Most pleasurable & euphoric Benzodiazepine ?

[4DQSAR]

No, it was the third one - as the TITLE made clear.

What it obviously doesn't deal with is the outcomes of non-fatal overdoses. We don't know how many required hospitalization, how many needed institutionalization. In short, that study by design is always going to under-report. In fact, it even excludes cases where theraputic doses of NITRObenzodiazepines were found to be the only drug in the body.

But the fact that 90% of the fatal benzodiazepine overdoses were due to NITRObenzodiazepines.

THAT is the important bit.

Why elderly? Well, we don't know but what we DO know from UK data is that if a person over 50 years old is prescribed a NITRObenzodiazepine and it apparently works, it's judged safer to keep on prescribing than to attempt detoxification. So that's a rational basis to think Swedish doctors were doing much the same, I would suggest.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

ahh the smoking gun was in the third one -- my apologies! On the other hand if ya wanna be snappy I clearly stated the ld 50 was in rats but had no problem re-iterating. Scientific journals not my strong point (again)

"Flunitrazepam was the mostcommon drug followed by nitrazepam. These twodrugs made up 90% of the single benzodiazepinecases. A benzodiazepine was combined with one orseveral drugs, most often psychotropics and analgesics. Multiple drugs were recorded in 61 of the 216 drug poisoning suicides involving benzodiazepines. "

If I understand that correctly it would mean the majority of suicides involving benzos were just benzos? If that is the case they need to restate that LD50 (of course I understand why that won't be done with humans but that ish is a bit misleading mathematically)

 

[4DQSAR]

THAT is the weird one. As I said, flunitrazepam is supposed to be five times more potent than nitrazepam (hence 1mg FN -= 5mg N) BUT the toxicity of flunitrazepam seems to be based on it's activity - I don't know why that is. I don't think anyone does.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Damn that is wild and a misconception that should be put to sleep. I probably would a went a little easier knowing that 15 yrs ago or w/e --- ok suicide through nitrobenzos is a possibility. Interesting.

Thank you for taking the time to let me figure that ish out - sorry for the frustrating level of obtuseness -- it was not intentional!

 

[4DQSAR]

Damn that is wild and a misconception that should be put to sleep. I probably would a went a little easier knowing that 15 yrs ago or w/e --- ok suicide through nitrobenzos is a possibility. Interesting.

Thank you for taking the time to let me figure that ish out - sorry for the frustrating level of obtuseness -- it was not intentional!

Your body, your choice mate - I just want you to make INFORMED choices.

BTW I hope you also noted that mixing opioids and benzos while not as common, had some... less than optimal outcomes. So look after yourself. I don't want to read your name in the BL Shrine.

 

[shreddedlettuce]

 

[Dextro .45]

Pharmacologically, Alprazolam (Xanax) would be the most pleasurable due to rapid onset of Xanax 2mg bar and it possesses antidepressant effects due to Triazolo ring, Like Etizolam etc

Alprazolam was found to significantly increase dopamine in the brains reward centre, in addition the potent anxiolytic properties due to GABA-A PAM

Oxycodone is hand down most euphoric pleasurable opioid on earth. Period. Slightly above Diamorphine & Dilaudid which and right behind, Methadone at the end….but insanely valuable,

Methylphenidate (Ritlain) is most euphoric dopaminergic stimulant I’ve ver had, gave me same powerful euphoric bliss, content, safe & secure, confident and outgoing, social talkative


The Ultimate Euphoric cocktail an hour before large pool party or cottage day

Oxycodone (Eukadol) 20-80mg IR
Alprazolam (Xanax) 2mg
Ritalin (Methylphenidate) 20mg (40-70mg even)
Lyrica (Pregabalin) 300mg powder emptied in glass with other crushed tablets

Ethanol - Gin 2.oz cocktails 3-5 drinks over 4-5h or so

Ritalin & Oxycodone only drugs to enduce real euphoria in me……the warmest blanket of happiness, content, soul is shinning like the sun inside your CNS, it was the greatest treat ever, until tolerance sets in

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

^Aye. No opioids and benzos are not a good combination at all --- add some alcohol you have the death trinity. GBL is the one that has scared me in the past (that and corner boy grey death sold as heroin -- those couple yrs were a learning curve)

All of those suicides by benzos -- someone needs to do a case study of a single benzodiazepine overdose and get us some #'s!
The lack of one (or properly informing people) has led to the widespread belief 'you cannot overdose on benzos' and APPARENTLY that is a problem (Maybe this is just a US misconception as they don't give flunitrazepam or nitrazepam but as you mentioned any nitro Benz COULD do it -- I am guessing it is an accessibility issue -- good luck saving up a gram of benzos legit through a doctor (and it may take less than that.)

Shoot my anectdotal experience I know of about 4 ppl that tried to off themselves with benzos -- one person took a full bottle of 90 kpins (I don't know what the girls tolerance was -- but knowing her I would bet she had a drink or an opi that day). The other 3 I am unsure on #'s (kind of inpolite to ask haha).

Dextro - Pretty sure midazolam is widely considered the fastest acting benzo. Triazolam is pretty damn fast too. I would guess being named Triazolam it has I triazo ring?

I appreciate the effort at objectivity through science to measure euphoria - truly it is an idea that should be focused on.

In a double blind IV coke users could not tell the difference between IV Ritalin and IV cocaine. Oxycodone is good but oxymorphone is better? Long as we are talking pure chemical not TimeRx BS...

I am a contradictory fucker aren't I? There are no wrong answers to this question -- pursuing the measurement of euphoria through science sounds like a worth while goal 100% though. Speaking to that note 4dsar-- if I ever can get my hands on a 1.5 benzo I will be sure to mix it with a 1.4 benzo. Cobazolam is the most common hey. (Rhetorical I can go a pack back and check lol)

 

[4DQSAR]

Pharmacologically, Alprazolam (Xanax) would be the most pleasurable due to rapid onset of Xanax 2mg bar and it possesses antidepressant effects due to Triazolo ring, Like Etizolam etc

It is the case that alprazolam has a slightly unusual profile but be aware that other prescribable 1,4-benzodiazepines also have unusual profiles. The reason nitrobenzodiazepines (nitrazepam, flunitrazepam and expecially nimetazepam) are also robust serotonin releasers. In nations where nimetazapam and alprazolam are both prescribable, the former is preferred by the vast majority of users)..

THen you have the more selective 1,4-benzodiazepines which exist and are understood but are not prescribable. Pyrazolam may be a mild anxiolytic with reduced tolerance to it's effects, pynazolam is almost purely a (very) potent serotonin releaser and pyeyzolam is a selective a5b1y2 ligand making it's effects almost identical to those of alcohol.

Then you have the 1,5 benzodiazepines that bind to a different subset of the GABA receptors. Only a few are prescribable but they have the unusual deature of not being cross-tolerant with 1,4-benzodiazepines.

Mixing a 1,4-benzodiazepine with a 1,5-benzodiazepine e.g. diazepam with clobazam has significantly more potent effects than either one in isolation.

Alprazolam is a reasonablly good option but it's not unique in having quite a rapid onset of actions and it's contested that it has antidepressent effects. Certainly many nations outside the US do not use alprazolam to treat depresssion. The anxiety associate with depression, maybe, but for the depression, no.

 

[Dextro .45]

Interesting. Great info.

I personally would take Diazepam 30mg & Alprazolam 1.0 ……with an opioid & Ritalin

The medical journals I’ve read and other sources stated Alprazolam causes a moderate to significant increase in dopamine as compared to other benzodiazepines…..in addition it’s apparently the most highly abused Benzo in the US

Etizolam I’ve had 3-5k mg over 10-15 years and found very euphoric with mood-boosting & antidepressant effects. Deschloroetizolam is even better believe it or not. 3 grams over 10 years or so as needed …..but this batch had to be nearly pharmaceutical grade……whom ever synthesized that batch of Deschloroetizolam was a professional

Everyone said they took 10mg and its garbage , the batch I had after was different and was lack lustrer

Deschloroetizolam that I had 10+ years ago from that Canadian vendor obtained 100% pure pharmaceutical grade product somehow…..I’d buy 20 grams if I could now …. 2mg you’d feel slightly. 4mg was my starting dose. 6mg is identical to Etizolam 1mg

Both Etizolam and especially Deschloroetizolam are Tier 1 anxiolytics with highly selective at a2/a3 subunit less at a1 ……better than Xanax to me

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

^ Facts. etizolam better than alprazolam. Funny though back when it was still legal ppl would call em "Fake benzos" or "football knocks" which worked for me cuz they didn't want em from me.

4dqsar, dextro, anyone else -- If you were trying to measure 'euphoria' in benzos objectively (on paper) how would you do so? Surely starting with a categorization like Triazo Nitro etc -- than once you are looking at that category what would you look for?

Ex Opiates/oids euphoria is generally measured by the mu1 receptor (pretty sure) but I have heard you theorizing that the mu2 may be of more consequence. Certainly not the kappa or w/e partial agonists are strong on.

Probably a mix of a couple factors (or a myriad) but how would you go about hypothesizing euphoria per dose in a benzo?

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Hmm... not related to the current posts but OT since I feel very much like rambling:

There's nothing like euphoria with any benzo for me. I agree with some much older comments that you need to have anxiety as a condition to feel anything euphoria-like on them imo.
Nonetheless they are relaxing and good to sleep - but that's only working for a while. I find it quite scary how quickly they can be habit-forming even without any euphoria - I tried several and its the same with all of them. BTW Xanax ranks lowest for me of those I ever tried (bromazepam - much better imo-, clonazepam, Temazepam), the rest is just a question of how long they last. There's a huge mismatch of what I get from them vs. how quickly tolerance and dependence set in. Comfort drugs really. (same goes for Zolpidem)

 

[shreddedlettuce]

you need to have anxiety as a condition to feel anything euphoria-like on them imo.

100%

If you don't have the underlying "event" that needs these types of drugs (benzos) - then the quote above is a great summary of why they work.

Well said @Mushoku_Sensei

So from my experience, when taken absolutely only when required, could be why they give "euphoric" sensations so well, an example would be why they have this effect on a stimulant comedown almost every time.

If you are not on stimulants, work yourself into a state of panic and then take a low dose of any benzo ( DISCLAIMER - don't try this at home - it is only an example) .... compare it to trying it when not in that state, it's like two different drugs.

Also the more one takes any of them, when not absolutely necessary, makes the chances of them working like they should, when actually needed, extremely unreliable.

Also this is IME.

 

[4DQSAR]

I've often wondered if anyone is extracting and retailing kavain - the principle psychoactive of kava kava. Yes, several other compound have been shown to be active in their own right but as a proportion of kava extract, they do not occur at does that would be active (as best as I can understand it).

Like 7-OH mitragynine, vendors could pretend it's an 'extract' whereas we all know that mitragynine is an item of commerce and 'cooks' are performing the oxidation in pyrexio ;-)

 

[Psychonauticunt]

Flunitrazepam
Midazolam (IV)
Triazolam
Etizolam

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Well... if your really having trouble sleeping go with Chloral Hydrate that will knock anyone out.

Good i sent you my mail-box adress . Or do you have a DIY ?
As my dr. rather murder me then prescribe something helpful.
He loved Quetiapine, as sleep inducer, dis-advised by his fellow dr s !
[my opinion it don t induce sleep, but the side effect s, BIG]

He must have assumed i d be dead after 2 years without sleep, dumb-ass.
Even some Weed s get immune to GlyPhosate. I am no Weed.
Way worse, more like Cannabis or Papaver Somniferrum.

The graveyard flower s.

 

[CavernsoftheMind]

The only two benzos that gave me actual euphoria (without me being anxious before taking them) were Clonazolam & Brotizolam.

 

[4DQSAR]

The only two benzos that gave me actual euphoria (without me being anxious before taking them) were Clonazolam & Brotizolam.

Yeah - it was surprising what a wide range of effects benzodiazepines are able to produce. Pyeyzolam is an alcohol mimic at 20-30mg, pynazolam is what I can best describe as a serotonin releaser. It had fast-acting and potent antidepressant activity at 5-10mg.

The problem with the alcohol mimic is that it emulate 'drunk' brilliantly, but couldn't emulate 'two bottles of beer'. We figured out why by making somer novel 1,5-benzodiazepines. It seems that depending on dose, ethanol becomes less and less selective in whigh GABA receptor subtypes it acts on.

 

[4DQSAR]

BTW in sufficient quantities, alcohol WILL halt the EWS of benzodiazepines. But 'sufficient quantity' meant two bottles of gin per day for over a year.

I was lucky, this happned when Heminevrin was still being sold on the internet. I also had prescribed chlorodiazepoxide. So I undertook the twelve day protocol and was able to flush the spare medicines after those twelve days. Being sober after over a year spent drunk 24/7 reminded me of jus how 'loud' real life is. I had never consumed the alcohol to feel good - it was to 'insulate' myself from the world. I survived. But I doubt I would survive a second time.

At 33 my body could cope, decades later I feel certain it would not.

 

[tryptamight]

100%

If you don't have the underlying "event" that needs these types of drugs (benzos) - then the quote above is a great summary of why they work.

Well said @Mushoku_Sensei

So from my experience, when taken absolutely only when required, could be why they give "euphoric" sensations so well, an example would be why they have this effect on a stimulant comedown almost every time.

If you are not on stimulants, work yourself into a state of panic and then take a low dose of any benzo ( DISCLAIMER - don't try this at home - it is only an example) .... compare it to trying it when not in that state, it's like two different drugs.

Also the more one takes any of them, when not absolutely necessary, makes the chances of them working like they should, when actually needed, extremely unreliable.

Also this is IME.

Idk, I have felt real euphoria off of one benzo exclusively and that was clonazolam, everything else had to be combed to provide real euphoria. And this is as someone without anxiety. The seratonin release for clam was noticeable