Kratom 7OH - Oxycodone and 7OH cross tolerance help

[Kryphex Vexor]

Hello everyone,

So I’ve been using oxycodone and kratom for about 8 years. My routine for most of that time was daily kratom leaf (2–4 times per day, around 20–30 GPD total) with weekly oxycodone use — usually 2–3 times per week. On those days, I’d grab some blues (100% real ones), typically 6 at a time. I’d take 3 (about 90mg) at once, then another 3 a few hours later. Even with daily kratom, I always felt the oxy just fine.


Back in April, I found out about 7OH and quickly began using daily and in that time I took a break from oxy (about 2-3 months). This gradually escalated, and now I’m at 200+mg of 7OH per day with no kratom leaf and no oxy use. About a month and a half ago I tried going back to oxy; I took 90mg about 5–6 hours after my 7OH dose and felt nothing. Tried another 90mg an hour later — still nothing. So it’s clear the 7OH has wreaked havoc on my tolerance.

At this point, I don’t feel the 7OH like I used to either so my plan is to stop the 7OH, go back to raw kratom leaf (maybe with some OPMS if needed), and take a tolerance break before trying oxy again.

My questions are:

1. How long of a break on just plain kratom leaf would I need before oxy starts working again? I’m thinking at the very least a week, and to start low at 30mg just to test the waters for safety sake.
2. What should I expect in terms of withdrawals when switching back to raw leaf after 5–6 months of heavy daily 7OH use?

Any advice from people who’ve been in a similar situation would be really appreciated. Thanks a lot!

Ps
I’m new to Bluelight and this is my first post so forgive me if I’m not posting in the correct place.

Edit: Unfortunately I’m not getting any real answers here to either questions so I guess I’ll have to find an answer myself. I’m just gonna wing it, take a week or two off the 7, use nothing but plain leaf, and try oxycodone again. I’m gonna probably start at 30mg instead of my usual 90mg as I don’t want to overdose accidentally. I will report back at some point but if anyone has a real answer to this please let me know. Someone who’s actually had experience doing what I’m talking about, not conjecture like I’m getting from moderators.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Opioid tolerance is a lot like an elastic band. You stretch it far enough and it will interfere with the the function of the elastic.

Opioid tolerance is not something that I've ever seen to be "resettable". Generally, once people cross over into the "chronic, heavy" usage patterns like yourself, it becomes pretty much impossible to ever have the elastic snap back to where it was before. This is why I preach intense discipline regarding chronic Opioid usage. Every decision to take an extra dose can ripple out in ways that are hard to discern in the moment.

I was a Heroin user for over a decade. I've used Methadone for years also. I've had periods of complete abstinence from Opioids. I've gone for ~1.5 years without Opioids. When I eventually relapsed, it took me about 8 days to reach the levels of usage I had been at during the height of my usage. It only took so long as I was trying so desperately to keep it under control. For most people, it's 3-4 days before they're back in a serious habit. I've seen people go months, even years only to return to their original patterns of usage as if they had never stopped.

Opioids eventually lose most of their luster. Your trying to recapture the feeling of relatively low doses of Oxycodone is a pretty classic tale. Most addicts who are in your position settle into a notion that just feeling effects like sedation, itching etc. is a "good" experience even if it is devoid of the euphoria and warmth that Opioids once brought.

I'm not saying you're at the "end of the road" here, but you're at a point in this cycle that is both anticipated and well-documented. Continuing to use like this inevitably ends with increasingly diminished returns over the course of long periods of time. The returns of your drugs are chipped away bit by bit until you wouldn't even recognize them anymore. The effects that Opioids will eventually bring you, well, let's just say they are not good enough to make anyone start using them in the first place.

Tolerance breaks and adjustments to your intake could bring back some of the positive effects of the Opioids, but you are likely heading for the same conclusion that the rest of us ended up at.

 

[helpingout]

Opioid tolerance is a lot like an elastic band. You stretch it far enough and it will interfere with the the function of the elastic.

Opioid tolerance is not something that I've ever seen to be "resettable". Generally, once people cross over into the "chronic, heavy" usage patterns like yourself, it becomes pretty much impossible to ever have the elastic snap back to where it was before. This is why I preach intense discipline regarding chronic Opioid usage. Every decision to take an extra dose can ripple out in ways that are hard to discern in the moment.

I was a Heroin user for over a decade. I've used Methadone for years also. I've had periods of complete abstinence from Opioids. I've gone for ~1.5 years without Opioids. When I eventually relapsed, it took me about 8 days to reach the levels of usage I had been at during the height of my usage. It only took so long as I was trying so desperately to keep it under control. For most people, it's 3-4 days before they're back in a serious habit. I've seen people go months, even years only to return to their original patterns of usage as if they had never stopped.

Opioids eventually lose most of their luster. Your trying to recapture the feeling of relatively low doses of Oxycodone is a pretty classic tale. Most addicts who are in your position settle into a notion that just feeling effects like sedation, itching etc. is a "good" experience even if it is devoid of the euphoria and warmth that Opioids once brought.

I'm not saying you're at the "end of the road" here, but you're at a point in this cycle that is both anticipated and well-documented. Continuing to use like this inevitably ends with increasingly diminished returns over the course of long periods of time. The returns of your drugs are chipped away bit by bit until you wouldn't even recognize them anymore. The effects that Opioids will eventually bring you, well, let's just say they are not good enough to make anyone start using them in the first place.

Tolerance breaks and adjustments to your intake could bring back some of the positive effects of the Opioids, but you are likely heading for the same conclusion that the rest of us ended up at.

Damn Keif,

This is your best writing on the site to date. Excellent and cogent presentation of the arguement for serious discipline regarding chronic opiate usage.

 

[Them Witches]

I would say 1000mg of Opia 7-OH daily habit would require 600mg Roxicodone daily to get something desirable off the Oxycodone.

This is coming from an extremely seasoned opioid tolerance.

IMO, both 7-OH and Oxycodone have a ceiling effect making cross tolerance a double edge sword of fuckery.

 

[jgoz7]

I would say 1000mg of Opia 7-OH daily habit would require 600mg Roxicodone daily to get something desirable off the Oxycodone.

This is coming from an extremely seasoned opioid tolerance.

IMO, both 7-OH and Oxycodone have a ceiling effect making cross tolerance a double edge sword of fuckery.

So if I have been taking about 60-120mg a day of 7 for about a week and go back to my oxy am I screwed ?

 

[Keif' Richards]

Thanks @helpingout I'm always pleased when a diatribe ends up coherent and not as a rambling mess

So if I have been taking about 60-120mg a day of 7 for about a week and go back to my oxy am I screwed ?

There is always going to be the variable regarding the strength/potency of your product. However, we can't really debate that here as we have no way of knowing, thus, this is an erroneous area of discussion as far as we are concerned here at Bluelight.

Given what we know about the potency of 7-OH, you have likely jacked your tolerance up to a considerable degree here. You're now at a place where you can decide either to be disciplined and do the hard work of cutting your dosage back over the course of several weeks or you can continue to take the 7-OH and likely end up in a far worse predicament.

I would advise you to call this dalliance with 7-OH a bad mistake and return to the relative safety of what you know. Even still, remember what I said about the ripples. Mistakes like this can be a lot more destructive than they seem in the moment. For a lot of people, mistakes just like this are what put them at the fork in the road that, looking back 10 years on, they regret.

I would advise using whatever is in your wheelhouse to scale back on your dosage; willpower, comfort medications etc. If you want advice, let me know.

 

[jgoz7]

Thanks @helpingout I'm always pleased when a diatribe ends up coherent and not as a rambling mess



There is always going to be the variable regarding the strength/potency of your product. However, we can't really debate that here as we have no way of knowing, thus, this is an erroneous area of discussion as far as we are concerned here at Bluelight.

Given what we know about the potency of 7-OH, you have likely jacked your tolerance up to a considerable degree here. You're now at a place where you can decide either to be disciplined and do the hard work of cutting your dosage back over the course of several weeks or you can continue to take the 7-OH and likely end up in a far worse predicament.

I would advise you to call this dalliance with 7-OH a bad mistake and return to the relative safety of what you know. Even still, remember what I said about the ripples. Mistakes like this can be a lot more destructive than they seem in the moment. For a lot of people, mistakes just like this are what put them at the fork in the road that, looking back 10 years on, they regret.

I would advise using whatever is in your wheelhouse to scale back on your dosage; willpower, comfort medications etc. If you want advice, let me know.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I’m thinking ab cutting it back a lot and using just plain leaf if I start to have WD just for a few days. I have about a week left before I get my script back. I just want the oxy to be effective when I go back is the main thing.

 

[helpingout]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I’m thinking ab cutting it back a lot and using just plain leaf if I start to have WD just for a few days. I have about a week left before I get my script back. I just want the oxy to be effective when I go back is the main thing.

Plain leaf fucks your oxy tolerance as well.

What you need is to get sick and stay sick until you get your oxy

 

[pnillyg]

Question. I’ve been using 15-20mg of oxy everyday now for a few months. It applies to the OPs post and the rest. Also benzos, ssris, gabapentin, sleeping meds. I’m on it all fortunately or unfortunately… but I’m trying to figure out 2 things, 1. What do I taper first? (doc put me on benzos, gabapentin, and ssris to come off of the oxy… but now I’m just kn all of them. 2. If I run out of oxy before my refill date could I use 7-oh as a bridge to get me through a few days before my refill?

 

[Them Witches]

Plain leaf fucks your oxy tolerance as well.

What you need is to get sick and stay sick until you get your oxy

Opioids always with the back hand abuse

 

[Them Witches]

Question. I’ve been using 15-20mg of oxy everyday now for a few months. It applies to the OPs post and the rest. Also benzos, ssris, gabapentin, sleeping meds. I’m on it all fortunately or unfortunately… but I’m trying to figure out 2 things, 1. What do I taper first? (doc put me on benzos, gabapentin, and ssris to come off of the oxy… but now I’m just kn all of them. 2. If I run out of oxy before my refill date could I use 7-oh as a bridge to get me through a few days before my refill?

Well that option is over. 7-OH would have made a great pain management Rx. Why didn't those greedy bastards take over the shit show?

Oct. 1st the shit got pulled off shelves.

10mg-20mg of oxy withdrawal is not that bad. You have to run the TV, get on-line, music, cigs, meds, weed all at once to keep the head busy.

My 70 year old Dad was good after 2-3 days on that much Oxy.

 

[Kryphex Vexor]

I would say 1000mg of Opia 7-OH daily habit would require 600mg Roxicodone daily to get something desirable off the Oxycodone.

This is coming from an extremely seasoned opioid tolerance.

IMO, both 7-OH and Oxycodone have a ceiling effect making cross tolerance a double edge sword of fuckery.

But how long of a break should I take from the 7OH you think? Until I can start using oxy and feel it again? I’m planning on switching back to plain leaf.

 

[Them Witches]

But how long of a break should I take from the 7OH you think? Until I can start using oxy and feel it again? I’m planning on switching back to plain leaf.

All opioids are a 3 day ordeal to baseline. Not comfortable by any means and still there is pain.

5 days Oxy should work again. The issue is your 7-OH tolerance is higher than your Oxy.

The brain has to forget and that can take 2 weeks to a month

 

[endlessnameless]

But how long of a break should I take from the 7OH you think? Until I can start using oxy and feel it again? I’m planning on switching back to plain leaf.

Didn't you read Keif' Richards post? I suggest you do.

 

[Kryphex Vexor]

All opioids are a 3 day ordeal to baseline. Not comfortable by any means and still there is pain.

5 days Oxy should work again. The issue is your 7-OH tolerance is higher than your Oxy.

The brain has to forget and that can take 2 weeks to a month

So a break of about two weeks to a month should do it? This is the estimate I had in mind as well.
Didn't you read Keif' Richards post? I suggest you d

 

[Kryphex Vexor]

Plain leaf fucks your oxy tolerance as well.

What you need is to get sick and stay sick until you get your oxy

In my experience I was able to use plain leaf as well as occasional oxy use with no problems. I was still able to feel the oxy. I didn’t have a problem until I started this 7OH bullshit.

 

[Kryphex Vexor]

Opioid tolerance is a lot like an elastic band. You stretch it far enough and it will interfere with the the function of the elastic.

Opioid tolerance is not something that I've ever seen to be "resettable". Generally, once people cross over into the "chronic, heavy" usage patterns like yourself, it becomes pretty much impossible to ever have the elastic snap back to where it was before. This is why I preach intense discipline regarding chronic Opioid usage. Every decision to take an extra dose can ripple out in ways that are hard to discern in the moment.

I was a Heroin user for over a decade. I've used Methadone for years also. I've had periods of complete abstinence from Opioids. I've gone for ~1.5 years without Opioids. When I eventually relapsed, it took me about 8 days to reach the levels of usage I had been at during the height of my usage. It only took so long as I was trying so desperately to keep it under control. For most people, it's 3-4 days before they're back in a serious habit. I've seen people go months, even years only to return to their original patterns of usage as if they had never stopped.

Opioids eventually lose most of their luster. Your trying to recapture the feeling of relatively low doses of Oxycodone is a pretty classic tale. Most addicts who are in your position settle into a notion that just feeling effects like sedation, itching etc. is a "good" experience even if it is devoid of the euphoria and warmth that Opioids once brought.

I'm not saying you're at the "end of the road" here, but you're at a point in this cycle that is both anticipated and well-documented. Continuing to use like this inevitably ends with increasingly diminished returns over the course of long periods of time. The returns of your drugs are chipped away bit by bit until you wouldn't even recognize them anymore. The effects that Opioids will eventually bring you, well, let's just say they are not good enough to make anyone start using them in the first place.

Tolerance breaks and adjustments to your intake could bring back some of the positive effects of the Opioids, but you are likely heading for the same conclusion that the rest of us ended up at.

I appreciate you trying to answer my post but this is just not true I’m sorry to say. Opioid tolerance is not resettable? The people I know who have died after relapse to their previous dose before getting clean beg to differ. I’ve also had massive peaks and valleys in my tolerance throughout my 9 years of use. Also, with all due respect I don’t need a lecture either. I’ve come on here to ask a simple question and it seems a lot of people on here are unable to do that for some reason.

 

[Kryphex Vexor]

Didn't you read Keif' Richards post? I suggest you do.

Yes I did, the post about the elastic band, yes unfortunately it was useless to me, no offense to him of course. With all due respect, 1. I don’t some pretentious lecture about where I will be ending up and number 2. He said he doesn’t know opioid tolerance to be “resettable” which is laughable at best and dangerous misinformation at worst. The people I’ve known who’ve died after a relapse to their previous dose after treatment beg to differ and I also know this not to be true as I’ve had massive peaks and valleys in my tolerance in my 9 years of use. So, unfortunately it seems as if there’s only been one person to vaguely answer one of my straightforward questions on this site for some reason.

 

[WellTram]

Yes I did, the post about the elastic band, yes unfortunately it was useless to me, no offense to him of course. With all due respect, 1. I don’t some pretentious lecture about where I will be ending up and number 2. He said he doesn’t know opioid tolerance to be “resettable” which is laughable at best and dangerous misinformation at worst. The people I’ve known who’ve died after a relapse to their previous dose after treatment beg to differ and I also know this not to be true as I’ve had massive peaks and valleys in my tolerance in my 9 years of use. So, unfortunately it seems as if there’s only been one person to vaguely answer one of my straightforward questions on this site for some reason.

Tolerance to opioids can be reduced with opioid antagonist + dissociative treatment but it will only makes you able to feel lower doses and only for very short time if u plan on taking opioids daily again.
1, the longer you take reduced amount of 70H the better, maybe dont use it at all and use kratom powder only or taper 7OH without adding any kratom to it. 7 days of taper will prepare your body and your opi receptors for low dose being the new dose now and after 7 days you will be feeling better, slightly better every day after taking reduced doses for a week.
Try to wait another 7 days. Give your body time to addapt and revire. Your body should be ready to feel good on taking tapered dose for 7 days of tapering + 7 days taking tapered doses.
Adding oxy after 14 days should be ok in that u will feel it, but it will make your tolerance higher again, maybe even 1 dose and you will be taking 70H with oxy, successfuly erasing everything that changed in 2 weeks.
My advice Is to taper for as long as possible, get to lowest daily dose possible and than take ONLY oxy or ONLY 7OH. 14 days is minimum and the biological effects you obtained by tapering are still extremely fragile. Searching for effectivness in low doses require taking low doses for a long time. Sometimes even months to be able taking more once in a while and don't screw your tolerance again.
Nothing but kratom, 7OH and oxy i mean u like/can get only these 3 opioid drugs ?
Definitely don't take any opioids with higher affinity or any prodrugs of them.

 

[Kryphex Vexor]

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate it. My plan is to get off the 7 completely and switch to leaf for at least a week before I try a low dose (30mg oxy). I have 20 blues waiting for me (that I plan to use sparingly of course). So I’ll be taking raw leaf for the next week(min), hopefully two weeks. I will report back as well. I’ll report back as well with my experience once I actually do this.