Misc 7OH Potentiation

[Esperighanto]

As far as intranasal that surprises me because it's almost aways a freebase so I wouldn't think absorption would be the best.

I can attest that smoking/vaping does work. I do not recommend it. It's kind of addictive.

I also notice that 7-OH by itself strongly potentiates alcohol for me.

How would you compare the vaporized/smoked experience to the oral experience of 7-OH?

 

[Didgital]

How would you compare the vaporized/smoked experience to the oral experience of 7-OH?

honestly i scurred to talk about it. instantaneous intoxication. It's not what i thought smoking morphine would be like. If it is comparable, i prefer smoking cannabis or dmt.

it has a very rushy but to me neutral feeling, general feelings of well being for about 1 hour and then - Crash


Oral to me is a much gentler climb up and down and tends to make me sleepy. Smoking it uhhh, i cleaned my house for 3 hours.

I want to reiterate, combining 7-OH with alcohol noticeably potentiates the alcohol side of things.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

I have been told of someone knowingly taking 500mg orally and being fine, granted the person had a tolerance.

As far as intranasal that surprises me because it's almost aways a freebase so I wouldn't think absorption would be the best.

I can attest that smoking/vaping does work. I do not recommend it. It's kind of addictive.

I also notice that 7-OH by itself strongly potentiates alcohol for me.

I’ve actually taken pretty ridiculous amounts, especially when I got the powder or 30, 40, or 50 mg tablets. I blew through those on like some sort of 7oh bender I guess you’d call it, and I don’t know if this matters but I’m a pretty small chick. I definitely noticed that on those benders I’d wake up a couple days later and genuinely have to stop and think what I was doing, eating, ect. for the last couple days (almost akin to doing a bunch of benzos … I know they are not benzos but I’m just saying my experience). Well I actually was taking some benzos too, but due to the really heavy amounts of 7oh I was doing I took a really very low amount of benzos than I normally do. But I would not recommend doing what I did for a number of reasons … messed up my GI tract, blew money and SHOT my tolerance. I’ve been getting myself off it lately and trying to go back to regular kratom and then back to just tramadol.

For harm reduction’s sake please know I’m not advocating for anything I’ve done here but thought some of ya might be interested when I saw you talking about higher doses & all. Also got very mixed reviews from people saying they vaped it, which I just straight up wasn’t into doing.

 

[Esperighanto]

honestly i scurred to talk about it. instantaneous intoxication. It's not what i thought smoking morphine would be like. If it is comparable, i prefer smoking cannabis or dmt.

it has a very rushy but to me neutral feeling, general feelings of well being for about 1 hour and then - Crash


Oral to me is a much gentler climb up and down and tends to make me sleepy. Smoking it uhhh, i cleaned my house for 3 hours.

I want to reiterate, combining 7-OH with alcohol noticeably potentiates the alcohol side of things.

I understand being scared to talk about these things, I'm a huge fan of vaporized Etizolam (it's in a box mod), and I couldn't even imagine the chaos if that was a more common practice among benzo enthusiasts. I appreciate the info you've provided here nonetheless!

I definitely noticed that on those benders I’d wake up a couple days later and genuinely have to stop and think what I was doing eating, ect. for the last couple days

My first experience with 7-OH was a single "Roxy" branded smoke shop tablet, and I'm very sensitive to opioids, rarely consuming them at all in the first place. I blacked out for something like 12-15 hours and apparently threatened to kill a friend and my now fiancee over that period, and I'm definitely the greatest threat vector out of anybody I know so that was pretty problematic. Oxycodone and the sort do me like that too nowadays, any opioid that's potent enough will, but after that initial use I can let my 7-OH tolerance go down for months or longer and then dose super high and not have any issues.

 

[Deleted member 588532]

I take around 20mg 7-oh sublingual strips per day average. More like 10mg during the week then party a bit more weekends. I wouldn't call it terribly addictive for me (famous last words, lol). Keeping track of doses on my wall calendar helps a ton, though.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

I’ve actually taken pretty ridiculous amounts, especially when I got the powder or 30, 40, or 50 mg tablets. I blew through those on like some sort of 7oh bender I guess you’d call it, and I don’t know if this matters but I’m a pretty small chick. I definitely noticed that on those benders I’d wake up a couple days later and genuinely have to stop and think what I was doing, eating, ect. for the last couple days (almost akin to doing a bunch of benzos … I know they are not benzos but I’m just saying my experience). Well I actually was taking some benzos too, but due to the really heavy amounts of 7oh I was doing I took a really very low amount of benzos than I normally do. But I would not recommend doing what I did for a number of reasons … messed up my GI tract, blew money and SHOT my tolerance. I’ve been getting myself off it lately and trying to go back to regular kratom and then back to just tramadol.

For harm reduction’s sake please know I’m not advocating for anything I’ve done here but thought some of ya might be interested when I saw you talking about higher doses & all. Also got very mixed reviews from people saying they vaped it, which I just straight up wasn’t into doing.

I would love some tramadol too bad nobody fucking advertises it on the streets lol

 

[Mycophile]

Partially off topic, but I totally love both plain leaf and regular extracts that aren't 7-OH-related.

Would most here agree that I'm better off NOT getting into 7-OH?

Cause I've already read threads where people talked about how insanely addictive it is, so I really think it's best that I never even touch it so I don't know what I'm missing. I mean, I still enjoy regular extracts and sometimes plain leaf if my tolerance is low enough.

 

[red22]

Strychnos nux-vomica extract may prevent tolerance build up:

Strychnos nux-vomica extract has been shown to help and there have been serious fans of its effects in general. It does have a pleasant, analgesic effect if the dose is kept low. I first heard about its use as a "drug" on this site.

A Unani drug combination (containing SNV with other plants) was tested on the opiate abstinence syndrome in moderately and severely morphine-dependent rats. Results showed that the drug combination markedly suppressed the opiate abstinence syndrome, and possessed central depressant and analgesic activity.(35)

35. Shahana Y, Zafar KMY, Zillur RS. Elaboration of the pharmacodynamics of some indigenous drugs claimed to have de-addictive effects. Ethnobiology in human welfare: abstracts of the fourth international congress of ethnobiology, Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh, India;1994:298.

A review on medicinal uses, analytical techniques and pharmacological activities of Strychnos nux-vomica Linn.: A concise report. 2017. Patel, K., Laloo, D., Singh, G. K., Gadewar, M., & Patel, D. K. Chinese Journal of Integrative Medicine. Advance online publication. DOI: 10.1007/s11655-016-2514-1 (Effects of SNV on Central Nervous System, pg. 4)


Two testimonials and a link to my strychnine thread:

You all missed it, I think, but when you get tired of fucking around with the chicken feed weak stuff its time to meet the master blaster. Strychnine baby. THe strychnine man of the 1920s was the best dressed man in sleazy streets of Soho London. He was still functional when all the coke heads [were] edgy and coming down, when the morphine crowd were in the gutter.

Seriously this plant extract if you know how to use it is a very healthy, noortopic stimulant. It does have a safe window of use and was used in western medicine for centuries. It still is widely used in the east. It is banned from olympic sports for good reason[*]

Ze Baboon, 2009-07-26, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/herbs-that-are-energizing-stimulating.354918/page-2#post-638158


If there was a stimulant as nice as strychnine is that was not as toxic, it would be SUPER POPULAR. The problem with strychnine is that a good dose is 500 micrograms. A large dose is 3 milligrams. A deadly dose is about 30 mg or so. 10 times more than a large dose and it can be fatal. That's a MAJOR problem. When it was popular, too many people would OD on it. As little as 5 mg can cause unpleasant effects. It's just too dangerous for the average person to buy at the local store. Too many people like to overdo drugs and not follow the directions on the box. With strychnine, you cannot take it like it's caffeine. You have to be very careful about taking accurate doses or you'll be in for it.

I think if people capped it at 1 mg, and never took more than 1 mg, it would still be available. Too many people abuse these kinds of things thinking things like, "if 1 pill is good 10 should give me much more energy!", so they would take ten 3 mg pills, and then die shortly after (or just have painful convulsions if they were lucky).

69Ron, 2010-01-31, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-757000


Strychnine's association with peyote and LSD


*It is on the World Anti-doping Authority's banned substances list: https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list?page=0&q=strychnine&all=1#search-anchor (See S6. Stimulants)

 

[Esperighanto]

Partially off topic, but I totally love both plain leaf and regular extracts that aren't 7-OH-related.

Would most here agree that I'm better off NOT getting into 7-OH?

Cause I've already read threads where people talked about how insanely addictive it is, so I really think it's best that I never even touch it so I don't know what I'm missing. I mean, I still enjoy regular extracts and sometimes plain leaf if my tolerance is low enough.

I don't think it's addictiveness relative to a normal kratom extract is higher, personally. Just my opinion on it. I actually prefer mit to 7-OH.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Kratom interacts with many areas, it's not just an opioid.
Mitragynine works through cannabinoid receptors and -

Mitragynine possesses a non-opioid action through alpha-2 adrenergic, adenosine (A2A), dopamine (D2), and serotonin (5-HT2A, 5-HT2C, 5-HT7) receptors.

https://cris.maastrichtuniversity.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/241930531/c8620.pdf

Would most here agree that I'm better off NOT getting into 7-OH?

Going from "full-spectrum" kratom to pure 7-OH you loose a lot of the beneficial effects.

Acting as an agonist at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors, mitragynine engages mechanisms similar to clonidine, a drug used to manage opioid withdrawal symptoms. Alpha-2 agonism can reduce norepinephrine release, which calms the sympathetic nervous system and provides a sense of relaxation and reduced arousal. This agonism is particularly useful for managing symptoms of opioid withdrawal, including cravings, irritability, and heightened pain sensitivity.

The major constituent, mitragynine, is also a proposed agonist at the adrenergic alpha-2 receptor, a mechanism that is currently utilized in opioid withdrawal therapies with mechanism of action similar to clonidine, a selective alpha-2 receptor agonist.

Like clonidine, agmatine is an alpha-2 receptor agonist (+ NMDA antagonist) and a popular supplement. Broadly speaking it reduces tolerance build-up, reduces withdrawl symptoms, proactively repairs things (neurogenesis, upregulation) and potentiates the effects of most drugs, especially opioids, benzos and cannabinoids.

7OH potentiators?

- Agmatine
- Myrhh (oil or CO2 extract, in capsules ofc)
- curcumin
- Hordenine (D2 dopamine agonist, NRI stimulant, temporary MAO-Bi)
- Theacrine (boosts dopamine)
- Theanine
- Eugenol (opioid, glutamate antagonist)
- Terpenes that interact with opioid / adenosine / serotonin 5-HT1A / cannabinoid receptors
- CBG (potent alpha-2 adrenergic agonist)

All depends how you want to potentiate it.
Technically the right combination of those could replace 7-OH entirely.

Btw eugenol & grapefruit inhibit CYP3A4. CYP3A4 seems largely responsible for converting mitragynine to 7-OH.

Terpenes:
β-myrcene...stimulates the release of endogenous opioids through alpha-2 adrenergic receptor dependent mechanism.
...
Limonene ... increases serotonin and dopamine in the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus through 5-HT1A receptor.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925443920301162

 

[Mycophile]

I don't think it's addictiveness relative to a normal kratom extract is higher, personally. Just my opinion on it. I actually prefer mit to 7-OH.

That's really surprising (that you don't think it's more addictive) and also interesting that you prefer regular extracts and/or plain leaf to 7-OH.

I don't know, I've heard enough people on different parts of this forum talking about how insanely addictive they thought 7-OH products were that I think I'm probably better off not trying them to begin with so I don't know what I'm missing. I already have a hard time moderating with plain leaf and regular extracts.

That's also nice that you prefer regular Kratom, so in that way maybe I'm not missing that much. I don't know, I am interested in trying them and MAYBE someday I'll try one, but it just doesn't seem like a great idea or like it's worth the risk.

 

[Mycophile]

Kratom interacts with many areas, it's not just an opioid.
Mitragynine works through cannabinoid receptors and -

https://cris.maastrichtuniversity.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/241930531/c8620.pdf

Going from "full-spectrum" kratom to pure 7-OH you loose a lot of the beneficial effects.




Like clonidine, agmatine is an alpha-2 receptor agonist (+ NMDA antagonist) and a popular supplement. Broadly speaking it reduces tolerance build-up, reduces withdrawl symptoms, proactively repairs things (neurogenesis, upregulation) and potentiates the effects of most drugs, especially opioids, benzos and cannabinoids.



- Agmatine
- Myrhh (oil or CO2 extract, in capsules ofc)
- curcumin
- Hordenine (D2 dopamine agonist, NRI stimulant, temporary MAO-Bi)
- Theacrine (boosts dopamine)
- Theanine
- Eugenol (opioid, glutamate antagonist)
- Terpenes that interact with opioid / adenosine / serotonin 5-HT1A / cannabinoid receptors
- CBG (potent alpha-2 adrenergic agonist)

All depends how you want to potentiate it.
Technically the right combination of those could replace 7-OH entirely.

Btw eugenol & grapefruit inhibit CYP3A4. CYP3A4 seems largely responsible for converting mitragynine to 7-OH.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925443920301162

So that seems like another vote for someone who prefers regular kratom/extracts to 7-OH. I don't even want to risk trying 7-OH right now. I think better to avoid it as long as possible just in case.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I already have a hard time moderating with plain leaf and regular extracts.

Have you tried potentiating your kratom so you need less? Pre-dosed (or daily) agmatine would make it a more sustainable habit (aka easier to moderate) and reduce your tolerances.
Out of the OTC potentiators list from my previous post the best are probably:

- Myrhh (oil or CO2 extract, in capsules ofc)
- Agmatine
- Curcumin (pure extract available)
- Theanine
- Eugenol (opioid, glutamate antagonist) - aka clove oil
- Terpenes that interact with opioid / adenosine / serotonin 5-HT1A / cannabinoid receptors (eg linalool, myrcene, limonene)
- CBG (potent alpha-2 adrenergic agonist)

Theacrine and Hordenine are stimulants which isn't necessarily what kratom users are looking for.

 

[Esperighanto]

I already have a hard time moderating with plain leaf and regular extracts.

Think of Mit vs. 7-OH as Alcohol vs. Benzos. Benzos can hit you in a VERY similar way to alcohol, but without the hangovers, nausea, all of these side effects that make alcohol self-limiting for many people. 20mg of 7-OH feels like being able to take 50-75g of plain leaf with no nausea or wobbliness, but with the opioid effects and nothing else. My favorite effects from kratom are the ones that wake up my latent HPPD, aka the monoaminergic effects (things on norep, serotonin, etc.). Potentiating straight leaf (or 7-OH) with cimetidine is a worthwhile endeavor in my opinion, if you're looking for another potentiator to try. For a while, I was mixing Soma, 7-OH, and kratom leaf and it felt far better than oxycodone or hydromorphone ever did. Cimetidine is a much more subtle thing, but it's OTC in the US.

 

[Allylbenzene]

This is purely anecdotal but taking curcumin along with kratom seems to prolong the effects every time I've done it, not sure about making them any stronger though

 

[Mycophile]

Have you tried potentiating your kratom so you need less? Pre-dosed (or daily) agmatine would make it a more sustainable habit (aka easier to moderate) and reduce your tolerances.
Out of the OTC potentiators list from my previous post the best are probably:

- Myrhh (oil or CO2 extract, in capsules ofc)
- Agmatine
- Curcumin (pure extract available)
- Theanine
- Eugenol (opioid, glutamate antagonist) - aka clove oil
- Terpenes that interact with opioid / adenosine / serotonin 5-HT1A / cannabinoid receptors (eg linalool, myrcene, limonene)
- CBG (potent alpha-2 adrenergic agonist)

Theacrine and Hordenine are stimulants which isn't necessarily what kratom users are looking for.

I've tried a whole bunch, though most either don't seem to work or are inconsistent. However, I've only taken two from this list which are Agmatine and Curcumin I've neer heard the others mention, so I'd like to give those a shot.

 

[Mycophile]

Think of Mit vs. 7-OH as Alcohol vs. Benzos. Benzos can hit you in a VERY similar way to alcohol, but without the hangovers, nausea, all of these side effects that make alcohol self-limiting for many people. 20mg of 7-OH feels like being able to take 50-75g of plain leaf with no nausea or wobbliness, but with the opioid effects and nothing else. My favorite effects from kratom are the ones that wake up my latent HPPD, aka the monoaminergic effects (things on norep, serotonin, etc.). Potentiating straight leaf (or 7-OH) with cimetidine is a worthwhile endeavor in my opinion, if you're looking for another potentiator to try. For a while, I was mixing Soma, 7-OH, and kratom leaf and it felt far better than oxycodone or hydromorphone ever did. Cimetidine is a much more subtle thing, but it's OTC in the US.

Does Cimetidine put you to sleep (like Benadryl) or does it not make you tired? So are you saying that you prefer regular extracts and plain leaf to 7-OH?

And do you think that the 7-OH and hydroxymitraginine products are more addictive that regular extracts like OPMS black? (I'm already assuming its more dependence forming that plain leaf).

Do you think it's a bad idea for me to try it out? Cause from some of what I've read it seems like a really bad idea like it'll just make other Kratom not work and then I'll get really bad WD and have a really hard time getting through it.

Cause I'm very curious when I see this stuff at my local headshop, but I'm already obsessed as it is with regular Kratom and extracts. I don't want to put myself in a worse situation.

 

[Esperighanto]

Does Cimetidine put you to sleep (like Benadryl) or does it not make you tired? So are you saying that you prefer regular extracts and plain leaf to 7-OH?

And do you think that the 7-OH and hydroxymitraginine products are more addictive that regular extracts like OPMS black? (I'm already assuming its more dependence forming that plain leaf).

Do you think it's a bad idea for me to try it out? Cause from some of what I've read it seems like a really bad idea like it'll just make other Kratom not work and then I'll get really bad WD and have a really hard time getting through it.

Cause I'm very curious when I see this stuff at my local headshop, but I'm already obsessed as it is with regular Kratom and extracts. I don't want to put myself in a worse situation.

If you already struggle with addictivity, don't push it. I'm not a great person to comment on this as I don't really seem to ever feel withdrawals, addictivity, etc., I assume it relates to brain damage I sustained years back.

I prefer full spectrum extracts especially alongside plain leaf, I find OPMS blacks more addictive than 7-OH personally but some disagree. To me, the vaguely dissociative quality of something like an OPMS black feels way better than the oxycodone-ish feeling of 7-oh.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I just laughed my ass off, this combination of words is something I never even pondered. You in Galway Ireland? Three of my grandparents are from county Cork but my mother's father's Romani and I'm always worried to be caught in Eastern Europe because of it hahaha.

oh shit our family may or may not hail from county cork originally too. (there I didn't dox myself )

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

oh shit our family may or may not hail from county cork originally too. (there I didn't dox myself )

Ireland’s awesome I went there years ago with my cousin who ran in the Dublin marathon … I found it such a beautiful, cool place