When I was on methadone I was prescribed 50mg a day. When I got carries I'd sometimes double up and take 100mg and I'd get high.
I really like methadone and will gladly take a methadone oral high over street H any day because my tolerance is high and the H in the UK is even shitter now than it was prior to the Taliban taking over Afghanistan again.
When I first started getting high on methadone maintenance, I never tried it prior, I started out by tripling my maintenance dose, now I need to quadruple or quintuple it unfortunately.
@Dextro .45 are you trying to piss me off bro?! First, nobody can make objective statements regarding an experience that is almost entirely subjective. Secondly, Oxymorphone (Opana; Numorphan) is better than Oxycodone. That isn´t just my opinion. 9 out of 10 Americans prefer the fucked-upedness of Oxymorphone as per a statistic I just made up. I think I´m experiencing an emotion similar to jealousy when I read about your daily drug cocktail. Good for you man!
Like everything, there is a huge difference between a person who is relatively naive to powerful Opioids and those who are dependent/addicted already. For said naive individual, Methadone would likely be evert bit as euphoric, pleasurable and powerful as a ¨more favorable¨ Opioid like Oxycodone. Also, as with all Opioids in a naive individual, nausea can be quite bad. In my experience, Methadone is more prone to nausea than Oxycodone, but pretty similar to Morphine.
A totally naive individual, who doesn´t experience heavy nausea, is likely to feel nice and intoxicated for ~10 hours with a few more hours of rapidly diminishing effects. This kid I knew, who had experience with small dosages of Oxycodone, decided he wanted to try Methadone. I gave him some and told him how much he could take. I explained the delayed onset of action. He fell for the trap and redosed the entirety of the 50mg Methadone I had given him when he did not feel effects fast enough. I had told him to take it in 25% increments at most but he thought he knew what we was doing.
50mg Methadone had this kid violently nauseous for 36 and maybe even 48 full hours. He was bedridden with the puke bucket next to his bed. I guess the point is, it is a powerful Opioid agonist with all of the hallmarks one would expect. The primary difference is that Methadone lasts approximately twice as long as most regularly prescribed Opioid agonists. Fun fact, Methadone was chosen as the first true ¨maintenance drug¨ for its duration of action more than anything. Hence we have a functional drug, yet it is often described as ¨not enough¨ by long-term users. It just doesn´t hit all f those spots that we want hit, but it comes really close.
A person with a history of Opioid usage is likely to view Methadone as one of the least desirable drugs available on the street. One can buy a hit of Fentanyl 10x as strong as that 50mg Methadone for 10 bucks. The slow onset of action makes Methadone inherently less likeable when compared to Opioids with a short(er) onset .
If I were to sit in a sensory deprivation tank after taking my dose of Methadone in the morning, I´m sure I could start to identify the drug´s action with some accuracy. When I´m living life, going to work, doing fun shit, I don´t even notice. This is, in my opinion, the ideal effect from Methadone as a maintenance medication. It works in the background. Just because you don´t notice it at all times, it is working. It keeps you in homeostasis, which in its own way feels good when you have broken free from compulsive usage.
Keif is 100% right, oxymorphone is better than oxycodone, everyone who's tried them both at decent doses/tolerance say oxymorphone is better.
Also a lot of people who tried IV methadone ampoules (I don't mean shooting methadone solution, syrup etc.) have said it's better than IV Heroin.
Other fully synthetic opioids that are better than oxycodone are dipipanone and ketobemidone.
Eukadol (Oxycodone HCL) was synthesized in Germany in the early 1900’s and patented ……along with Dilaudid (Hydromorphone) hypodermic tablets & injectable formulas, Heroin (Diacetylmorphine), Morphine, etc
Most opioids derived from Morphine are very sedating, histamine release, and frequently cause nausea, tolerance & addiction (obviously)
Eukadol (Oxycodone) which is synthesized from theBaine is actually a non-sedating POTENT and VERY EUPHORIC mu-opioid receptor agonist, with excellent oral bioavailability. In the original patent & Eukadol literature it actually specifies the drugs “narcotic type euphoria similar to Cocaine” ……Eukadol was actually Adolf Hitlers favourite drug, Dr. Morell often providing Eukadol via I.V. injection
Why did Purdue Pharma select Oxycodone for its NEW OxyContin……when MS-Contin (Morphine Sulphate) already existed……because oral Oxycodone is actually SIGNIFICANTLY more pleasurable then oral Dilaudid and various morphine type compounds
In my entire lifetime…….only Oxycodone & Ritalin (Methylphenidate) gave me significant overpowering euphoria, even better than injecting decent Heroin from 20+ years ago when it actually was Diacetylmorphine (which was confirmed by my urine analysis which showed the presence of 6-MAM & Morphine)
I will NEVER forget that unbelievable EUPHORIC BLISS that oral Oxycodone gave me …..ever
Oxycodone is definitely sedating.
Also Adolf Hitler's doctor didn't tell him he was giving him oxycodone/Eukadol after the 1944 July 4th bombing assassination attempt.
He did like the injections but didn't know what they were or that it was an opioid until he was rattling in the Fuhrer Bunker and soldiers had run in to the ruins of Berlin to see if they could get opioids from bombed pharmacies.
He also didn't know that he was being given Pervitin (methamphetamine) injections for his fatigue from mid-late 1942 or early 1943 to the Fuhrer Bunker.
I don't know if he knew or not that he was using cocaine eyedrops for his Parkinson's symptoms in 1945.
I can answer this beyond the obvious euphiroa aspect you covered. It boils down to two main things: 1) They had applied for and been granted an exclusive patent for time-release oxycodone. Which they knew would bring in massive profits if they could market it widely to people normally adverse to taking opioids. Number 2) is that the general public was naive about oxycodone being as addictive as morphine. Back in the 90s if you told someone you were on a morphine pill they figured you had cancer or were going to die soon. People were afraid of it and the other handful of opioids they knew about from TV and ER visits. They were weary of becoming junkies. These people were not aware that taking oxycodone (and hydrocodone) was the same thing as being placed on potent opioids/opiates they already knew about.
In other words oxycodone did not have the stigma of being "pharma heroin" at that time where morphine already did. The time release formulation of OxyContin is just the tip of the ice berg. In the mid-late 90s it was very common for GPs to prescribe potent opioids to very young children for things like minor throat soreness/coughing. Old well known medications like codiene were quickly being replaced with patented formulations of stuff like time release hydrocodone (Tussinex). The latter was deemed a better drug for children because of the taste (it tastes like candy) and having less issues with histamine reactions/possible life threatening allergic reactions.
It was also much more effective orally (more doses per weight = more profits) and would be made from a wider variety of material. Like the opium pods that were legal to grow within America at scale because they produced mostly thebaine instead of morphine. This fact is why you start to see a ton of new opioids hit the consumer market (meaning: tablets/orally dosed at home) starting in the 90s. Most all of them were derived from thebaine (hydrocodone, oxycodone, oxymorphone, hydromorphone and many others). The pharma companies maintained a massive crop of opium farms in places like Arizona at that time.
In the 80s-2000s there was a race going on between the pharma companies to get exclusive rights to market and patent re-formulations of existing drugs (usually through a time release mechinism) and patent new drugs. These would be aggressively marketed directly to GPs. When prescribed they cost much more money than existing generic drugs where no one had exclusive patent rights. The patents were set to expire every 10-15 years but often a company would re-formulate the time release and apply for another patent to extend that time frame.
The above allowed multiple people in the chain to charge insurance companies a lot of money on each individual pill/prescription. Something that cost pennies to produce could be sold for $1-10 per tablet on the controlled market within America. Most regular people never saw that cost coming out of their own pocket because insurance was picking up 80-100% of the bill in most cases. In other words: They ran a big scam. The more addicts they created the more profits they could bring in. Far more than they could make selling heroin to existing junkies on the street.
These methods were already well established by the time the 1990s rolled around. Purdue made massive profits off marketing Valium in a similar way during the 1950s-1970s. They were just pulling the same trick with a different class of drugs they already knew were addictive.
They have pulled the same trick multiple times: Market some new drug they claim isn't as addictive as the old cheap drug. Even though they know it's usually more addictive. Then it takes everyone 20 years or so to catch up and everyone says "How could we allowed this to happen?". Rinse and repeat and do it again.
Once the second war in the middle east started and the American military allowed opium farming again we see a massive uptick in production of all opioids starting around 2003. Which they kept going into the mid-2010s. After 2015 or so we start to see a massive decline in production once those lands were taken over by native factions again that outlawed opium farming. The US military wasn't there guarding the crops anymore. It's important to note that we saw both a jump in production on the legal and illegal sides of the opioid market in America during those years. Heroin (real heroin) started pouring in all over the country during the mid-late 2000s-2010s despite only being a staple drug in large open-air drug markets in select cities before. We hadn't seen heroin in every small town in America since the 1980s when it was run out after the war on drugs started. Heroin was one of the first things they stamped out in small town America because it wasn't as socially acceptable as cocaine was.
Anyway, my greater point in the legal side (pharma companies and families running them) were working hand-in-hand with the illegal side of the market. They knew that there would eventually be push-back with stuff like oxycodone. But it was very useful for them to produce a new generation of addicts. Who would eventually be forced to turn to street heroin and later back to drugs like bupe. In other words: They profited and won three times. Four if you count each death being a good thing, which they do (the same people that sell opioids on the legal market are the same people that advocate for massive reduction in the world's population).
This has gotten long (most of my posts do) but I've barely scratched the surface on this. The actual marketing they did towards the poor/middle class Americans in mostly rural-suburbian areas was really fucked up. Their own internal documents talk about how they wanted to market to elderly and middle aged patients because they knew their children would eventually get into the substances. They also go at length about marketing certain substances like tussinex (liquid time release hydrocodone) to very young children being a top priority because it would prime them to becoming addicted later in teenage/early adult years when they were exposed to opioids again as a result of injuries later in life.
The documents are also filled with casual racism towards poor-middle class white people who were the primary targets of the marketing effort. It reads like their goal from the start was to cause a drug crisis among white Americans and to bust up the family unit within that class of people. Ensuring that their children would not go on to have stable families of their own. There was a lot of that going on around the same time in other parts of society (the so-called "latch key kid" issue was primarily a problem among white families).
What I'm saying is they targetted the white communities in America with opioids like they targetted the black communities with crack cocaine. Different drug but same issues resulted on both sides. Same result on both sides: Bust up the family unit and make such people more reliant on the Government/system. If you manage to kill a bunch in the process that's great. They don't want us alive in the first place.
I personally believe I was primed to fall into the trap as my own GP as a child prescribed myself and my siblings liquid hydrocodone multiple times and I was regularly given hydrocodone tablets (usually about 5mg) for minor pain complaints and stuff like headaches. In my parent's defense my father eventually figured it out and stopped allowing the GP to give us the liquid hydrocodone and stopped breaking tablets in half to give me every few months after he realized he himself was getting addicted to opioids in the mid-late 90s. But by then the damage was already done.
I don't know where you're getting your info but a lot of that post is blatantly wrong and even conspiratorial nonsense.
1. Timed Release Opioids : The only one created in the 80's and lost it's patent in 1995 was MSContin by Purdue. They created OxyContin cause they wanted the massive profits that a patent allows a company to make.
Hydrocodone wasn't released as a slow release tablet, ZoHydro being the first, until early 2014.
I'd have thought a lot of doctor's and other people in the US would have heard of oxycodone prior to OxyContin cause Percodan and Percocet had been around since the 1950's or 60's.
2. Thebaine : Semi-synthetic opioids such as oxycodone which are supposedly more often than not made from thebaine nowadays can also be made from codeine and morphine.
3. USA Opium Poppy Farming : This was banned in the USA under the Opium Poppy Control Act 1942, a lot of farmers in California, the state with the most Growers at the time even had what was called the Poppy Rebellion and some farmers grew for another year but they that attempted a crop the year after were either lucky and just had their crop destroyed in the field, harvested and burnt or if very unlucky and this happened to hardly any, they were taken to court and I think some served time.
A lot of farmers and politicians and the public found it strange that just as the USA enters WW2 and the allies are going to need huge amounts of opium/Morphine the USA banned it and it had raised significantly in price too cause (world) wars create massive opioid demand.
It was banned cause of anti-opium/drug user BS.
A few people (Something like less than 100!) had been caught in the US in the 1930's either growing opium at home and using it (One guy was a Sikh Indian immigrant who'd used it for years back home and continued for a few years in the US until some how the Narcotics Officers found out.) or they were rattling morphine/Heroin users and had snatched dried pods from farms in California to make tea.
The majority caught were actually old immigrants from Eastern Europe who'd been growing and using poppy tea for years.
I've previously read that the American airmen volunteers fighting Japan in the China as the Chinese Fighting Tigers, working more so with the Chinese Nationalists under Chiang-Kai-Shek aka the Kuomintang (KMT) than the far less corrupt Mao and the Chinese Communists, were like the KMT, smuggling opium.
Apparently they were getting it smuggled back to the US so it could be used to make morphine for the US govt and military. The KMT often traded corruptly with the Japanese instead of fighting them, they'd trade opium for Japanese arms.
Another article also said that the US govt was importing opium from Mexico too.
Pharmaceutical corporations in the US don't have licenses to grow them in massive amounts needed to supply demand.
They may get the rights, like universities,to grow or source some for reason but it's not massive amounts.
Also the mostly thebaine poppies you're thinking of are grown in Tasmania, Australia.
What you're thinking of if you saw massive fields in Arizona or in the Pacific North West in the 90's and 2000's will have farmers growing them for dried flower floral arrangements and possibly but I doubt it also poppy seed for food and oil use.
In the 90's till the early 2000's on eBay you could by large amounts of cheap dried poppies that a lot of users were buying but the DEA found out and got the USA eBay to stop selling them and apparently warmed companies selling too.
4. Targeting "poor middle class" white people with opioids : I think you generally mean white working class people who could afford insurance cause all it was was capitalists doing what capitalists always do under capitalism and that is try to turn a profit and aiming at those who are most likely to be your customer and in the US white people made up the majority and those with insurance would have been the targets.
Capitalism is the problem.
Also you clearly don't pay much attention to US politics but the oligarchs who run those companies all tend to be Republican and hate government and hate welfare, so the idea that they want you dependent on the government/system is idiotic.
The Republican's would rather you die, they want zero government assistance for the average citizen, poor or disabled.
The idea the oligarchy and their Republican tools want people dependent on the state is far-right conspiracy BS. If they wanted you dependent on the state the welfare system would be far, far better and far easier to get on.
5. "Second war in the Middle East" and the US allowing opium growing again.
: This is fucking painfully ahistorical BS and the fact you not only didn't name the war or country (The War on Terror and Afghanistan.) and called it the "Second war in the Middle East", shows how little you know about US history, Afghanistan, the Middle East and war involving all those three.
I like Americans and this website has a lot of intelligent one's but fuck me the stereotype is that you's can only name places you've have bombed and you couldn't do it!
The country is called Afghanistan and the war there from 7th October 2001 to 30th August 2021 involving the US, NATO and other nations was not only not the second war in Afghanistan, it wasn't even the second war that the US has been involved in in the Middle East never mind not being the second Middle East war.
Not sure if you know but civilisation started in the Middle East, Mesopotamia which is modern day Iraq, there's been a lot more than two.
The US even operated in the area during WW2 before it started trying to make enemies of everyone there.
Anyway, opium was being in the 90's in Afghanistan by the Taliban who pretended to have suppressed it totally in the areas they controlled but (And this was what was assumed they'd do 2021 onwards but they've not.) really they made deals with large growers and traffickers in the country to only grow a certain amount so demand would continue to grow increasing prices significantly but not increasing supply.
The Northern Alliance (Different warlords who worked together against the Taliban and mostly controlled Northern States) continued to grow opium though, it was these people who were US allies when the US invaded who started growing more and cause they were allies and Afghan's were not only extremely poor but they also didn't want to turn them against the US/allies, they gave up destroying opium after 2003.
The Taliban began to tax it and Heroi and later ended up even growing it in certain areas and operating and taxing Heroin labs to help fund their war.
Over the course of the war no more than 2% of Heroin used in North America came from Afghanistan.
Even though some of the big dealers were on the CIA payroll there's unfortunately no evidence the CIA was helping smuggle opium/Heroin out of Afghanistan to the US and no evidence that Afghan Opium was being used by US pharma companies to make opioids.
The US already buys around 75% of opioids that Turkey produces and a load from Tasmania and even some pharma grade opium gum from India and all of that is above board.
There was a push from 2004 - 2007 or '08 to do on Afghanistan with opium what had been done in Turkey in the early 70's and have them grow it for the legal pharmaceutical market and buy it all up but the US was against it saying Afghanistan was too corrupt.
Right, I think that's enough shite wrote by me. I'm off for more methylphenidate.
