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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Safer/healthier, Ritalin (methylphenidate) or Valium?
- Thread starter JohnBoy2000
- Start date
KurtAurelius
Bluelighter
I didn’t ask for Atomoxetine as from my memory it’s got a fairly dirty profile, with active metabolites and it prolongs the QT interval.
Long half life which is more neutral, those successful with it say this is helpful.
However I’m not qualified, so my statements may not be indicative..
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4DQSAR
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Indeed, but affinity ≠ effaciacy.
PET imaging using primate models showed it to be quite selective - NMDA antagonism may well be part of it's pharmacology.
But the simple LogP value shows that while yes, it will inhibit sodium channels - you don't find many of those in the brain (none).
PET imaging using primate models showed it to be quite selective - NMDA antagonism may well be part of it's pharmacology.
But the simple LogP value shows that while yes, it will inhibit sodium channels - you don't find many of those in the brain (none).
JohnBoy2000
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Thankfully I've never injected.
But the euphoria and effect of meth is like almost nothing else.
It almost seems a shame it can't be micro-dosed safely.
Speaking of which;
I micro dosed it in 2019 and felt wonderful, productive, sharp.
I did the same in 2022 and would suffer for about 6 weeks after from intense emotional roller coasters.
Responses to it may vary dramatically.
By far the largest demographic using meth in the UK are homosexual men, usually using it to partake in extended group sex parties.
JohnBoy2000
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I was on this for about 18 months.
I basically sweated constantly.
It kept my heart rate around 100 bpm at all times.
I took it in combination with mianserin, later mirtazapine.
It's very effective as an NRI, but there's zero affect on dopamine, no euphoria.
Currently, I just need to edge up my dopamine occasionally.
As prior, a meth mircodose would be ideal, but it's proven itself to be far too destructive and toxic at even the lowest dose.
BadBoy377
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Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Could you tell us a bit more, please?
How long did you microdose for in 2019 and 2022? Was it like a daily thing or occasional use? What would you consider a micro dose? Do you know if it was d-meth or racemic?
Very interested to hear more about your experiences there.
Do you really think it can't be used safely? Is this due to the substance itself or behaviour it can be associated with.
While no drug is completely safe for everyone if a medicine like Desoxyn is used as a legitimate medicine ( for some severe medical conditions) and as a performance enhancing substance by some (often quite elite) people could it not be used relatively safely?
opiatekrzy
Bluelighter
Methylphenidate is very toxic to your cardiovascular system it is a dirty stimulant respectfully. It has even been linked to cancer in some studies I believe I heard before. Valium is a benzodiazepine which has the potential to be extremely physically addictive but I would say is softer on your body than methylphenidate
JohnBoy2000
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I'd love to know the answer to these questions also.
In 2019 the effect I experienced was smooth, I noticed an increase in alertness and cognizance, and it was productive.
I didn't use it excessively as I was coming off using strattera (as above), and wanted something to boost physical energy.
It DEFINITELY sharpened mental focus and clarity, concentration power.
But didn't benefit physical energy (this may have been how my CNS was "morphing" at the time however), for that reason I saw no purpose in continuing to use it.
In 2022 I began using it more so to simply fend off depressive like symptoms and basically get through the days.
Even small micro doses then had rebound effects of HORRIBLE emotion tumult, feelings of regret, intense melancholia, and any improvement in cognitive clarity I had experienced in 2019 was now absent.
So it seems a drug which can induce effects that are highly subjective to the position of the nervous system when its dosed. To combat depressive symptoms and used to boost mood if you're feeling like absolute shit (the reason I suspect the majority of meth users dose it) it's a dangerous and toxic drug.
I've never heard of athletes using it as a performance booster?
It has extremely heavy cardiac effects.
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Like I always say, there is a huge issue, I feel, when drugs are not packaged in easy-to-understand dosage units. I think it is often overlooked. I´m not sure what constitutes a micro-dose of Methamphetamine. We know that Racemic Methamphetamine is twice as potent as Racemic Amphetamine. Furthermore, Racemic Methamphetamine is equipotent (I know chemistry nerds, I´m oversimplifying, just follow me) to Dextro-Amphetamine and thus Dextro-Methamphetamine is twice as potent as the former.
Adderall, is the brand name for a common form of Amphetamine. It is essentially racemic, but the formula for Adderall is a little bit different. I don´t want to muddy the waters with superfluous information, so if we could, let´s just play as if our Adderall is pure Racemic Amphetamine. The common benchmark dosage for Racemic Amphetamine is 20mg orally. Tests performed when the drug was in its pharmaceutical infancy back in the 20´s-30´s used 20mg as a dosage. This dosage was enough for the study subjects to use terms like ¨exhilarating¨ to describe the experience.
So what do we call a microdose? If we are feeling ¨exhilarated¨, that is probably too much. If you have racemic Methamphetamine, this would imply a starting benchmark dosage of approximately 10mg Methamphetamine PO. If you ask me, microdosing would imply no more than 5mg Methamphetamine. Of course if we are using D-Methamphetamine, the highest ¨micro-dose¨ wouldn´t be more than 2.5mg D-Methamphetamine; probably less.
These measurements are too fine for the naked eye. They are too fine for anything less than a quality, miligram-level scale. My point is, anyone who just has a baggie of Meth is not going to be able to microdose without the appropriate equipment. Considering personal discipline is huge in this exercise, the idea of eyeballing material leaves us open to estimations that err more on the side of ¨more¨ than ¨less¨.
The further issue is purity. You would have to be reasonably sure of the purity of your Methamphetamine, otherwise the exercise is pointless. These fluctuations mean little to the addict who is just loading shot after shot. For the person dedicated to discipline and longevity, it´s a problem. This could be somewhat averted by buying in bulk quantity. Then, regardless of the objective purity, you could establish a benchmark based upon both estimation and calibration based upon your body´s reaction.
In short, I think it´ś possible. You need great discipline and absolutely a means of separating dosage units effectively.
This is another great time for @Keif' Richards to spin one of his favorite yarns; the yarn of Volumetric Dosing. Please see the sticky at the top of these forums for a more in-depth discussion. What you are describing is a perfect venue for volumetric dosing. For instance. You put 100mg Methamphetamine in 100ml of sterile water. Obtain an oral syringe with milliliter units on the side. You can now dose 1mg at a time by drawing up 1ml of solution at a time.
If you´re thinking of microdosing, you can take this to the next level. Go ahead and obtain an insulin syringe. Remove the needle. You now have a means of measuring units that are 1/100ths of a milliliter. Then the sky is the limit. You can microdose until the cows come home.
If you´re looking to treat your dopamine system right, there are things I feel you have to do. You have to be able to get 30 minutes of physical activity a day. It´s non-negotiable for your long-term physical and mental health. It doesn´t have to be beating the pavement on a hot day. It´s my belief that we all can find something we like that will get us our exercise. You can play fetch with your dog, run, swim, play some tennis, whatever. I am a pretty hardcore cyclist. I´ve commuted to work, appointments, bought groceries, year round, on my bike. I love riding and to me, it doesn´t even feel like excercise. I can ride for 2 hours straight easy. If I had to run, I´d be wanting to quit after 15 minutes.
You have to try to eat right too. I have Lupus and this is mainly what drove me into the arms of a more healthy diet. If I don´t eat right, I get a flare up and I´m out of commission for days. I can´t survive on Beefaroni. I know with the cost of food the way it is, this is hard. I know it´s easy to just get the cheap, processed shit and have that money available for other things. It makes a difference.
There are also supplements that are not incredibly expensive that you can factor into your routine. They are known for assisting the dopamine system and there are plenty of studies that confirm their benefit.
- L-Tyrosine/N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (Amino Acid)
- Mucuna Pruriens (Dopamine Precursor)
- Choline/Phospholipids
- Acetyl-L-Carnitine
In addition, you´ve gotta get away from the shit that kills your dopamine. Pornography, social media, doomscrolling. These are all things that we know factually destroy our dopamine systems. A lot of people I talk to wonder why they are depressed/anxious and they are glued to their screens 24/7. A lot of people want the solution to their problems but they are totally unwilling to make the changes necessary to get it.
I´m not holier than thou. I´m a major, ¨do as I say, not as I do¨ kind of philosopher. In my life, every day I personally am trying to do the things that make me happy and healthy. I am just as prone as the next person to get stuck on Youtube for 3 hours only to break away for a glass of water and a piss and not realize why I feel dirty, confused and anxious. Shit, it´s because that stuff is made to be addictive and destroys our minds. You´ve gotta try to do everything with purpose. If you´re not making someone else´s life better, shit, are you at least making YOURSELF better?
I know I went off on a huge tangent here. I´m hopin some of this is relevant to our readers.
Adderall, is the brand name for a common form of Amphetamine. It is essentially racemic, but the formula for Adderall is a little bit different. I don´t want to muddy the waters with superfluous information, so if we could, let´s just play as if our Adderall is pure Racemic Amphetamine. The common benchmark dosage for Racemic Amphetamine is 20mg orally. Tests performed when the drug was in its pharmaceutical infancy back in the 20´s-30´s used 20mg as a dosage. This dosage was enough for the study subjects to use terms like ¨exhilarating¨ to describe the experience.
So what do we call a microdose? If we are feeling ¨exhilarated¨, that is probably too much. If you have racemic Methamphetamine, this would imply a starting benchmark dosage of approximately 10mg Methamphetamine PO. If you ask me, microdosing would imply no more than 5mg Methamphetamine. Of course if we are using D-Methamphetamine, the highest ¨micro-dose¨ wouldn´t be more than 2.5mg D-Methamphetamine; probably less.
These measurements are too fine for the naked eye. They are too fine for anything less than a quality, miligram-level scale. My point is, anyone who just has a baggie of Meth is not going to be able to microdose without the appropriate equipment. Considering personal discipline is huge in this exercise, the idea of eyeballing material leaves us open to estimations that err more on the side of ¨more¨ than ¨less¨.
The further issue is purity. You would have to be reasonably sure of the purity of your Methamphetamine, otherwise the exercise is pointless. These fluctuations mean little to the addict who is just loading shot after shot. For the person dedicated to discipline and longevity, it´s a problem. This could be somewhat averted by buying in bulk quantity. Then, regardless of the objective purity, you could establish a benchmark based upon both estimation and calibration based upon your body´s reaction.
In short, I think it´ś possible. You need great discipline and absolutely a means of separating dosage units effectively.
This is another great time for @Keif' Richards to spin one of his favorite yarns; the yarn of Volumetric Dosing. Please see the sticky at the top of these forums for a more in-depth discussion. What you are describing is a perfect venue for volumetric dosing. For instance. You put 100mg Methamphetamine in 100ml of sterile water. Obtain an oral syringe with milliliter units on the side. You can now dose 1mg at a time by drawing up 1ml of solution at a time.
If you´re thinking of microdosing, you can take this to the next level. Go ahead and obtain an insulin syringe. Remove the needle. You now have a means of measuring units that are 1/100ths of a milliliter. Then the sky is the limit. You can microdose until the cows come home.
If you´re looking to treat your dopamine system right, there are things I feel you have to do. You have to be able to get 30 minutes of physical activity a day. It´s non-negotiable for your long-term physical and mental health. It doesn´t have to be beating the pavement on a hot day. It´s my belief that we all can find something we like that will get us our exercise. You can play fetch with your dog, run, swim, play some tennis, whatever. I am a pretty hardcore cyclist. I´ve commuted to work, appointments, bought groceries, year round, on my bike. I love riding and to me, it doesn´t even feel like excercise. I can ride for 2 hours straight easy. If I had to run, I´d be wanting to quit after 15 minutes.
You have to try to eat right too. I have Lupus and this is mainly what drove me into the arms of a more healthy diet. If I don´t eat right, I get a flare up and I´m out of commission for days. I can´t survive on Beefaroni. I know with the cost of food the way it is, this is hard. I know it´s easy to just get the cheap, processed shit and have that money available for other things. It makes a difference.
There are also supplements that are not incredibly expensive that you can factor into your routine. They are known for assisting the dopamine system and there are plenty of studies that confirm their benefit.
- L-Tyrosine/N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (Amino Acid)
- Mucuna Pruriens (Dopamine Precursor)
- Choline/Phospholipids
- Acetyl-L-Carnitine
In addition, you´ve gotta get away from the shit that kills your dopamine. Pornography, social media, doomscrolling. These are all things that we know factually destroy our dopamine systems. A lot of people I talk to wonder why they are depressed/anxious and they are glued to their screens 24/7. A lot of people want the solution to their problems but they are totally unwilling to make the changes necessary to get it.
I´m not holier than thou. I´m a major, ¨do as I say, not as I do¨ kind of philosopher. In my life, every day I personally am trying to do the things that make me happy and healthy. I am just as prone as the next person to get stuck on Youtube for 3 hours only to break away for a glass of water and a piss and not realize why I feel dirty, confused and anxious. Shit, it´s because that stuff is made to be addictive and destroys our minds. You´ve gotta try to do everything with purpose. If you´re not making someone else´s life better, shit, are you at least making YOURSELF better?
I know I went off on a huge tangent here. I´m hopin some of this is relevant to our readers.
JohnBoy2000
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 11, 2016
- Messages
- 2,650
5 mg was my first meth microdose.
No idea if it was d-meth etc., but it was subtle, yet awesome as a focus and concentration booster.
I wish my body would respond to such drugs and doses now, as it did then.
I was much healthier then, physically, emotionally and neurologically, it's overwhelmingly likely that plays a large part.
On the here and now, ritalin has minimal side effects for me, so I'm up to 15 mg, moving toward a potential 20 mg per day dose.
I've been absolutely blasting a high anti-oxidant diet lately (fresh juicing, among other things), perhaps that is causing improved tolerance and response.
No idea if it was d-meth etc., but it was subtle, yet awesome as a focus and concentration booster.
I wish my body would respond to such drugs and doses now, as it did then.
I was much healthier then, physically, emotionally and neurologically, it's overwhelmingly likely that plays a large part.
On the here and now, ritalin has minimal side effects for me, so I'm up to 15 mg, moving toward a potential 20 mg per day dose.
I've been absolutely blasting a high anti-oxidant diet lately (fresh juicing, among other things), perhaps that is causing improved tolerance and response.