Kratom MA kratom ban in effect on 8/28, only just found out today, broke and only 150g left or so. I am F U C K E D

[puke]

Hey thanks for giving deatiled updates about what ur going through. So much more helpful and interesting than just typing uh I didn't feel well so I slept etc. I haven't started my taper yet in fact have been spoiled and doing more since I bought a bunch of sacks of 7oh and just gave in and bought more, may even buy more because I've heard both 2 new stories about Kratom future. 1 that they're waiting and giving more time to people to write the positives of kratom so kinda postponed the hearing on if they're going to schedule a drug and 2 heard today that something is gonna happen within the next few days like they're gonna temp schedule it 1 while they're still giving time to write reviews or whatever people have been sending them about why it shouldn't be illegal but that doesn't really make sense why would u give people more time. Now I'm gonna rant, I strongly believe the pharm companies are involved in this because of the money they're losing and if the reason behind them making it illegal is because of kids abusing it F that why should I have to suffer because they're not parenting their kid and not teaching them to not use "gas station heroin" which is a medication, why do their kids not know better to not take medication for the sake of getting high, not my fault. The name gas station heroin pisses me off for one they don't even just sell it at gas stations, not at mine they don't, cuz it doesn't make sense. They wouldn't have enough demand at a gas station to just stock it, maybe a few regular customers plus I think it expires and actually starts to rot. Now trucker speed is what ur seeing and that at a gas station makes sense. Also the fact that they just had to package it with bright colors and looking like freaking candies it's like no shit the parents are gonna come after it now, wtf would u do something so dumb. But then number 2 I heard any scheduling discussion will be pushed off to the mid Sept but these are from random people I follow on reddit but the people I follow are all in the loop with the big AKA and people involved in this which is why I follow them, wink wink. I really am upset with myself getting hooked on this after all those years off H and methadone but it did help me with stopping drinking which will be a year next month and am happy I'm not destroying my liver everyday with 2 pints of Smirnoff and another of that disgusting fireball and falling over and needing stitches.

 

[BourbonMac]

No prob. I hope you're right, but I'm still trying here. Took 0.7g, didn't really feel better, so I took 0.5g more. Kinda not happy about that, and tbh, this might not even be withdrawals. I was driving for 24 fucking hours, my legs should be sore. I should've tried Motrin first, but I just did my Flexeril 10mg, Valium 20mg (hate that), all the Gabapentin, like 20mg of Trazodone (I have no fuckin idea how people take even half of one, I black out from this). I hope to God I can get some sleep tonight. It's way too late, bout to do a sesh with some Wedding Cake and hope I feel tingly and relaxed. Haven't smoked in weeks though, so who knows how this is about to go.

I mostly skimmed this, but I'll probably come back to say more and update more and stuff. I kinda feel like, a light kratom buzz from that 1.2g, so perhaps it wasn't withdrawals? I don't fuckin know lol. I hate this. Dehydration can do the same thing to me. It's just my legs, real wds I have restless full body.

Even if this was postponed till like, mid-September, I don't get another YouTube check till the 21st-25th... fucking hate not having a job. I'm not some big YTber or anything, it just makes me a couple hundred bucks once in awhile. This weed fucked me up though, damn.

 

[chippermonk]

Well, to be honest, I can't quite keep a clear picture of what all and how much for the various substances you are taking but there could be some interactions between them all factoring in, and maybe you have some withdrawals from some of them in the mix.
But regardless, it takes a long time for those neurotransmitters to reset, even if you quit completely, which you haven't ( though you cut back hugely, congratulations!). I'm not expert here, but maybe continuing with 1.2g or .7 is just prolonging the neurotransmitter reset, the return of your mind and body to normal. You've gotten your dosage well below what it was but I think you'd have to be clean and dry for a pretty long time ( months?) before you'd feel a dose like that at all, coming from a heavier habit. You are tickling and teasing your neurotransmitters without actually taking enough to satisfy them, and they get tricked into thinking that you will give them more as in the past, yet you don't , so you feel like shit. At this point I think you are just prolonging your suffering.

 

[BourbonMac]

It's hard for me to really tell what was what. I just went with 2.4g today, guess I'll restart from here. I actually did feel that 1.2g, surprisingly a bit awhile after the half g. I just kinda wish I'd waited before I took some mini dose to see if it'd help. I don't know if it did that much, because once I got unbelievably stoned, I was just like holy fucking shit my tolerance is gone, I felt all tingly and nice, then before I know it I'm falling off my bed passing out.

I might feel light withdrawals now (always starts with fatigue, so oftentimes it's hard to get out of bed). It'll take some time for the dose to kick in, but I think I do. Either way, I'm back around where I had been before I'd felt any, so I'll titrate down more from here so that I don't have to just take more Gabapentin like that. I just needed sleep so fucking bad and had to secure it. I'll avoid 2400mg Gabapentin tonight, probably. Trazodone alone is honestly more than enough, like I can't understand how people take full 50mg of this. I got so fucked up by that alone.

Valium really does almost nothing to me now, and I honestly just have wanted off of it because I know it gets rid of some of the magic feelings of being stoned off good bud, something I noticed prior to when I'd take it hours after. I'd been titrating off this pretty well months back, then my dose just kinda got fucked by this weird skin problem of feeling all itchy, I'd take a Valium to try to get to sleep (it can at least make me a bit tired and calm) but it tended to not really work and end up being a waste.

Coming off Gabapentin is easy for me, but I'd need to go back on 300mg tablets, not 400 to really get this where I want. Going from 800 to 400 would be weird compared to 900 to 600. Flexeril I never even take, but that alone probably would've done enough. Guess I'll just find out, I'm willing to see what a little more suffering will do at this point because I slept like 10 fucking hours.

Anyway, sucky setback, but not too huge I guess... if it's below 2.5, that's good. I just shouldn't have tried to speedrun getting that right to 2g flat, let alone under these circumstances. I can't even believe how much weed fucked me up and also just straight up made me feel calm and happy and relaxed about everything. I should've just started from there. It's great to have a way lower tolerance, because it was getting a bit up there to where I'd be smoking a half gram a night.

Rookie shit for some people, but I have a naturally low tolerance, but my ceiling was getting lower too, so I wasn't able to usually get so high I'd just feel like my brain got sucked out or so extremely calm like that. Would've needed a joint to the face, and I try to just stick to water. This was before the meds (besides Gabapentin) could've even helped. It seems like I only felt that 1.2g a bit just after smoking.

I've had otherwise thoughts of just allowing my body to suffer through withdrawals during the day, then only taking kratom doses at bedtime. This COULD work, I just have to be willing to deal with the wds during the day, which I guess could be tough depending on how active I might be. I like to take really long walks for instance, 5 miles on average in the evenings, at least when it's summery, not as much when it's freezing in November.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah, I think this did set me back. I don't really feel relief from the 2.4... though, nowadays it tends to take quite a bit longer for kratom to actually give me any effects. It used to be within 15-20 minutes, nowadays it's like 45-60. If I'm really dragging, I usually feel nothing or it makes me get this hangover feeling if I'm sleep deprived. I'm not really, but I took a load of shit last night. Trazodone alone already will give me a bad hangover if I take more than usual, and this was nearly half a pill.

Edit: God DAMMIT. WHY did I think the speedrun taper was a good idea. I get that I had to secure sleep last night, but even though I feel this dose a bit, I still feel a degree of restlessness. It's just really hard to fucking tell because I'm tired enough to still fall asleep, there's just still a sort of restless feeling in my arms and legs. If I redosed any, I'd end up back at 3g after finally having dropped it to 2.5 to begin with. God. Dammit.

It's not like this would be that big of a problem, but still. I was proud to get it down to consistently 2.5 being fine, now I'll have to be taking 3g I think. It's just so damn hard to tell... if I feel the effects at all and still feel some degree of restlessness, it shouldn't be kratom withdrawal, but I know it is... That stunt I pulled last night was stupid. The pills would've been enough to keep me asleep no question.

I either redose just to tell right now, or I repeat something similar tonight and see how I get through it. God dammit, I can't allow myself to redose, I just can't. Maybe I'm mistaking withdrawal with my joints being tired, I just don't know. I'm exhausted after taking that dose and could sleep right now, so I again just don't know. I just cannot allow myself to do this.

If anything, the whole "deal with withdrawals during the day" idea is probably best right now and then I just take a dose at night. This way, I could get away with lowering it even further, I'd just feel shitty during the day, oh well. I just seriously can't tell, my body is so exhausted everywhere that it could mimic restlessness without being that. I'm not redosing... no way. I can't let myself do that. If I've felt this dose at all, it seriously should not be withdrawals, and even that little "tease" last night shouldn't have messed anything up because that was a once only thing of basically just 1g. If I knew I was dealing with actual withdrawals there, and I'm like 95% sure I was, a dose that small shouldn't have even helped much compared to all the shit I took.

Guess I'll find out through Gabapentin tonight. If I suddenly feel less fatigue or restless, that'll be the answer, I guess. I could literally just pass the fuck out right now regardless.

 

[FlouroAcytelated]

Hi Keif ,when you say Buprenorphine is easy to access, is that via a prescription in US/Canada

Buprenorphine is extremely easy to access via apps/telehealth in the US... I am unsure of Canada. I'm on medicaid and literally pay $0 for suboxone treatment. Quite literally as easy as downloading an app.... I highly recommend Boulder Care app... probably unavailable in Canada, but I had a suboxone script written within 90 min of downloading that app at zero cost. No in person visit required. No upfront or regular drug test required. They make you take a Urinalysis every 6 months but it only checks for bupe in your system, they don't even drug test for anything else.

It's EXTREMELY easy to access and convenient.

If you have no insurance at all, you can still get it from QuickMD. Just as easy, but its $99 per month, not including the prescription cost.

 

[BourbonMac]

What if I start taking black seed oil? This is a potentiator is the only problem, people use it FOR withdrawals. Also, oddly enough, after taking my evening niacin to help with tinnitus, I don't really feel restless anymore, nor as much fatigue. I'm on fucking fire holy shit, only took 400mg of the flush version when I usually would take 500-700, where the hell is this coming from???

I noticed for months that when I was taking higher doses of kratom, I'd only ever feel the buzz hours later once I took my niacin. There seems to be some interaction there.

 

[BourbonMac]

yyyeah... kinda fucked up here. If I were to say dose 0.5g later, I'd have to see what the other stuff can do for me first. I seriously doubt that basically 1g I took really made the difference. Once I got blasted, I was feeling such a heavy body high, head high, just stupid. If anything, me "feeling" that dose was all the Gabapentin just kicking in.

Either way, I'd have to start back at near 3g tomorrow and work my way back down. I still have nigella sativa (black seed oil extract) powder but it might be a bit expired. The shit was always mega potent, so using a potentiator to deal with withdrawals I'm not sure would be counterproductive or not.

I'll still try not to cave either way. I do have a restless feeling, but I'm also tired enough to get at least some sleep most likely, since I walked quite a bit and all my feelings of restlessness went away during that. Went to pick up more weed while I was out when I could've just chosen kratom instead. I had to go with what I truly wanted more. Grabbed some shit called Fluffhead but maybe should've gone with the Space Center with its more sedative terpenes and Indica genetics.

It's still strange how during that intense niacin flush, all these feelings went away.

Edit: it's 12:28am now, I suddenly do feel quite a bit better, probably the Gabapentin helping? Who knows. That fatigue where I could've probably fallen asleep has lifted and I don't exactly feel so restless. I just don't wanna end up in a trap with Gabapentin because the withdrawals are the exact same for me basically, so I might end up all confused on what's what at some point.

Man, if only this ban was a month from now. I would've been so far down on the Gabapentin by now and had more time to not worry about speedrunning a taper.

and nowww... 1:21am, I have the "gaba giddies." This makes my legs naturally bouncy and excited feeling, which kinda overrides the restlessness, but also maybe is adding to it? Fuck, I can't even tell anymore, but I'm not taking that half G... I have to see where I get with the others, as shitty as it seems. I need and do want to get off kratom, I've literally been waiting for a ban, I just wanted it to happen when I had a lot more.

 

[Opana313]

"Midway upon the journey of our life
I found myself within a forest dark,
For the straightforward pathway had been lost." - Dante's Inferno

What a mess over such a thing 2g but not unheard of.

Bro you got to get out of your own head. I am not trying to be rude or unhelpful. Music really helps, I also feel too much screen time while going through withdrawals ramps depression up way more.

But you can see as each day passes, how you assess this whole process and navigating pain, irritability, and a flock of emotions(notice you seem to have a bit of a handle now as time passes each day.)

This is a thing, I think I vent and bitch the most before I run out of oxy, or the 1st and 2nd day is miserable ..you said it yourself that your not sure if its WD or just restlessness at times, but yeah can get confusing when you are extremely tired yet feeding yourself with gabapentin, valium, flexoral...shit man gaba, Lyrica, and phenibut all give me crazy restless legs, it's not helping with that, magnesium and potassium will help or whats it called st john wort?

Believe me or not but you're doing very well. You are sitting pretty normal despite being broke, but imagine if you were me and do not have scripts for anything, just as broke if not even more..you are literally sitting on valium and have buds. You can do this shit dude. Feel the friction that is presented to you in your living experience.

Now I'm going to hit you with my favorite band quotes.


"This fog is thick and easy to get lost in; Why don't you get out while you can?"- Tool


"We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment, but I am choosing to be here, right now."- Tool

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Not a kratom user, but just lost my buprenorphine doctor & my benzo doctor.
So I am absolutely fucked & ready to die.

Buprenorphine is an option, but I'd say avoid it. It's got a half-life of 30-60 hours. People on kratom or 7-oh are just jumping from one short acting partial agonist, to incredibly potent partial agonist that has weeks/months long withdrawals.

I was on bupe for 10 years almost. The withdrawals are a little more mild, but they are relentless & never ending.

Bupe sucks ass for pain by the way. It's got an intrinsic activity of like 40% or lower. This means it only activates your receptors about 40%.
So yeah there'll be some slight pain relief & even a mood lift if your tolerance is low. But it disappears faster than any other opioid I've ever tried.

I guess it depends, are you looking to get off opioids entirely or do you want to stay on them & find a different opioid?

I know it's cliche, but if you have a doctor & you deal with pain, you should mention it & keep at it. There are doctors out there willing to listen & who haven't been brainwashed by the anti-opioid brigade. If you have nothing left to lose, it's always worth a shot.

This war on medicine is destroying people's lives & nobody gives a fuck.

The orange clown in the WH bombs boats & kills people because "fentanyl bad". I dunno how the fuck anyone can turn this into a "left or right" issue or would even want to. Yeah the Christian Nationalists in power really give a fuck about us poor folks who need pain medicine,.

At this point, I'm hoping for death. I can't give any false hope & say things will be okay, cause they just keep getting worse for me. I'm sorry you're going through all of this too. I wish there was more we could do to wake people up. Maybe we all need to get together & take the to streets in protest. I dunno anymore, but people in pain don't have years/decades to wait for things to change, we need change NOW.

 

[thurston]

Yeah, cry and say you are going to kill yourself again for attention. Good luck, with your miserable life,lol

You have been threatening to kill yourself since 2023 and probably before it,lol. Whatever; you are just a sad excuse for a human like, being.

Please, bourbanmac, stop wasting everyone's time and cry somewhere else.

Oh, I am sorry; are you going to cry some more. Wow, you are a sorry excuse for a, 'man', lol.

What, you have been threatening suicide and crying about misery; yet you refuse to change.

You are hopeless. One way or another you are the ' Boy Who Cried Wolf' and we all know it.

You have no money , but are on vacation? You have to be joking.

You spew rage; but you refuse to accept reality. ???????? Yeah, you are a pathetic hopeless sad sack of shit.

What, are you going to cry about next? I am almost about ready to money, on that one,lol.

Go back to Reddit we don't want your kind here.

 

[FlouroAcytelated]

What if I start taking black seed oil? This is a potentiator is the only problem, people use it FOR withdrawals.

BSO is really a highly overstated potentiator of kratom. In fact it would generally cause me to have more side effects when combined with kratom and enjoy my dose even less.

It's much more useful as a tapering agent IMO over a potentiator or for acute withdrawals.

Also, be a little careful with BSO. It is an extremely potent CYP inhibitor. If I take BSO for a couple days , then dose 30mg of DXM it will feel like I took 150mg, which is not desirable for me. It does thing to your liver, kinda like grapefruit juice on crack.

 

[BourbonMac]

BSO potentiates it so bad for me that once when I was taking higher doses, I cut it in half and took 3g and was fucked up for almost 12 hours. So much of a potentiator I straight up avoided it, that's why I thought it would be bad here, especially if I don't want a buzz to tempt me. I took 2.4g again today and feel a buzz for sure, but it still seems like I feel a bit restless? I honestly don't get how that could even be the case unless I'm psyching myself out.

But...

I actually can't believe the mods haven't banned Jnowhere. I didn't even see that message until now, wow. That alone would be a perma ban on just about any forum I could think of.

I weathered the withdrawals overnight, so I should be okay from here going forward. Like I said before, everyone's body is different. Some people can jump ship from here; I'm not one of those people at all.

Anyway, well, seeya later... thanks for the people who were cool here, but I have no place on this forum if it's going to run like this. I'd like for a mod or admin to erase this entire thread, let alone Jnowhere.

 

[tryptakid]

I actually can't believe the mods haven't banned that dude. I didn't even see that message until now, wow.

I weathered the withdrawals overnight, so I should be okay from here going forward. Like I said before, everyone's body is different. Some people can jump ship from here; I'm not one of those people at all.

Anyway, well, seeya later... thanks for the people who were cool here, but I have no place on this forum if it's going to run like this. I'd like for a mod or admin to erase this entire thread, let alone Jnowhere.

Glad you're doing alright. Hang in there champ, it's only better from here.

If @Jnowhere bothers you again, let me know.

 

[BourbonMac]

Kinda already did, seeing as how I hadn't seen that post. Jesus Christ, I can't believe how heartless he is.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

Anyone else in this boat? Even if I finally reduced my dose to 3g, I've taken 3.5g the past like, 4 days and it's been rocking my shit. I still feel the dose I took 12 hours ago, so now I'm like fuck. I'll go right back to 3g tomorrow and guess I have to force taper down, hit 2.5, 2.4, 2.3, just gradual. If I do this, should I be able to come off without any withdrawals?

I'm so flustered and panicking. I've taken this daily for 9 years at various doses that used to be very high, like 15g a day (for me that's ridiculous) or this period of like, 25g, but that was a MAJOR bunk batch considering I got some other shit, took 4g and was fucked up. I never even felt that bunk shit.

I'm on vacation too, I don't even get back till the 25th and literally have no money, tf do I do??? I'm fine with the fully taper off idea, but kratom does have legit use in my life as like, an as needed pain med and I don't really use it for recreation anymore like I used to. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. I hate you, Healey, and I'm a leftist...

I just want some kind of comfort, some kind of "you'll be just fine" kind of comment, I don't even know. I plan to taper this down to literally a gram or half gram and then jump ship, but I have to do 3g for probably the next 2 days based on the increase lately, then I'll begin to get it down to 2.5 and below. THIS FUCKING SUCKS! I was in the process of tapering off my Gabapentin here, I didn't fucking know about this, when the fuck was this shit announced? Yesterday?

That's what it seems like to me. Now I have to increase the Gabapentin back some too??? I FINALLY got it back down to 1200mg and soon to be 900mg where it's extremely easy to taper in my experience, I've done it multiple times. I'd say this time it might be harder because 1600mg for a year is a lot but I used to just go crazy sometimes and take 3g for recreation. I don't really like how it feels anymore, so I never do that.

Hi BourbonMac, I didn’t read your whole post because my vision is not that great at the moment,,,but since you were talking about grams Im assuming you use leaf Kratom powder ? If so you have nothing to worry about because leaf is not included in the government Schedule 1 ,which was PASSED last night. It’s three compounds which include 7oh (Google it),it popped up on my Google feed this morning,,,The article mentioned OPMS specifically so maybe the Black liquid shots are history too,they contain 7oh…

I ordered some this morning just to see what the big deals about,they had a buy 1 and get 2 packages free ,,,,80mg..

 

[BourbonMac]

I wish you were right, but plain leaf kratom is in fact also being banned in effect as of tomorrow, it's not just extracts. Whatever article you read sounds like it's misleading, because yeah, this does apply to it unfortunately. Especially for the people who use it genuinely, like those who have chronic pain disorders and didn't wanna keep taking pills, people coming off harder opioid addictions in general, etc.

The article you read is banning MGPI, MGM-15 and MGM-16 on a federal level in all 50 states. These don't contain 7-oh, it's just related. Kinda got my hopes up there for a sec... but you did mention vision issues at the moment, so you probably didn't see that I'm from MA where plain leaf is being banned.

Anyway, according to Mass.gov: "Department of Public Health Commissioner Robbie Goldstein, MD, PhD, has issued an emergency order temporarily placing all forms of kratom into Schedule I under Massachusetts law." - Source

God, how the hell can I feel a buzz from this AND feel withdrawals still? I don't think I'm psyching myself out either, because if I go to lay down, I still feel the restlessness. It's like I just got a buzz but it wasn't actually enough to take care of the withdrawals fully.

Maybe I should've just started from 2.8 and gone lower, I just really don't fucking wanna do that... I'd like to believe that I can sleep just fine tonight the same way. I didn't exactly even feel a buzz yesterday when I took it. Probably from the traveling fatigue and shit.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

I wish you were right, but plain leaf kratom is in fact also being banned in effect as of tomorrow, it's not just extracts. Whatever article you read sounds like it's misleading, because yeah, this does apply to it unfortunately. Especially for the people who use it genuinely, like those who have chronic pain disorders and didn't wanna keep taking pills, people coming off harder opioid addictions in general, etc.

The article you read is banning MGPI, MGM-15 and MGM-16 on a federal level in all 50 states. These don't contain 7-oh, it's just related. Kinda got my hopes up there for a sec... but you did mention vision issues at the moment, so you probably didn't see that I'm from MA where plain leaf is being banned.

Anyway, according to Mass.gov: "Department of Public Health Commissioner Robbie Goldstein, MD, PhD, has issued an emergency order temporarily placing all forms of kratom into Schedule I under Massachusetts law." - Source

God, how the hell can I feel a buzz from this AND feel withdrawals still? I don't think I'm psyching myself out either, because if I go to lay down, I still feel the restlessness. It's like I just got a buzz but it wasn't actually enough to take care of the withdrawals fully.

Maybe I should've just started from 2.8 and gone lower, I just really don't fucking wanna do that... I'd like to believe that I can sleep just fine tonight the same way. I didn't exactly even feel a buzz yesterday when I took it. Probably from the traveling fatigue and shit.

Take a peek

Google Search

 

[puke]

Not a kratom user, but just lost my buprenorphine doctor & my benzo doctor.
So I am absolutely fucked & ready to die.

Buprenorphine is an option, but I'd say avoid it. It's got a half-life of 30-60 hours. People on kratom or 7-oh are just jumping from one short acting partial agonist, to incredibly potent partial agonist that has weeks/months long withdrawals.

I was on bupe for 10 years almost. The withdrawals are a little more mild, but they are relentless & never ending.

Bupe sucks ass for pain by the way. It's got an intrinsic activity of like 40% or lower. This means it only activates your receptors about 40%.
So yeah there'll be some slight pain relief & even a mood lift if your tolerance is low. But it disappears faster than any other opioid I've ever tried.

I guess it depends, are you looking to get off opioids entirely or do you want to stay on them & find a different opioid?

I know it's cliche, but if you have a doctor & you deal with pain, you should mention it & keep at it. There are doctors out there willing to listen & who haven't been brainwashed by the anti-opioid brigade. If you have nothing left to lose, it's always worth a shot.

This war on medicine is destroying people's lives & nobody gives a fuck.

The orange clown in the WH bombs boats & kills people because "fentanyl bad". I dunno how the fuck anyone can turn this into a "left or right" issue or would even want to. Yeah the Christian Nationalists in power really give a fuck about us poor folks who need pain medicine,.

At this point, I'm hoping for death. I can't give any false hope & say things will be okay, cause they just keep getting worse for me. I'm sorry you're going through all of this too. I wish there was more we could do to wake people up. Maybe we all need to get together & take the to streets in protest. I dunno anymore, but people in pain don't have years/decades to wait for things to change, we need change NOW.

What other docs won't prescribe to u for addiction reasons?

 

[BourbonMac]

Take a peek

Google Search

Wdym take a peek? Oh, I couldn't see the link you showed because of the color I have the site. That's 7oh, not kratom, but kratom plain leaf is still being banned.