Opioids are the 7oh vapes similar to chasing the dragon?

[Featherfall]

This post made me chuckle a bit.

No, 7oh vapes are not chasing the dragon.

Chasing the dragon specifically refers to smoking black tar heroin off foil, with greater significance in describing heroin addiction in general..

yes i m aware, i made this post trying to find a way to contextualize it better within the broader drug world, people have only really recently started smoking opioids again as the main roa after all, so how does 7oh fit in here

 

[Featherfall]

I do think it should be schedule 2, because I think it's a much safer alternative for treating pain than traditional opioids at least in regards to respiratory depression. When I had a low tolerance 5mg was enough to barely notice psychoactive effects while providing significant analgesia/pain relief.

i mean we all know the dea is complete horseshit at what they do, i'd just like research on kratom alkaloids to not be made harder. The pain relieve is great but the intense tolerance build up worries me

 

[Featherfall]

Anyways you kinda made me place where severe 7oh treads. Its like some fucked fucked up amalgamation of opioid, stimulant, and SSRI withdrawal with a tinge of severe benzo withdrawal.

the weird non opioid activity of them is so fucked, i wish we studied it more its so fascinating

 

[Featherfall]

Man I got mad stories about the industry and life in general, that you won't hear all the time. :D

shit man i'd love to actually hear those if your still up for sharing, i've been writing something on kratom and it could help

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

the weird non opioid activity of them is so fucked, i wish we studied it more its so fascinating

Yeah. Kratom alkaloids are super dirty and neurologically promiscuous. From a pharmacological perspective they are fairly interesting.

Kratom fucked with my brain in weird ways that are difficult to describe. Neuromuscular blockade, tremor, adrenal rushes, repetitive thoughts, involuntarily musical imagery, anger, nystagmus, myoclonic and hyonogogic jerks, sleep paralysis, hyperuria. These are all weird side effects I've experienced from kratom alkaloids & 7oh.

When I combined kratom alkaloids with other drugs or medication, the list of side effects grows even more.

 

[Didgital]

I've also semi uncovered a very serious ongoing event related to the 7-OH. I started looking into Buzzers, the company thats buying up all the 7. I first thought they were buying it to resell on black market or maybe some other country where 7 isn't going to be banned.

THEN, i remembered a few weeks ago, someone had mentioned to me about some unknown company that was selling a brand new product being marketed as 7-OH alternative which is based on a extract of Uncaria tormentosa aka Cat's Claw. Cat's claw and kratom have overlapping alkaloid profiles, meaning you'll see some of the same alkaloids in both plants.. but also alkaloids unique to each species.

Ok I was thinking that they were buying the 7 to sell illegally... (could be..) but actually what is happening is they are using the 7-OH to convert it into an entirely novel semi-synthetic alkaloid that shares the same geometry with cat's claw alkaloids such as Rhynchophylline, but it still has the ability to interact with the mu Opioid receptor so it likely shares the same stereochemistry

I'm getting reports of people going through withdrawal from taking this "cat claw" product after only a few days of usage which does NOT happen with cat's claw. Ok so someone with enough loot spent quite a bit to get the product thoroughly chemically analyzed. They see the same alkaloids that you would expect from cat's claw, but then are also seeing a new compound that has never been seen before and therefore the standard to compare it while doing typical chemical analysis doesn't exist yet.

DON'T BUY BUZZERS products. I know the owner by the way. He cold called me years ago when I was making 7 in my apartment on the pretense of hiring me, but he was just brain raping me. He's one of the folk I was reffering to when they are vultures that don't care about you. They only care about your money.

I'll likely made a post specifically regarding this.

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

yes i m aware, i made this post trying to find a way to contextualize it better within the broader drug world, people have only really recently started smoking opioids again as the main roa after all, so how does 7oh fit in here

In terms of potency, 7oh is up there... like 7/10. But in terms of the quality of the high it provides it's really low like 2/10. Does that make sense? It's potent, but in the end is not comparable to other potent opioids like vicodin, oxy, heroin, fent. If that makes sense. That's why I chuckled about calling vaped 7oh chasing the dragon. Its not even close imo.

I'll likely made a post specifically regarding this.

The nerd in me is super curious about this other plant analog you talk about.

The addict in me doesn't really want to know. Heh.

 

[Didgital]

In terms of potency, 7oh is up there... like 7/10. But in terms of the quality of the high it provides it's really low like 2/10. Does that make sense? It's potent, but in the end is not comparable to other potent opioids like vicodin, oxy, heroin, fent. If that makes sense. That's why I chuckled about calling vaped 7oh chasing the dragon. Its not even close imo.


The nerd in me is super curious about this other plant analog you talk about.

The addict in me doesn't really want to know. Heh.

Well I have some ideas on it's chemical structure but I'd rather not speculate cuz I'll probably be wrong. I bought a few packs and we are going to have NMR done on them soonish.

The buzzer's reports are all over the place and it seems there may be some counterfeits going around as well. The effective ones are very long lasting, tolerance seems to rise very quickly, and most people say it is definitely an opioid. They say withdrawl starts about 24 hr after last dose, but it's not as intense as 7-OH withdrawal. That's about all I know but I was just skimming reddit posts like this one.

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

@Didgital 7oh had a rebound effect like that for me. Not at first, but after my dependency developed I could switch to suboxone for a few weeks/months, then relapse on 7oh for 3 days, and I would suffer withdrawals after just 3 days of use. Similar to a benzo rebound effect. I don't know why, but my pseudoeducated guess would be the rebound effect is due to dysregulated dopamine levels in various parts of the brain.

 

[Didgital]

Similar to a benzo rebound effect

yeah dude I do not miss those one bit. I think I'm fucked for life and cannot take benzos at all without WD's.

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

yeah dude I do not miss those one bit. I think I'm fucked for life and cannot take benzos at all without WD's.

I understand brother. My GABA receptors have become ultra sensitive over the years from ridiculous benzo & alcohol abuse.

Muscimol helps so much during benzo rebound/withdrawal. Super underrated for this purpose. There is hypothetical medical papers which theorize it can help resensitize the receptor after benzo caused regitidy... and in my experience it works! Just make sure you get pure decarbed muscimol, and don't take too much because it can spontaneously carboxylate itself back into ibotenic acid in vivo at high doses.

Not sure if you've ever heard of the medication Acamprosate, but its amazing for alcohol hangover anxiety and general glutaminergic rebound.

 

[Didgital]

I understand brother. My GABA receptors have become ultra sensitive over the years from ridiculous benzo & alcohol abuse.

Muscimol helps so much during benzo rebound/withdrawal. Super underrated for this purpose. There is hypothetical medical papers which theorize it can help resensitize the receptor after benzo caused regitidy... and in my experience it works! Just make sure you get pure decarbed muscimol, and don't take too much because it can spontaneously carboxylate itself back into ibotenic acid in vivo at high doses.

Not sure if you've ever heard of the medication Acamprosate, but its amazing for alcohol hangover anxiety and general glutaminergic rebound.

I had not but I def still struggle with alcohol at times. CBD actually works well for hangovers as well somehow.. Does muscimol help with alcohol as well?

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

I had not but I def still struggle with alcohol at times. CBD actually works well for hangovers as well somehow.. Does muscimol help with alcohol as well?

Yes it does, however I would say it only helps as an overriding effect and not on a pharmacological level, because alcohol rebound/withdrawal is premeditated by glutamate rebound, where benzo withdrawal is GABA downregulation/desensitization. Muscimol is a basic GABA agonist, almost identical to GABA on a molecular level.

I might suggest muscimol to a problem drinker, but not a real alcoholic.

Acamprosate is the perfect drug for alcohol abuse imo. Its not abuseable or anything, and oddly it comes in 333mg pills and I was instructed to take 666mg 3 times per day (seriously )... but you know that odd anxiety you get during hangovers? It completely eliminates that. I would drink, wake up at 3am to piss or whatever, then take some acamprosate and it completely eliminates all anxiety after the alcohol wears off. This in turn helps break the cycle of drinking to feel better after a night of drinking.

It's really not that obscure of a drug. It is heavily underprescribed. I do not believe anyone necessarily requires simultaneous therapy. Acamprosate has zero side effects at all, its probably the most benign med I've ever taken. But its really good at normalizing the NMDA receptor... but it does not seem to interact with typical dissociative drugs for whatever reason.

 

[Featherfall]

In terms of potency, 7oh is up there... like 7/10. But in terms of the quality of the high it provides it's really low like 2/10. Does that make sense? It's potent, but in the end is not comparable to other potent opioids like vicodin, oxy, heroin, fent. If that makes sense. That's why I chuckled about calling vaped 7oh chasing the dragon. Its not even close imo..

thats interesting, i think i understand, is it similar to how fent (and its many modern analoges) is described as unbelievably potent but with a really unremarkable high? its basically everyday people on here bemoan the disappearance of heroin for it (lower "weight potency" better "quality of high")

 

[Featherfall]

@Didgital 7oh had a rebound effect like that for me. Not at first, but after my dependency developed I could switch to suboxone for a few weeks/months, then relapse on 7oh for 3 days, and I would suffer withdrawals after just 3 days of use. Similar to a benzo rebound effect. I don't know why, but my pseudoeducated guess would be the rebound effect is due to dysregulated dopamine levels in various parts of the brain.

this makes me wonder, subs worked for you for 7-oh? how long did you wait before initiating? my best friend they didnt do shit at even fent level doses

 

[Featherfall]

Yes it does, however I would say it only helps as an overriding effect and not on a pharmacological level, because alcohol rebound/withdrawal is premeditated by glutamate rebound, where benzo withdrawal is GABA downregulation/desensitization. Muscimol is a basic GABA agonist, almost identical to GABA on a molecular level.

I might suggest muscimol to a problem drinker, but not a real alcoholic.

Acamprosate is the perfect drug for alcohol abuse imo. Its not abuseable or anything, and oddly it comes in 333mg pills and I was instructed to take 666mg 3 times per day (seriously )... but you know that odd anxiety you get during hangovers? It completely eliminates that. I would drink, wake up at 3am to piss or whatever, then take some acamprosate and it completely eliminates all anxiety after the alcohol wears off. This in turn helps break the cycle of drinking to feel better after a night of drinking.

It's really not that obscure of a drug. It is heavily underprescribed. I do not believe anyone necessarily requires simultaneous therapy. Acamprosate has zero side effects at all, its probably the most benign med I've ever taken. But its really good at normalizing the NMDA receptor... but it does not seem to interact with typical dissociative drugs for whatever reason.

muscimol and acamprosate sound like amazing drugs to have in your everydays medicine cabinet tbh lol

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

thats interesting, i think i understand, is it similar to how fent (and its many modern analoges) is described as unbelievably potent but with a really unremarkable high?

Yeah, that's the same concept I'm talking about.

Comparing opioids to each other can be misleading, because there are really 3 metrics to consider. Potency, affinity, and efficacy.

Potency refers in general to how much weight of the drug is needed to achieve the desired effect.

Affinity refers to how tightly the drug binds to the receptor.

Efficacy refers to how efficiently or to what extent the drug activates the receptor.

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

this makes me wonder, subs worked for you for 7-oh? how long did you wait before initiating? my best friend they didnt do shit at even fent level doses

Subs dont work very well for 7oh actually. It certainly helps a lot and is infinitely better than nothing, but its really a poor substitution by itself. Its not too bad if you heavily supplement dopamine.

But in the end it's really the only option. I wouldn't really recommend methadone.

I once tried using SR-17018, and it didn't go well. I had 3g and that didn't help much, I probably needed more like 30g... but the shit ain't cheap and I couldn't afford that much.

 

[Jung and Stoopid]

muscimol and acamprosate sound like amazing drugs to have in your everydays medicine cabinet tbh lol

Yes they are. I would also add the supplements D/L phenylalanine, Agmatine Sulfate, NAD+, and high dose liposomal vitamin C to the list of essential stuff for the average drug user's medicine cabinet.