☮ Social ☮ PD Social Tripping Thread: aLL aBoArD tHe MoThErShiP 👽🛸

[Didgital]

I don't really see much similarity in the subjective effects of 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7. I kind of see 2C-T-2 as "fast food mescaline."

I agree that 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 are quite different but i would not call T-2 "fast l food mescaline" tho i agree that most 2C's share some sort of overlap with mescaline, with T-7 being the outlier (of all that I've tried). It seems to be it's own thing and i would call it a deleriant as much as a psychedelic. Zero plans to try it again, though I will be trying soke 2C-T-21.5 somewhat soon. Hoping it's most like 2C-T-2 but we'll see.

 

[iom]

I agree that 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 are quite different but i would not call T-2 "fast l food mescaline" tho i agree that most 2C's share some sort of overlap with mescaline, with T-7 being the outlier (of all that I've tried). It seems to be it's own thing and i would call it a deleriant as much as a psychedelic. Zero plans to try it again, though I will be trying soke 2C-T-21.5 somewhat soon. Hoping it's most like 2C-T-2 but we'll see.

I also think 2C-T-2 is quite different from mescaline. Perhaps it shares more with mescaline than LSD or most tryptamines, but IMO it's more like other 2C-Xs than like mescaline.

The "deliriant" quality of 2C-T-7 is interesting, but I'm not sure it's unique to 2C-T-7. I also suspect it only manifests at rather "high" doses, but because dose responses from 2C-T-7 are so variable, people may be more likely to encounter such an effect from 2C-T-7 than from other things. I suspect 2C-T-4 had similar potential and we'd probably seen more reports of such adverse reactions if it had been circulated more widely.

I did try 2C-T-21 a few times and found it only vaguely psychedelic and overall quite trivial compared to "real" psychedelics. It was kind of fun though, in a socially lubricating sort of way. I'm not inclined to believe that adding a second fluorine to the 4-ethylthio group will help this situation, but who knows? I've not seen any reports, so I guess we'll see. Good luck!

 

[xdrc]

I'm not looking for sources but is 2c-p available again?

I know that a batch of 2C-D/2C-E/2C-I was sold in North America for a while last year, alongside some 25P-NBOH. I do not recall if 2C-P itself was sold, but I recall it being available for a much inflated price some 3 years ago in Europe. Not only is it as hard to make as 2C-E, one of the precursors if you go via the classic PiHKAL intermediates is watched due to its use as fentanyl precursor (to be fair the equivalent chemical for making 2C-E is also used in making heroin, but is much more abundant). I think you need to be well connected and to the right place at the right time if you want a chance of buying it.

 

[xdrc]

tho i agree that most 2C's share some sort of overlap with mescaline

That's interesting. I find mescaline unique, sure, they all give the phenethylamine psychedelic vibe, but beyond that mescaline seems distinct. Proscaline I only had one meh experience, isoproscaline was nice, but the magic of mescaline much muted.

I have not tried 2C-T-7. But a friend is fond of it due to it being close to mescaline for him. He belongs to the people who prefer a hefty dose, as I recall he may have worked up to 50 mg, possibly more.

 

[Freeotrope]

I was working 80 hour weeks for a while and ended up with cannabis habit I couldn't stop. Yesterday I took a tab of acid and vaped thc throughout the day, but today I woke up without any desire for it.

I wonder if it helps reset the dopamine system / motivation / reward system

 

[Didgital]

To who ever deleted the LSI thread.. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Praise be to the (G/M)ods

I didn't like having to be like that. But it was literally breaking BULA is so many ways, I never even mentioned it but it was direct synthesis, even if it was fake. I'm sure I was reported many times by Tregar himself and probably lissiejedi, allylbenzene, quantamide. In the report section if you see them plz root for me and if I get banned temporarily. It was SO worth it.

Thank you whoever did it. I could kiss you on the lips dude or babe doesnt matter.

Watch the earlier thread come alive again though.

 

[JackARoe]

Thank you whoever did it. I could kiss you on the lips

FYI it was tregar that deleted it. Maybe I could have pruned out all the drama.

Like an episode of Law and order that I saw where a doctor had a sperm bank use his own sperm for all babies, they had a hard time convicting him because no actual laws were broken. (sound familiar?)

List out any BLUA violations, and a thread can definitely be reported. But it seems in this case.tregar removed it.

 

[Didgital]

Well.. I take it back I would never kiss Tregar or shake his hand at this point.
I imagine he deleted it because I made it pretty obvious what he was doing. I expect he'll be back, and as long as I'm not banned I'll be there.

I wish I had taken a screenshot of my final comment. I have nothing to gain personally

Thanks @JackARoe i hated having to be like that I just saw it as the opposite of harm reduction and it became my spiritual duty to dispel fiction and illuminate fact. By the way, here is my personal DM with Dr. Nichols.

 

[Didgital]

In the spirit of keeping this thread social and non dramatic...
The buisness I work for ordered 10kg of something called Tetrahydropalmatine. If you look at it closely... it's a homodimer of 3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine. Which is 1 methoxy group way from being mescaline. Whats wild is this compound acts as a hypnotic/sedative, analgesic and when you give it to mice that have become addicted to cocaine or heroin... they stop taking cocaine or heroin. It's a dopamine D1/D2 and to lesser extent D3 antagonist, and also acts at some 5HTa receptor as well as adrenergic receptor.

I'm likely going to trial 100mg tn though I've had a couple beers and I hesitate for that reason.

Tetrahydropalmatine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[iom]

[...]

I'm likely going to trial 100mg tn though I've had a couple beers and I hesitate for that reason.

Tetrahydropalmatine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you have L-THP or racemic THP?

 

[Didgital]

as I recall he may have worked up to 50 mg,

Somewhere on BL, i posted about taking 35mg of T7, nothing happened. Then i took15 more. Nothing happened. Then i took 15-20mg of T2. (In retrospect people have died from less)

Then i came to and my bedroom was trashed and i was looking at at a $20k bioreactor in my living room

My first trial w T7 (same material) was a lowish dose of 25mg (i was scurred cuz of deaths) and i felt a nice warm mdxx glowy feeling.

Its inconsistency and reputation for causing serious harm, ive given it all away.

T2 on other hand is so neon i love it and i save my remaining stash for me and special occasions. Its wayyyy more neon then mescaline could ever be.

Getting 2c-t-21.5 soon which i hope is somewhat like T2

 

[Didgital]

Do you have L-THP or racemic THP?

Tbh. Not sure. I assume L-THP because it was extracted from Yan Hun suo (cordyalis) and the plant only makes the L stereroisomer.

Its also called rotundine. Ancient chinese medicine

Love my job

 

[iom]

T2 on other hand is so neon i love it and i save my remaining stash for me and special occasions. Its wayyyy more neon then mescaline could ever be.

Neon is an interesting word to use. Do you mean specifically in terms of color/visual emphasis? Or something more metaphorical? On my old list of favorites, 2C-T-2 was at position #3 under 2C-E and mescaline (tied), but I'm going to have to work 2C-P into that list somehow. Nevertheless, I absolutely adore it.

Of my course my "mescaline" experiences have all been from cacti, mostly tea from the "trichocereus terscheckii" material I've been using, which for various reasons I speculate approximates pure mescaline very closely. Maybe some day I'll learn that I'm wrong, but this plant material has given me a few of the most impactful trips of my life. I only wish I knew where/how this plant was grown and how I could grow one myself. (They grow huge and would need to winter indoors in my climate.)

Getting 2c-t-21.5 soon which i hope is somewhat like T2

I can't find any human reports for 2C-T-21.5 or 2C-T-22. Are you aware of any? I wouldn't have high hopes for 2C-T-21.5 given what 2C-T-21 was like. Not that 2C-T-21 was bad, but it was not really trippy except when I once combined it with 2C-C.

Tbh. Not sure. I assume L-THP because it was extracted from Yan Hun suo (cordyalis) and the plant only makes the L stereroisomer.

I see. From the quick reading I did, I knew that one or more plants produced "THP" and that L-THP is synthesized for pharmaceutical purposes, but I was missing the detail that at least one plant produces only the L stereoisomer.

 

[xdrc]

I can't find any human reports for 2C-T-21.5 or 2C-T-22. Are you aware of any? I wouldn't have high hopes for 2C-T-21.5 given what 2C-T-21 was like. Not that 2C-T-21 was bad, but it was not really trippy except when I once combined it with 2C-C.

There are only very vague notes in Trachsel's book Phenethylamine - Von der Struktur zur Funktion. 2C-T-21 may metabolise partially to fluoroacetaldehyde -> fluoroacetate, which blocks the Krebs cycle. 2C-T-22 (and trifluoroescaline) may form trifluoroacetaldehyde, which in rodents was found to cause "testicular toxicity". I've not researched difluoroacetaldehyde and difluoroacetate, so it is anyone's guess what that does. IIRC 2C-T-21.5 sounded a little bit more interesting than 2C-T-22. But hey, these compounds can't have been taken by more than a handful of people, and no long format report was written. I really do hope that Trachsel finds the time to write another book with experiences of the really obscure compounds. As far as I've heard he has expressed interest in doing so.

I have a little bit of the aldehyde for trifluoroescaline (which aside from balls falling off, I've heard good things about) sitting around, but at the moment I'm not really interested in such long experiences. My cyclopropylmescaline has also been sitting around for a little while. Maybe I should just settle for 2C-D, and perhaps revisit 2C-T.

 

[Allylbenzene]

My cyclopropylmescaline has also been sitting around for a little while. Maybe I should just settle for 2C-D

If you have the means to visit the 4C-x series that might be interesting. Considering the α-ethyl SAR this holds great promise.

Also χ-2C-H might be worth exploring aka
— (6-methoxy-2H-chromen-4-yl)methanamine

It's basically 2C-H with the 2-meo cyclised to the ß position forming a dihydropyran. The 2C-D equivalent might work considering 4,5-DHP-DMT has strong 2A activity, and the 4-methyl PEA/7-methyl indole overlay.

(6-methoxy-2H-chromen-4-yl)methanamine

(6-methoxy-2H-chromen-4-yl)methanamine | C11H13NO2 | CID 12914863 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more.

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I have a little bit of the aldehyde for trifluoroescaline sitting around

One of Nichols colleagues is in the midst of scaline research. He told me a bunch of flurorinated 3,4,5-PEAs had been tested and a few fluorinated proscaline derivatives showed reduced activity than expected based on their 5-HT2A activity. Also that adding an NBOMe group definitely increases the potency of mescaline, but not the same extent that potency increases in the 2,4,5-series.

 

[Didgital]

Do you mean specifically in terms of color/visual emphasis?

I meant visual wise, which is entirely subjective ofc. My first good go with it at 20mg, i was seeing neon purple and orange slugs "hugging" each other. one would hug the other which would expand i thought it was going to explode. it would let go and the other slug would hug the first one and it would expand. This happened for hours along with other super vivid and again "neon" imagery. I don't know how to describe the experience other than saying neon. Mescaline to me is dreamier both headspace and visually though, and seems to incorporate more colors, any colors that come to mind. T2 i would say was more visual but in a different and in your face neon kind of way. With mescaline, I am prone to having OBE's but with T2 and 2C-E for that matter I am EXTREMELY aware of my body. Almost too aware. That same first T2 trip my consciousness moved from my third eye down into my gut. It was extremely nauseating and physical (almost more so than 2C-E), but I've taken it 3 times since, and now I get almost no body load. It's been a few years maybe I'll have to revisit. I also get pretty much zero body load from mescaline. Cacti is different story.

Of my course my "mescaline" experiences have all been from cacti,

That's going to change I'm sure.

difluoroacetate,

I believe its difluoroacetic acid and yes I spose I'm taking a gamble, but it's not something I plan to take much of. Unless I really like it.
Who needs balls anyway they just get in the way.

You're right about Traschel's phenethylamine book in that it's vague af. Most experiences are described in 1 or 2 sentences, so there's not a lot to go on. (Btw, can't thank you enough)
Lets see, this is what it says about the 21.5.

"The 2C-T-21.5 and 2C-T-22 already theoretically proposed by shulgin were finally tested in humans. 2C-T-21.5 (142; 12-30mg 8 -14 h) proved to be only slightly less potent compared to 2C-T-21 (141) coupled with classic psychedelic components. 2C-T-22 has not yet been sufficiently tested (first signs of effects at 5+5+6 mg)"

So I have very little idea of what to expect as I've never tried 2C-T-21. I just hope** it is 2C-T-2 like but we'll see.

Maybe I should just settle for 2C-D, and perhaps revisit 2C-T

Can't go wrong with 2C-D imo. Never tried 2C-T but i think you were mentioning some inconsistency with it? That's the only thing that worries me about any of the 2C-T's really, the strange metabolisms and unknown mechanisms (as I plan on taking some novel difluoroethylthio thing lmao yes Mr EMT i took too much of something that is mentioned in one book and it's in german lol). At least there is a wiki page on it though.

 

[xdrc]

I believe its difluoroacetic acid

At physiological pH it will be deprotonated as the difluoroacetate anion

Just start low and slow with the 2C-T-21.5. Better to not feel enough. I heard an anecdote about 2C-iP that in the Trachsel circle a threshold was established and a friend of him started bioassaying at that dose only to find he was very sensitive and it "fucked him up" pretty well and long. While I do trust Trachsel's data I would keep this potential for different sensitivity in mind! I think acute toxicity can be mostly avoided with the Shulgin approach, and fallen balls can be addressed with a sewing kit.

Good luck and report back

 

[Didgital]

At physiological pH it will be deprotonated as the difluoroacetate anion

Just start low and slow with the 2C-T-21.5. Better to not feel enough. I heard an anecdote about 2C-iP that in the Trachsel circle a threshold was established and a friend of him started bioassaying at that dose only to find he was very sensitive and it "fucked him up" pretty well and long. While I do trust Trachsel's data I would keep this potential for different sensitivity in mind! I think acute toxicity can be mostly avoided with the Shulgin approach, and fallen balls can be addressed with a sewing kit.

Good luck and report back

Def gonna be a while cuz its also an aldehyde atm. And have some that sound much more interesting like unsubbed FLY aldehyde

I just read about T-21, which I guess I haven't read much about it aside from pihkal, but sounds kind of awful. It seems inconsistent and contradictory, but also quite potent. I did not realize it caused a death of a quadriplegic man and was one of the causes of Operation Web Tryp. But the guy stuck his tongue in a vial which is obviously really dumb.

per wiki:

"the effects of 2C-T-21 have been reported to include little in the way of visuals, intense after-images, difficult to define mental changes, feeling stoned, time dilation, mood enhancement or pleasantness, no euphoria, talkativeness, enhanced communication, feelings of closeness with others, feelings of inner strength and peace, no insights, and push of energy. Other effects included mental confusion, memory impairment, little or no body load, no nausea, no nystagmus, chills, yawning and ear popping, and no appetite loss.

Did a cop write that?? Seems like not a single positive thing. The few reports I've found on reddit are contradictory compared to everything written in Pihkal so again, not sure what to expect and maybe having 2nd thoughts.
I've always treated the 2C's fairly carefully aside from my 50mg T7 experience which i was trying to force, and obviously turned out badly.

If I do ever taste it ofc BL is the first place I come to report.

 

[iom]

I just read about T-21, which I guess I haven't read much about it aside from pihkal, but sounds kind of awful. It seems inconsistent and contradictory, but also quite potent. I did not realize it caused a death of a quadriplegic man and was one of the causes of Operation Web Tryp. But the guy stuck his tongue in a vial which is obviously really dumb.

Yeah. I was "there", as in actively following psychedelic news at the time. I wonder if he died from the theorized flouroacetate metabolite? We'll probably never know. As soon as the death and Operation Web Tryp happened, it all but vanished. Between that and the 2C-T-7 deaths, I was super paranoid about trying my 2C-T-2 and let it sit for years before I discovered what a gem it is.

per wiki:

That wiki write-up really sucks. Maybe it's because the drug largely disappeared long before that wiki came into being? I liked 2C-T-21 as did others I knew who tried it, but it was also quite "meh" in so far as it wasn't a proper full psychedelic. To make an insider reference (for those following me in other threads), it may be "a non-psychedelic psycho-plastogen". IMO the reports in PIHKAL and in Stolaroff are much more accurate. Back when it was in distribution ('03-'04?), I rest most Erowid trip reports, and while I don't recall details, I don't remember seeing complaints about it, probably because most users reporting on Erowid were well informed and had reasonable expectations. FWIW, I think @Xorkoth here on BL liked it quite a lot for what it was.

Would I do 2C-T-21 again? Probably not knowing about the possibility of a toxic metabolite, and honestly it just wasn't good enough to justify the risks of an unknown chemical or whatever.

 

[iom]

Here is a very early report of delirium from 2C-T-7 (40 mg dose):

https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=2963

The TR highlights not just the severe effects that are possible but the dramatic variation between individuals.

The "community" was very small then. I was not really a part of it, but I knew people who were. I didn't start my own research phenethylamine experiments until a couple of years later.