Meth Crystal Meth. Where has the good meth gone? What's wrong with the methamphetamine in US? Everywhere j go it's garbage. What are they doing to it?

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

^Strength AND PURITY though?

If you tested two batches that both came in at x percent meth --- and one batch effected you way differently. (And there were no active cuts) --- Than we got somethin to talk about

 

[Keif' Richards]

I reckon this thread is probably in the right place. I´m thinking maybe we could make a name change though, something a little more concise just to help us get the right traffic.

I´m by no means an expert regarding Methamphetamine. I used pharmaceutical Amphetamines extensively in High School/College though; enough to know what there is to know about Amphetamines. I used Methamphetamine for the first time 6-7 years ago. Methamphetamine was not a thing in Boston. When I used it for the first time, it was everything pharm Amphetamines had taught me to expect... way stronger, more euphoric and longer-lasting.

Since starting my recovery journey, I´ve used Methamphetamine a handful of times. The first time I used it, it was great. Now, I´d say two years later, so 4 years ago now or so, the Meth changed. It changed how my clients were acting under the influence; way more paranoia, violence and spun behavior (taking things apart, organizing shit etc.). To me, it seemed that they were experiencing anxiety more than any other discernible symptom. They weren´t happy, laughing , horny... they just seemed anxious.

I have tried Meth over the past few years. I say, hands down, not even a contest, I would take Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) over any Meth that I´ve seen in the past few years. I have used Meth from the street and the same thing happened to me... I was feeling anxious/keyed up as soon as the drug hit me and not in a good way either. If the drug I´ve used out there is standard Meth, then I don´t know how they keep customers cause it is a shitty high.

 

[fuckabout89]

I reckon this thread is probably in the right place. I´m thinking maybe we could make a name change though, something a little more concise just to help us get the right traffic.

I´m by no means an expert regarding Methamphetamine. I used pharmaceutical Amphetamines extensively in High School/College though; enough to know what there is to know about Amphetamines. I used Methamphetamine for the first time 6-7 years ago. Methamphetamine was not a thing in Boston. When I used it for the first time, it was everything pharm Amphetamines had taught me to expect... way stronger, more euphoric and longer-lasting.

Since starting my recovery journey, I´ve used Methamphetamine a handful of times. The first time I used it, it was great. Now, I´d say two years later, so 4 years ago now or so, the Meth changed. It changed how my clients were acting under the influence; way more paranoia, violence and spun behavior (taking things apart, organizing shit etc.). To me, it seemed that they were experiencing anxiety more than any other discernible symptom. They weren´t happy, laughing , horny... they just seemed anxious.

I have tried Meth over the past few years. I say, hands down, not even a contest, I would take Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) over any Meth that I´ve seen in the past few years. I have used Meth from the street and the same thing happened to me... I was feeling anxious/keyed up as soon as the drug hit me and not in a good way either. If the drug I´ve used out there is standard Meth, then I don´t know how they keep customers cause it is a shitty high.

I wouldnt say its that bad but it just varies from time to time.

 

[YusufIslam]

This is such a popular belief I really feel like the methamphetamine nowadays is pretty pure and the problem is we have a tolerance and when that happens we become immune the effects. Try taking a break for 2 weeks I promise you if you try getting high you will be super high

Purity does not equal potency as you can have meth that is 90% purity but 0% potency as it it completely levomethamphetamine with no dextromethamphetamine in it at any levels which is what determines potency levels.

 

[YusufIslam]

ahh we just did this with MDMA --- that said, what is the major difference in end products?

P2P, Pseudo --- isn't 1mg of meth 1mg of meth no matter how it was made? (Honest questions)

No as as methamphetamine manufactured from (1S,2S)-pseudoephedrine)/d-Pseudo is pure dextromethamphetamine which primarily releases dopamine and to a lesser extent serotonin. Methamphetamine manufactured from P2P is racamic meth withup of 50%Dextromethamphetamine/50 % levomethamphetamine which only releases large amounts of norepinephrine which is what causes the negative effects people experience from meth which also last longer than what the effects of d-meth do. Then

Also Methamphetamine manufactured from (1R,2R)-pseudoephedrine is pure levomethamphetamine which will only cause norepinephrine release and the negative effects from it

 

[YusufIslam]

^Strength AND PURITY though?

If you tested two batches that both came in at x percent meth --- and one batch effected you way differently. (And there were no active cuts) --- Than we got somethin to talk about

No it's purity and potency.

If you had two tested two batches of of meth that both came in at 90% purity but one batch affected you differently than the other than that would mean that they have different potency levels (amount of d-meth in the batches) which enantiomer testing would needed to done to confirm.

 

[YusufIslam]

Since starting my recovery journey, I´ve used Methamphetamine a handful of times. The first time I used it, it was great. Now, I´d say two years later, so 4 years ago now or so, the Meth changed. It changed how my clients were acting under the influence; way more paranoia, violence and spun behavior (taking things apart, organizing shit etc.). To me, it seemed that they were experiencing anxiety more than any other discernible symptom. They weren´t happy, laughing , horny... they just seemed anxious.

I have tried Meth over the past few years. I say, hands down, not even a contest, I would take Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) over any Meth that I´ve seen in the past few years. I have used Meth from the street and the same thing happened to me... I was feeling anxious/keyed up as soon as the drug hit me and not in a good way either. If the drug I´ve used out there is standard Meth, then I don´t know how they keep customers cause it is a shitty high.

Sounds like that the meth where you are is mostly levomethamphetamine with little or no d-meth in it. Since levomethamphetamine only releases norepinephrine which causes peripheral stimulation and adrenergic activity with produce mostly negative effects on people (specifically the ones you mentioned) I would say that this is a very likely possibility

 

[fuckabout89]

One thats obvious is meth made from ephedrine feels very good.

 

[YusufIslam]

One thats obvious is meth made from ephedrine feels very good.

Only methamphetamine from l-ephedrine which makes dextromethamphetamine feels good. Methamphetamine made from d-ephedrine won't feel good as what it makes is levomethamphetamine which is what causes all the negative effects people experience from meth.

 

[latenighter]

The stuff that I'm seeing around is pretty good. But I just got a taste the other day after a 14 year break. After one hit my head was all tingly like back in the day. Like your hair is standing straight up.

But I do miss the stuff from the last 90's early 2000's. Back then in Cali glass was a novelty, something that we saw now and again.

The good stuff was yellow or white rocks. I'm far less informed than many here on the varieties of meth formulation but I'm pretty sure this old stuff was P2P.

We called it apples because when smoked it had an apple taste. The stuff was bomb. It had some weird empathy effect. Like getting the urge to call people you had wronged and apologize to them. Some deep shit lol.

I'd love to try out some of that today

 

[fuckabout89]

The stuff that I'm seeing around is pretty good. But I just got a taste the other day after a 14 year break. After one hit my head was all tingly like back in the day. Like your hair is standing straight up.

But I do miss the stuff from the last 90's early 2000's. Back then in Cali glass was a novelty, something that we saw now and again.

The good stuff was yellow or white rocks. I'm far less informed than many here on the varieties of meth formulation but I'm pretty sure this old stuff was P2P.

We called it apples because when smoked it had an apple taste. The stuff was bomb. It had some weird empathy effect. Like getting the urge to call people you had wronged and apologize to them. Some deep shit lol.

I'd love to try out some of that today

Yeah I love good meth lol.

 

[fuckabout89]

Only methamphetamine from l-ephedrine which makes dextromethamphetamine feels good. Methamphetamine made from d-ephedrine won't feel good as what it makes is levomethamphetamine which is what causes all the negative effects people experience from meth.

Yeah I seen a guy who tried old Nazi meth and he said that shit was strong. The Nazis had special chemistry abilities.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

I'm surprised people don't cut meth with some of the stimmy RCs in an attempt to increase profits. I've never smoked/snorted meth myself. I think I got meth bombed in an X pill once. I really dislike all speedy drugs aside from MDMA so I know meth wasn't for me (tried all the different types of pharma speed).

I'd be careful about any substance coming in from Mexico these days. I don't know how much meth is still made locally but as far as I know the Mexican cartels control the flow of that and I think most all heroin now. Tons of shit has been showing up in "heroin" as we've seen. It wouldn't surprise me at all to here they've started getting supplied something new from China to put in their other main product. Since on the heroin side they've massive increased profits while shipping less weight and getting the users even more addicted. I'm no chemistry major but I know I could easily sneak some of these low per mg dose RCs into meth and no one would be the wiser. The fact that I might start with shards in one hand and power in the other doesn't make a difference (I can hide it). But I'll stop there to avoid breaking the rules.

I'm sure some small scale local meth production still goes on. But I highly doubt it's as widespread as 10-20 years ago. I'd also be very suspicious of anything coming out of those small labs for many reasons. Unless the guy is like a pure geek that doesn't use himself producing a small batch for close friends or something.

I haven't been around any meth heads in awhile now. If it's always like whatever I got in that X pill I fucking hate it. Stuff like adderall I can sorta tolerate for the first several hours. But then I get the phase where I can't sleep (usually for 2 days) even off a really small does. The euphoria is alright but the coming down part fucking sucks. If meth is worse than that I don't want it. MDMA is as close as I'd prefer to get. Although I've heard the pharma-version can be really really nice if you enjoy a nice speedball.

 

[Esperighanto]

I'm surprised people don't cut meth with some of the stimmy RCs in an attempt to increase profits.

There's an exceptional absence of RC stimulants right now, and meth is Tylenol-cheap.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

There's an exceptional absence of RC stimulants right now, and meth is Tylenol-cheap.

True I guess. I don't keep up with the RC scene anymore and stimulants were never my thing.

But when "bath salts" and things like PV were more common on the market I never heard of anyone attempting to punch up the potency of locally available meth with them. I also found it very surprising that no one ever attempted to pass the RCs off as addreall/other pharma stims. Especially at the prices I knew the RC stimulants were going for at the time (thousands of doses for next to no investment).

It's surprising because at the exact same time there were tons of folks making fake pharma opioid pills using the flood of cheap opioid RCs on the market. Later on they started doing it with faked xanax presses as well. Although at first it was actual alprazolam. They were just putting 3-6mg in each tablet instead of the advertised 2mg (most fake presses were bars). Later on they moved on to making fake presses with other RC benzos. Since they were even cheaper (and less risk legally).

I've always wondered why the stimulant market seems to be the only class of drugs where this isn't common. I suppose it's because it was easier to access them legally and they were easier to manufacture locally. But from what I can tell local manufacture of meth is on the decline and has been replaced by cartel cooked meth coming into the country in bulk from down south. There are still some people shaking and baking around but from what I heard it became much harder to obtain enough material to make it worthwhile for anyone doing it at scale. So it's mainly only practiced locally by users instead of people looking to profit off selling it.

I mean look at the market for MDMA/X. Its always been flooded with faked presses and RCs being passed off as legit MDMA. It was so flooded with knock offs that entire groups of users sprang up that preferred the research chemicals designed to mimic its effects. There were always plenty of assholes out there willing to take the risk to sell something as MDMA that they knew would be harmful/deadly. This was accepted as a fact of life to the point where an entire industry sprang up around test kits and harm reduction. LSD was the same thing. Pretty much all classes of drugs on the black market have this problem but you never hear about it with meth.

 

[Esperighanto]

Pretty much all classes of drugs on the black market have this problem but you never hear about it with meth.

In the cases of everything that has ever been misrepresented, there are easier ways to make something you can pass off as it. I suspect that the ease of creation for super clean meth is why it's never been intentionally misrepresented like that.

 

[Keif' Richards]

My understanding is that there is no need to cut Methampetamine with anything. It has become just insanely cheap to produce thanks to combined factors that led to the so-called ¨Super Labs¨ in Mexico. I was born in 1990, so as a youngster, the ¨Meth House; Meth Cook; Meth Lab¨ were all commonly discussed terms. Even in Boston, where in fact, there was no Methamphetamine at the time, everyone knew of a ¨Meth Lab¨ operating at such-and-such-as-street.

Where am I going with this... Ah yes, I´ve heard a lot of folks a generation older than myself who have experienced the different waves of Meth usage. For instance, I know at least two guys on here who are over 60 and still partying. It seems like people actually have a great deal of nostalgia for the ¨Shake and Bake¨ aka Homemade Methamphetamine. This provokes questions, right? If some relative amateur in unsterile conditions, using a soda bottle and such, can produce better Meth than what is currently on the street... what the fuck is that all about? Considering what seems like a free-hand south of the border, allegedly adept chemists and equipment, I can only suppose that there is something intentional or semi-intentional going on.

My #1 candidate is that they have cut corners in the manufacturing process to save money. I call this the ¨Panera Bread¨ model of Methamphetamine manufacture, but you will see all of this in my upcoming TED Talk. Anyway, Panera used to be awesome, remember? I´m no ¨soup-head¨ or anything, but that chowder slapped; right up until they developed a loyal customer base. It took ~3 years after Panera got shitty before I put it together that they had sacrificed their quality. All jokes aside, we have a ruthlessly loyal customer base who are more and more dedicated to the rush while also being unable to discern the difference fully due to their heavy usage.

@YusufIslam hey man I don´t know if you´re an artist-formerly-known-as Cat Stevens fan. I was rocking out to Matthew & Son this morning. It´s what I always throw on when I´m late for work. Now, your point. My understanding is that there would not be any reason for a chemist to produce L-Methamphetamine exclusively. I assume you were meaning I must have picked up Racemic Methamphetamine and the presence of the L-Methamphetamine was causing the stated issues.

I´m no expert. I´ve taken enough Amphetamines to be able to discern some basics though. The issue was not just that I had tachycardia, tension or otherwise peripheral nervous system effects, although they were a factor. I can deal with that stuff. I´m saying the psychological effects were of immediate anxiety, discomfort and a malaise that bordered on wanting it to be over. There is something more to it, at least from my perspective, with the specific drugs that I encountered.

Anyone else relate to this sensation that I´m trying to describe?

 

[Esperighanto]

Anyone else relate to this sensation that I´m trying to describe?

I strongly suspect that this relates to changes in neurochemistry over one's life, as opposed to the actual product on the street changing. Just my perspective on it.

My #1 candidate is that they have cut corners in the manufacturing process to save money

I haven't seen any analyses indicating leftover solvents, or synthesis byproducts, nor cutting agents. If you have any though I'd love to see data on it!

 

[jsinger]

First off, unless you're prepared to spend some cash, I wouldn't bother trying to source up the chain. Remember those guys won't sell a $20 or $40 bag. You might want to add a couple zeros to those numbers or maybe three zeros LOL. And where are you located if you don't mind me asking? You don't need to say exactly what city but what region. Like for example I live in northwestern Arizona, and I'll be honest the crystal here the quality is great no issues at all. And prices aren't bad either I get a gram for $20 and that Gram will keep me up for 3 days if it's just me I'm doing it or if I don't stop and force myself to sleep

Im in NE Florida and shits went fucked up fast. I was getting oz for 2 and fire to stepped all over. Cant find anything decent and basically need to start Back at bottom. Half tempted to get a misdemeanor and spend weekend in jail. Just to hopefully get plugged in. Cocaine ain’t the same

 

[jsinger]

^Strength AND PURITY though?

If you tested two batches that both came in at x percent meth --- and one batch effected you way differently. (And there were no active cuts) --- Than we got somethin to talk about

It sure sucks.