Opioids 7OH and pseudo for fentanyl withdrawal?

[aspiringchemist]

I recently came across a post on BL stating that pseudo has a higher binding affinity than buprenorphine. Given this info it seems possible that 7OH and pseudo may be useful in fent withdrawal as fent has a fairly high binding affinity iirc.

I was on 16mg/day suboxone for 3 years and walked myself off over 6 months using pseudo and 7OH. Unfortunately I’ve developed a 1g per day fentanyl habit and have experienced PW every time I try to induct back on my subs.

I haven’t been taking the kratom alkaloids since starting the fent habit but decided to try them this afternoon and was pleasantly surprised by the effects. Granted it’s been two hours and I’m starting to feel in need, not sick, but restless and manic.

I’m feeling incredibly hopeless about getting off the fent. I have methadone and morphine that work well enough for a few hours but i don’t have access to nearly enough to switch habits. Because 7OH and pseudo are so easily obtainable, I could acquire enough for a switch long term, or to get me back on subs. I tried to make the 3 day span to bupe with morphine and couldn’t do it. My current thoughts are using a combination of morphine (15-30mg) and 7OH/pseudo to cover the acute withdrawal for 3 days so that I can induce back on subs. I know it’s switching one habit for another but I’ve got no qualms with being dependent on 7OH and suboxone (which work well together imo).

I thought the alks would have no effect but they sure did. I haven’t smoked fent for 3.5 hours (which I know is nothing) but felt pretty good during that time using 7OH and pseudo. It seems like these alkaloids could help fent users get through the 3 day wait to induce suboxone. Curious if anyone has experience with this?

 

[PenguinWithNapalm]

I have used 7oh for fent withdrawal. It works well. I was only smoking about half a gram a day though. The 7oh took care of the worst of the wds but I was still so weak and lethargic it was a struggle to get out of bed. 7oh and a nice weed cart got me through many a bad day

 

[aspiringchemist]

Good to hear and good job. Fent addiction is atrocious with the short half life and exorbitant price. I have a long history of opioid dependency but this takes the cake for the most pointless and expensive addiction.

Prior to this, I was taking 60mg pseudo about 4-5x a day and began noticing a massive decrease in effects alongside increased side effects; I was getting wobbles like plain leaf and they drive me crazy. In the past few months I’ve stopped taking the alkaloids and pretty much only use fent. In the past couple days I’ve been trying to space my dosing out by using pseudo and 7OH in between and I’m finding them fairly effective when not taken chronically.

Have you managed to stay off fent? Frankly, I’m scared to kick but can’t afford to keep using it. I probably wouldn’t even try if it wasn’t for the expense.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Does anyone else have any input or can this be a safe place to talk?

I’m currently entering fent withdrawal from approximately 1 - 1.5g/day smoked for like the past 5 months. I’m sitting on a ball of fent but I’m disgusted with myself, it’s high, and the money and obsession. With that said, I’m unwilling to enter withdrawal without having some at hand for fear of not tolerating it. With that said, I’ve not been able to make it a day without. I used about 4 hours ago so I wouldn’t even have a day (it’s 6pm here).

I have tomorrow off work and if I can get Friday off I could be off through Saturday (it’s Wednesday). I’m scared. I have about 30 15mg morphine IR, a grip of pseudo and 7OH, as well as clonidine, pregabalin, and clonazepam scripts, and like 1000 8mg sub strips. I feel like a baby when I say that and still feel scared but they don’t fully cover the fent withdrawal. That scattered anxiety feeling is setting in.

My goal is not to be opioid free per se; I’m fine with being hooked on 7OH and pseudo. That was my old baseline. I need off the fent. That voice in the back of my head is now telling me to use.

I want this nightmare to be over. I’ve spent like $5000 on fent in the past few months and can barely tolerate the thought. Just looking for support and feedback I guess.

My plan would be to use the morphine if needed and kratom alkaloids to bridge 48-72 hours and re induce suboxone.

 

[Syntherize]

I recently came across a post on BL stating that pseudo has a higher binding affinity than buprenorphine. Given this info it seems possible that 7OH and pseudo may be useful in fent withdrawal as fent has a fairly high binding affinity iirc.

I was on 16mg/day suboxone for 3 years and walked myself off over 6 months using pseudo and 7OH. Unfortunately I’ve developed a 1g per day fentanyl habit and have experienced PW every time I try to induct back on my subs.

I haven’t been taking the kratom alkaloids since starting the fent habit but decided to try them this afternoon and was pleasantly surprised by the effects. Granted it’s been two hours and I’m starting to feel in need, not sick, but restless and manic.

I’m feeling incredibly hopeless about getting off the fent. I have methadone and morphine that work well enough for a few hours but i don’t have access to nearly enough to switch habits. Because 7OH and pseudo are so easily obtainable, I could acquire enough for a switch long term, or to get me back on subs. I tried to make the 3 day span to bupe with morphine and couldn’t do it. My current thoughts are using a combination of morphine (15-30mg) and 7OH/pseudo to cover the acute withdrawal for 3 days so that I can induce back on subs. I know it’s switching one habit for another but I’ve got no qualms with being dependent on 7OH and suboxone (which work well together imo).

I thought the alks would have no effect but they sure did. I haven’t smoked fent for 3.5 hours (which I know is nothing) but felt pretty good during that time using 7OH and pseudo. It seems like these alkaloids could help fent users get through the 3 day wait to induce suboxone. Curious if anyone has experience with this?

With fentanyl one must wait longer to induce with buprenorphine (36-48 hrs), because fentanyl is a more lipid soluble drug, so it gets trapped in your fat tissue, and it is excreted from the body slowly even though it has a relatively short half-life. I used to have a gram a day IV heroin habit and I’ve been on fent too. If I can do it so can you. Also, you have to learn how to cut the strips into eighths so that you can taper off entirely but still slowly.

 

[aspiringchemist]

With fentanyl one must wait longer to induce with buprenorphine (36-48 hrs), because fentanyl is a more lipid soluble drug, so it gets trapped in your fat tissue, and it is excreted from the body slowly even though it has a relatively short half-life. I used to have a gram a day IV heroin habit and I’ve been on fent too. If I can do it so can you. Also, you have to learn how to cut the strips into eighths so that you can taper off entirely but still slowly.

For sure. If you’ll notice the last sentence of my post I reference the 3 day period necessary for induction. I made it 3 days a few months ago and induced suboxone successfully but ended up relapsing not long after. I’ve got plenty of experience cutting bupe strips as I walked myself off a 16mg per day habit via titration with 8mg strips.

Off topic, but I’ve been exploring different bridge meditations to cover the 3 day period for sub induction. I’m having a fair bit of success with diphenoxylate, the active opioid in lomitil (2.5mg diphenoxylate/0.025mg atropine). I’m able to go the entire day without fentanyl using 6-7 lomitil tablets (15-17.5mg diphenoxylate) and actually feel opiated, not to mention no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever.

I’ve saved a rather large amount of lomitil over the years. I’m now out of any other opioid so my current plan is to bridge with lomitil and 7OH. I simply can’t do the 3 days cold turkey.

 

[Syntherize]

For sure. If you’ll notice the last sentence of my post I reference the 3 day period necessary for induction. I made it 3 days a few months ago and induced suboxone successfully but ended up relapsing not long after. I’ve got plenty of experience cutting bupe strips as I walked myself off a 16mg per day habit via titration with 8mg strips.

Off topic, but I’ve been exploring different bridge meditations to cover the 3 day period for sub induction. I’m having a fair bit of success with diphenoxylate, the active opioid in lomitil (2.5mg diphenoxylate/0.025mg atropine). I’m able to go the entire day without fentanyl using 6-7 lomitil tablets (15-17.5mg diphenoxylate) and actually feel opiated, not to mention no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever.

I’ve saved a rather large amount of lomitil over the years. I’m now out of any other opioid so my current plan is to bridge with lomitil and 7OH. I simply can’t do the 3 days cold turkey.

Interesting stuff and thanks for the information. I’ve stopped opiates too many times. I love them but I know that a continual habit isn’t the way to live even if I’m being functional in society while doing so. Suboxone is a godsend because without it our options would be limited to primarily methadone, and I’ve never been a complete fan of it even though I’ve tapered on my own using it as well.

 

[Germ91886]

I recently came across a post on BL stating that pseudo has a higher binding affinity than buprenorphine. Given this info it seems possible that 7OH and pseudo may be useful in fent withdrawal as fent has a fairly high binding affinity iirc.

I was on 16mg/day suboxone for 3 years and walked myself off over 6 months using pseudo and 7OH. Unfortunately I’ve developed a 1g per day fentanyl habit and have experienced PW every time I try to induct back on my subs.

I haven’t been taking the kratom alkaloids since starting the fent habit but decided to try them this afternoon and was pleasantly surprised by the effects. Granted it’s been two hours and I’m starting to feel in need, not sick, but restless and manic.

I’m feeling incredibly hopeless about getting off the fent. I have methadone and morphine that work well enough for a few hours but i don’t have access to nearly enough to switch habits. Because 7OH and pseudo are so easily obtainable, I could acquire enough for a switch long term, or to get me back on subs. I tried to make the 3 day span to bupe with morphine and couldn’t do it. My current thoughts are using a combination of morphine (15-30mg) and 7OH/pseudo to cover the acute withdrawal for 3 days so that I can induce back on subs. I know it’s switching one habit for another but I’ve got no qualms with being dependent on 7OH and suboxone (which work well together imo).

I thought the alks would have no effect but they sure did. I haven’t smoked fent for 3.5 hours (which I know is nothing) but felt pretty good during that time using 7OH and pseudo. It seems like these alkaloids could help fent users get through the 3 day wait to induce suboxone. Curious if anyone has experience with this?

You'll go broke in a few weeks time trying to maintain stability using 7oh/psuedo... it's really dangerous even trying, because these 7oh tabs are fantastic dope replacements... the name of the game is the same too, tolerance builds, takes more and more.. not to mention they dont last anywhere near as long as sub or methadone, really only 3 or 4 hours max... usually a 2 hr buzz for me I have to re dose...

 

[Syntherize]

You'll go broke in a few weeks time trying to maintain stability using 7oh/psuedo... it's really dangerous even trying, because these 7oh tabs are fantastic dope replacements... the name of the game is the same too, tolerance builds, takes more and more.. not to mention they dont last anywhere near as long as sub or methadone, really only 3 or 4 hours max... usually a 2 hr buzz for me I have to re dose...

#Facts…even doing straight real heroin is better than any of those too srsly…smfh

 

[seanspelledwell]

I'm right there too, trying to induct 1-2mg of bupe to get off fent and just having the hardest time. I haven't tried any kratom products in years and have been wondering how 7-oh would work for me in the acute 24-48 hours after last fent use. Should I give it a shot?

 

[aspiringchemist]

You'll go broke in a few weeks time trying to maintain stability using 7oh/psuedo... it's really dangerous even trying, because these 7oh tabs are fantastic dope replacements... the name of the game is the same too, tolerance builds, takes more and more.. not to mention they dont last anywhere near as long as sub or methadone, really only 3 or 4 hours max... usually a 2 hr buzz for me I have to re dose...

I agree and was previously addicted to 300mg a day of pseudo. I was more talking about using the kratom alkaloids to bridge 2-3 days of acute fentanyl withdrawal specifically for the purpose of excreting the fentanyl and inducing suboxone. I wondered if anyone had experience with this or if they even felt the effects coming off of fentanyl because they don’t seem to hold me. I still go into fentanyl withdrawal even when taking high doses of pseudo/7oh

I would love to use heroin as a bridge medication to induce suboxone but I can’t find it anywhere. That’s what I’m talking about, using a short acting opioid to bridge acute withdrawals from fentanyl for 3 days so that you can safely induce suboxone; not prolonged use or switching permanently to the short acting opioid. It is a common medical approach in Canada currently because they acknowledge the difficulty and unrealistic expectation of enduring 2-3 days of acute fentanyl withdrawal to induce suboxone, which is what is demanded by US doctors. I found one hospital inpatient protocol in Oregon that called for the use of short acting opioids to bridge, following what is practiced in Canada, but otherwise it’s almost unheard of in the US. Honestly I believe it is the only humane approach. So I was wondering if pseido and 7OH were strong enough to do this specifically because doctors here won’t prescribe a 3 day course of short acting opioids for this purpose.

 

[aspiringchemist]

I'm right there too, trying to induct 1-2mg of bupe to get off fent and just having the hardest time. I haven't tried any kratom products in years and have been wondering how 7-oh would work for me in the acute 24-48 hours after last fent use. Should I give it a shot?

I’ve come to decide through trial and error that bridging the 2-3 days with a short acting opioid is the way to go. It’s almost painless and makes the most sense. It is in use in medical practice in Canada and other countries. For some god forsaken reason US doctors refuse to acknowledge that this is an appropriate approach without significant risk of harm and perhaps maybe the only realistic approach for those of us that can’t do 2-3 days cold turkey from fentanyl waiting to induce suboxone. It’s called SROM in Canada (slow release oral morphine).

 

[Syntherize]

I'm right there too, trying to induct 1-2mg of bupe to get off fent and just having the hardest time. I haven't tried any kratom products in years and have been wondering how 7-oh would work for me in the acute 24-48 hours after last fent use. Should I give it a shot?

When trying to get on Subs from fent (done it many times successfully) wait AT LEAST 36-48 hours before doing so in order to avoid the risk of PW.

 

[aspiringchemist]

#Facts…even doing straight real heroin is better than any of those too srsly…smfh

I agree and was previously addicted to 300mg a day of pseudo. I was more talking about using the kratom alkaloids to bridge 2-3 days of acute fentanyl withdrawal specifically for the purpose of excreting the fentanyl and inducing suboxone. I wondered if anyone had experience with this or if they even felt the effects coming off of fentanyl because they don’t seem to hold me. I still go into fentanyl withdrawal even when taking high doses of pseudo/7oh

I would love to use heroin as a bridge medication to induce suboxone but I can’t find it anywhere. That’s what I’m talking about, using a short acting opioid to bridge acute withdrawals from fentanyl for 3 days so that you can safely induce suboxone; not prolonged use or switching permanently to the short acting opioid. It is a common medical approach in Canada currently because they acknowledge the difficulty and unrealistic expectation of enduring 2-3 days of acute fentanyl withdrawal to induce suboxone, which is what is demanded by US doctors. I found one hospital inpatient protocol in Oregon that called for the use of short acting opioids to bridge, following what is practiced in Canada, but otherwise it’s almost unheard of in the US. Honestly I believe it is the only humane approach. So I was wondering if pseido and 7OH were strong enough to do this specifically because doctors here won’t prescribe a 3 day course of short acting opioids for this purpose.

 

[Syntherize]

I agree and was previously addicted to 300mg a day of pseudo. I was more talking about using the kratom alkaloids to bridge 2-3 days of acute fentanyl withdrawal specifically for the purpose of excreting the fentanyl and inducing suboxone. I wondered if anyone had experience with this or if they even felt the effects coming off of fentanyl because they don’t seem to hold me. I still go into fentanyl withdrawal even when taking high doses of pseudo/7oh

I would love to use heroin as a bridge medication to induce suboxone but I can’t find it anywhere. That’s what I’m talking about, using a short acting opioid to bridge acute withdrawals from fentanyl for 3 days so that you can safely induce suboxone; not prolonged use or switching permanently to the short acting opioid. It is a common medical approach in Canada currently because they acknowledge the difficulty and unrealistic expectation of enduring 2-3 days of acute fentanyl withdrawal to induce suboxone, which is what is demanded by US doctors. I found one hospital inpatient protocol in Oregon that called for the use of short acting opioids to bridge, following what is practiced in Canada, but otherwise it’s almost unheard of in the US. Honestly I believe it is the only humane approach. So I was wondering if pseido and 7OH were strong enough to do this specifically because doctors here won’t prescribe a 3 day course of short acting opioids for this purpose.

I’ve used heroin as a bridge to bupe followed by waiting 36hrs before inducing and I was fine, but since you say you can’t find heroin either try to find another drug like SR-17018 for instance. I never tried SR, but apparently lots of people are working with it and benefiting from its effectiveness. YMMV

 

[aspiringchemist]

I’ve used heroin as a bridge to bupe followed by waiting 36hrs before inducing and I was fine, but since you say you can’t find heroin either try to find another drug like SR-17018 for instance. I never tried SR, but apparently lots of people are working with it and benefiting from its effectiveness. YMMV

Ya i would absolutely use heroin to bridge if I could find it. In all honesty, if I found a solid dope source, I probably wouldn’t be able to resist ongoing use. I miss real heroin so much and find fentanyl to be an abomination of the opioid experience. I just happened to get strung out but I really don’t enjoy it all that much. A couple years ago good tar was available but try as I might, no luck lately.

I had success bridging for 72 hours with instant release morphine 15mg tablets taken rectally (plugged). Orally the morphine didn’t cover the withdrawal even at 75mg but just a half tablet (7.5mg) is adequate to abate my fent withdrawal, though 15mg is preferable and highly resembles IV administration imo (which I have done as well). The withdrawal from the fent is so intense and hard hitting that I need something that induces the rush such as plugging or injecting.

Ya I’ve been reading about SR17018. After reading your guys comments about 7OH and pseudo being effective while using or withdrawing from fentanyl, I decided to give it another shot at a higher dose. This morning a few hours after I smoked fentanyl, as withdrawal began to set in, instead of smoking more I decided to double my usual pseudo and 7OH dose. I took approximately 50mg pseudoindoxyl and 50mg 7OH in the form of high potency extract powders and to my complete surprise, it felt like fucking morphine. All my previous use of the alkaloids was in the 30-50mg range, I never went above this because I always had this weird eye wriggling sensation and incorrectly attributed this to kratom alkaloids but it was actually from smoking cannabis on amphetamine I now believe, but that’s neither here nor there.

So I spent the day interchangeably using 7OH and pseudo for one fix, fentanyl the next and it was fine. I just needed to take a higher dose. I had always wondered how people got up to such insane amounts and didn’t get that side effect in the eyes lol, but it really isn’t from kratom. I feel a little hopeful now that I know I can in fact use 7OH and pseudo to bridge to sub induction. Gonna place one last large order before the ban goes into effect.