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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

Although the drug may make users feel good when dancing, Molly has a definite crash. Messer says it's difficult to get to sleep, and the day after taking the drug, the user tends to chew the inside of gums, feels a need to urinate but not be able to and clench his or her teeth. The user also feels "emotionally monotone," he said.

The chewing: not the day after, during. But it's very mild compared with coke, which is horrendous.

The not being able to pee thing is normal for me with MDMA and can persist for 36 hours, and it's really uncomfortable. I can overcome it with some brain trickery (the more I try, the less successful I am - but if I concentrate on something else it will happen by itself). Sex drive is nil.

I sleep perfectly from about 3 hours after MDMA - really well, actually - there's no comedown, but then I don't get the full "up", either.

I watch videos of clubbers from the 1990s and I can confidently say that whatever they had must be different to what I've had.
 
MDMA is not so short-acting.
After three hours the psychological effect is long gone, the stimulant effect is still present, mildly, but I can sleep through it. The first couple of hours are probably only light sleep like with alcohol, but I wake feeling good.

Contrast with coke - more than one line - I need at least five hours for it to wear off during which time I might also have a sore nose and sore teeth and chew the inside of my cheeks (for me coke and alcohol are either to be used very sparingly or not at all) - the stimulant effect of MDMA is 'natural feeling', it feels more like being younger. I'm probably a bit older than many on here :)
 
Awesome work vash445, I was just about to post the same report in response to the question above and i have been meaning to post it for a few weeks now regardless. For me it is reports like these and journal articles from forensic chemists actually investigating the modern reality of MDMA and MA manufacture, that are critical in this debate.

The high pressure reductive animation AMINATION (thanks unodelacosa; I am aware it is amination, but clearly I’ve overlooked this embarrassing incorrect autocorrect a couple of times now, haven’t I!) hydrogen gas over platinum oxide catalyst cannot be overlooked as a significant aspect to this conundrum either; I posted (probably years ago now) that this method had been reported in similar Australian government produced reports to have become far more common (as opposed to borohydride and Leuckart etc) at around the same time that these PMK designer precursors started to become commonplace. Throw in a “one pot” approach to the whole shebang and without purification of the MDMA at the end, I still maintain it’s going to result in a bit of a mess with many potential side reactions given the complexity of some of these PMK “designer” precursors.

The other thing of course that this report confirms, which a few of us have tried to raise in vain at times, is that the method referred to is being used to manufacture methamphetamine too, just with a BMK “designer” precursor instead.

Is it it any wonder that so much of the MDMA and MA out there these days frankly is just meh, subpar and a miserable excuse for what it used to be, and indeed both of them became like this at around the same time. The evidence is there. It is not a coincidence. Same method. Similar timeframe. Similar shite product to varying degrees being pumped out to the four corners of the earth.

Publications like the one referred to have contained this sort of information for years, and I’d really like to see the chemists on this site who have been so vocal in this thread and in many others like it, actually engage with the current methods of manufacture in considering this issue and not those from 20 years ago. I honestly believe the answers are in these current methods of manufacture particularly where there is likely to be a lack of proper purification steps along the way.

Can I prove this - no I cannot. But it would be nice to hear some considered opinions on the issue and see where that takes us.
I don’t know how it’s made, but I’ve had amethyst mdma, champagne mdma, cola mdma, and euro A grade that’s like a grey color. All just as good as I had 20 years ago.
 
The chewing: not the day after, during. But it's very mild compared with coke, which is horrendous.

The not being able to pee thing is normal for me with MDMA and can persist for 36 hours, and it's really uncomfortable. I can overcome it with some brain trickery (the more I try, the less successful I am - but if I concentrate on something else it will happen by itself). Sex drive is nil.

I sleep perfectly from about 3 hours after MDMA - really well, actually - there's no comedown, but then I don't get the full "up", either.

I watch videos of clubbers from the 1990s and I can confidently say that whatever they had must be different to what I've had.

I've had modern MDMA that sends me to sleep after about 2 hours. The come up is great, then it just fizzles out and I'm sleeping like a baby.

That's not right.
 
Can you tell me how you know for sure it is

1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane ?

Has it been to UVIC and PS/MS confirmed?

Has getyourdrugstested.com confirmed with FTIR a database on file?

Or is this something you heard from the east coast grapevine?

There's a lot of pink meth precoursers, pusedoeferfine pills, pink p2p etc etc

I don't know much but one of my close friends in the meth synetheis scene said avoid pink meth. It's filled with cancer caused components

Is he correct?

Idk meth or amph isn't my scene

Should you avoid pink or red MDMA just like purple MDMA?

Is purple MDMA really dyed?

With my connections in BULK BULK supplies I'm talking 1-10kg+ they have only encountered and showed me PURPLE dye MDMA. SO YES it can happen

But it just looks ? Off once you see it.

Can you upload a picture of this 1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane?

Is it passed off as is? Or a cathone like BK MDMA?

IVE ONLY ENCOUNTERED SOMETHING WEIRD and extremely off on the east coast looking for BK MDMA after the ban

In the emerald triangle or "silver" triangle

Haven't encountered it.

If you got a picture of the 'pink cocaine ' that isn't tusi

Please upload here or send a PM
Can you tell me how you know for sure it is

1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane ?

Has it been to UVIC and PS/MS confirmed?

Has getyourdrugstested.com confirmed with FTIR a database on file?

Or is this something you heard from the east coast grapevine?

There's a lot of pink meth precoursers, pusedoeferfine pills, pink p2p etc etc

I don't know much but one of my close friends in the meth synetheis scene said avoid pink meth. It's filled with cancer caused components

Is he correct?

Idk meth or amph isn't my scene

Should you avoid pink or red MDMA just like purple MDMA?

Is purple MDMA really dyed?

With my connections in BULK BULK supplies I'm talking 1-10kg+ they have only encountered and showed me PURPLE dye MDMA. SO YES it can happen

But it just looks ? Off once you see it.

Can you upload a picture of this 1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane?

Is it passed off as is? Or a cathone like BK MDMA?

IVE ONLY ENCOUNTERED SOMETHING WEIRD and extremely off on the east coast looking for BK MDMA after the ban

In the emerald triangle or "silver" triangle

Haven't encountered it.

If you got a picture of the 'pink cocaine ' that isn't tusi

Please upload here or send a PM





Can you tell me how you know for sure it is

1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane ?

Has it been to UVIC and PS/MS confirmed?

Has getyourdrugstested.com confirmed with FTIR a database on file?

Or is this something you heard from the east coast grapevine?

There's a lot of pink meth precoursers, pusedoeferfine pills, pink p2p etc etc

I don't know much but one of my close friends in the meth synetheis scene said avoid pink meth. It's filled with cancer caused components

Is he correct?

Idk meth or amph isn't my scene

Should you avoid pink or red MDMA just like purple MDMA?

Is purple MDMA really dyed?

With my connections in BULK BULK supplies I'm talking 1-10kg+ they have only encountered and showed me PURPLE dye MDMA. SO YES it can happen

But it just looks ? Off once you see it.

Can you upload a picture of this 1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane?

Is it passed off as is? Or a cathone like BK MDMA?

IVE ONLY ENCOUNTERED SOMETHING WEIRD and extremely off on the east coast looking for BK MDMA after the ban

In the emerald triangle or "silver" triangle

Haven't encountered it.

If you got a picture of the 'pink cocaine ' that isn't tusi

Please upload here or send a PM


Does that look dyed?
 
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After three hours the psychological effect is long gone,
This is why many people take a booster after about 1.5 - 2 hrs. from the initial dose. This carries the effects forward. Or I'll flip it into a shroom trip or acid trip sometimes, which extends the roll a bit and blends it into the trip coming on. Although the reverse approach sometimes has a better effect – trip first then roll. Gives the psychedelic a chance to bind at 5HT2A, et al., before the disruptive activity of MDMA comes in and floods the cortex with serotonin.
the stimulant effect is still present, mildly, but I can sleep through it.
MDMA by itself is known for this. For many years now, pressed pills have included caffeine which has a potentiating effect both on MDMA and on its neurotoxicity. Either way, it keeps a mofo awake most times. But MDMA has always been this weird paradox of stimulating/jacked yet anxiolytic and calming/sedating effects.
The first couple of hours are probably only light sleep like with alcohol, but I wake feeling good.
So you're deliberately dosing MDMA and going to sleep?
Contrast with coke - more than one line - I need at least five hours for it to wear off during which time I might also have a sore nose and sore teeth and chew the inside of my cheeks (for me coke and alcohol are either to be used very sparingly or not at all) - the stimulant effect of MDMA is 'natural feeling', it feels more like being younger. I'm probably a bit older than many on here :)
Whoa, that's loco en la cabeza. Coke doesn't last for 5 hours for me. More like 45 minutes, tops. Doesn't make me grind my teeth either, but it's a shit feeling without something to take the edge off regardless. Easily the most overrated drug… though it sounds like you're describing speed, TBH. There have been times when, granted I had some tolerance, but I could snort a line of coke and fall asleep on the couch almost immediately afterwards. But of course we're all a little different metabolically and in terms of our personal enzyme profiles.

MDMA is not so short-acting.
Yeah it's not that short-lived typically, but its duration is by no means long, either. The main high only lasts ~4-5 hrs., and then I feel an afterglow for the next day or two depending on the dose I took. The next day, if I want to get anything done, I definitely find that stimulants are useful here, because otherwise my motivation is low. I'd rather have zero obligations for the next day or two, preferably, but we don't always get these niceties…

Three hours is defs a bit short; that's more like the duration of MDE, which I made a batch of back in 2001. From my recollection of it, it's indeed short-acting, like 2.5 - 3 hrs., tops, though not without its own charms and minus the next day afterglow/hangover. I was in my 20s then; I wonder if it would feel the same to me now :unsure:
 
"So you're deliberately dosing MDMA and going to sleep?"

I'm thinking of the first time last year when a new friend agreed to sell me some of their MDMA so I could try it again about 30 years after the first time. I can't tell you how excited I was.

"How did it go?"
"Nice. I did puke a little after 45 minutes, but then I had a couple of hours of nice tingling and deep breathing. Very pleasant. Really bad wind. Didn't feel like doing much. But it was nice all the same. Then after about 2 hours I ate cereal and I went to bed. It still doesn't work."

Her face :cautious:
 
I equate the so called 'MehDMA' with being launched in a rickety old rocket that burns its fuel too fast.

The acceleration is incredible and pins you back in your seat, full of anticipation of the wonders to come.

However, the fuel runs out before you reach escape velocity, and you return to Earth without completing the journey, with a profound sense of disappointment.
 
I don’t know how it’s made, but I’ve had amethyst mdma, champagne mdma, cola mdma, and euro A grade that’s like a grey color. All just as good as I had 20 years ago.
I don't know what the colours are coming from exactly, but what I know is that I have done acetone washes on cola and champagne types and both become light grey crystals.
 
I don't know what the colours are coming from exactly, but what I know is that I have done acetone washes on cola and champagne types and both become light grey crystals.
It comes from impurities that result from various things during production. Some say it's other things, like I've heard before that some chemists pour just a splash of sassafras oil into the final product to indicate that it was made from safrole during a time when there was a lot of imposter MDMA on the blackmarkets, all of them bright white and odorless (which, ironically, is how absolutely pure MDMA is described in the Merck Manual). Idk how much I believe this "oil splash" theory though. Another unlikely myth is that some MDMA is smuggled out of The Netherlands for international shipment dissolved in wine inside of wooden caskets. When it arrives at other countries, the MDMA is extracted out, but some of the wine tannins come along during the process and they're difficult and time-consuming to remove, so they just labelled it "purple MDMA". While inventive, it also seems kinda far-fetched, but who knows? Maybe.

More than likely it's the result of somewhat sloppy, large-scale chemistry; a lack of analytical tools, lack of oversight and zero quality control standards. For example, let's say that the chemist uses a little too much heat while isomerizing safrole into isosafrole. This causes a portion of the 3,4-methylenedioxy ring to break open, introducing a new 3-,4-dihydroxy species into the process. The chemist then forms the ketone from the allylbenzenes present in the solution, and because it's a time-consuming pain in the ass, the chemist doesn't bother to vacuum distill this ketone. It gets washed, and maybe even formed into a crystal with sodium meta-bisulfite as a purifying step, but the 3-,4-dihydroxy chemical just keeps rolling along with the intended 3,4-methylenedioxy portion. Everything is reductively aminated and we end up with some portion of MDMA and some portion of 3-,4-dihydroxymethamphetamine (DHMA), which is tan in color as a crystal, even when pure. This discolors the normally bright white crystalline salt of MDMA and we wind up with "champaign molly" that has a speedy kick to it courtesy of the DHMA. The experience may or may not be "meh" depending on the amount of DHMA present vs intentional MDMA. Or it may be so minuscule it only colors the crystal but doesn't affect quality much. And this is only one possibility.

Another setup may involve the clandestine chemist manufacturing their own methylamine, which also produces a portion of dimethylamine and trimethylamine, which if the chemist doesn't know how to separate it could potentially have a negative net effect on the end product. So they perhaps just use it as is, converting a portion of their PMK (aka: MDP-2-P) into MDDMA and another portion into MDTMA which both have a countering effect on MDMA. If cleaned properly, the other compounds will still be present, but also quite clean, and the end product may still appear bright white but be an overall disappointing experience. So discoloration doesn't necessarily prove anything about the experience or qualitative effects.
 
It comes from impurities that result from various things during production. Some say it's other things, like I've heard before that some chemists pour just a splash of sassafras oil into the final product to indicate that it was made from safrole during a time when there was a lot of imposter MDMA on the blackmarkets, all of them bright white and odorless (which, ironically, is how absolutely pure MDMA is described in the Merck Manual). Idk how much I believe this "oil splash" theory though. Another unlikely myth is that some MDMA is smuggled out of The Netherlands for international shipment dissolved in wine inside of wooden caskets. When it arrives at other countries, the MDMA is extracted out, but some of the wine tannins come along during the process and they're difficult and time-consuming to remove, so they just labelled it "purple MDMA". While inventive, it also seems kinda far-fetched, but who knows? Maybe.

More than likely it's the result of somewhat sloppy, large-scale chemistry; a lack of analytical tools, lack of oversight and zero quality control standards. For example, let's say that the chemist uses a little too much heat while isomerizing safrole into isosafrole. This causes a portion of the 3,4-methylenedioxy ring to break open, introducing a new 3-,4-dihydroxy species into the process. The chemist then forms the ketone from the allylbenzenes present in the solution, and because it's a time-consuming pain in the ass, the chemist doesn't bother to vacuum distill this ketone. It gets washed, and maybe even formed into a crystal with sodium meta-bisulfite as a purifying step, but the 3-,4-dihydroxy chemical just keeps rolling along with the intended 3,4-methylenedioxy portion. Everything is reductively aminated and we end up with some portion of MDMA and some portion of 3-,4-dihydroxymethamphetamine (DHMA), which is tan in color as a crystal, even when pure. This discolors the normally bright white crystalline salt of MDMA and we wind up with "champaign molly" that has a speedy kick to it courtesy of the DHMA. The experience may or may not be "meh" depending on the amount of DHMA present vs intentional MDMA. Or it may be so minuscule it only colors the crystal but doesn't affect quality much. And this is only one possibility.

Another setup may involve the clandestine chemist manufacturing their own methylamine, which also produces a portion of dimethylamine and trimethylamine, which if the chemist doesn't know how to separate it could potentially have a negative net effect on the end product. So they perhaps just use it as is, converting a portion of their PMK (aka: MDP-2-P) into MDDMA and another portion into MDTMA which both have a countering effect on MDMA. If cleaned properly, the other compounds will still be present, but also quite clean, and the end product may still appear bright white but be an overall disappointing experience. So discoloration doesn't necessarily prove anything about the experience or qualitative effects.

Thanks for the info, I thought it was going to be some sort of impurity from less than ideal synth, but it's interesting to hear what it could be.

I also heard that sometimes the cola shade can come out when MDMA is heated to form larger rocks that would be impractical to get through proper crystallisation, and the heat is applied too quickly causing some MDMA to end up burnt.
 
I equate the so called 'MehDMA' with being launched in a rickety old rocket that burns its fuel too fast.
The acceleration is incredible and pins you back in your seat, full of anticipation of the wonders to come.
However, the fuel runs out before you reach escape velocity, and you return to Earth without completing the journey, with a profound sense of disappointment.
Yes! I can relate to that description. I suspect something inhibits/goes wrong with the dopamine signalling. Researchers - where's your curiosity?
 
Didn't feel like doing much. But it was nice all the same. Then after about 2 hours I ate cereal and I went to bed.
No hyperkinesia and appetite returned after 2h. I would bet no mydriasis either.
I would call that Mongy...
 
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Thanks for the info, I thought it was going to be some sort of impurity from less than ideal synth, but it's interesting to hear what it could be.
What do you think I was describing? In both the examples I gave in my last comment, both were certainly "less than ideal" syntheses. The first describes an amateur chemist using too much heat for isomerizing safrole, introducing side products but lacking the analytics to detect and remove them. The second example had the chemist improperly synthesizing methylamine, then proceeding with it, contaminated, and that also introduced downstream side-products. Either example is exactly what you thought it was going to be: shitty chem lab technique carried out by untrained, undereducated operators.

I also heard that sometimes the cola shade can come out when MDMA is heated to form larger rocks that would be impractical to get through proper crystallisation, and the heat is applied too quickly causing some MDMA to end up burnt.
Idk, maybe, maybe not, but it's definitely more "less-than-ideal" chemistry. IME, scorched MDMA.HCl polymerizes and forms a black goop that once hardened is the kiss of death to whatever glassware it's occupying. Heat won't form large rocks from it anyways. The best crystals form slowly under gradually decreasing cold temps from a single solvent after a couple previous recrystallizations under a two-solvent matrix. Word is bond, son.
 
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Yes! I can relate to that description. I suspect something inhibits/goes wrong with the dopamine signalling. Researchers - where's your curiosity?
Curious non-researcher, where's your funding for said research? This shit ain't cheap, ya know? One helpful thing would be if the media and the public stopped shitting on illicit drugs for a minute and considered ending prohibition, but doing it correctly, in phases, and not like Oregon did it… Remove the red tape and let the research commence already, I say.
 
What do you think I was describing? In both the examples I gave in my last comment, both were certainly "less than ideal" syntheses. The first describes an amateur chemist using too much heat for isomerizing safrole, introducing side products but lacking the analytics to detect and remove them. The second example had the chemist improperly synthesizing methylamine, then proceeding with it, contaminated, and that also introduced downstream side-products. Either example is exactly what you thought it was going to be: shitty chem lab technique carried out by untrained, undereducated operators.

I'm sorry mate, maybe my choice of wors was not ideal.
What I meant was that, while I was pretty sure it was, as you put it "less than ideal" chemistry, it was nice to hear specific examples.
 
Really ? Is there a repeatable quality difference between countries of origin ? What are your first-hand or second-hand observations ?
Over the years, it's been apparent that people from different parts of the world have had more or less abundance of good/bad stuff. European/North American/Asian experiences of course often varies, both due to differences in the product, but theoretically DNA could sometimes make a difference too (really don't know if that has any validity regarding MDMA).
 
Curious non-researcher, where's your funding for said research? This shit ain't cheap, ya know? One helpful thing would be if the media and the public stopped shitting on illicit drugs for a minute and considered ending prohibition, but doing it correctly, in phases, and not like Oregon did it… Remove the red tape and let the research commence already, I say.
At least in my neck of the woods (northern Europe), external funding often isn't as mandatory as in the US. In my imagination, a PhD or even a MSc project could potentially answer many still unanswered questions in this thread.
 
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