Coming off methadone (after 4 years stable)

[MidnightDevil]

Hi all !

First off, this is a brilliant community and for a few years it's been a foundation of information for many people finding their way out or navigating the side road of substances, and I thank you all for this.

So, I'm posting hopefully to get some feedback regarding my tapper plan, support tools (supplements) , planned support tools for pre and post jump (from GP/Clinic).

I am right now on 6mg and I've been titrating from 30mg the past 4 months.

My tapper plan is to end in the 25 of October (being today 29 Sept) (you'll know why soon) and until then I am (very briefly as I have this down to the day) go a little quicker from 6mg (dropping .50 one day, .50 on another, stabilise 1-2 days, continue), and spend a little longer lurking at 1ml / 50 / 25, not that long, around a full week under 1ml, and jump at 2-3 dosings of .25, with last day jumping one day, dosing and come off completely (this one is optional and will be a last case scenario of redosing).

Supplements stack (these are generally high strengh tablets)
- Magnesium 3x formula (elemental, citrate, glyc.) (1 morning, 1 night)
- NAC (N-acetylcysteine) (1 morning)
- Omega3 (1 morning)
- VitaminC (1 morning, 1 afternoon, 1 evening, 1 night maybe - during the two weeks of post jump, I am alreadt taking 1/2 twice per day).
- Ashwaganda (1 morning, 1 night)
- Multi mineral / vitamins supplement. (1 morning)
- L-Thianine (1 morning)
(Any opinions are very much welcome).

Hoping to get from my clinic / GP :
My clinic can offer only Zopiclone, unfortunately withdrawals aren't limited to night shifts, so I am lacking daytime tools, enters GP, which I hope to get (with help of Dr from Clinic, or at least recommend it):
- Clonidine or variant
- Gabapentin or variant

I have an appointment coming with Clinic doctor which hopefully I can get him and my GP to colab and prescribe me the very tools I will likely need to make this jump possible.

Ambition:
Travel to Egypt on 14 November (Funny enough, Methadone is actually banned there) , leaving 20 days buffer between jump date and travel date. I know its not the 4 weeks its generalised that the withdrawals may last, but with the supplements and .25ml/mg (1mg=1ml) jump, I am hoping to feel much better by then, enough to stand in from of the pyramids that probably seen everything during their 4.5K year old existence... But this is a hardline, a motivation that I can't change, I have been wanting to titrate for years (2 years ago I was down to 5mg until some issues with clinic/NHS handover hit and well, doesn't matter, I've been stable on 30 ever since).

Mindset: Optimistic, I maintain myself active, I cycle 5-10km per day, and I can afford to spend some sick days now in bed if needed than later (under relatively tolerable symptoms).

May I ask your opinion on this plan, supplement stack or anything else? How would you do it differently maintaining same or larger cushion between travel date? Is my optimistic view relatively grounded or am I trippin' ? I've been clean over 3 years with nothing else, just my daiy occasional joint (which im also considering swapping for a indica or hash if unable to get it, but thats something else).

Thanks in advance for reading

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Hi all !

First off, this is a brilliant community and for a few years it's been a foundation of information for many people finding their way out or navigating the side road of substances, and I thank you all for this.

So, I'm posting hopefully to get some feedback regarding my tapper plan, support tools (supplements) , planned support tools for pre and post jump (from GP/Clinic).

I am right now on 6mg and I've been titrating from 30mg the past 4 months.

My tapper plan is to end in the 25 of October (being today 29 Sept) (you'll know why soon) and until then I am (very briefly as I have this down to the day) go a little quicker from 6mg (dropping .50 one day, .50 on another, stabilise 1-2 days, continue), and spend a little longer lurking at 1ml / 50 / 25, not that long, around a full week under 1ml, and jump at 2-3 dosings of .25, with last day jumping one day, dosing and come off completely (this one is optional and will be a last case scenario of redosing).

Supplements stack (these are generally high strengh tablets)
- Magnesium 3x formula (elemental, citrate, glyc.) (1 morning, 1 night)
- NAC (N-acetylcysteine) (1 morning)
- Omega3 (1 morning)
- VitaminC (1 morning, 1 afternoon, 1 evening, 1 night maybe - during the two weeks of post jump, I am alreadt taking 1/2 twice per day).
- Ashwaganda (1 morning, 1 night)
- Multi mineral / vitamins supplement. (1 morning)
- L-Thianine (1 morning)
(Any opinions are very much welcome).

Hoping to get from my clinic / GP :
My clinic can offer only Zopiclone, unfortunately withdrawals aren't limited to night shifts, so I am lacking daytime tools, enters GP, which I hope to get (with help of Dr from Clinic, or at least recommend it):
- Clonidine or variant
- Gabapentin or variant

I have an appointment coming with Clinic doctor which hopefully I can get him and my GP to colab and prescribe me the very tools I will likely need to make this jump possible.

Ambition:
Travel to Egypt on 14 November (Funny enough, Methadone is actually banned there) , leaving 20 days buffer between jump date and travel date. I know its not the 4 weeks its generalised that the withdrawals may last, but with the supplements and .25ml/mg (1mg=1ml) jump, I am hoping to feel much better by then, enough to stand in from of the pyramids that probably seen everything during their 4.5K year old existence... But this is a hardline, a motivation that I can't change, I have been wanting to titrate for years (2 years ago I was down to 5mg until some issues with clinic/NHS handover hit and well, doesn't matter, I've been stable on 30 ever since).

Mindset: Optimistic, I maintain myself active, I cycle 5-10km per day, and I can afford to spend some sick days now in bed if needed than later (under relatively tolerable symptoms).

May I ask your opinion on this plan, supplement stack or anything else? How would you do it differently maintaining same or larger cushion between travel date? Is my optimistic view relatively grounded or am I trippin' ? I've been clean over 3 years with nothing else, just my daiy occasional joint (which im also considering swapping for a indica or hash if unable to get it, but thats something else).

Thanks in advance for reading

NHS Doctors sure AREN'T a Magic Bullet & over 90% of Doctors who are NHS will refuse point-blank to write any script if they think you are a "Goddamn drug addict" I Promise you.

Let us ask a real doctor if what I said is true, Mr @LoginNotSecure I leave this to you Sir.

 

[MidnightDevil]

NHS Doctors sure AREN'T a Magic Bullet & over 90% of Doctors who are NHS will refuse point-blank to write any script if they think you are a "Goddamn drug addict" I Promise you.

Let us ask a real doctor if what I said is true, Mr @LoginNotSecure I leave this to you Sir.

I appreciate and yes I agree, by experience that is the first contact I had, however I'll have an appointment in a couple days with my clinic that prescribed methadone and is aware of my detox process, to see if I can ask them and my GP to collaborate in how we can succeed, sure as hell I won't give up because while they are there theorising on harm reduction, I got 28 flasks on my drawer full to the brim over titrating over the last 5 months, so sure as hell as a high isn't what im after.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

y I ask you if it's possible to PM about it and what process you used?

No need to PM me, I will tell you on here.

Started Heroin back in 2001, longest I had off it since is when I went on a long a-PVP binge & ended up going mad after not sleeping for over a week.
I am now on Methadone, I started on 40mg & now down to 35mg, I will be totally Opiate free by two weeks.


"I have seen life measured out in eyedroppers of morphine solution. I experienced the agonizing deprivation of junk sickness, and the pleasure of relief when junk-thirsty cells drank from the needle. Perhaps all pleasure is relief. I have learned the cellular stoicism that junk teaches the user. I have seen a cell full of sick junkies silent and immobile in separate misery. They knew the pointlessness of complaining or moving. They knew that basically no one can help anyone else. There is no key, no secret someone else has that he can give you." - William S Burroughs.

 

[MidnightDevil]

Ah so

No need to PM me, I will tell you on here.

Started Heroin back in 2001, longest I had off it since is when I went on a long a-PVP binge & ended up going mad after not sleeping for over a week.
I am now on Methadone, I started on 40mg & now down to 35mg, I will be totally Opiate free by two weeks.


"I have seen life measured out in eyedroppers of morphine solution. I experienced the agonizing deprivation of junk sickness, and the pleasure of relief when junk-thirsty cells drank from the needle. Perhaps all pleasure is relief. I have learned the cellular stoicism that junk teaches the user. I have seen a cell full of sick junkies silent and immobile in separate misery. They knew the pointlessness of complaining or moving. They knew that basically no one can help anyone else. There is no key, no secret someone else has that he can give you." - William S Burroughs.

Ah you're using methadone as a quick tapper / detox then?

 

[LoginNotSecure]

NHS Doctors sure AREN'T a Magic Bullet & over 90% of Doctors who are NHS will refuse point-blank to write any script if they think you are a "Goddamn drug addict" I Promise you.

Let us ask a real doctor if what I said is true, Mr @LoginNotSecure I leave this to you Sir.

Very much case by case, but if I can smell you before you've walked into the room, you're already getting subpar treatment. But early on you get a nose for "seeking" type questions, behaviours etc. The genuine will always shine through.

 

[MidnightDevil]

Very much case by case, but if I can smell you before you've walked into the room, you're already getting subpar treatment. But early on you get a nose for "seeking" type questions, behaviours etc. The genuine will always shine through.

I am very much serious on my process and completely available and transparent for whatever they require including testing, but I am not going to be subject of 'zopiclone' for 'less abuse potential' or not being able to get any relief from RLS (for example, happening right now) because of their assumptions and outdated protocols (to the point of suggesting a worst alternative like BACLOFEN). So my research and plan is sound, logic and grounded on my experience taking into absolute consideration risk and harm reduction, I'm absolutely opened for suggestions opinions of all kinds, but my guideline and process is set, I just need some help to deal with the harsher symptoms. GPs can theorise harm reduction all they want, but the actual harm reduction is being lived, implemented here in real time. I'm not asking for much but the standard treatment for these situations. Or it's just better to get them off the street? How does that work for 'harm reduction' ?

 

[LoginNotSecure]

I am very much serious on my process and completely available and transparent for whatever they require including testing, but I am not going to be subject of 'zopiclone' for 'less abuse potential' or not being able to get any relief from RLS (for example, happening right now) because of their assumptions and outdated protocols (to the point of suggesting a worst alternative like BACLOFEN). So my research and plan is sound, logic and grounded on my experience taking into absolute consideration risk and harm reduction, I'm absolutely opened for suggestions opinions of all kinds, but my guideline and process is set, I just need some help to deal with the harsher symptoms. GPs can theorise harm reduction all they want, but the actual harm reduction is being lived, implemented here in real time. I'm not asking for much but the standard treatment for these situations. Or it's just better to get them off the street? How does that work for 'harm reduction' ?

Then I'd suggest going private, at least then you're listened too. If you can't afford it and you go from Dr to Dr, you will be seen as "Dr shopping" and it'll definitely be on your (internal) notes.

 

[MidnightDevil]

Then I'd suggest going private, at least then you're listened too. If you can't afford it and you go from Dr to Dr, you will be seen as "Dr shopping" and it'll definitely be on your (internal) notes.

I'm not going from doctor to doctor, in fact I suggested keeping the same for monitoring and coherence. The only two doctors involved are CGL methadone prescribing authority and my GP. Going private isn't a choice and this is honestly basic healthcare. You shouldn't need to pay just to be listened to However you put it. No addict has a shit load of opioids on his drawer from tappering down or schedules a drug pick up two weeks from now, the fact no one is willing to assist and see the reality reframes the whole system we're built in. CGL doesn't focus on detox rather harm reduction, so their plan is just zopiclone, I didn't ask, they offered. My request of clonodine comes from research, well grounded and sound. Regardless of "Whatever reason you don't to be liable for" the alternative,any whatsoever,is way worse and the fact that this is genuinely a ask for help to come off a drug and being met with this resistance is honestly horrifying.

 

[MidnightDevil]

Your post confirms exactly why patients lose trust. Clinical notes are for continuity of care, not for punitive labeling or behavioral coercion. Using the threat of an internal 'Dr shopping' tag to steer patients toward private care is a clear violation of GDPR's data fairness principles and a breach of GMC professional conduct regarding conflict of interest.
My refusal of Zopiclone and my request for Gabapentin/Clonidine is an evidence-based harm reduction choice. Threatening to punish a patient for seeking optimal care is an abuse of your professional position and a failure of your ethical duty.

 

[LoginNotSecure]

Your post confirms exactly why patients lose trust. Clinical notes are for continuity of care, not for punitive labeling or behavioral coercion. Using the threat of an internal 'Dr shopping' tag to steer patients toward private care is a clear violation of GDPR's data fairness principles and a breach of GMC professional conduct regarding conflict of interest.
My refusal of Zopiclone and my request for Gabapentin/Clonidine is an evidence-based harm reduction choice. Threatening to punish a patient for seeking optimal care is an abuse of your professional position and a failure of your ethical duty.

You can call it what you want and whine about it just as much, doesn't change the fact they're the one with the prescription pad, and you are not.

 

[MidnightDevil]

The prescription pad is not a personal vet, or your ego checkbook ; it is a fiduciary tool governed by the GMC’s duty of care. My plan is not 'whining'; it is evidence-based advocacy:
Clonidine is a FIRST LINE agent for opioid withdrawal, proven to suppress symptoms with zero abuse potential.
Gabapentin is proven to reduce withdrawal anxiety, RLS, and aid sleep.
The refusal these non-addictive, standard aids, while offering high-dependence Z-drugs, suggests they are prioritizing an unsubstantiated policy fear over clinical efficacy and patient safety.
Their power is subordinate to their ethical duty. If they continue to deny evidence-based, low-risk symptomatic care, they will be committing a breach of duty, and the only logical step remaining is escalation.
If you were the GP that would say that to my face, you wouldn't just get a slap in he wrist. That immobile position isn't just rather immature (everyone's the same / can't bother to actually help someone) , perhaps someone else should hold that little book of yours. Also, given *harm reduction* all if these, can be bought off the street, but I guess it's less of a *your problem* if isn't you prescribing, despite having legal and genuine reasons. It's okay, that's expected unfortunately, incompetence like this gets normalised and people who need help gets stigmatised to stay on a prescription drug throughout their life with a permanent label of the past regardless of everything else. Your perspective is wrong, unprofessional and it's not the what our NHS should stand for.

Anyway I have an appointment with a specialist so thanks.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

and you go from Dr to Dr, you will be seen as "Dr shopping" and it'll definitely be on your (internal) notes.

Oh Fuck!!!!!
I assume my notes from Doctors have huge red lines saying what a Goddamn Junkie, Doctor Shopping Cunt I am.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Your post confirms exactly why patients lose trust. Clinical notes are for continuity of care, not for punitive labeling or behavioral coercion. Using the threat of an internal 'Dr shopping' tag to steer patients toward private care is a clear violation of GDPR's data fairness principles and a breach of GMC professional conduct regarding conflict of interest.
My refusal of Zopiclone and my request for Gabapentin/Clonidine is an evidence-based harm reduction choice. Threatening to punish a patient for seeking optimal care is an abuse of your professional position and a failure of your ethical duty.

Are you stupid?
That person is a NHS Doctor, you can cry as much as you want BUT what I RESPECT 100% about @LoginNotSecure is he tells you like it is, he refuses to sugar-coat the Truth & it's a blessing to the whole of BL we can see how NHS Doctors really think etc.

I can respect Truth & honesty on a level that "Woke Gen-Z" types will cry about & need a Trigger Warning about.
You really aren't cut out for the Opiate street life or anything to do with Opiates, you have as much backbone as a plate of Jelly.

 

[MidnightDevil]

Are you stupid?
That person is a NHS Doctor, you can cry as much as you want BUT what I RESPECT 100% about @LoginNotSecure is he tells you like it is, he refuses to sugar-coat the Truth & it's a blessing to the whole of BL we can see how NHS Doctors really think etc.

I can respect Truth & honesty on a level that "Woke Gen-Z" types will cry about & need a Trigger Warning about.
You really aren't cut out for the Opiate street life or anything to do with Opiates, you have as much backbone as a plate of Jelly.

He could be santa Claus for all I care. I am not drug seeking and I need two medications to help, you can kiss his ego's ass all you want, I haven't lost respect to myself. And keep your little agressive behaviour to yourself. And I'm likely older than you.

 

[MidnightDevil]

I thought this community was a bit different, lived experience and all, and for someone seeking help to get my life back, this kind of posts, is honestly, a lost cause. I wish you guys well.

And for the moron up here, I am ending a 15 year misery of life, seems like your little street drugs really fucked you up to the point you can't tell right from wrong, or truth Vs fiction. I wish you a healthy recovery though.

This is sad as shit.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

you can kiss his and his ego's ass all you want

FYI I hated him for years till I actually got to know him.

. And keep your little agressive behaviour to yourself.

Objective VS Subjective view of the subject.

And I'm likely older than you.

And that holds water? I think not. I am 45 in 5 weeks btw.

 

[MidnightDevil]

Honey, he's not 'telling how it is', he's using his own powers to decide assuming I'm drug seeking, let me ask you this, I got a drawer full of methadone flasks, 40m each, I could knock myself out for weeks, I spend 35 quid in supplements, I could just spend on the street and get gabapentin or whatever from there, but I am on a prescription medication (methadone) coming off it and I just need two little things that are the FUCKING GOLD STANDARD for shit like this. Tell me where I am drug seeking? Because if clearly im not, his attitude is just that, attitude, arrogance, and idiocracy, and you moron supporting that kind of assumption WHEN ITS CLEAR ITS NOT THE FUCKING CASE, should be more considerative of the information available instead of automaticaly jumping to kiss his ass. No junkie goes into GP office with a full fucking drawn up plan with a fuckload of information, transparency, availibility, asking for drugs in two weeks time sitting on a fucking supply of opiates. The irony here is that since this automatically shoots down the argument of drug seeking, it seems to be dismissed. Hey want me to send you the zopiclone my doctor gave me since I m not taking it? Would that make it feel better? Dismissed.
Requested thread to be closed. I don't need anymore shit from anyone. Came here trying to find support and ideas of what else I can do, all I got was this bullshit. Fuck off.