Most Euphoric Stimulant?

[BadBoy377]

@4DQSAR @BadBoy377 Did you get around to trying L-MethCathinone? If so how did it differ from racemic?

Naw, no idea how I'd do that. It was just methcathinone. I think I read somewhere that dissolving the final product in methanol caused racemization but I never actually tried it.

It's a weird drug. Sometime it seemed like it was doing nothing other times it would totally fuck you in an overstimulated but slightly dissociated way.

Khat is a far more civilised thing. And that's saying something.

 

[4DQSAR]

Naw, no idea how I'd do that. It was just methcathinone. I think I read somewhere that dissolving the final product in methanol caused racemization but I never actually tried it.

It's a weird drug. Sometime it seemed like it was doing nothing other times it would totally fuck you in an overstimulated but slightly dissociated way.

Khat is a far more civilised thing. And that's saying something.

Well cathinone as found in Khat is (S)-2-Amino-1-phenylpropan-1-one so certainly one enantiomer.

I'm pretty sure that is what I sampled but not in the herbal form. It would hardly be unique for the natural compound to be better than the pure material. I think opium is better than morphine and although it was quite weak, mate (coca tea) was at least OK while I loathe cocaine.

 

[cleft]

I like coca tea. Oral cocaine lasts a bit longer, but still feels too short. I suppose it's a plus, since it allows casuals to dip their toes, and be cool. I'm surprised that cocaine is still so popular. 15 years ago various new contender compounds seemed like they could dethrone cocaine, but most of them didn't survive being banned. I tried 4-CMC, and it was okay. It's not very potent, and I was hesitant to eat 1/3 g at a time. I was also offered to vape alpha-PHiP once, and it was very short acting followed by 10 hours of empty stimulation.

 

[4DQSAR]

I like coca tea. Oral cocaine lasts a bit longer, but still feels too short. I suppose it's a plus, since it allows casuals to dip their toes, and be cool. I'm surprised that cocaine is still so popular. 15 years ago various new contender compounds seemed like they could dethrone cocaine, but most of them didn't survive being banned. I tried 4-CMC, and it was okay. It's not very potent, and I was hesitant to eat 1/3 g at a time. I was also offered to vape alpha-PHiP once, and it was very short acting followed by 10 hours of empty stimulation.

I don't know if data is avaiable for 4-CMC but the 4-halo amphetamines were known for their neurotoxicity. Lhe least toxic being the para fluoro.

 

[cleft]

I don't know if data is avaiable for 4-CMC but the 4-halo amphetamines were known for their neurotoxicity. Lhe least toxic being the para fluoro.

I don't understand neurotoxicity studies. It was sold as 4-MMC, which is supposed to be non-neurotoxic, yet it causes memory impairment, which most users see as neurotoxicity.

 

[4DQSAR]

I don't understand neurotoxicity studies. It was sold as 4-MMC, which is supposed to be non-neurotoxic, yet it causes memory impairment, which most users see as neurotoxicity.

Well, I suppose that no study has shown 4-CMC to be neurotoxic, but given that so many closely related compounds are, I would start from the assumtion that it IS neurotoxic until shown otherwise. Unless I've missed a paper, which is entirely possible.

 

[cleft]

Well, I suppose that no study has shown 4-CMC to be neurotoxic, but given that so many closely related compounds are, I would start from the assumtion that it IS neurotoxic until shown otherwise. Unless I've missed a paper, which is entirely possible.

What does it mean if something is neurotoxic in terms of physical and cognitive effects?

 

[4DQSAR]

What does it mean if something is neurotoxic in terms of physical and cognitive effects?

It very much depends on the ligand. MPP+ kills brain cells in the substantia nigra rapidly producing Parkinson's-like symptoms. That is an extreme example but I believe that somewhere online is the BBC programme 'The Case of the Frozen Addicts' in which young healthy people would go to bed feeling fine and wake up with severe symptoms.

But the nervous system is large and complex so it's often difficult to specify what symptoms will present. Ask any doctor and they will explain that almost no patient ever presents with symptoms that exactly match a specific cause.

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The above papers are quite detailed and that last one includes para chloro methcathinone. A quick search using Google Scholar reveals that a lot of papers warn of the potential damage of compound such compounds. I just sort of book-ended the earliest to the latest.

I'm going to guess that 4-CMC is being produced in China. To them, as long as it's legal and as long as someone is willing to pay, they will produce it regardless of what it is. Profit is the sole motive.

Do I need to remind people that some nations instituted legal control of W-18? That large seizures were made? Now that's the most famous example, but by no means is it the only example. But I'm 100% certain that the Chinese manufacturers got paid. Since then there have been others. One big one this year in fact. I suggest it highlights the fact that vendors don't understand much medicinal chemistry.

I do keep repeating this but for some years I had the thankless task of interpreting the instrumental data on thousands of samples and few were pure, some contained impurities almost certain to produce serious illness but likely only years or even decades after consumption. We worked on the simple premis that it's much harder to gain trust than to lose it. But in the end the law changed and we quit. But more than once when a compound was misrepresented to us or impure and we PROVED it was misrepresented/impure, the Chinese vendor didn't give up - they offered us the misrepresented or impure products at a lower price.

We said no - but I would be surprised if they didn't find a buyer whose sole test was to have a small cohort who in exchange for free samples would 'test' the products.

 

[Smyth2]

I had time to look at those articles you pointed to. In the last article he seems to offer than 4-fluoroamphetamine is neurotoxic but imo it works well on a short-term basis and is free of side-effects.

 

[4DQSAR]

I had time to look at those articles you pointed to. In the last article he seems to offer than 4-fluoroamphetamine is neurotoxic but imo it works well on a short-term basis and is free of side-effects.

Well, as I said, I saw hundreds if not thousands of compounds that were unlikely to demonstrate acute toxicity.

But of the halides, the fluoro was by far the least toxic.

I don't know how similer para fluoro amphetamine and plain amphetamine are. AFAIK there is no legal control of the importation, possession or distribution of 1-(4-fluorophenyl)propan-2-one. So if the two are very similar, I imagine buyers would not be hard to find. I just do not wish to associate with the sort of people who would be buyers. I've politely declined to be involved in that arena.

 

[Psychlone Jack]

For me it was always meth. Had to be GOOD meth, very important qualifier there, but a nice fat shot of that what they called "one pot anhydrous" back in the day... that rush was absolute god mode plus an orgasm, every time.

 

[TheLightBringer]

I do keep repeating this but for some years I had the thankless task of interpreting the instrumental data on thousands of samples and few were pure, some contained impurities almost certain to produce serious illness but likely only years or even decades after consumption.

What were some of these impurities? Do you mean after decades of continuous use or as in after decades of one exposure like say a potent carcinogen with extremly long half life/cumulative in tissue or something scary like asbestos?

 

[paranoid android]

The only stims ive had are coke and dexedrine. Out of the 2 coke definitely has that rush thats just to fucked. But i always injected my coke. Dexedrine is pretty euphoric to imo its good for getting shit done unlike coke

 

[Ex-Cracker]

Cocaine was top stim until it went rough times, had some decent amphetamine in the past, turbo paste, brown speed, super speed, and yellow muryh (as in the some similarities to muryh in the bible, don't why other than the colour was a light shade of yellow, but the effect was a very smooth fast and high rush that lasted, very clean gear to say the least and purity was par excellent! And also the aroma of the compound was that similar)
The original xtc tablets late 89' early 90's where untoldly rushy and long lasting, compared to some of the pills nowadays, last E I had was a blue Darth Vader at an old drinking establishment which is sadly closed now, got for £5 and it did tinker a bit but still didn't seem the same as the late eighties early 1990's doves, snowballs, brown biscuits, Cali's, super mans, Denace the Menace, white bullets and flatliners were great aswell!

 

[Loquacious]

That one was also in the back of my mind, sounded great like 5-Me-Ethylone.
But was alway s 'not in stock' Frustating when you wanna taste em all !

So it was good, akin to ? 4-MEC was lacking, but i combo d it with 4-FA once.
And was surprised by a mini roll, the duration was short lucky as it got me by surprise.
floored 45 minute s, was not what i expected. Did that once, not something i d repeat.
Glad it lasted short, didn t anticipate it but kept my cool. Didn t have time to roll. \

I expected a mood lift and stimulation. Not Serotinergic retardation.

It was overwhelming like flunitrazol but in a serotonergic way. Like I Saïd, it was better than benzos for faling asleep after 20 hours.

Literally never did it at parties because it was sooo great at killing pyro dopamine lever adventures, or at least made the psychosis feel funny enough to be in public. but it was more like being high on weed in public, comfy.

Talking about stims and stupid combo’s, 15 flunitrazllam 0.25 in a bottel of wine, ozium, tons of weed, and bacon in the grill.
Mdphp, hash(yes emmer that overpriced shit).
Rolletje Mdphp thought the hasj.
Take 2 hits and spend the rest of the night sloppily paranoia.

Still have some Mdphp hcl, a-bpvp(debromination or is it super complex?) I barely have a gram so not too worries

I have Some horrible nep, need to try it on g tho.

 

[Ex-Cracker]

Loved m-cat aswell as remember when it was legal in head shops in my town, great value about £10 a gram, then when the government banned such compound it was still everywhere but upped to £20 gram and then about the last year until it went dry in my area people were chucking it out for £30-£40 I found it great entertaining effects for the price, but nowadays no one I know does it, everybody is mainly of cocaine, crack, and the brown opioid stuff. Few chuck xtc Molly is pretty common and speed LSD nowadays is bit of a niche though

 

[cleft]

I found meth to be quite euphoric, but I hated not being able to sleep for 1 or 2 nights. I know I can sleep with a help of a benzo, but I don't wanna open that box.

It very much depends on the ligand. MPP+ kills brain cells in the substantia nigra rapidly producing Parkinson's-like symptoms. That is an extreme example but I believe that somewhere online is the BBC programme 'The Case of the Frozen Addicts' in which young healthy people would go to bed feeling fine and wake up with severe symptoms.

It's unproven that ligands or MPP+ are the underlying mechanism. It's a guess.

The first paper uses Nissl and silver methods. I'm unfamiliar with them. To prepare cells for microscopy, they're dehydrated, which causes shrinkage already, then various staining solutions are added which often produce artifacts.

 

[Loquacious]

Will 150mg czech meth hotrailed/ vaped in a meffbong keep me up for 2 days before signs of a comedown? Still racemic 3-fma has only been able to beat amp. Wonder if 3-fam is meff light.

Btw 3-fpm was crack for methsmokers tbh

 

[cleft]

Loved m-cat aswell as remember when it was legal in head shops in my town, great value about £10 a gram, then when the government banned such compound it was still everywhere but upped to £20 gram and then about the last year until it went dry in my area people were chucking it out for £30-£40 I found it great entertaining effects for the price, but nowadays no one I know does it, everybody is mainly of cocaine, crack, and the brown opioid stuff. Few chuck xtc Molly is pretty common and speed LSD nowadays is bit of a niche though

Have you tested recent m-cat in the UK? It's often 3-MMC or 4-CMC. I see reddit posts that "mephi" is popular in Berlin clubs. It seems like most people in richer areas are afraid of RCs, and will pay 3x for cocaine.

 

[Ex-Cracker]

Have you tested recent m-cat in the UK? It's often 3-MMC or 4-CMC. I see reddit posts that "mephi" is popular in Berlin clubs. It seems like most people in richer areas are afraid of RCs, and will pay 3x for cocaine.

Yes, I heard m-cat is very popular in Germany and some other central and some east European countries especially the club scene, being RC it's seen as industrial compared to users thoughts that cocaine is more organic or natural being plant extract, and some people will pay loads more for cocaine as it's seen as the rich, rock and rollers, celebrities drug and people want to associate with that rich excess and experience. Ibiza as far as I have heard is all MDMA, xtc tablets, LSD speed, opioids and cocaine, no doubt if someone got a eight ball bag of m-cat out at a party there they would get thrown out for being a tramp or degenerate more than the undesirable scag head type of user. If I could get the original stuff nowadays I'll if probably calmed down my crack and sniff use , especially being less than half the price per gram..