Addiction Addiction specialists

[rentedbythehour]

Addiction is already misunderstood without any additional information

I have to say I disagree with this. Information and knowledge is constantly evolving. If there wasn't additional information being studied, nothing would change.
Addiction is something that is misunderstood but I feel like that's mainly by people who have no experience with it. For instance, my mom hasn't the slightest clue about addiction at all. She was married to one and had 3 children who are addicts but her personal experience and understanding of it is pretty much nil. It's like with anything else in life. Some people are interested in getting to the root cause of it, even though that could be different for every one of us. Some people could care less.

 

[Stassi202]

I have to say I disagree with this. Information and knowledge is constantly evolving. If there wasn't additional information being studied, nothing would change.
Addiction is something that is misunderstood but I feel like that's mainly by people who have no experience with it. For instance, my mom hasn't the slightest clue about addiction at all. She was married to one and had 3 children who are addicts but her personal experience and understanding of it is pretty much nil. It's like with anything else in life. Some people are interested in getting to the root cause of it, even though that could be different for every one of us. Some people could care less.

You don’t have to agree. After 25 years of drug addiction and countless attempts at getting clean, trust me. It’s constantly misunderstood.

 

[jasperkent]

Wow. That's a long time to be fighting. Did you everl have success at any of them? Even if it was a brief period of time?

The first time I was 27 and stayed sober for less than a week. The next 5 times I was more&more serious about recovery-- and required medical detox. I relapsed after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years-- not necessarily in that order.

The last time I went mainly for medical detox & a safe place to heal for a couple of weeks thereafter. At that point I wasn't learning anything new, I just needed the healthy environment. It certainly helped.

I believe treatment centers are always beneficial, even if only to plant a seed of hope. Few addicts stay in recovery the first time around, but many do recover at some point if they make it back.

 

[rentedbythehour]

The first time I was 27 and stayed sober for less than a week. The next 5 times I was more&more serious about recovery-- and required medical detox. I relapsed after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years-- not necessarily in that order.

The last time I went mainly for medical detox & a safe place to heal for a couple of weeks thereafter. At that point I wasn't learning anything new, I just needed the healthy environment. It certainly helped.

I believe treatment centers are always beneficial, even if only to plant a seed of hope. Few addicts stay in recovery the first time around, but many do recover at some point if they make it back.

I've found having structure helps me a lot. I need to have routine and responsibility. I guess I've never felt the need to get help from a treatment center. The worst I ever was, I told my mom I had a problem and asked her if I could move back into her house. I was in my early 20s at the time. She let me and I was able to recover myself. Haven't touched that drug since. Almost 30 years now.

 

[rentedbythehour]

You don’t have to agree. After 25 years of drug addiction and countless attempts at getting clean, trust me. It’s constantly misunderstood.

You're right. I don't have to agree. As long as you understand your own addiction, that's all that matters

 

[jasperkent]

I've found having structure helps me a lot. I need to have routine and responsibility.

^This^ + good nutrition + good sleep are absolutely essential for true recovery. Community helps a lot, too.

I guess I've never felt the need to get help from a treatment center.

Every person is different, every drug is different, and every person's relationship with every drug is different.

When I fell, I fell hard.
Hospitalization or death.

 

[Jnowhere]

Are you thinking about rehab? Sometimes it is good to get a fresh start.
I’ve learned over the years that I am accountable for everything I do think. I can do whatever I want to in life by the choices I make.
If I choose to do something I might regret that is my choice. I prefer to choose things I can benefit from instead of killing myself softly.
It’s your life, choose wisely. And if you don’t, so what it’s your life?

You, sound like an A.I. bot from some corrupt rehab. Desperately seeking patients. Control is an illusion, that often turns into delusion.

No, you can't. We all have limitations.

Grim realities often are masked with nonsense. Straight up honesty with yourself about your situation is far better than mantras chanted by rehab workers.

 

[tryptakid]

Really cool thread

I wasn't sure where to post this so if it needs to be moved, feel free.


I've been reading a few things recently about addiction and the latest things being talked about. One name I see often about treatment is Gabor Máte. I haven't read any of his books but I get the basics of what he's saying. Does anyone have other suggestions of people I should look into? Anyone who has made an impact on your recovery?

I've seen him speak a few times - in your other comment you also mentioned Johann Hari - Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong - he wrote a book called Chasing the Scream which I think is a really worthwhile read about how the war on drugs has created a system that punishes addiction and actually perpetuates the root causes of addiction in the process - poverty, criminal mindset, systems of oppression, hopelessness, impediment to career and education - all of these things are traumatic, sometimes in opaque and chronic ways that are had to recognize without stepping back and looking at someone's whole life.

I remember being in a halfway house with a bunch of guys from the South Boston and Charlestown projects. Their whole family systems were afflicted by addiction and incarceration, as well as living within a social welfare system. I had grown up in the suburbs with an intact family, had a good education, and had gone to college. I'd worked professionally during and after college in the mental health field, and I had 'seen' what a "good life" can look like all along. I knew what stable and supportive family systems felt like, and I was familiar with the benefits of financial success and independence. Most of the guys I was in treatment with had never really seen that. They really only knew life through the perspective of growing up within the game. What was familiar to them was the cycle of addiction and generational poverty/trauma that they'd grown up with. These things were alien to me. That made it easier for me to know how to recover and what to look to grow into. That's why I eventually went to grad school. Most of the guys I was in treatment with are dead. Some died shortly after leaving the halfway house, others died when fentanyl hit. Some remained trapped in the system. I do think one or two got out and stayed clean long term, but it's been a long time now (17 years tomorrow, November 4th).

What helped me was the combination of a therapist experienced in dual diagnosis + 12-step groups. I live in Georgia and I turned to Fairland Recovery Center and they put together a plan for me (CBT, relapse prevention, support for depression). Mate’s theory is good as a perspective, but in practice I needed concrete sessions and follow-up.

If you want to learn about addiction, my recommendation would be to go straight to the source. Find people who have years of direct experience with different substances, going to treatment centers, attending 12 step programs, therapy, medications, getting their life together but then relapsing and going through it all over again in a different way. This is a snapshot of what my struggle with addiction has looked like over the last 25 years.

I've found having structure helps me a lot. I need to have routine and responsibility. I guess I've never felt the need to get help from a treatment center. The worst I ever was, I told my mom I had a problem and asked her if I could move back into her house. I was in my early 20s at the time. She let me and I was able to recover myself. Haven't touched that drug since. Almost 30 years now.

Lots of good insight here. I'll chime in to say that all of this is helpful. I truly feel that there is no one right way to recover. My recovery doesn't involve total abstinence. Psychedelics have been a part of my healing journey, and I've found ways to have a healthier relationship with alcohol. Still, there are ways that I am more vulnerable than others to compulsive use, chronic use, and reliance on a substance to deal with stress, pain, fatigue etc. Still, I am also very self aware of my use and have worked to recognize when use becomes consistent. Dissociatives were a class of drugs that I was using to manage the bystander trauma of working within the opioid epidemic as a clinician. Burnout was real and despair was everywhere - ketamine became something that I would turn to to numb the distress of dealing with so much suffering every day. On top of that, I had to work within the public health system with an enormous student loan burden that I needed to work towards forgiveness for (200k+ for my graduate education). I had to stay full time in the non-profit/public health sector to qualify for PSLF after 10 years. I was also paying 700+/month in payments which cut into what I could afford to pay for rent, to save etc. All of that took a toll. It's only now that I've finally gotten free from the loan burden and have been able to repair my finances and can finally start to save towards home ownership. It's a lot of lost years.

My friend has noted that addiction can be like hitting 'pause' on the tape of life - where your life pauses and every one around you continues on. When you hit play again you realize you're out of step with the people around you, they've moved onto goals and successes and you're still stuck in an earlier stage, if not completely left behind. That loss of social connection is incredibly harmful. Johanns Hari mentions in chasing the scream that the 'opposite of addiction isn't abstinence - it's human connection'. One of the greatest things that addiction takes from us is our connection with healthy people. We connect with other addicts, and we connect with our drugs of choice. The people that are best for us tend to pull away to avoid being sucked into our chaos. In the process, we end up become more vulnerable and less capable of finding stability. It's why peer support through 12-step or SMART or even group/individual therapy can be so helpful. That authentic human connection is incredibly important in our journey to recovery.

 

[tryptakid]

You, sound like an A.I. bot from some corrupt rehab. Desperately seeking patients. Control is an illusion, that often turns into delusion.

No, you can't. We all have limitations.

Grim realities often are masked with nonsense. Straight up honesty with yourself about your situation is far better than mantras chanted by rehab workers.

Are you thinking about rehab? Sometimes it is good to get a fresh start.
I’ve learned over the years that I am accountable for everything I do think. I can do whatever I want to in life by the choices I make.
If I choose to do something I might regret that is my choice. I prefer to choose things I can benefit from instead of killing myself softly.
It’s your life, choose wisely. And if you don’t, so what it’s your life?

I think what @M!$TER-ED is saying is that we can make decisions that push us towards serenity and stability, and we can make choices that move towards chaos, suffering, and addiction. If we tend to make choices that head towards serenity, then we are on the path of recovery, whereas if we make choices that tend towards chaos, suffering, dishonesty, isolation, and instability, then we are on the path of addiction. It's why they say in 12-step that you should just focus on doing the next right thing. Sometimes that simple wisdom is a useful tool regardless of whether or not you're in the fellowship.

I left AA 15 years ago for personal reasons - I have no interest in returning, but I know for a fact that 12-step saved my life and I still use the steps as a set of guiding principles for navigating life. I take accountability for my actions, admit when I'm wrong and work to make amends if I wrong another. I spread the message of recovery through my work and through my actions. I also don't believe that 12-step is the only way to find recovery. I believe that it is harmful to people when only one option is presented. There is no one right way to live and there is no one right way to recover.

 

[Jnowhere]

I think what @M!$TER-ED is saying is that we can make decisions that push us towards serenity and stability, and we can make choices that move towards chaos, suffering, and addiction. If we tend to make choices that head towards serenity, then we are on the path of recovery, whereas if we make choices that tend towards chaos, suffering, dishonesty, isolation, and instability, then we are on the path of addiction. It's why they say in 12-step that you should just focus on doing the next right thing. Sometimes that simple wisdom is a useful tool regardless of whether or not you're in the fellowship.

I left AA 15 years ago for personal reasons - I have no interest in returning, but I know for a fact that 12-step saved my life and I still use the steps as a set of guiding principles for navigating life. I take accountability for my actions, admit when I'm wrong and work to make amends if I wrong another. I spread the message of recovery through my work and through my actions. I also don't believe that 12-step is the only way to find recovery. I believe that it is harmful to people when only one option is presented. There is no one right way to live and there is no one right way to recover.

This is why recovery rates at ( besides corruption which is rampant) rehabs hover( depending on the source) at just under 10%.

Really no right way. Thank you. Now let's get to the part about admitting when you are wrong and making amends.

No, right way to live. Really, but you have to think exactly as those in control.

You say AA saved your life. You live or die when ALMIGHTY GOD decides or actually has decided.

Did you trade booze for drugs? I traded booze for legally obtained scripts because I was nearly dead from alcohol.
How many weeks were you stuck in a double room with no insurance.

It was kinda funny; they had to put me in a big room by myself because all the fluid that would break through the skin on my ankle and cause the whole room's floor covered in fluids.lol

Those stomach drainings. 7 1/2 liters one time. 2 gallons 1 1/2 liters short of the record. That one still angers me. If my ankle hadn't leaked all that fluid or that drainage lesson I believe I was used for. A couple of those female residents were hot. All those people staring taking notes while I have a giant needle in my stomach and am half dead. I became a case study?lol

Ah, I get that you probably dabble or use.
That's the type of language from a liberal who may not drink but dabbles or more.
Honestly, am I right. Yes, Weed is a drug and so are psychedelics.

Please tell me you are not a part of all this therapy fraud and crap designed to keep addicts addicted. From the drug lords to the cops; The money is too much, and misery and suffering is a potentially profitable nightmare fueled by all sides.

AA: Wow did I wanna drink after I went to a meeting.( seriously) Besides it is like a weird cult. Not talking about believing in God. I mean all the co dependant sponsor crap. I had to use most of all the restraint I had to keep from bursting out laughing. Oh no, you had a sip of champagne at a wedding.

Seriously this upper middle class looking lady was balling. I had to keep from falling over laughing. We were both almost in tears.

There is one way. After medically ok( no cold turkey on long term benzo use, ect) quit.
You either do it or you don't. All those tools and other stuff means nothing to an addict when something becomes to tempting and give in.

I am with Dr. Drew M.D.; you either get clean or you don't. I bet you use, and yet that ain't recovery; maybe with all these nonsense methods. There just is more money in addiction. This nonsense and a more sensitive and cry baby culture, has not helped. It has made things worse.

You are either clean or not( legit meds excluded)(people who drink but don't have a problem are also excluded)

When I wanted to I could quit. And I did, till I didn't. All these touchy feely bs is not helping.

Neither is thinking it is ok to recreationally use weed and alcohol if they weren't an issue. You either stay sober or you don't. Or you may have a new addiction. Ah, yes recovery is now big business. But getting people to normalize things to an addictive person.
That I really take issue with. Yes I am seeing counterproductive measures. Guess what, it is intentional. €$£

All those mantras are nonsense when confronted with reality. Not in the confines of a touchy feely group, sharing their misery: Means nothing.

Left AA for personal reasons. As long as you don't drink, good. Creepy, weird cult.

All I know is that you have stated about, no right way. You act like morality is relative and yet you say you admit when you are wrong. Make Amends please. Or are those empty words?

 

[tryptakid]

This is why recovery rates at ( besides corruption which is rampant) rehabs hover( depending on the source) at just under 10%.

Which is frankly equal to the natural rate of spontaneous improvement without treatment. 10% of people who are addicted and get no treatment will eventually just kind of stop being addicted for whatever reason - either they decide to sober up or stop using for one reason or another. Recovery rates aren't really increased by 12-step attendence.

I will say that self-help (of any kind, 12-step/smart/groups/religion etc.) may not necessarily be all that significant in whether or not someone stops using, but they are really helpful in improving the general quality of life for people who attend. When you stop using drugs after an addiction, you stop using a primary method of coping with stress. If drugs or alcohol serve a purpose like that (drinking to numb pain, using drugs to deal with anxiety, using substances to motivate or get through work burden) you have less ways of coping with distress. Substance use may not be a healthy coping strategy, but it's certainly a form of coping strategy. Without it, people often struggle to navigate dealing with life stressors and this leads to things like irritability, depression, anxiety, isolation, self-esteem issues, burn out, resentment, spitefulness, anger etc. It also leads to people replacing one addiction for another (maybe compulsive sex or exercise, technology use etc.).

Really no right way. Thank you. Now let's get to the part about admitting when you are wrong and making amends.

No, right way to live. Really, but you have to think exactly as those in control.

You say AA saved your life. You live or die when ALMIGHTY GOD decides or actually has decided.

You have your beliefs, I have mine. I have a connection with my higher power and that's what's important to me. I'm glad you have a connection with your higher power, but how you view that connection is irrelevant to me and how I live my life. I don't criticize how you choose to believe, so please give me and others the same respect if you don't mind?

Did you trade booze for drugs? I traded booze for legally obtained scripts because I was nearly dead from alcohol.
How many weeks were you stuck in a double room with no insurance.

I stole cheese and returned it without a receipt for drugs. I've done every sneaky thing you can imagine to fuel my habit.

It was kinda funny; they had to put me in a big room by myself because all the fluid that would break through the skin on my ankle and cause the whole room's floor covered in fluids.lol

That sounds awful - I'm glad you made it through okay

Those stomach drainings. 7 1/2 liters one time. 2 gallons 1 1/2 liters short of the record. That one still angers me. If my ankle hadn't leaked all that fluid or that drainage lesson I believe I was used for. A couple of those female residents were hot. All those people staring taking notes while I have a giant needle in my stomach and am half dead. I became a case study?lol

Ah, I get that you probably dabble or use.
That's the type of language from a liberal who may not drink but dabbles or more.

What do my politics have to do with any of this. Of course I still use substances, I made that clear in my comment - I don't believe that one needs to be abstinent from substances to be in recovery. I am abstinent from opioids for 17 years as of midnight tonight (November 4th). I'm really proud of that. I have had struggles at times with other things (nicotine, ketamine, kratom) but I have reduced or stopped entirely using all of those things over the past few years. I quit vaping in January and now just use nicotine lozenges, I stopped using dissociatives, and I'm tapering off of kratom.

Honestly, am I right. Yes, Weed is a drug and so are psychedelics.

Yes they are.

Please tell me you are not a part of all this therapy fraud and crap designed to keep addicts addicted. From the drug lords to the cops; The money is too much, and misery and suffering is a potentially profitable nightmare fueled by all sides.

I know what you're talking about and no I'm not. I try to help people find whatever path to recovery works for them. I work with my patients to figure out what their goal is and how to support them in getting to that goal. For some, that means stopping entirely and for others it means reducing or moderating use. For many people they find just being accountable to others about their use is helpful in reducing the problems related to use.

AA: Wow did I wanna drink after I went to a meeting.( seriously) Besides it is like a weird cult. Not talking about believing in God. I mean all the co dependant sponsor crap. I had to use most of all the restraint I had to keep from bursting out laughing. Oh no, you had a sip of champagne at a wedding.

Seriously this upper middle class looking lady was balling. I had to keep from falling over laughing. We were both almost in tears.

There is one way. After medically ok( no cold turkey on long term benzo use, ect) quit.
You either do it or you don't. All those tools and other stuff means nothing to an addict when something becomes to tempting and give in.

I am with Dr. Drew M.D.; you either get clean or you don't. I bet you use, and yet that ain't recovery; maybe with all these nonsense methods. There just is more money in addiction. This nonsense and a more sensitive and cry baby culture, has not helped. It has made things worse.

You are either clean or not( legit meds excluded)(people who drink but don't have a problem are also excluded)

Certainly - but being clean isn't the same as being in recovery. Recovery is a perspective - a mindset - an approach to living in acceptance and working on change.

When I wanted to I could quit. And I did, till I didn't. All these touchy feely bs is not helping.

Human connection and emotional processing can be really helpful for people - maybe you're not able to benefit from that stuff but many people can and do find it helpful. I find it helpful.

Neither is thinking it is ok to recreationally use weed and alcohol if they weren't an issue. You either stay sober or you don't. Or you may have a new addiction. Ah, yes recovery is now big business. But getting people to normalize things to an addictive person.
That I really take issue with. Yes I am seeing counterproductive measures. Guess what, it is intentional. €$£

All those mantras are nonsense when confronted with reality. Not in the confines of a touchy feely group, sharing their misery: Means nothing.

Left AA for personal reasons. As long as you don't drink, good. Creepy, weird cult.

All I know is that you have stated about, no right way. You act like morality is relative and yet you say you admit when you are wrong. Make Amends please. Or are those empty words?

I respect your right to think the things you do, even if I don't agree with some of what you're saying. Either way - I'm really glad that you're in a better place than it sounds like you were. That sounds shitty and I'm glad you're better @Jnowhere - you're a good human.

 

[Jnowhere]

How dare you slander my awful name by calling me a good human.lol

 

[rentedbythehour]

I am abstinent from opioids for 17 years as of midnight tonight (November 4th).

Congrats! That's a pretty major accomplishment. You should be proud!

 

[emkee_reinvented]

You don’t have to agree. After 25 years of drug addiction and countless attempts at getting clean, trust me. It’s constantly misunderstood.

Maybe a side spin of my trilogy , the wise lady i worked for as assistance.
Medically prescribed, so in her later year s. She had survived the war.
Again don t ask me how, i never been in one or was hunted as Jew s were att.
The fear someone talk s or German s find out, live on stake. They were Jewish.

She survived the war, went underground during. Had false ID and joined the resistance.Bombing and bullet s were not movie stuff in her young adulthood in WW2.

Her husband was well known and burned the exploitation of harbour worker,
the so called harbour strike. To the ground.
https://anderetijden.nl/aflevering/164/De-haven-plat

This is better live footage the link has a video/ black & white. She mentioned
"The moment my husband put his hand s down, the whole harbour put it s hand s down"
Not really a side spin, more a real life story i passed on. No clue what else to do with these detailed experience report s that i was told. I have never witnessed this kinda struggle. I grew up in a relative LaLa-land.
['ben geen bikkel !'/ not hard boiled !]

Unlike maybe the news would say, and presenting some high up Socialistic figure upfront. By the Trade-Union as person to do the negotiations.

So when she was medically indicated support. Her husband died after a long case of Alzheimer old age. Kid s grew up. Getting older. In that time she said Benzodiazepine went OTC. To prescription by the old school dr s. Who would prescribe way easier. Dextromoramide was when you would mention you wanna quite Heroin. Yeah back then they might understand. Palfium later seemed not so well checked and tested, casualty s arose.

I suppose providing inject able Morphine would have been possible to.

But the current medical institute that had replaced the former imo more humanistic.
And prescription s [or trip to a neighbouring country] were optional. Then dr. s got tight ass when it concerned possibly 'addictive drug s'/ The name or mis- of the thread.

When her old dr. retired, old age. Ended her getting Benzo s. At that time i got with her the first time, she was as nervous as i had seen anyone. Took a few times and she must have decided i sounded ok. She had lost eye sight in one eye.

So had to use other senses to, she got more relaxed but that base line tension was always there. Kinda Logical right. What she been trough, along physical disability s and being reliant o others. She had a great fam.

Missed a good dr. she desperately needed a Benzo in my narrow medical opinion.
The fact that i seemed to know her better then the dr. she had for several year s.
In a few week s working with her, she always helped had good Coffee s and many times something sweet .

Remember we danced slow as well,

She told me a savig a not used: 30 2 mg Flunitrazepam s, for when her other eye would fail. They were initially intended for a earlier bail out with her husband but she couldn t do it. So ending live was at hand. I saw them with my own eye, they were white instead of blue.

At the same time she was slightly irritated by the dr. who would only prescribe her 30 10 mg Oxazepam every once in a while. They had to be rationed. But her dr. didn t even know she had untouched Rohypnol laying for 10 year or more ?

Dr s are the bottle neck spreading misinformation [literally as the don t keep the profession privacy anymore or the Hypocrites Ode is taken serious. Again in my highly not academical opinion.