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ARTICLE: '7-OH, kratom, and the criminalization of pain relief in America'

tarman said:
So I'm just going to make a random post, but the 70H and pseudoindoxyl (or whatever it's called) is absolutely going to make Kratom as a whole illegal.

I resisted trying the extracts for a while, but then the entire headshop wall was covered in them. I tried the OPIA and 15mg (half a pill) was enough to get me itchy, almost nodding, and a real clean high. I couldn't believe it. But, the worst part was that, after 2 days of doing it, the comedown/acute withdrawal was severe. Like, really severe.

I fully support Kratom as an alternative to Methadone and Suboxone, but scientists need to figure out the balance. It won't be long. Now, it could be true that it doesn't lower respiration like 'real' opiates, but damn, I was surprised how strong it was. I also tried the dopium brand.

Good ol' kratom powder, straight from the plant, you can wittle yourself down and taper. But these extracts- it's going to be the end. I mean, Kratom's illegal in Vermont of all places. Just think about that.

Yeah, get it while you can, because it won't be long now. Not long at all.
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You could be right, but I really want to believe you are wrong. I mean, the AKA is actually FOR banning 7-OH because they think it will HELP with the legality of plain leaf. I guess they assume that whoever has the power to ban this stuff will see that harm reduction measures are being taken? I don't know, but I don't really think that those people will care.

You might be wrong though. People have been saying that Kratom would be banned for forever and a day and it's still legal in most states, and as liberal as Vermont SEEMS it has a republican governor.
 
Mycophile said:
I'd be pretty surprised if a state as liberal as California banned Kratom. I really hope they don't, especially cause that might influence NY where I am. I've been careful not to touch 7-OH, just plain leaf powder and regular extracts like OPMS black but that's nowhere near as bad as 7-OH. I'm glad I heard about it hear before it showed up at my headshop or I'd probably have bought it.

Not entirely related, but I'm just wondering, which do you (or anyone else) think has worse WD overall, 7-OH or oxycodone/hydrocodone?
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Is 7oh wd really that bad? I've been taking these about 2-2 1/2 a day for about a month and noticed the old opiate withdrawl I havent felt in forever starting up around lunch time.
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puke said:
Is 7oh wd really that bad?
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See if you can try to taper. . .
And then let us know. It sounds like it is like similar to the opioid effects.

Take Car.

The search engine seems to say it's a very strong Extract. And a well liked commodity and difficult to acquire.

Hope you feel better.
 
Thank you for the article, wonderfully insightful... What I will say is that I'm glad that Kennedy is actually listening, and he knows about this topic from personal experience. I do believe that he'd be open to reasonable input from others and moderation, as with all things, is key...this is truly helping many people, and there does need to be third-party testing as well as some oversight from vendors...a balance on both ends... again thanks I'm bookmarking this...
 
Another thing I’m not sure the non using public is aware of is how many people are secretly taking it and don’t know what to do. The opioid veterans understand being sick, cravings, but a lot of people on 7oh are new. I feel so bad for them. I remember getting cut off from my pain meds in 2009 and it was crushing and let to much worse substances. Our government doesn’t care about the addicts in active use. In their perspective, get clean on our drugs preferably, or go to jail or die. Harm reduction is not something our government is capable of imo. If they make the entire kratom plant illegal, I will have lost all hope for them to ever change.
 
Mycophile said:
I'd be pretty surprised if a state as liberal as California banned Kratom. I really hope they don't, especially cause that might influence NY where I am. I've been careful not to touch 7-OH, just plain leaf powder and regular extracts like OPMS black but that's nowhere near as bad as 7-OH. I'm glad I heard about it hear before it showed up at my headshop or I'd probably have bought it.

Not entirely related, but I'm just wondering, which do you (or anyone else) think has worse WD overall, 7-OH or oxycodone/hydrocodone?
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For me 7-oh was a walk in the park compared to oxy wd. Yeah it still sucks ass and I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy but its far easier and shorter in duration than fent, heroin, or oxy wd imo. However, it is just as addictive but that shouldnt be a reason to ban it. All the fear mongering sensationalized headlines calling it "gas station heroin" are ridiculous. It has probably saved countless lives due to the fact that it doesn't cause respiratory depression like traditional opioids making it a much safer alternative. Instead of banning 7oh it needs to be regulated to ensure quality and accurate dosing.
 
frogdreams said:
For me 7-oh was a walk in the park compared to oxy wd. Yeah it still sucks ass and I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy but its far easier and shorter in duration than fent, heroin, or oxy wd imo. However, it is just as addictive but that shouldnt be a reason to ban it. All the fear mongering sensationalized headlines calling it "gas station heroin" are ridiculous. It has probably saved countless lives due to the fact that it doesn't cause respiratory depression like traditional opioids making it a much safer alternative. Instead of banning 7oh it needs to be regulated to ensure quality and accurate dosing.
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How long did the wds last for you?
 
7oh makes me a little euphoric and it works well with the Cheech and Chong 5mg I drink but not at all good like heroin it also makes me tired and confused. Anybody else notice the confusion part? I find myself forgeting what I was about to do.
 
They just stopped my spot from selling, dude's got 2 empty shelves now. Just developed a healthy habbit aldo.
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I took high dose 7-oh for a day and a half & had a horrible 1 day withdrawal where I sweated horribly & felt horrible.
I am never going to do that stuff again.
The withdrawal & dependence & tolerance comes on way too fast & it gets expensive. If I took it now I would have to take 3-4 doses of 100 mg in 1 day to f keep myself high. That's way too high of a dose.

SigmaDrugCollector
 
SigmaDrugCollector said:
I took high dose 7-oh for a day and a half & had a horrible 1 day withdrawal where I sweated horribly & felt horrible.
I am never going to do that stuff again.
The withdrawal & dependence & tolerance comes on way too fast & it gets expensive. If I took it now I would have to take 3-4 doses of 100 mg in 1 day to f keep myself high. That's way too high of a dose.

SigmaDrugCollector
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WD after 1 day ?
That’s more like a hangover from high dosage.
Do you use opioids ? Because 100mg without tolerance it’s disaster it’s active and potent in very small dosages I’m using it every day for 2-3 months now I take 1-2 days off here and there without any WD’s and haven’t had the need to go over 15mg total in a day I mean I could when the tolerance spikes up but u don’t want to increase tolerance further.
 
I have a medium tolerance to opioids, I can take 60 mg of oxycodone at once & handle it.
I will be whacked out but that's my limit
I usually take between 20-30mg a dose of oxycodone. If I go higher than that I get sick & I took a potent dose of poppy seed tea that had me as high as heroin.
But yes, I had about 200mg stashed of 7-oh & then I bought another pack of 500mg Kama brand I think. I took 300 mg that first day at about mid day maybe 4 o'clock & the next day I took the rest of 4 doses of 100 mg each through out the day. The next day I was in cold sweaty uneasy hell. I mean totally soaking my clothes & bed. I boiled up some kratom tea that I puked up immediately. It took maybe 20 % of the wds away so I boiled up another kratom tea with just loose leaf tea ,(I usually combine kratom powder & loose leaf to make my tea) I was able to drink that down then finally get some relief but it was only 3 hours of relief then I had to dose again & I puked again.
So yes , after heavy use of a day & a half I suffered a hell of a withdrawal. Your 15 mg I wouldn't even feel. I do admit I took it in an abusive manner to get high. I gather you are probably using it sparingly for pain relief. I hope that answers your questions & great to chat with you!

SigmaDrugCollector
 
SigmaDrugCollector said:
I have a medium tolerance to opioids, I can take 60 mg of oxycodone at once & handle it.
I will be whacked out but that's my limit
I usually take between 20-30mg a dose of oxycodone. If I go higher than that I get sick & I took a potent dose of poppy seed tea that had me as high as heroin.
But yes, I had about 200mg stashed of 7-oh & then I bought another pack of 500mg Kama brand I think. I took 300 mg that first day at about mid day maybe 4 o'clock & the next day I took the rest of 4 doses of 100 mg each through out the day. The next day I was in cold sweaty uneasy hell. I mean totally soaking my clothes & bed. I boiled up some kratom tea that I puked up immediately. It took maybe 20 % of the wds away so I boiled up another kratom tea with just loose leaf tea ,(I usually combine kratom powder & loose leaf to make my tea) I was able to drink that down then finally get some relief but it was only 3 hours of relief then I had to dose again & I puked again.
So yes , after heavy use of a day & a half I suffered a hell of a withdrawal. Your 15 mg I wouldn't even feel. I do admit I took it in an abusive manner to get high. I gather you are probably using it sparingly for pain relief. I hope that answers your questions & great to chat with you!

SigmaDrugCollector
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That makes some sense. I don’t use regular opiates, and if I do, it’s a very rare occurrence.

My favorite is also pod tea, but I’m too bored to try to find good pods and prepare them.

I use it every day at a steady dosage, but I don’t chase the dragon, so I’m able to cold turkey here and there without WD. Of course the effect isn’t the same, but I’m not sure about this because I keep the dosage steady, so I can really notice or feel the difference between batches. I mean, I have a tolerance okay, but sometimes with different batches I’ll take 2.5mg and feel it a lot, whereas with another batch I’ll take 2.5mg and it leaves me hanging.

Now I have a low potency batch. I don’t believe it’s my tolerance. That batch would last me 10 days give or take, but because it’s lower potency it’s gonna lower my tolerance, so when the batch is over I’ll take 2-3 days off and I hope the next batch will be stronger.

In the past I had WDs with kratom for around 7-10 days and they were definitely WDs. I had all the symptoms. I can’t take the stuff anymore, it’s so gross for me nowadays, but I did abuse it heavily in the past.

It’s great chatting with you too brother.
 
Is the synthetic Kratom more addictive than this kratom tea y'all make? That's the impression I'm getting from the posts.
 
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