Anyone sell R-MDA will want a premium not sure about MDMA
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2
- Thread starter Le Junk
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The problem with molly now a days is its mostly a cathinone cocktail from China made to resemble/feel like MDMA. They even put a licorice sent in it. That's what molly was in Miami and still now starting in the 2010's. Then it just turned into flakka over time, a whole other cathinone imported also from China.
Lab reports show no cathones unless I specifically look or by 4mmc. You must be sourcing from shaddy people my getyourdrugstested or UVIC has encountered it on my end
Except when 4mmc was specifically bought and looked for
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Hello, @Huba. Welcome! I know you're new here, and this thread is a mile long—parts of it read like Thomas Pynchon giving a lecture on organic chemistry to the Hell's Angels—so I don't blame you for not reading it all. Some of this has been covered, and forgive me for pushing back on some of your comments here. You're onto a lot of the right concepts already though, FWIW.
Also, this is a lengthy response. The TL;DR is: your statements are too broad and seem like they're projecting your take on drug availabilities and purity in Dade County, FL to the rest of the world.. The purity argument should begin and end with drug prohibition, which needs to end, as it spawns and props up the unregulated drug bootleg industry and poses a threat to public health. But rather than treating it like the public health matter it is, and despite the enormous demand for—and consumption of—drugs, we criminalize not just the distribution of a certain set of illicit drugs but also their mere possession and use, both acts labelled as felony-level crimes. Very often the criminal record this causes wrecks lives worse than any drugs do, creating legions of disenfranchised ex-cons forced through the undignified slavery that is prison, while meanwhile prohibition continues lining the pockets of dangerous, foreign criminal organizations, funding the cartels and serving as a scapegoat while society ignores mental health issues and wide-spread anxiety… then wonders why so many people self-medicate, despite it being illegal.
Also, as with myself, It's highly unlikely you have your proverbial finger in every major illicit drug blackmarket pie on the planet. And Miami is not representative of the entire global drug scene, or the U.S. one. None of us really have the big picture, which is difficult to see anyways, given the cloaked nature of clandestine chemistry, drug illegality, and contraband smuggling involved.
The rumor goes that when chemists got their hands on safrole and PMK again—both of which give off distinct sassafras/licorice aromas—in an effort to prove to mid-level dealers and buyers that they had the real deal once more and their product was legit MDMA, they would drip a small splash of the oil into the nearly finished product to give it that distinct smell and look, setting it apart from the analogs being misrepresented as Molly/MDMA. It's an entertaining enough story anyways. The truth is probably something stupid like a bunch of amateur wannabe chemists ("cooks") are being heavy-handed, clumsy, and/or impatient during the synthesis. E.g.: too much heat while refluxing a solution of safrole + a strong base like NaOH will demethylate/cleave the 3,4-methylenedioxy ring open and lead to downstream side products, like e.g.: 3,4-dihydroxymethamphetamine, 3,4-dihydroxyamphetamine (α-methyl-dopamine), and 3,4-dihydroxyphenyl-2-propanone. Among others.
In this paper, Headspace solid-phase microextraction - gas chromatography - mass spectrometry qualitative screening method for active compounds, adulterants and impurities in ecstasy tablets seized in Northern Santa Catarina State, Brazil, researchers lay out a super effective and efficient way of screening seized ecstasy tablets. They note:
I'm not saying I don't believe you; I'm just saying your sample size is probably too limited, the data is subjective and likely skewed, and the evidence so far is entirely anecdotal with conflicting reports. No conclusions can be made yet.
Also, this is a lengthy response. The TL;DR is: your statements are too broad and seem like they're projecting your take on drug availabilities and purity in Dade County, FL to the rest of the world.. The purity argument should begin and end with drug prohibition, which needs to end, as it spawns and props up the unregulated drug bootleg industry and poses a threat to public health. But rather than treating it like the public health matter it is, and despite the enormous demand for—and consumption of—drugs, we criminalize not just the distribution of a certain set of illicit drugs but also their mere possession and use, both acts labelled as felony-level crimes. Very often the criminal record this causes wrecks lives worse than any drugs do, creating legions of disenfranchised ex-cons forced through the undignified slavery that is prison, while meanwhile prohibition continues lining the pockets of dangerous, foreign criminal organizations, funding the cartels and serving as a scapegoat while society ignores mental health issues and wide-spread anxiety… then wonders why so many people self-medicate, despite it being illegal.
Your words imply that all MDMA for the past decade has something wrong with it, some problem. This thread title makes a loaded statement w/the assumption that the global supply of MDMA is somehow fucked on every continent in every market. The global MDMA market has always dealt with bunk pills, fake molly, counterfeit powders, MDMA subs, and poorly synthesized product in some percent, but by no means is that 100% the case, nor is finding proper MDMA a rare occurrence. This is not a universal phenomenon. I get it though and find myself doing the same thing on other topics – it's easy to project based on one's one "group." After all, humans are tribal by nature.
I think you're making a pretty big leap with this based on mostly myths and rumors and the skewed data of L.E. seizures.
Natch. I also just want to remind you not to fall victim to confirmation bias. Hell, I'm not even saying you're wrong. I've seen methylone, ethylone, propylone, butylone, 5-APB and 6-APB, and their n-methyl analogs, &c. You might be right, but it was still a guess. And you might be wrong: it seems far-fetched to say there's no more MDMA being made, especially when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
Also, as with myself, It's highly unlikely you have your proverbial finger in every major illicit drug blackmarket pie on the planet. And Miami is not representative of the entire global drug scene, or the U.S. one. None of us really have the big picture, which is difficult to see anyways, given the cloaked nature of clandestine chemistry, drug illegality, and contraband smuggling involved.
I'm skeptical of this. Having produced MDMA.HCl from safrole myself over a quarter century ago, I can tell you from experience that until the nitrogen group comes along, these sassafras compounds are highly fragrant in a pleasing manner. It's much more likely some aromatic compounds carried over from the fragrant Sassafras albidum or what-have-you than chemists added licorice, though it's funny you would mention that, as I heard a somewhat similar myth regarding the sassafras scent… Circa 2011-2013 there was a period where all these beta-substituted MDMA analogs arrived in many scenes & cities. This was a few years after there was a disruption to the global supply of Cambodian safrole-containing plants. The Cambodian govt. burned these plants en masse during a purge and anti-drug frenzy that came from heavy foreign pressure. This purge was so severe it purportedly put the Cambodian plant on the endangered species list. So once everyone's cache of MDMA ran out, there was a shortage, and the analogs rolled in to fill in the gaps. So they were being sold as "molly" (which, IMO, should only refer to MDMA; ambiguity here just helps unscrupulous dealers hawk counterfeit wares, but I digress). For a while the most prevalent one was methylone, but there were others, as I mentioned. These were all odorless, bright white powders, to the point people supposedly became mistrustful of bright white powders lacking any "root beer" scent.
The rumor goes that when chemists got their hands on safrole and PMK again—both of which give off distinct sassafras/licorice aromas—in an effort to prove to mid-level dealers and buyers that they had the real deal once more and their product was legit MDMA, they would drip a small splash of the oil into the nearly finished product to give it that distinct smell and look, setting it apart from the analogs being misrepresented as Molly/MDMA. It's an entertaining enough story anyways. The truth is probably something stupid like a bunch of amateur wannabe chemists ("cooks") are being heavy-handed, clumsy, and/or impatient during the synthesis. E.g.: too much heat while refluxing a solution of safrole + a strong base like NaOH will demethylate/cleave the 3,4-methylenedioxy ring open and lead to downstream side products, like e.g.: 3,4-dihydroxymethamphetamine, 3,4-dihydroxyamphetamine (α-methyl-dopamine), and 3,4-dihydroxyphenyl-2-propanone. Among others.
In this paper, Headspace solid-phase microextraction - gas chromatography - mass spectrometry qualitative screening method for active compounds, adulterants and impurities in ecstasy tablets seized in Northern Santa Catarina State, Brazil, researchers lay out a super effective and efficient way of screening seized ecstasy tablets. They note:
"Under optimal conditions, 44 samples from different seizures were analyzed. Seventy-five compounds were tentatively identified by the proposed method, including active substances, medicines, caffeine, safrole derivatives, synthesis intermediates and solvent residues. The number of tentatively identified compounds per sample varied from 8 to 24, with a mean of 15. Important findings in ecstasy samples, such as norcinamolaurin, α-methyl-1,3-benzodioxole-5-propanamide, α-methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenylpropionitrile, acetylsalicylic acid, piperonylonitrile, methyl isobutyl ketone, mesitylene, and 4-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]-2,6-dimethylphenol, identified with a frequency higher than 10 %, are not found in the literature so far. The method precision, based on relative standard deviation of peak areas, ranged from 5 % to 15 %, depending on the compound. The method was shown to be simple, relatively fast, precise and a powerful tool for the identification of major and minor components in ecstasy tablets in a single analytical cycle, being useful for screening or quantitative purposes, if authentic standards are available."
I go to Miami from time to time to visit friends, and I've been to the keys. I've also been to WMC and UMF, and I've partied my ass off on Biscayne Blvd., rolling face on legit MDMA acquired in Miami. Granted, the couple of weeks Ultra is going on might be a little different, but I'm surprised to hear you characterize the city as not having any MDMA, especially considering the annual festival draws ~165,000 ravers/concertgoers.
I'm not saying I don't believe you; I'm just saying your sample size is probably too limited, the data is subjective and likely skewed, and the evidence so far is entirely anecdotal with conflicting reports. No conclusions can be made yet.
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unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Oh yeah, I meant to address this, too. You're suggesting that blackmarket MDMA has been replaced by α-PVP? Idk where you're getting this from, but it seems neither very accurate nor marginally plausible. I'm sure some asswipe somewhere has sold α-PVP and called it "molly", but you're making statements like this is some pervasive and widespread practice. Meanwhile, I can't find any instances of LE reporting α-PVP yet just digging through a couple thousand reports from drugsdata.org. Don't believe everything that you hear. There are a lot of motherfuckers out there who do not know wtf they're talking about, no clue what's going on, but they're happy as hell to blarf out some half-assed, poorly conceived guesswork like it's the goddamn gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and Ringo. Don't fall for it, @Huba. Rise above. Focus on science
(but seriously, pls try not to spread so much disinformation.)All I was saying was in and around the 2010's Miami was full of fake molly in different forms.
Bath Salts Back in Florida County as `Molly`
05/15/2013Just months after the sale of dangerous bath salts became illegal in Palm Beach County, local officials say the synthetic drug is making its way back onto the streets and into the hands of young users.
The newest form is falling under the name "Molly," which on the street is believed to be Ecstasy, another synthetic drug that is popular among people between the ages of 13 and 30 and is found at rave dance parties and outdoor concerts.
The twist is that many people taking Molly likely don't know that this new form is being made with the drug that is linked to making bath salts, the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office's lead toxicologist said.
The new form of Molly has authorities on high alert since it was linked to three deaths during Miami's Ultra Music Festival, an electronic dance music event in March. Some even questioned whether the drug would be a problem at SunFest in West Palm Beach, which ended last week, but so far there is no evidence of that.
"The whole thing is dangerous," said Mia Ro, a spokeswoman with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration. "It's not new. It's just they've changed."
Contents vary with drugmaker
The first thing to know about Molly is that no one is sure what is in it, said Jeffrey Bernstein, medical director of the Florida Poison Information Center and a physician in Jackson Memorial Hospital's emergency room in Miami.
Molly, named after "molecule," was known decades ago to users as a capsule containing pure MDMA powder, also known as Ecstasy, a psychoactive drug known for inducing feelings of euphoria followed by side effects of anxiety and paranoia.
As time wore on and laws changed, the makeup of that capsule marketed as Molly morphed.
Some manufacturers still put pure MDMA powder in it, but more often than not, the Molly user is ingesting other drugs that are far from what is expected, local authorities said.
"Even in medical literature sources don't agree on what Molly is. Molly by definition is a drug that somebody is making," Bernstein said. "That's the biggest problem -- you don't know what you're getting."
Local authorities said the drug can contain anything from caffeine to methylone, the drug linked to bath salts. Like the Ultra festival in Miami, Molly is showing up more this year at local festivals.
"The bulk of Mollys submitted to the laboratory is methylone, which is bath salts, not Ecstasy, which the term was originally designated for," said Dustin Yeatman, the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office's head toxicology manager.
Since January the sheriff's lab has seen 41 submissions of Molly containing methylone and seven submissions of Molly containing Ecstasy. Last year, the lab saw 37 cases of Molly containing methylone and 44 containing Ecstasy.
Yeatman said the dramatic increase of Molly containing the bath salts drug could be directly related to bath salts recently becoming illegal in Palm Beach County.
The county commission in October 2012 banned the selling of synthetic marijuana and bath salts.
"This occurred along the same timeline around the scheduling of these drugs," Yeatman said. "As with most illicit drugs, it's buyer beware."
Either way, there have been recent cases involving the alleged sale of Molly.
Greenacres police arrested Christopher Pasahow on Wednesday after undercover officers allegedly bought drugs from the 21-year-old. In one of the buys Pasahow allegedly said, "I have Molly on deck," and the officers later bought the drug at his house.
Authorities arrested a man in March who was allegedly selling hundreds of grams of Molly in Palm Beach County and shipping the product from Canada. Vicente Loyola was arrested after federal agents were notified that he was flying down to Florida for spring break.
Side effects strong, potentially lethal
Possibly the only aspect of Molly that has stayed the same over the years is that it is still a popular drug to use at raves and to ingest while dancing to high-energy music.
Nathan Messer, a project manager for DanceSafe, a California-based nonprofit, used to take Molly. So he knows why the drug is so popular at music festival settings.
"It makes music sound really good. It makes you feel really connected socially to the people around. The music is fast, and it's a stimulant sort of drug. They just have this great interplay," Messer said. "It can make a normal night out at the club that's pretty OK fun into the best night of your life."
Although the drug may make users feel good when dancing, Molly has a definite crash. Messer says it's difficult to get to sleep, and the day after taking the drug, the user tends to chew the inside of gums, feels a need to urinate but not be able to and clench his or her teeth. The user also feels "emotionally monotone," he said.
Another side effect is that body temperatures can rise up to 108 degrees and, as a consequence of the hyperthermia, the user can bleed out, said Cindy Magnole, a registered nurse and the injury-prevention coordinator at Jackson Health System.
"Every opening in your body -- ears, nose, mouth, everywhere that has an entryway -- just starts to bleed through," she said.
Beside the three people who died at this year's Ultra Music Festival, the poison center received eight calls regarding Molly during the multi-day festival.
That left some here worried about SunFest, which draws thousands of young people.
"It's a very similar type of event, just because of the type of venue it is and the fact that it was reported to be found at Ultra," Yeatman, with the sheriff's office, said.
The fact that there is no quality control and the manufacturers are creating the Molly with whatever they want in it makes it similar to bath salts and synthetic marijuana, Bernstein said.
"That's been the problem for the past couple of years -- staying ahead of the designer chemist. We're creating new substances that kind of escaped the law because they haven't been named or they haven't been scheduled and there's no official law against it. People are altering the basic molecule to create a new drug."
[email protected]: @alexseltzer
Copyright 2013 The Palm Beach Newspapers, Inc.All Rights Reserved
Trismus, bruxism and anuria do not occur the day after taking MDMA. If they occur, then they occur while under the influence of the drug.
This is an example of stretching the facts for the purposes of fear-mongering.
Some people indeed feel like this and this gave the rise to the phrase "Tusday Blues". The article does not make any mention that this state is temporary - a sign of bias.
This is not a symptom of MDMA consumption. PMA can raise the body temperature like this, but not MDMA.
This is clearly fear-mongering, ...either totally made-up or attributing the effects of other substances to MDMA.
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He does know the chemistry and self-admittedly was involved in MDMA manufacture so he also has some practical experience that goes even beyond the chemical realm.
His stance is that reports like this are not a result of a change to the drug itself nor its systemic contamination/adulteration. Note, that he does not deny the occasional possibility of such but he does not consider an ubiquitous change of the drug's composition as the cause of most meh-MDMA reports but rather attributes them to occasional contamination, adulteration or misrepresentation and users' tolerance and other user-specific impairments, such as, but not limited to, widespread A.D. use and old age.
You make it sound like "brown sugar" is the normal appearance of MDMA⋅HCl. It is not. That is the appearance of a contaminated/impure MDMA⋅HCl.
The same goes for the licorice smell.
Yellow means contaminated/impure, too.
However, even odorless white powder or completely transparent crystals are not an unequivocal indicator of a pure racemic 3,4-MDMA⋅HCl.
To determine that optically, your eyes are not sufficient and an IR spectrometer or Raman spectrometer is needed ...and other methods, besides the optical ones, exist to make that determination, too.
@Huba
Before posting here you should have read the first and second post of this thread ...and deeply consider what is written there.
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unodelacosa
Bluelighter
That was 15 years ago and I'm not debating that. But that's not what you wrote. You wrote that: "the problem with molly now a days is it's mostly a cathinone cocktail". Idk about you, but I don't consider a decade and a half ago to be quite the same timeframe as nowadays. You gotta stop throwing out that "problem with molly now a days" line to people
But you're right about the shortage back in the early 2010s. This was a result of the Cambodian Safrole oil crackdown. In 2007, Cambodia banned the production and sale of safrole oil to combat its use in drug manufacturing. Then in 2008, a public burning of 1,278 barrels of safrole oil was conducted, which could have produced ~245 million Ecstasy tablets valued at $7.6 billion. (I wonder if anyone got high from the fumes…
). The very next year, in 2009, authorities seized another 5.7 tons of safrole oil, enough for ~44 million Ecstasy tablets. It took a little while for this to finally effect the market, but that's why things were that way back then. Since then other sources have come along as well as newer techniques. Res ipsa loquitur.It's absolutely awful.
I had some 6 months ago and it was probably too strong
Please describe your experience.
Also, do you have some basic data about the drug, e.g: form, appearance, dose ?
If you have some advanced data like its spectrum please share it, too.
Please describe your experience.
Also, do you have some basic data about the drug, e.g: form, appearance, dose ?
If you have some advanced data like its spectrum please share it, too.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
On the flipsies though: mephedrone
notsmokeymcpot42088
Bluelighter
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Methylone/Bk-MDMA was my favorite but im making the thread dumber by posting.
I would imagine the quality is decent on the darkweb -- it was good locally last time I had a plug (according to reagent tests) and effects at sub 100 mg doses. That was 9 years ago though so I guess I am off of the scene.
R v S MDMA is new to me -- feels adderallesque?
I would imagine the quality is decent on the darkweb -- it was good locally last time I had a plug (according to reagent tests) and effects at sub 100 mg doses. That was 9 years ago though so I guess I am off of the scene.
R v S MDMA is new to me -- feels adderallesque?
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
So, there are two enantiomers of MDMA, R and S (they stand for Rectus and Sinister). The R-enantiomer is aka: the l-isomer. The S-enantiomer is aka: the d-isomer. It is analogous to the differences between d-amphetamine (read: "dexamphetamine") and l-amphetamine, which are both found in Adderall at a 3-to-1 ratio.
However, the comparison to Adderall ends there. Neither enantiomer of MDMA feels like Adderall. They feel like MDMA, which is distinct. And anyways, given that MDMA is a methylated amphetamine, a comparison to methamphetamine would be slightly more appropriate though still not much of a comparison.
I agree with you that methylone/BK-MDMA is a fun, worthwhile drug, as long as you know what you're taking. Too often, it's misrepresented as MDMA or "Molly" (I don't care what some ppl say, "Molly" is short for "molecule" as in "Family jewel molecule" which references the Grateful Dead Family Chemists… it is not any vaguely ecstasy-like drug). And methylone is not the same drug as MDMA. They share a few qualities but also have plenty of differences. And no, you're not making the thread dumber (I don't think that's possible! Lol, j/k).
Btw, reagent testing cannot and does not indicate purity or dosage. It also does not 100% positively indicate any particular substance is present. It just tells you if a suspected compound is likely present or not. I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs, but the distinction is significant, and it's important to understand the bit about purity and dosage. Finally, yes: the DNMs do indeed have excellent MDMA from what I hear, though it might depend on which country you're ordering from, ya know…
Really ? Is there a repeatable quality difference between countries of origin ? What are your first-hand or second-hand observations ?
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Many who order from the dark net will opt for domestic shipments / vendors over imports, just to avoid customs and their x-ray scanners. So, one's local area sales of DNM products can very from country to country… For example, in the U.K. it seems like there have been some obstacles for most users trying to find clean, real deal Holyfield MDMA in the past ~decade or so. So for these fine ladies and gentlemen, domestic dark net market MDMA might still be of low-quality.
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