Opioids Morphine IR questions

[ThePurpleMan]

Try snorting 30mgs than another 30 in about an hour -- hour and a half if you wanna be safe.

oral morphine is garbage and snorted works better for most people IME --- worst that happens is it ends up going down your throat and you end up getting it orally?

Take a benadryl with the second 30 mgs -- that was always part of my ritual.

Check out some trip reports on morphine, most ppl dont feel a good buzz till up near 60-100 mg's oral.......I remember being able to feel snorting a 30 though so I would start there. Should be roughly equivalent to 10mg's IV which is a common dose for
intolerant users.

you do not NEED a needle to experience a morphine high, a morphine rush, sure ... it is just a matter of finding the right amount. It is a more subtle buzz than say alcohol or mushrooms -- if you smoke pot definitely smoke some pot with it. Even when I was dependent I would not use unless I had some weed.

Yeah, will do that next time.
The thing I just find funny, dont know if I ever said it yet.
Years ago (Like 3 years or more ago), never touched any opioids, and someone I just met, was prescribed Morphine, and I asked if I could try some, so she gave me 2x10mg.
I went home, took these 2x10mg at once, and I was out of it, like nodding off, feeling like if I fell asleep now, I would probably die from not breathing, and it was like that for the full 4 hours or so, all taken orally.
Since then I have always wanted to get that feeling again, just not that strong, but the euporia of it was crazy, but now I am taking 40mgs and dont get that feeling, im just so confused.

Same with Codeine, we got some OTC you can buy where I live, where its mixed with asprin 500mg + Codeine 9,6mg.
So I bought them, took 4 of these at once (You are allowed to take 2 at once normally), and I got so high, and it hit me in the middle of a meeting, so I was happy and everything, joked and all that fun stuff, and when I got home I was laughing at the ceiling for the whole time.
So when I was prescribed Codeine before these Morphine IR, I never got that experience at all, even at 200 mg.

Is that normal, that you only once have this amazing high and never again?

Also, what about Promethazine?

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

promethazine is an antihistamine and will produce slightly better effects than benadryl -- carries a heavier risk too though. (See lean overdoses)

No an opiate high is not a one time experience at all. I don't know of any drug that is really.......first hit of crack maybe but I never hit crack so I can't say.

2 10's made you nod before and you still have no tolerance..... hmmm I see why you are treading with caution man!!

Be safe, dont use alone, keep someone with narcan near? I mean it sucks but it works and if your body is sensitive or hit and miss..... idk I dont wanna give any dangerous advice.

 

[ThePurpleMan]

promethazine is an antihistamine and will produce slightly better effects than benadryl -- carries a heavier risk too though. (See lean overdoses)

No an opiate high is not a one time experience at all. I don't know of any drug that is really.......first hit of crack maybe but I never hit crack so I can't say.

2 10's made you nod before and you still have no tolerance..... hmmm I see why you are treading with caution man!!

Be safe, dont use alone, keep someone with narcan near? I mean it sucks but it works and if your body is sensitive or hit and miss..... idk I dont wanna give any dangerous advice.

Yeah, it's really fucked, that's why I go slowly
Btw, I was thinking, I saw people when they did Tramadol, that they put the pills on water, and then drink it when the pills are fully dissolved.
Would that just be the same bioavailability as taking it orally, or does it somehow change it? Just curious.

 

[4DQSAR]

@ThePurpleMan - I noted that in the UK at least, morphine is rare on the street but even when it is, it isn't particularly valuable.

I've read that in Australsia where H costs so much that one trick 'cooks' use is to convert morphine sulfate into morphine hydrochloride which apparently reduces the onset time.

But I strongly suggest that one reason why morphine is still regarded as 'the gold standard' is that unless a person is physically dependent then only IV produces even slightly euphoric effects and when physical dependence take hold, what users 'feel' as increased euphoria is mostly the AWS symptoms being abolished.

I have seen various pills, capsules and oral solutions and the commonality was that it seemed to end up as a DLR i.e. an addict would rather spend a day trying to make the £10 for a bag than to buy £5 of M which technically is just as potent.

That isn't to say you shouldn't treat M as an extremely dangerous drug. I know that in a 1970s (?) study, a cohort of opiate addicts were set up with a PCA apparatus one using H, the other M. Since PCAs provide slow infustion, the cohort was unable to tell the difference. Obviously less H was used but I thought it interesting that in controlled condictions, the only differences H offers is a flash and being more potent, a tendency to fewer side-effects.

But take away that fast onset and the two are essentially the same.

A few patents outline how adding pH buffers increases the water solubility of M but I think that's the third thing and the one the study didn't identify. H is far more water-soluble which lends itself to smaller volumes of carrier and so that flash.

But in truth, I have yet to hear ONE story about opioid use with a happy ending. Some people recover, some die. Those are the two outcomes and those that recover realize they lost decades of their lives to being on a 27/7 'mission' to get the £ to get the gear to use the gear and repeat. I mean these people usually spent 16 hours a day supporting a £30/day habit...

 

[ThePurpleMan]

promethazine is an antihistamine and will produce slightly better effects than benadryl -- carries a heavier risk too though. (See lean overdoses)

No an opiate high is not a one time experience at all. I don't know of any drug that is really.......first hit of crack maybe but I never hit crack so I can't say.

2 10's made you nod before and you still have no tolerance..... hmmm I see why you are treading with caution man!!

Be safe, dont use alone, keep someone with narcan near? I mean it sucks but it works and if your body is sensitive or hit and miss..... idk I dont wanna give any dangerous advice.

The only difference from back then, is of course I was a little younger, and that I weighed 121kg (around there), but as far as I hear, weight and morphine isn't really gonna change the strength of it.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I wouldnt call my story a happy ending and alot of ppl around me died --- yea no he has a fair point.

none the less I regret nothing lol

That is all IV usage though -- Quick question, anyone here ever know anyone who died (unintentionally, hospice dont count) on oral or insufflated morphine and what kind of dosage was that? Clearly it can happen .... I think the risk is FAIRLY low. Being a harm reduction site to undersell that risk would be wrong though. Check some experience/trip reports

-- everything in my brain and gut says youll be fine snorting 2 30's an hour apart and nausea is about the biggest risk. But I am just some random fuck on the internet trying help you thread the needle between "Not feeling it" and "dead"

(Dead doesnt need airquotes but im leaving em lol)

 

[4DQSAR]

Amazing to think that in the WHB book 'Junkie' he states that a £2 cap should be half a grain i.e. ≈32.5mg and at that time a lot of users got into it because 10mg styrettes meant for battlefield trauma kits were being stolen by dock-workers.

So an entire generation began using needles as that was the ROA they were used to and probably the only way a mere ≈32.5mg would do much of anything.

As WSB discusses and later in David McMillan's excellent autobiography 'Unforgiving Destiny', USERS seem to agree that junk is only enjoyed by the junkie i.e. the 'high' is really nothing special. It only feels amazing if for the hour before you take it you feel like you are dying. A Swedish friend/dealer/user honestly couldn't understand what the point was UNLESS you were physically dependent.

That's my theory of why fentanyl is accepted when nothing else is available. If someone is VERY sick, even fentanyl makes them feel relatively good. Not objectively good, only relatively.

The 'old days' where clinicians hadn't figured out how to score opioids were euphoric opioids also considered the most effective. It wasn't that they controlled the pain better than alternatives but even in non-dependent patients they produced that detatched euphoria which meant in trials they consistantly appeared to be far more effective.

Every nation has a DLR opioid where that detached euphoria is seen as a key element. Palliative care mostly.

But go back to the late 1950s to the late 1960s and a HUGE number of semi-synthetic or synthetic opioids that were highly euphoric all appeared. Dextromoramide (Palfium), Dipipanone (Diconal), Bezitramide (Bugodin), oxymorphone, peritramide (Dipidolar), ketobemidone (Ketogan) and so on and so forth.

Janssen BRAGGED that they had an opioid for every need and since a lot of their work was derived from Hoescht's work while it was part of IG Farben, they weren't the only ones to discover that Nazi patents were invalid so why not patent them yourself?

Note all are from around x2M to around x10M. It wasn't as if more potent examples weren't known, they just didn't score as well.

Oh, and almost to a man their oral bioavailability was LOW but in every case their original trials involved IV injections but the makers never stopped to consider that while 20mg of oral oxymorphone in a 12 hour SR formulation isn't much, 20 mg IV is quite a different matter.

Are there more examples with this range of potency? Well, I suppose U-47700 was the last example that is well known but I remain shocked that nobody has looked at 2-methyl Buccinazine, looked at para nitro azaprocin (Wikipedia image wrong - it's the acetyl amide for the para nitro) and maybe built a Dreiding model... Because that should be about x2 M. I don't say 'good' and certainly not 'safe', merely wondering just who now chooses what RCs to sell because it doesn't look as if 3DQSAR analysis is being carried out any more... Because that's 2 steps so low potency shouldn't make it impractical.

But no, self-styled 'experts' claim an opioid never tested in man is 'more potent than carfentanil' because in rodent models of analgesia, it's more potent. The thing is, a rat can't say 'well my tail doesn't hurt but I'm suffering waking nightmares and I've developed myoclonus'. Rat's can't provide QUALITATIVE information!

 

[ThePurpleMan]

Yeah, fuck this morphine.
At 60mg, snorted the first 30mg, waited half an hour, snorted 15mg, and took the last 15mg orally.

I didn't get any real kind of high at all, all I am left with is an insane amount of nausea. I think imma just stick with my trusty Lyrica instead of these opioids.

@4DQSAR @notsmokeymcpot42088
Thanks for all the help you guys, imma out away the morphine and return to my good old trusty friend Lyrica.

 

[paranoid android]

@ThePurpleMan - I noted that in the UK at least, morphine is rare on the street but even when it is, it isn't particularly valuable.

I've read that in Australsia where H costs so much that one trick 'cooks' use is to convert morphine sulfate into morphine hydrochloride which apparently reduces the onset time.

But I strongly suggest that one reason why morphine is still regarded as 'the gold standard' is that unless a person is physically dependent then only IV produces even slightly euphoric effects and when physical dependence take hold, what users 'feel' as increased euphoria is mostly the AWS symptoms being abolished.

I have seen various pills, capsules and oral solutions and the commonality was that it seemed to end up as a DLR i.e. an addict would rather spend a day trying to make the £10 for a bag than to buy £5 of M which technically is just as potent.

That isn't to say you shouldn't treat M as an extremely dangerous drug. I know that in a 1970s (?) study, a cohort of opiate addicts were set up with a PCA apparatus one using H, the other M. Since PCAs provide slow infustion, the cohort was unable to tell the difference. Obviously less H was used but I thought it interesting that in controlled condictions, the only differences H offers is a flash and being more potent, a tendency to fewer side-effects.

But take away that fast onset and the two are essentially the same.

A few patents outline how adding pH buffers increases the water solubility of M but I think that's the third thing and the one the study didn't identify. H is far more water-soluble which lends itself to smaller volumes of carrier and so that flash.

But in truth, I have yet to hear ONE story about opioid use with a happy ending. Some people recover, some die. Those are the two outcomes and those that recover realize they lost decades of their lives to being on a 27/7 'mission' to get the £ to get the gear to use the gear and repeat. I mean these people usually spent 16 hours a day supporting a £30/day habit...

Morphine is my opiate of choice actually. I shoot it or just eat the mscontins that i get.

Yeah, fuck this morphine.
At 60mg, snorted the first 30mg, waited half an hour, snorted 15mg, and took the last 15mg orally.

I didn't get any real kind of high at all, all I am left with is an insane amount of nausea. I think imma just stick with my trusty Lyrica instead of these opioids.

@4DQSAR @notsmokeymcpot42088
Thanks for all the help you guys, imma out away the morphine and return to my good old trusty friend Lyrica.

Try 50mg's oral then pop some lyrica about a hour later. Lyrica, a antihistamine and morphine really makes you nod. I just took some mscontin and gabapentin and im high as fuck

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Morphine is my opiate of choice too -- it is the gold bar for good reason. I mean id prefer regulated heroin but ....

Lyrica disagrees with me horribly.

To each they own - glad ya found your buzz. Be safe

 

[paranoid android]

Morphine is my opiate of choice too -- it is the gold bar for good reason. I mean id prefer regulated heroin but ....

Lyrica disagrees with me horribly.

To each they own - glad ya found your buzz. Be safe

True story i almost got prescrbed heroin. My doc had tried me on morphine and dilaudid but was still getting pain. Then she said how about diamorphine? She was a english doctor she had a very english aaccent ad they still prescribe diamorphine over there. However its been off te market here sadly since 98

I got scripted dilaudid again instead so wasent a total loss

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Damn -- yea dilaudid is a great rush and all but as my only opiate.... No thanks.i Duration too short.

That is wild you were offered diamorphine -- so would you have had to travel to get it?

Ps ultimate opiate shot, dilly for the rush, H for the buzz, morphine just for the pins and needles and to add to the legs. Only did it once because morphine usually required prep and when you got dilly and H in water, how much more is the morphine really adding I suppose

 

[paranoid android]

Damn -- yea dilaudid is a great rush and all but as my only opiate.... No thanks.i Duration too short.

That is wild you were offered diamorphine -- so would you have had to travel to get it?

Ps ultimate opiate shot, dilly for the rush, H for the buzz, morphine just for the pins and needles and to add to the legs. Only did it once because morphine usually required prep and when you got dilly and H in water, how much more is the morphine really adding I suppose

Ya dilly is great but the problem is how short it lasts. When i was hooked on the hydromorph contins realy bad i would get sick just 4 hours after my last shot. So ya not the best to maintain on. Now im not addicted to opiates aymore so now i wouldnt turn it down

There was no way to get diamorphine in Canada by then. That was like maybe 2008 and t had been off the market since 98. But she didnt know that untl she looked it up. It's still on the market and used alot in england so i guess she thought it would be the same here

 

[ThePurpleMan]

Morphine is my opiate of choice actually. I shoot it or just eat the mscontins that i get.



Try 50mg's oral then pop some lyrica about a hour later. Lyrica, a antihistamine and morphine really makes you nod. I just took some mscontin and gabapentin and im high as fuck

How many mgs of Lyrica would you recommend, and how many for mg of antihistamine?
Might try the morphine again sometime, and I was on the mscontin before this IR morphine, but yeah, didn't feel much from 20mg of mscontin, but did feel more from them than IR if we talk nodding.

Morphine is my opiate of choice too -- it is the gold bar for good reason. I mean id prefer regulated heroin but ....

Lyrica disagrees with me horribly.

To each they own - glad ya found your buzz. Be safe

I am just tired that morphine doesn't work great for me, yesterday was the first time I ended up puking from the morphine, and that damn nausea kept being there even after the drug should be out of my body.

I thought Oxycodone or just all Oxys was the gold standard.

 

[4DQSAR]

I thought Oxycodone or just all Oxys was the gold standard.

Oxycodone is now preferred because it's one of the few strong opioids that are MORE active orally than if consumed via a parentheral route.

Now I AM aware that some people were misusing the tablets but while we always knew that ≈10% of any oral dose undergoes first-pass metabolism by the liver to oxymorphone, an opioid an order of magnitude more potent than oxycodone, for decades woozling saw researchers cite the same old reference that stated that the oxymorphone metabolite took no part in the analgesic activity of oxycodone.

But in the last decade researchers have tested this axiom using newer technologies such as knockout mice who lack the CYP2D6 liver enzyme that converts oxycodone to oxymorphone. After it was noted that the analgesic activity was far lower, the axiom was essentially abandoned with most sources now stating that ≈50% of the analgesic activity of oral oxycodone is mediated by that oxymorphone. This is human trials in which poor-metabolizers, average metabolizers and super-metabolizers were identified and the analgesic action of oxycodone was tested on all three groups. To nobodys surprise, the poorer a person's CYP2D6 metabolism, the less active oral oxycodone is.

It's just a guess but I honestly wonder if one reason that the makers of Oxycontin went with oxycodone because they throught rationally i.e. 'nobody will do anything but swallow the tablets as using them in any other way REDUCES potency' which to me seems like a sensible reason. Sure, people could chew up the original tablets but after they solved that one, I think they assumed nobody would go to all of the trouble of extracting the oxycodone to consume it in a manner that made it LESS active.

They made the cardinal mistake of not understanding that parentheral routes produce a very rapid onset and that while THEY knew oxycodone was most active orally - they made the assumption that the public would also know!

There are potentially more potent opioids that likewise would be far more active orally but in the last 40 years while any number of novel opioids with suppposed clinical advantages have appeared, they have almost all disappeared because they over-estimate the problem they tried to solve at the cost of potentially worse problems. Tapentadol is a classic. UK doctors quickly learnt that tapentadol could produce it's own unique AWS that wasn't ameanable to traditional detoxification methods to the point that it very rarely prescribed.

I suspect after tramadol killing so many (people assuming since it was supposed to be like codeine, a strip of tramadol would be more or less like a strip of plain codeine phosphate), UK doctors were already a mite suspicious of Grünenthal and tapentadol has further eroded that trust.

Most patients who are prescribed oxycodone do NOT go on to become raging addicts. Most patients don't try taking more tablets than they should, liking it and popping them for fun. For most patients they are a horrible situation in which just to function they have to take a tablet. A thing that as you get older you begin to hate.

 

[paranoid android]

How many mgs of Lyrica would you recommend, and how many for mg of antihistamine?
Might try the morphine again sometime, and I was on the mscontin before this IR morphine, but yeah, didn't feel much from 20mg of mscontin, but did feel more from them than IR if we talk nodding.

I am just tired that morphine doesn't work great for me, yesterday was the first time I ended up puking from the morphine, and that damn nausea kept being there even after the drug should be out of my body.

I thought Oxycodone or just all Oxys was the gold standard.

It's been so long since i took lyrica that i forget the dose. Some hydroxyzine or promethazine would be god to mix it wth. Take 2 of those

 

[ThePurpleMan]

It's been so long since i took lyrica that i forget the dose. Some hydroxyzine or promethazine would be god to mix it wth. Take 2 of those

So, question...
Would you recommend taking a smaller dose of Morphine then (Thinking like 30mg or so), and then take like 50mg of promethazine?
Imma see if I cant get something for the nausea, thinking along the lines of "ondansetron", but should promethazine be better for nausea?

 

[paranoid android]

So, question...
Would you recommend taking a smaller dose of Morphine then (Thinking like 30mg or so), and then take like 50mg of promethazine?
Imma see if I cant get something for the nausea, thinking along the lines of "ondansetron", but should promethazine be better for nausea?

I would say taking your regular dose with 50mg's of prometh is fine. You want to take the prometh about a half hour before you take the morphine though. It takes awile to kick in

Promethazine is great for nausea i doubt the other stuff will work any better

 

[ThePurpleMan]

I would say taking your regular dose with 50mg's of prometh is fine. You want to take the prometh about a half hour before you take the morphine though. It takes awile to kick in

Promethazine is great for nausea i doubt the other stuff will work any better

So, my regular dose is 10mg
Is it odd that I had prometh before, like before I had opioids, but even at 50mg, I never felt tired or anything from it (Was prescribed for sleeping), so I stopped them again. So would it even help with the Morphine?
Also, the nodding- would that even come with euphoria, or would it just be me being sleepy?

 

[paranoid android]

So, my regular dose is 10mg
Is it odd that I had prometh before, like before I had opioids, but even at 50mg, I never felt tired or anything from it (Was prescribed for sleeping), so I stopped them again. So would it even help with the Morphine?
Also, the nodding- would that even come with euphoria, or would it just be me being sleepy?

Id say try 50 or 60mg's with the promethazine then. Take the prometh about a half hour before you take the morphine. The 2 combined should make you drowsy