Synthesis Rules

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jmc31337

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What are the rules on synthesis of substances on this forum?
Book lap sheets and step by step recipes permitted?
Predictive pathways i can see being cool whereas actual synthesis recipes always pose issues

Seeking rules what can be taught here? If permitted ima go on a ether binge and ethanol maceration extravaganza recipe book
 
jmc31337 said:
What are the rules on synthesis of substances on this forum?
Click to expand...

See rule #3 (this is a good ruff guide for the forum as a whole)
Forum Moderator

Forum Guidelines Thread 'Other Drugs Forum Guidelines'

Other Drugs Forum Guidelines


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Moderators: Keif' Richards, negrogesic, G_Chem

Please read the whole thing carefully!​

Welcome to the Other Drugs forum. The sole purpose of this forum is to promote harm reduction by providing accurate drug information, and specific resources for reducing harm from drug use. Please conduct yourself in a manner that is both respectful and consistent with this goal. This will be strictly enforced. Posts that have little to nothing to do with...
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jmc31337 said:
Book lap sheets and step by step recipes permitted?
Click to expand...

No see above- (anyone using the term "recipes" probably shouldn’t be making chemistry posts)
 
jmc31337 said:
What are the rules on synthesis of substances on this forum?
Book lap sheets and step by step recipes permitted?
Predictive pathways i can see being cool whereas actual synthesis recipes always pose issues

Seeking rules what can be taught here? If permitted ima go on a ether binge and ethanol maceration extravaganza recipe book
Click to expand...
Sorry about pointing out your cannabinoid topic to the mods, plz don't take it personal. There are other forums to discuss step by step methodology, molar ratios, activation temperatures etc. The issue is here on BL is, that sort of discussion, even if meant for educational purposes can spin out of control quickly and now people are posting exact instructions for synthesizing controlled substances, where/how to source specific precursors/equipment and other similar information which can lead to untrained people attempting things they shouldn't which can in turn then lead to the opposite of harm reduction ie; fires, injuries, legal problems or just unwanted attention on BL as a whole.

Mainly we talk about how to use drugs, not how to make or obtain them.

Botanical extraction/ID, non detailed overviews of different routes, general purification techniques and very basic acid/base theory have historically been allowed.

Adding x grams of Reagent A and x grams of Reagent B at x degrees for x amount of time is almost always too specific. To an extent it's up to the mods of each individual forum to decide whether a topic goes over the line.
I didn't even think CBD conversion to THC or converting between different acid salts was allowed.

Again, what starts out as innocent conversation can spiral out of control rapidly. If you have to ask yourself if this question could lead to more questions that are questionable than it's probably not a good idea.

The vespiary, science madness, hyperlab and others are great resources for people who are interested in practical chemical synthesis.
Welcome to BL though. Very good writeup I know it was a lot of work.
 
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Didgital said:
Sorry about pointing out your cannabinoid topic to the mods, plz don't take it personal. There are other forums to discuss step by step methodology, molar ratios, activation temperatures etc. The issue is here on BL is, that sort of discussion, even if meant for educational purposes can spin out of control quickly and now people are posting exact instructions for synthesizing controlled substances, where/how to source specific precursors/equipment and other similar information which can lead to untrained people attempting things they shouldn't which can in turn then lead to the opposite of harm reduction ie; fires, injuries, legal problems or just unwanted attention on BL as a whole.

Mainly we talk about how to use drugs, not how to make or obtain them.

Botanical extraction/ID, non detailed overviews of different routes, general purification techniques and very basic acid/base theory have historically been allowed.

Adding x grams of Reagent A and x grams of Reagent B at x degrees for x amount of time is almost always too specific. To an extent it's up to the mods of each individual forum to decide whether a topic goes over the line.
I didn't even think CBD conversion to THC or converting between different acid salts was allowed.

Again, what starts out as innocent conversation can spiral out of control rapidly. If you have to ask yourself if this question could lead to more questions that are questionable than it's probably not a good idea.

The vespiary, science madness, hyperlab and others are great resources for people who are interested in practical chemical synthesis.
Welcome to BL though. Very good writeup I know it was a lot of work.
Click to expand...
its cool
 
Docta said:
See rule #3 (this is a good ruff guide for the forum as a whole)
Forum Moderator

Forum Guidelines Thread 'Other Drugs Forum Guidelines'

Other Drugs Forum Guidelines


XqGD0.gif

Moderators: Keif' Richards, negrogesic, G_Chem

Please read the whole thing carefully!​

Welcome to the Other Drugs forum. The sole purpose of this forum is to promote harm reduction by providing accurate drug information, and specific resources for reducing harm from drug use. Please conduct yourself in a manner that is both respectful and consistent with this goal. This will be strictly enforced. Posts that have little to nothing to do with...
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No see above- (anyone using the term "recipes" probably shouldn’t be making chemistry posts)
Click to expand...
so maceration and extraction cool
we can just sum it all up with ether, EtOH (151 ethanol) and plants
i can macerate and extract but cant go from there to where?
thats so corny to write
if i say ie.,

i took the weed plants, soaked em in ethanol 95% and macerated the chlorophyllA/B and THCA CBDA CBGA all in that solution of green beauty

i cant go any further (i use weed because its practically legal in half america)

Can i say, now with the solution we filter, tossing out the live plant matter

can i go into say in order to make THC-O the thca oil and acetic acid bla bla bla? Citric Acid, for THC citrates

lulz
 
jmc31337 said:
so maceration and extraction cool
we can just sum it all up with ether, EtOH (151 ethanol) and plants
i can macerate and extract but cant go from there to where?
thats so corny to write
if i say ie.,

i took the weed plants, soaked em in ethanol 95% and macerated the chlorophyllA/B and THCA CBDA CBGA all in that solution of green beauty

i cant go any further (i use weed because its practically legal in half america)

Can i say, now with the solution we filter, tossing out the live plant matter

can i go into say in order to make THC-O the thca oil and acetic acid bla bla bla? Citric Acid, for THC citrates

lulz
Click to expand...
Based on your write up I'm quite sure you understand the difference between extracting a chemical compound vs chemically modifying an existing structure.
Discussing how to chemically modify an existing structure is what we're trying to avoid. Again, the forum is about using drugs safely.

You asked for clarification on what's allowed on bluelight. Not sure how to make it clearer.
 
Didgital said:
Based on your write up I'm quite sure you understand the difference between extracting a chemical compound vs chemically modifying an existing structure.
Discussing how to chemically modify an existing structure is what we're trying to avoid. Again, the forum is about using drugs safely.

You asked for clarification on what's allowed on bluelight. Not sure how to make it clearer.
Click to expand...
last question:
extraction/maceration no problem
can i take the existing cocaine extract for example, in a solution of ethanol and explain how to basify and from there how to salt it to Cocaine HCl
step by step w/ recipe

so long as we're not modifying existing cocaine molecules just changing their forms
 
jmc31337 said:
explain how to basify and from there how to salt it to Cocaine HCl
Click to expand...
As far as my interpretation of the rule that is totally fine. Salting out a freebase technically isn't creating or modifying molecule.

It is somewhat up to individual mods and their specific sub-forums. Their interpretation of what the word synthesis constitutes might be different than others. Some mods honestly don't even recognize synthesis discussion, some would allow a little more detail than others for various reasons. I am a chemist so I am pretty sensitive and can recognize it and the potential for it pretty quickly. For that reason I am a bit more strict than some. There's been times I saw a discussion evolving and a question pops up that is right on the edge. There have been times that ignored it, I've come back 6 hours later and now there are users describe the exact steps they took to make a drug.

Like if I was mod of CD, i personally wouldn't even allow conversion discussion of delta 9 THC to delta 8 THC because even though the change is minor like flipping a double bond around a ring, it is modifying and changing one drug to a different drug with different effects/receptor affinities etc.. Even a minor chemical modification can require dangerous chemicals and skills/experience doing actual chemistry.

We don't want bluelight to become a place that people come to share specific information like that because (I hope you will agree with me here) not everyone has the knowledge or capability to do certain chemistry safely or legally even if they are super enthusiastic. We also think it's a bad look and tends to attract users that are interested in only that kind of information. We really don't want the forum to be flooded with that kind of discussion because that is way beyond what harm reduction (the ultimate focus and goal of the forum) actually is. In fact it can cause serious harm in multiple different ways. That's why we limit it.

Personally I want (some) people to make their own drugs and I hope you do actually create the strange cannabinoid you designed. Once you do it, we'd love to hear any information/experience you have regarding it's effects (good and bad) and again, how to use it safely.

This is a great thread where a user designed, created, and tested completely novel drugs himself, and then shared his experiences with those drugs. I think he actually did include synthetic notes in his overall writeups, but he chose to omit those aspects on bluelight itself.
https://www.bluelight.org/community...-new-series-of-nxxx-phenylethylamines.724338/

I also posted this years ago, and though it's not the best SOP I ever wrote it's an example of what is also allowed.
negrogesic

Kratom Post in thread 'Kratom Extraction and isolation of Mitragynine'

Didgital said:
So I'm actually getting kicked out of my house for making a very similar post a while back. I developed a process to isolate Mitragynine, and my roomate was in the process of selling the process to a company for a lot of money. I didn't really feel comfortable with the situation, so I released the it online for free for everyone. I ended up deleting the posts, but i might as well repost it. Oddly I posted it in R/ Kratom and the moderators deleted the post, I suspect because they have their own kratom companies and don't want people to know this information. So I'm putting it here...
Click to expand...
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Didgital said:
Even a minor chemical modification can require dangerous chemicals and skills/experience doing actual chemistry.
Click to expand...

I’ve found it a bit of a slippery slope of late; the use of AI has made it difficult to discern if someone has chemistry experience legitimate or clandestine.
I’ve found myself getting into discussions only to realize I was talking to a keyboard chemist with no practical experience and in most cases no understanding a valence chemistry at all.

It may be time to adopt a straighter forward synthesis rule: “No Covalent Chemistry”
 
Didgital said:
As far as my interpretation of the rule that is totally fine. Salting out a freebase technically isn't creating or modifying molecule.

It is somewhat up to individual mods and their specific sub-forums. Their interpretation of what the word synthesis constitutes might be different than others. Some mods honestly don't even recognize synthesis discussion, some would allow a little more detail than others for various reasons. I am a chemist so I am pretty sensitive and can recognize it and the potential for it pretty quickly. For that reason I am a bit more strict than some. There's been times I saw a discussion evolving and a question pops up that is right on the edge. There have been times that ignored it, I've come back 6 hours later and now there are users describe the exact steps they took to make a drug.

Like if I was mod of CD, i personally wouldn't even allow conversion discussion of delta 9 THC to delta 8 THC because even though the change is minor like flipping a double bond around a ring, it is modifying and changing one drug to a different drug with different effects/receptor affinities etc.. Even a minor chemical modification can require dangerous chemicals and skills/experience doing actual chemistry.

We don't want bluelight to become a place that people come to share specific information like that because (I hope you will agree with me here) not everyone has the knowledge or capability to do certain chemistry safely or legally even if they are super enthusiastic. We also think it's a bad look and tends to attract users that are interested in only that kind of information. We really don't want the forum to be flooded with that kind of discussion because that is way beyond what harm reduction (the ultimate focus and goal of the forum) actually is. In fact it can cause serious harm in multiple different ways. That's why we limit it.

Personally I want (some) people to make their own drugs and I hope you do actually create the strange cannabinoid you designed. Once you do it, we'd love to hear any information/experience you have regarding it's effects (good and bad) and again, how to use it safely.

This is a great thread where a user designed, created, and tested completely novel drugs himself, and then shared his experiences with those drugs. I think he actually did include synthetic notes in his overall writeups, but he chose to omit those aspects on bluelight itself.
https://www.bluelight.org/community...-new-series-of-nxxx-phenylethylamines.724338/

I also posted this years ago, and though it's not the best SOP I ever wrote it's an example of what is also allowed.
negrogesic

Kratom Post in thread 'Kratom Extraction and isolation of Mitragynine'

Didgital said:
So I'm actually getting kicked out of my house for making a very similar post a while back. I developed a process to isolate Mitragynine, and my roomate was in the process of selling the process to a company for a lot of money. I didn't really feel comfortable with the situation, so I released the it online for free for everyone. I ended up deleting the posts, but i might as well repost it. Oddly I posted it in R/ Kratom and the moderators deleted the post, I suspect because they have their own kratom companies and don't want people to know this information. So I'm putting it here...
Click to expand...
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Click to expand...
👍
 
Docta said:
I’ve found it a bit of a slippery slope of late; the use of AI has made it difficult to discern if someone has chemistry experience legitimate or clandestine.
I’ve found myself getting into discussions only to realize I was talking to a keyboard chemist with no practical experience and in most cases no understanding a valence chemistry at all.

It may be time to adopt a straighter forward synthesis rule: “No Covalent Chemistry”
Click to expand...
That sounds like a balanced reaction ;)
 
Docta said:
I’ve found it a bit of a slippery slope of late; the use of AI has made it difficult to discern if someone has chemistry experience legitimate or clandestine.
I’ve found myself getting into discussions only to realize I was talking to a keyboard chemist with no practical experience and in most cases no understanding a valence chemistry at all.

It may be time to adopt a straighter forward synthesis rule: “No Covalent Chemistry”
Click to expand...
Most real chemists don't post and when they do they allude to their experience through shrouded comments that few would recognize.
 
Didgital said:
Most real chemists don't post and when they do they allude to their experience through shrouded comments that few would recognize.
Click to expand...

I agree a time existed where picking up on they: ‘Knowing their shit’ or ‘Knowing they’re shit’ was pretty easy, with the advent of AI response I’m not so sure that’s still the case.

alasdairm said:
synthesis discussion is forbidden generally under blua #14.
Click to expand...

Rules from seven years ago, that’s a long time in internet years. I guess it depends on individual content.

It’s the “forbidden generally” thing, the generally component seems to be applied with some level of plasticity by individual moderators, that’s why I suggested a simple rule (No Covalence) it has very little gray area. Leaving ionic compound/electrostatic force and purification workup’s the only allowable content. I’m putting it out there for consideration, the idea may well be useful in the future.

An example: A recent thread in Cannabis Discussion on THCA derivatives via Novel Birch (Wilds & Nelson) was allowed with all necessary hyperlinks for total synthesis. Using the information in that thread I’ve done an illustration of probable rout to (1R,2R)-PSE derivative that I doubt would get a pass even though it is fundamentally the same chemistry, and not because it infringes on Procter & Gamble’s intellectual property.

1-R-2-R-PSE.png
 
alasdairm said:
you know we can edit the contents of posts right? :)

the current terms were updated just a month or two ago.

alasdair
Click to expand...
You know they don't say anything about synthesis right? I checked before my posts in this thread and still went with it.

Some people don't realize if we allowed synthesis talk forum would be inundated with "how do i make this meth how do i make this meth how do i make this meth" Only reason BL is the amazing resource it is, is because we haven't let degenerates take over. Not counting the lounge.
 
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