The body therefore reaches an equilibrium rather than accumulating indefinitely.

It is like this:

Longer half-life → more accumulation → longer time to reach steady state.


And NOT this:

Longer half-life → concentration keeps increasing forever.


But I guess you will still go ahead and keep telling me how wrong I am, using your confusing, non-sequitur, strawman fallacy type of rhetoric. Since I have better things to do with my time, I'll pass if that is what you wish to do.

 

[Hexenstahl]

Yeah. If only that were a comparison between levomethadone and racemic methadone, it would support your point. Yet it does not. The half-life of dextromethadone is not really relevant here.

Dextromethadone? What have you been smoking? Make a screenshot and show me where it mentions dextromethadone. You're either high af or you are a lying piece of shit. I have read the full german study and it doesn't even mention the word dextromethadone. Here is the full piece: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00482-012-1229-2
Use a free access extractor and show me where they mention d-methadone you liar.

 

[Yunai]

Thank you for all the responses. I wish I could answer you all individually but there are so many answers. I appreciate every single one. Surprisingly the list now fills up being super similar to my choices with Morphine, Oxy, Hydromorphone and H being the top choices (the ones I chose too). Oxymorphone seems to have gotten also quite a bunch of votes. Unfortunately where I live this is an uncommon substances so I don’t think I’ll ever get to try it, sadly. Also very happy to see Fentanyl having 0 votes! I never did it but every single Junkie friend told me Fentanyl feels worse, they describe it as a cold sleep with much less warmth (their accords, I can’t corroborate it).
I was away from all social media so apologies for my late response. The last 2 weeks been rough. On the 2nd October my friend whom I knew for 8 years (who also made music that meant so much to me) died from Fake Percs (fuck Fentanyl) and I am still very depressed about this

 

[Yunai]

Lmfao Buprenorphine has zero votes, as it should! Complete garbage!
With no tolerance, it'd be a little more enjoyable than codeine I think though. But still not worth voting for.

I voted for heroin, hydromorphone & then tramadol.
I've never done hydromorphone, but I know I love it just from the way it gets talked about. Same with oxymorphone, never had that one either.

Tramadol has this nice stimulating euphoric feeling that's hard to get from other opioids. But once you're tolerant to more potent opioids, like buprenorphine or heroin, it loses all of it's magic.


I see Fox News is running non-stop anti-kratom/opioid propaganda. They're calling it the "silent fentanyl". SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS!!! Kratom has never done jack shit for me personally, but it's only a partial agonist. Comparing it to fentanyl is some insane levels of fear mongering.

I hope to try hydromorphone or oxymorphone one day before I die though. It's a dream of mine. I don't care how short acting they are, I'll always be curious.

Heroin will always be my favorite though. Very euphoric, almost empathic. Itchy. Stimulating & sedating at the same time. I miss that shit. The brown/tan color. Almost like brown sugar or clay. That acetic smell. Mmmmm.

I'm also an anomaly & I enjoyed propoxyphene The big oval red/brown pills. Only had a few day bender with them but they felt pretty noddy & dreamy. I had just come down from DXM trip & had no tolerance or was in WD at the time (can't remember), but I enjoyed them. They were expired pills my friend found in her mom's basement, but they still worked fine.

The codones are okay for pain relief I guess. But they seem really flat & just "blah" for me. They're just a step up above codeine & buprenorphine for me.

Good post. I watched the movie Reindeerspotting Escape From Santaland (and even bought the sequel Lost Boys recently - GREAT movies showing the lives of young junkies unfiltered) and they in a rural Finnish town back in the 2010s did IV Buprenorphine because it’s the only opiate they had available, it can cause a similar feeling if you never did anything else but yea the protagonist at the end discovers Heroin in Marocco (he later moved to Cambodia and switched completely to Yaba = Crystal Meth before he was murdered, the incompetent police over there say it’s a “suicide” but he had defensive marks and huge debts he desperately tried to pay off just before he died).

Anyway, Tramadol I took quite often too but I guess I either already had a little bit of tolerance or I just didn’t react too well to it. I loved all opiates I ever did except Kratom but Tramadol is a close second worst one. Idk it always gave me quite little euphoria and warmth and that was during a time when I also did Dihydrocodein and that still gave me strong effects.

I fully agree about the fear mongering and what you said about Kratom. I hated the taste of Kratom and it gave me the smallest effect by far and I did that when I had ZERO tolerance.

I also have these “I definitely want to try before I die”. For me it’s good unlaced Heroin by far the number 1. oxymorphone sounds good from the votes but where I live this is very uncommon and I doubt I’ll ever get my hands on it but I’d love to try Oxymorphone too. I’d also love to do Hydromorphone again, I did do them and they are in my top 3 (Morphine, Oxycodone, Hydromorphone) but only oral and only a handful of times and only the 2mgs, I still loved these, they were great but I’d love to try a different ROA (rectal mainly) or anything other than IV. I will never IV ever. Or a higher dose of them.

 

[Yunai]

Agreed, both heroin and hydromorphone win in theory -- heroin in practice for decades until fcking fent, nites, and xylazine became "Accepted" which im sorry but I gotta put alot of blame on the users for 'accepting' that shit....

hydromorphone just too short of an experience, pushes up against my no more than 3 shots in a day rule and as mentioned snorting it to stay healthy, total waste you gunna regret.

Hell yea. I sometimes also wish I would’ve been born a little earlier, maybe being in my 20s during the Kurt Cobain times, or 80s when H was still prevalent and not these horrible synthetic drugs like Fentanyl and xylazine like you said. You are 100% right about that

 

[Yunai]

Crazy that you left Opium out of an Opiate poll

My vote would have been refined opium latex (eaten), with IV Morphine right up there with it but very different feeling, so voted morphine and oxycodone

EDIT disclaimer, my only other opiate experience is codeine, oral morphine, and low-dose heroin (vaped badly, still enough to make me puke though)

Yea man sorry bout this. I did realize that but I can’t add any more options to the poll than those already on it. I smoked the real opium once, unfortunately I already had quite the tolerance and the dosage was too little to give me any meaningful effect. So I can’t really comment on it.

Edit:/ nevermind. It worked now? Last time I checked it said I can’t add anything more to it but now it worked. I added Opium to the poll

 

[4DQSAR]

@Hexenstahl - It was me. When comparing laevomethadone and raecemic methadone I pointed out dextromethadone is subject to a different enzymatic pathway BUT in my defence, pointing out why it's half-life is shorter.

I didn't think it overly complex and eminently checkable by anyone who can use a search engine.

There I go again, assuming a person would at least CHECK.

The irony is I can't read the response as I hit [IGNORE] on that troll long ago.

 

[Ozymandeus]

Sometimes I wonder anyone who doesn't answer heroin hasn't done very good heroin

But sometimes I also wonder how much of my opinion is rose tinted.

I have certainly done many opioids I enjoyed just as much, if not more in some ways. However, that warm blanket of soul hugging comfort opioids can provide, heroin definitely takes the cake there for me.

 

[JackARoe]

Morphine and heroin. I've not had either in years but spent a good 25 years dabbling between these two. Opium does get a special mention, and one day we will look back in history after all these super potent synthetic opiates come out and realize how gentle God's Own Medicine was.

I only use a little plain leaf kratom these days. I will not out of principle (and shame for so much morphine use) try 7-OH. I dont neeed to, I trust you all. Sounds like a trap too. I mean a good glass of poppy tea keeps you well for 24 hours. Sounds like some of the newer synthetic opiates are short lived and too potent.

I never tried buprenorphine. Crazy I know. I have been on MM a few times, but bupe was not an option in the 80's or 90's that I know of.

 

[Yunai]

I would never refer to myself as an "addict". lol Dependent, sure.

It was literally a word created to stigmatize people who enjoy or benefit from using substances & helps the people who profit off the "recovery model" (looking at you, Sub clinics). Same with "substance use disorder".

Looks like Morphine is winning. I bet IV Morphine is pretty nice.
Followed by Oxycodone. Which I'll never understand. Unless it's because oxycodone use to be more widely available, so a lot more people were into it.

A doctor wrote me a nice fat script (1 fill worth though) of Oxycodone in 2010 for an abscess on my ass. lol
But I don't remember oxycodone doing a whole lot when I was already tolerant to 400mg of trramadol a day. In fact, I found oxycodone rather boring & too short compared to tram/o-desmethyltramadol. And honestly the only thing that really helped the abscess pain was smoking a shit ton of weed & getting it drained.

But I've never had it again since then, so maybe my opinion of it would have changed.

All my favorite opioids in order from best to worst (that I've tried) - Heroin, Methadone, Tramadol, Propoxyphene, Oxycodone/Hydrocodone, Tapentadol, Buprenorphine, Codeine, Poppy Seeds, Fentanyl, Kratom/7-oH, Tianeptine (sulfate), Loperamide...

Fentanyl sucks ass. People mistakenly believe that just because an opioid is more "potent" than another, that it automatically means it's "more enjoyable" or "better", but that's not true at all. Fentanyl provides nice pain relief, but it never made me feel "warm" and "lovely" like heroin or a good dose of tramadol. It just made me feel like I was gonna nod out & die for 10-15 minutes & then that it was over really. Fuck fentanyl. Shit killed a lot of my friends too. Well technically prohibition killed them. But it's still going on the lower rung of my list for those reasons.

I still remember my first years on tramadol. My mom use to get like 180 50mg of tramadol a month back in the 2008-2014 days. I can still remember walking around town, listening to my headphones, the golden rays of sun beating down on me. It was beautiful. Best era of my life honestly. People shit on trams because they're not very potent (or they're already use to more potent opioids). But again, potency doesn't always mean better effects.

I had used stuff like hydrocodone & codeine in my teen years. And I couldn't understand the allure really back then. They just made me nauseous & spaced out. It wasn't until I was 18 or 19 & took tramadol, that it had me scrubbing floors, cleaning like crazy & nodding out the same time. That's when I truly understood the power opioids have at increasing quality of life. With no tolerance, buprenorphine can offer some of that same effect as tramadol (although it feels a lot different). But with bupe, once you use it a few days in a row, that feeling goes away. Where as with trams, I could get that same effect day in & day out for weeks & weeks at a time.

Opioids (and their effects) also remind me of colors. Like when I think of "heroin", I think of brown (obviously), rose colors, gold, black & grey.
When I think of tramadol, I think of grey, white, blue, black & golden orange. And even a little light green hues.
When I think of hydrocodone I think of white, dark blue & black. And also a "static" like color. Like the fuzz on a TV screen.
When I think of buprenorphine I think of pink, orange, red & grey/white.
When I think of Tapentadol, I think of grey, red, black & dark blue.
When I think of morphine, I think of blue, brown, green, black, gold.
When I think of fentanyl, I think of blue, green, black & white/grey.

Anyone else imagine colors when they think of an opioid? I get the same with music. Music makes me think of colors as well.

You are VERY right about the potency part. Potency doesn’t transfer to warmth and euphoria. Every friend that I have who died Fentanyl says the same thing. "Cold sleep" no warmth / euphoria like with the other opioids. I never did it, well technically when I had surgery they put me under but obviously I can’t remember much of that experience haha (when I woke up I felt horrible, no nausea but horrible could be from the surgery or the other drugs used for anesthesia though so no idea, can’t really comment on it but I’d rather try dirty H than Fentanyl lmao). My friend died from Fake Percs on the 2nd of October. So fuck Fentanyl indeed.

Also you might have Synesthesia. Which is really cool. I wouldn’t be able to associate it with colors like you. This sounds very very much like Synesthesia, do you know if you have that by any chance?

 

[Yunai]

Am I weird? Out of all the opioids I've tried, I found codeine to be the most euphoric but like other opioids, after the initial novelty wore off, I couldn't understand why people would keep chasing the feeling.
overall I find opioids to be the most boring class of psychoactive drugs I've tried aside from barbituates. I don't see what all the hype is about
At this point I've tried hydrdocodone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, opium (smoked and in tea), 7-OH, and MGM-15, some weird new kratom derivative. Even when I get strong effect (nod), I am wondering why people like them so much...

I guess I consider myself lucky.

People react very very differently to substances. I say the same thing about Uppers. I did Ritalin a few times and an RC upper similar to coke a few times and always hated it, never got a positive feeling only racing heartbeat, shaking, sweating, uncomfortable, etc so I never took uppers again. I feel very lonely and heartbroken, my brain lacks endorphins naturally, since opiates bind to that receptors they work wonders for me. I was very suicidal and it stopped completely once I started opiates. In the beginning I started because I considered ending it all after my only gf , the most beautiful girl I ever seen, left, it was very bad - the first few weeks of doing Morphine it was so intense, the heartbreak, sadness, loneliness and suicidal thoughts immediately disappeared and the warmth was strong it almost felt as if she was with me again, I even called my Morphine “KayKay” cuz that was her nickname …

Codein btw has a ceiling effect so that could explain your experience possibly but you have tried stronger opiates too so it might just not be for you.
-Different people have different issues, lives, experiences etc. someone who suffers severe anxiety profits immensely from Xanax (or Benzos in general) while the next person who doesn’t does not get the same positive effects.
-Someone with ADHD profits from dopaminergic drugs
-I explain my severe loneliness and heartbreak with a lack of endorphins (which bind to the opioid receptors). I am very lonely for pretty much most of my life (except for the one year I spend time with KayKay) so it’s a chronic and pretty heavy thing, not just short term.

 

[JackARoe]

Codeine is awesome in the beginning. 120 mgs on an empty stomach and some crackers with a cup of coffee and I was God. I had a doctor in Long Beach CA that would write me 200 tylenol 4's simply by going to him and saying to him I want to stay off the streets. He did that a few times. I also think codeine is stealthier than oxycodone (not better but more consistent). I know people that took 100 mgs of oxycodone a day and felt nothing after a while. Morphine and codeine seem heavier and don't lose their effect as quick. Saying that without tolerance 30 mgs of oxycodone was perfect. I had a friend prescribed 90 oxycontins (20 mgs) a month. This was 25 years ago. He would give that stuff to me because he liked the NYC heroin better. Oddly enough he was also prescribed gabapentin, but back then they were for just for leaving them laying around. Didn't touch them. Now in 2026 it is it's own class of drugs.

 

[Yunai]

Yup.
I used buprenorphine in between heroin & tramadol, so my tolerance was basically low-to-nil at the time.
And I found it enjoyable enough that I continued to take it & would even buy it. A really small dose kept me noddy all day.

One of the first times I tried a Suboxone, I took a little corner piece & went to work thinking I'd be fine cause I was use to working on tramadol. I even had a tolerance to 400mg of tramadol at the time, so I didn't expect much from it.
But I stood at my mailing station at work & was nodding standing up the entire day. My eyes just continuously kept closing & I could not keep them open. People even noticed and asked me if I had gotten enough sleep. lol I had to lie & say "yeah I'm just tired".

Subs can give me intense nods, almost similar to fent-like nods. No real euphoria, but a strong urge to close my eyes or tilt my head forward.
Heroin & tramadol nods were pretty nice, but bupe nods feel a little different than those nods.

I visited Washington DC in 2018 & took 4mg of Subs that day before I went. And for some reason it hit me just right that day. No pain, stimulated, a tad euphoric, calm, sensual, excited to be alive & exploring the world. It was really gloomy & rainy that day too which just added to the relaxation. So I have a fond memory of buprenorphine at least.

The euphoria can be lacking, especially when you're use to better stuff. But with no tolerance, it'll shine through a little bit.

Still wouldn't vote for it as one of my favorites though.

Buprenorphine can be enjoyable though to people who have nothing else. Check out the documentary "Reindeerspotting" from Finland. Buprenorphine was really huge there at one time.

If buprenorphine continued to feel the same as it did on the first day you take it with no tolerance, then it wouldn't be such a bad opioid. But for me, daily use made the good parts vanish & then it just makes you feel lethargic & tired all day. Where as with tramadol, heroin & hydrocodone, I could still feel wonderful everyday for days/weeks at a time on it, even when tolerant. Plus trams, H & other full agonists didn't leave me feeling dead inside, lethargic & lifeless like buprenorphine does. In the end with bupe, you end up dependent on a too-long-acting, potent partial agonist that doesn't have any of the same benefits as a full agonist. So that's why I think it also sucks. lol

I read that Matthew Perry was on buprenorphine for a long time & he wrote in a journal that it was making him feel dead inside & he couldn't enjoy his hobbies & life anymore (I dunno how true this is), but I relate to that so much.

I think the long acting opioids are great for maintenance or whatever. But I think because they hang around on your receptors so long, that you end up tolerant quicker & lose the effects quicker. Because at least with the shorter acting agonists, your receptors get a little down time (like when you sleep or in between dosing). At least this has been my experience.

So hell yeah buprenorphine can be enjoyable, even euphoric, under the right circumstances. But it's not the greatest for getting the same experience the next day or a week later like all the other shorter acting agonists. I think that's why I liked heroin & tramadol the most, because they can feel great, but they'll wear off, giving your receptors a break & the ability to re-dose & get the effects back. Redosing on bupe most of the time feels pointless.

Omg you mentioned the same movie Reindeerspotting I mentioned in this thread too, before I even read this. What a coincidence! If you haven’t, watch the sequel “Lost Boys: it’s exceptionally good, Jani’s fate is extremely dark and his homeboy’s Antti too. I’d love to write about it but I don’t even want to spoiler it because it’s extremely interesting and a bit mysterious too. I can even share the movie with you if you can’t spend the 7 bucks to buy it, just hit me up via dm. No problem.

You are very right. The extended release (24h) opiates create great tolerance much faster and effects lose much faster too. I can speak of first hand experience here. When I got into substitution it was very fast before I barely could get high (at least the warmth and euphoria) anymore.

Also I have had a similar experience, people usually can tell if you are nodding instead of just being tired, sadly. One time, this was a year ago approximately, I had a shitty day or whatever and took more than my daily dose (I am substituted with Morphine HCL 24h extended release - the best out of all of them, for me at least). I crushed another pill to remove the ER and swallowed it. At first I didn’t feel it so I didn’t think much of it and went to my classes at Uni but then during class the same thing happened to me, started nodding, people were SUPER worried and I was EMBARRASSED as HELL. I slumped over and almost fell out my chair, couldn’t keep my eyes open, my colleagues were very friendly but pretty concerned and the teacher told me to go home but I said “no it’s ok” which was a bad decision in hindsight. It did hurt my reputation I think (well, I done worse things when it comes to that unfortunately, for example some people thought I did IV, which I never did, I still have more than 10 tons of regrets on my shoulders), thankfully that same class with the same group and teacher still had like 5 more classes so every time I went there I gave my best and work with them and even volunteered to present a project (I was the only one) just so they did see I am intelligent and wouldn’t keep thinking of me as a fiend. I made the big excuse that a psychiatrist gave me antidepressants that made me too sleepy since my father bout to have an open heart surgery (which was true but the antidepressant part wasn’t, I hated SSRI, took 5 different ones in my life, every single time severe side effects and no positive effect).

I like your posts you write some good stuff. ^^

 

[Yunai]

I think it's more commonly used in Europe.

I believe @Hexenstahl wrote a whole post about this opioid & it being their favorite. At least I think it was tilidine. It has some unique properties, I believe dopamine reuptake inhibitor properties, which occurs because of it's metabolite nortilidine.

I'd love to try it myself too, personally. It's basically an opioid & a stimulant in one.

Tilidine is super common in Germany and it’s prescribed much more commonly over Tramadol there. Its potency is comparable to Tramadol, people prefer it over Tramadol almost universally since it has a lot of qualities that are just better. It’s common (or at least there was a time when it was) with teenager’s who use it as a part drug like Lean. I did both Tilidine and Tramadol, I did like Tilidine much more, Tramadol is my second worst opiate (Kratom is the worst) but I liked all of them except for Kratom. If we put Dihydrocodein into the equation I would rank them Dihydrocodein >>> Tilidine > o-Desmethyltramadol >>> Tramadol. It’s been quite a long time since I did these weaker opiates though nowadays it’s just Morphine.

Since someone asked before, I do not want to disclose my location. Nothing personal, I just don’t feel comfortable but I will say this one parent is from the US another is German so I’m bilingual and speak both languages fluently and spent time in both countries.

Edit:/ also since you’re interested, Tilidine was a bit similar to Oxycodone (but much weaker) in the sense that it makes you less sleepy compared to other opiates (I guess that’s due to the dopaminergic effects possibly), and o-desmethyltramadol there was time you could just buy it from the clear web before it was regulated lol. It was much superior to the regular Tramadol, exceptionally good for boofing. It had a surprising long half time (10 hours), the rush was not as strong compared to stronger opiates but decent euphoria/warmth that’s long lasting but with less of a kick. I liked it but it did cause the tolerance to go up faster (I believe as well that the longer lasting an opiate is the quicker tolerance builds up, I definitely experienced this once I got into the sun clinic and got Morphine HCL extended release 24h prescribed). Both Tilidine and o-desmethyltramadol are by far not my favorite, I definitely liked them but definitely much weaker in all regards compared to Morphine, Hydromorphone or Oxycodone. At least in my experience
And I never heard of ANYONE IV’ing Tilidine, for some opiates it just doesn’t even make sense.

 

[Yunai]

As DI88 said, Tilidine is indeed my favourite, and I had the privilege of trying a lot of opioids thanks to the Darknet, the RC market (research chemicals) and my sister who works as a nurse in a palliative care hospital. What I can say with absolute certainty after all these years of trying all sorts of agonists, is that the potency of an opioid has zero relation to its euphoric potential INCLUDING its nociceptive potential. I had cases where a bunch of codeine was more effective at killing my past shoulder pain than superduper "strong" oxycodone. This is true for the entire non-side effect spectrum of opioid medication. That's the reason why analgetic potency is a total misnomer in my opinion, because the only thing an opioid's potency tells you is its dosage in relation to the opioid of reference, which is why we should be referring to it as dose/dosage sensitivity because this is what it actually is.
Drop the whole potency nonsense because it creates wrong expectations, both in the field of science and pain management, as well as in the recreational field (perhaps especially there). This is why doctors have to experiment so much when it comes to the right opioid agonist for their patient. It's because opioids are a wild mix. Sure, they are the most reliable drug class, but they are a wild mix (or maybe our brain chemistry is?).

Let me give you an example: most people say Heroin is one of the most euphoric opioids they have taken. Well, it turned out I didn't actually like it that much when I took it. I remember when I made the switch from Tilidine to Heroin I was somewhat disappointed. Both because its stronger sedation covered a great portion of the euphoria like a leaden blanket, as well as the fact that its duration felt less stable than Tilidine. Or how about an opposite example: Morphine. Tons of people say morph is not euphoric. I hadn't tried this agonist for a very long time because I was operating under that very same assumption. I thought that if 99% of all the people I have heard from keep saying that morph isn't worth it, then it must be true. Then one day my plug's dealer ran out of his usual palette of opioids and instead gave him a whole bunch of MS Contin 30 mg blisters, which I took ofc because that beats having no opioid high at all lol. When I dropped that pill I was amazed at how good I felt. I was weirdly sedated and motivated at the same time. It was a bit like heroin without the lead blanket feeling I described earlier.

So long story short: every opioid is unique, there is no true consensus on which one is the most euphoric. If you want proof of this, check out this thread in a swiss-german drug forum where people have made lists about their favourite opioids, ranked from most to least euphoric. Aside from Heroin, there is a great amount of interindividual variance when it comes to the perception of which opioids are the best. https://forum.eve-rave.ch/viewtopic.php?t=37344

I think we should make a list here too, wouldn't that be fun? Lemme be the one who throws the first stone

#1 Tilidine
#2 Oxymorphone (only had one genuine pill from the USA that was not pressed fent bs)
#3 Levomethadone
#4 Oxycodone
#5 Morphine
#6 Pantopon
#7 Shire Opium
#8 Codeine
#9 O-Desmethyltramadol
#10 Tramadol
#11 Heroin (golden triangle)
#12 Heroin (afghan brown)
#13 Heroin (mexican black tar)
#14 Hydrocodone
#15 Hydromorphone (waaaay too short, otherwise it would replace Morphine)
#16 Kratom (it is beyond me how people can actually gulp down massive amounts of this awful tasting powder. Euphoria isn't always there, but if it is, it's meh)
#17 Methadone (it's just a sleeping pill)
#18 DHC (feels like the down-syndrome version of codeine to me)
#19 Buprenorphine (tried this crap for the first and last time a couple months ago)
#20 Ro4-1539 (holy mother of god, never again)

Wishlist: 1-Iodomorphine, Oxymorphazone, 14-Cinnamoyloxycodeinone, Dihydroheroin and that Tilidine derivative @Opiophiliclab mentioned on his blog.

Thanks for your post. Since I am bilingual with one parent being German I did actually know of the eve rave forum before bluelight but I prefer bluelight since English is the language I am slightly better in (can speak both fluently but it’s the one I use most of the time). You are very very right about potency. Potency is just related to the dosage.

Everyone’s brain and everyone’s experiences are very different hence why everyone has a different list. For example Tilidine would be rather on the bottom of my list (not the lowest but it’d be #15 or #16 if I had to do a top 20 like you did). I can say this though, when I got into the sub clinic they wanted me to try Subutex first, didn’t like it (plus I already had quite a big tolerance so I wanted a full agonist), so then they quickly switched me to Methadone - liked it better but wasn’t quite right for me (didn’t last the full day), L-methadone was the next it was much much superior to Methadone by a huge margin but then finally they switched me to Morphine HCL 24h extended release. I can’t fully remember the reason but this was the best decision a doctor ever made for me. never in my life did I have a medication that I react SO WELL to and that helped me so much in my life. I literally have zero side effects, function daily, absolutely no slowdown in my head, I even ride a motorcycle almost daily (not when I try to get high or do xans of course!!), never had any issues with that and the crazy part is not even constipation - well I never had nausea or constipation on any opiates (other than Kratom with it’s disgusting taste) to begin with in my life but on Morphine I once was on 900mg for the extended release which is very high and even then everything was good, now I am down to 150mg. Could be placebo or my head playing tricks with me but the “natural” (non fully synthetic) opiates (that exist in Papaver Somniferum or gets metabolized into Morphine at least) I react to slightly better, give me better effects (when getting high off them) and idk man I just prefer them slightly for some reason.

 

[Yunai]

Morphine and heroin. I've not had either in years but spent a good 25 years dabbling between these two. Opium does get a special mention, and one day we will look back in history after all these super potent synthetic opiates come out and realize how gentle God's Own Medicine was.

I only use a little plain leaf kratom these days. I will not out of principle (and shame for so much morphine use) try 7-OH. I dont neeed to, I trust you all. Sounds like a trap too. I mean a good glass of poppy tea keeps you well for 24 hours. Sounds like some of the newer synthetic opiates are short lived and too potent.

I never tried buprenorphine. Crazy I know. I have been on MM a few times, but bupe was not an option in the 80's or 90's that I know of.

I also feel the non synthetic ones (that exist in Papaver Somniferum or at least metabolize into Morphine) are much better. Could be placebo or just my head but both for getting high (feels warmer) and for maintenance (less possible side effects like the cardio issue with Methadone that Morphine doesn’t have, just as an example). I do agree with that.

Okay, since I answered almost all of you… I guess now I gotta go to sleep soon, I added 3 options to the poll Opium and o-desmethyltramadol, and Tapentadol. There were some other opiates mentioned but I think the poll is good now. the rest are mostly RC or very unknown ones, unless an opiate not in the poll is mentioned more than once by 2 different people I will leave it as it is now!